i think it will solve and we're going to see something remarkable going to senior economy take on the g d p and ours about to explode higher and that all ratings about to go fully. bitcoin hyper point is ation. and that's going to filter up to some bigger countries is going to go global and we're all living ah ah hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle in the wake of biden's, humiliating exit from afghanistan. there are those in the u gen creek class, again, revisiting the possibility of a pan e. u. army. what's happening to all that nato unity we are constantly reminded out

also why does washington stay in syria after being defeated? and then the discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess to send me well we in budapest, he's a pod cast for the gavel, which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow were joined by to meet 3, bob, which is a political analyst and editor at you know, it's me internet media project, right? gentlemen, cross talk rules and effects. that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. okay, it's going to georgia in budapest. i guess none of us are surprised george that we here talk of a e, you army in the wake of the exit humiliating exit from anason. but this isn't something that we've, we've heard for the 1st time. this has been popping up left and right. and there are though,

if it's make the claim which i think has creed and said this is this brussels looking for another power grab at the expense of others, particularly the united states. but then you have the atlantic system, it will have even more power to push back. i mean, i'm not really sure if it's a meaningful conversation, but we're talking about it because it is a conversation that is being loaded. go ahead, george, to the right. the, the, i mean, this just made so was launched every few years. the europeans of express the neuroses about all the americans are going to abandon us. they've been, they've lost interest in us. so we have the, the famous cliche about the, the americans are going to be ready to sacrifice new york and washington. 2 barn and do filled or any was o americans or vietnam and they've lost interest in us. european americans are in central america. they've lost interest in us. oh, americans are interested in the pacific rim than just so then us. so that's finally, you know, i, teenagers,

they figured out what they can do more effectively rather than just wine to the americans. and that is to threaten americans with setting up their own european army, their own security and defense identity. and then americans to venture. this is something they will not tolerate. and every, this is back in the ages or later, you know, it will madeline albright william cohen's with to now getting sure. isn't that any talk of european identity? europe must be finally embedded within major. and i think this is exactly the same thing, this proposal that of setting up some kind of a 5000 strong rapid reaction. both is a joke. won't even take the seriously of any kind of a military base ship. but as you say, you have caught the attention of washington and immediately that stamping their feet as is stolen, the nato secretary general, who gave an interview to the new york time saying no, absolutely no,

no question of any kind of separation from they will deem it not only unlikely that they would do it, because i mean, other than securing the european union borders and i'm thinking about immigration, i could see back something like that to me. but i was contended. and the reason why nato members don't really like the pay off way from wanted them to is that they don't really see a major security threat of your the and union certainly not rush it because that brush up was a bet they would be any money on defense, but they don't want to be, i mean, again the, the entire premise of nato is in question with, we've talked about endlessly on this program. and this rapid deployment force is equally idiotic because, well then what i mean, we run it and we're going to call this not to me. they haven't thought about it because they need the slippery slope, the moral hazard of nato. his make his power a paralyzed the european you mean when it comes to thinking about its own defense

steamer? well, i mean, i agree with you that the thing is, your did, but it doesn't mean that it is not. that is not evil. i mean, if you look at people who push for the european army, these are the greatest russo folds in europe. i mean, you very stuff. just cage, russia. he's pathological about, you know, you have been saying last year that you can attack europe while europe hasn't got enough resources to defend it. yes, it's military budget. i knew the european nato allies. their budget combined is 4 times bigger than rush us. but still, americans have so much more jobs, so much more weapons that i'm quoting here. we have to have the same amount of troops to counterbalance russia. so this idea is evil. and let me remind you that the last 2 examples, when we had the european army,

this was during the put on a war which was catastrophic and hitler's. he was a back against the soviet union against the civilized world. at large people we get the hitler had many allies, you have hungary, equally greenland, behind him. and he basically used a pan european army to attack the soviet union. that is the truth which a lot of people forget. so in my view, we'll look at the recent history or the so called american was, there were also european was, europeans went together with americans to gain stuff. they went together with them . but i don't think it was because they thought it was necessarily a just cause it just that it gave meaning to yes, we actually are a military, nothing is that actually they put it put flesh on bone. and i think that george, i mean, you know, i've talked about this quite a few times here. i mean, it is not to be, you know, they want to make

a commitment to the trend. atlantic security environment. he says, you know, this is a way to prove that, you know, the alliance has some kind of meaning. ok. i don't think it had any real security value. i mean, i don't know why the european countries were involved in afghanistan for example. ok. i mean, again, it was, i think, more of a justification than a meaningful contribution. go ahead. george. how's that is strong, because it was all about trying to justify nato's existence. i mean, this has been an ongoing team within mason member space what, what are we gonna do now out of the war. so back is gone. so in the ninety's we have the whole. busy humanitarian intervention, you this while the brigades then, oh, wonder of wonders, the $911.00 attacks we have to then the both the americans. and again, this will be though that the, the contribution of the europeans was absolutely minimal. that is just simply

officially for the united states to say, oh, here we are, this is a joint venture. we're, we're all in together. you know, we, we've been both article 5 and this is a great team effort. it was never really a series european dimension to it. and then your bills really have very little interest in creating some kind of a patio or a vietnam. it's what does that mean? and you will be an army nightmare for all europeans will be germany. and he goes to create an army that will have a strong. busy german component, even german leadership element to it. i think, you know, you were being really wants to. that's why it's always a matter of rhetoric. they get the americans attention. i mean, even cross uniform for trying. bye bye bye. the idea of a great, that's the way you are being entered and then we can pack our bags, get on with our stuff. but as soon as trump old talk about a bit and then to be even sentenced, brought up the subject. hey, we said hi,

in the 2nd world war you on, craig, is so, and so, and that was trump. so i just think this is a way to get to get off the ground. but again, you know, the opponents and proponents of bits will point out this is much more of a bureaucratic process. i mean, it's, again, was i started out brussels accumulating powers, organizations, budgets. and even though it would be quite meaningless, i mean, again, a rapid deployment where i, i didn't care how many will be in there. how many somebody albanians, i mean, i really can't really bad. the weather and what would be the, what would be the they the issue. i mean, other like a, but i said, you know, make illegal immigration. i mean, how are all these? are they going to pick? you know, let's go back into how can i said nobody and data really wants to go back and they're angry and they were told that the beds were reading,

but i don't think anybody really wants to go there. and if the, if the english, the british are so that was your, by go at it. well, i mean, i agree with george that there is no value would be an army. and if indeed the you had be and you don't concern with europe security, it should not create section on it. but it doesn't mean that the bad things are going to happen. i mean that the responsibility of the european union is boundless, said that we're going to go to a dentist on the 2nd time, but least doing is georgians. logic of historians, they all went to do the 2 times the 1st time with the soviet by the 2nd time with the american army. that's a fact. so there is a precedent. and if you look at the lead us, you know, merkel who i think with bites america. now, if you look at her speech in 2003, they bought, she was not the counselor she,

the support of the idea of germany participate. and in the there are, but she used a different rhetoric, like we have to stand together when tonight the states. but if you're still together with the united states in march, 2003, that means you want to invade iraq. so you, she had been in charge, germans will kind of been in iraq to just like they were and against them. so, and the rhetoric, i mean, the table picture that i see now is that the united states is going to be the same with china. and europe is going to target crusher. and i'm, i'm going to call you, i'm going to give you hundreds of calls about that, like the german defense minister, undergrad grove. current bo was visiting the american military base in guam, a little more than a year ago. i think she said the following in europe, our enemy is russia sheer. your enemy is china. so i mean, bureaucratically, you're right, it's going to be a paradise that's both the open on the rights on our website. this allows the

europeans to double their ministry, your personal. because if you have, if you were to be in force, that means in more than terms, you might have 100000 or maybe 3 bureaucrats gauging you drops and brussels is going to do it. you know, i understand that perspective here, george, i don't see the buyer in the belly of the, the different policies of the european union. i mean, you can have some crazy judgment and dame if you want a car, the baltic, they will always be up and about something here. but at the end of the day, or they want to get to spend billions and billions a euro's because they've been targeted. rushed, i don't, i just don't see it. i just don't see. i don't even know. i mean, it's a possibility of us being to suggest that there might be a division of labor within nato. they say, okay, well, you americans, you know, you focus on the south trying to see the shiny, see, and we will focus on russia. but the point is the european have lost any of to

fight was, i mean, they haven't walk any was for many, many decades. i mean, we're seeing how poorly they faulty and i've dentist seen a bully they bought in iraq. it's going to be a very hard to see how they gonna both start shaping themselves up without the american leadership. i mean, i think much more likely is we're going to get some revival of those strange interventions in the 1970 is which people have forgotten how a french would fly into prop up to in year. and then they, they went into chad. all these strange nonsensical. busy friendship to vanish like you can't do that with the right back or a gentleman, we're going to go to breaking up. continue our discussion and some really say with the ah,

driven by agreement shaped by person. those in me. i think we dare to ask in transparency for the powerful receive for the last bit cares about privacy or people care about is power. antonia and a son just become a symbol of the battles of brevity, information is power. that's what's going on. and a huge struggle with government and patients who want to keep information

secret and other things democratic rights should be pushed forward and people have a writing everything to do, watch how it sounds, helped to shift the conversation around transparency. see what that battle has done to him. i feel like julian's life might be coming to an end. we are in a conflict situation with the largest and most powerful employer in such a situation. it's remarkable. survive the welcome to prom statler. all things are considered. i'm futile. a bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real names. the

rachel is to change gears here. you know george again in the afterglow of the exit from afghanistan, humiliating one. there's a lot of talk about a new war on terror the, the necessity of it there is, are creating a threat inflation. when you brought my mind, somebody find interesting that about very few people really want to consider is, was it really ever a war on terror? because it seems that in retrospect, over the last 20 years, it's quite selective. because as i said, he learned production evacuation. my dentist and then why stay in syria? georgia. oh, that's exactly the issue because to the extent that ever was a war on sarah that was over and done with by december 2001. when basically the americans thrown out the taliban pushed out, arrested all these people taking them to one's dynamo, bay, one of any of that has to do with the march 2003 invasion of iraq because i was

saying he was no friend of ok. the, despite all the nonsensical propaganda from new yorker and cheney, and he was no friend of ok the and then we had the was on libya and syria. these governments were very much opposed to the jihad is. i mean they are, you know, they arrested jihad, is that no time at all for them yet in and then so we really what we've had is actually a war on the very government that actually fought against is on the head of war against these nationalists, secular, is government all wrapped up in this phony baloney? talk about the global war on terror and this goes on to this day. and if you are, why exactly are americans in the area? oh, well, they were fighting isis. well, when you know, we've seen them

a very interesting article this week by air on last day, he points up. there's been no fighting against sizes. no, no, no one the military mission up against ice is the boat. so this is now become a rationale for continued america interventions, military presidents around the world. they are fighting isis when in fact, they're doing nothing of the sold. will it? and of course, if we look at it live, i mean, i, me, the way it's being in love is being approached and, and in theory is that you have, you come down, you distill, went down to, there's good isis been bad. i think there's good al qaeda and bad, all kind of, i mean they did the, the think tank is stand, they hide themselves up into, into wrestles here because it doesn't make any coherent sense. and that's why george's premise, if there ever was a war on, on terror is absolutely correct because it's very selective. and you use ice and all kinds when you need them. i just went down to the next 2 years of war. go ahead

even. well, i'm sure some people are going to use us. i would be in conspiracy theories like how come just say don't either stay didn't find the ice. yes. well, i'm going to use here. all you the facts that kind of mentioned as fact by western progress. ok, out of 19 her wrist, who can eat the 911? a terrible, terrible respect. she p in worse from saudi arabia. ok, one guy was from egypt. 2 others from yemen and denisia. i miss they know that they've sold your ada. does all the facts to denise, you know that, that egypt ain't that back to iraq. and again, you don't know these guys was from iraq against the over on leave you. so where is the logic here? and i understand why people are formed of conspiracy theories because the western digital brush, s and aggressive country is just bond

a big while your brain conspiracy theory, right? so people have no trust visual information, and that's why sometimes they think of theories of their own. i'm going to stick to fact here. i think george is absolutely correct when he says that these was lot a war against terror when, when bush invaded stand iraq. i think that even in the states, no, you can read them in the article by daniel and coffee. the war on terror was a war of religion in the, in the more than sense, you know, i think the people in washington have the people in brussels, by the way, genuinely believed that they got a force on their guns. they are new. i your when geometry liberal, i go. i mean, another nice headline from district a that did gender studies loser game has been for us they days because there is no one for gender in posh to or in or door or a diary though,

and we just spoke. and in fact, there is no charge board in russian, you know, but these people kept pushing. they, they are out to more than alter liberal ideas in the society just over. absolutely not prayer for them and that inspire paris because there are no states. so the you invaded us why the of the yugoslav did not commit a single period. they tried to defend themselves, speak into the press, you know, radiant books. they were silenced, you know, this was not taken into cold. so i think but of the reasons why there are so many, there it is because you cannot have your voice cards in the west, the media if you're ready and i was trying to do it. but george, you, if it gets found to be in the war on terror is actually a pretty good griff. right? i mean, you would get it by a threat and then you prepare for it. you, you annihilated attack it and then you get blow back and then you start all over

again. i mean, it's pretty convenient, isn't it? i mean, and then again, it's very, very selective. you know, we don't, we don't like that, look these, your hobbies are harmless. actually, there are helpful, these are against the but i mean it's all about labels, isn't it? because is we have all pointed out here. maybe you're not saying an exact word. there's no code here and the theory of the war. busy on terror doesn't exist. oh no, that's right. by now everyone's already found the talking point. yes. yes. yes. the americans is the initial supporters of the g holidays in afghanistan in the 1900 ages. i was already ok. everyone's up on the page, but it went on, it didn't just and magically 1989 america continues to support. jihad is symbolically a richard holbrooke. in his account of the war, in bosnia boasted boasted that the united states were shipping in jihad is into

balls and said, all the same as well. you know, when we were backing style and again, hitler in world war 2. so that's been there. i didn't know that they will. so supposing that jihad is in a church there, and so, and what are they doing? and they are absolutely determined to prevent before when it seemed in 2018 that the big government is going to launch an offensive against the americans on the trump threatened to bomb them. ask us if they did that. so they be doing this all the time. playing this little game of banking, the good g is which we can unleash against the government that we don't like as opposed to the bad you how this will do bad things to us. so, i mean, the american cold by surprise, you know, been lot when he was a man and he goes the launches. this is the grateful de la, one of these pathetic things in watching american media, particularly on the 20th anniversary of the events of 911, is that, you know, they,

there is, there's a general agreement that the war in afghanistan had to come to an end. i think that's across the board. ok. of course there are neo com. wanted to see go on forever. but imbedded in the, the commentary in the narrative about $911.00 is that it could happen again. and you know, if there are still groups in afghanistan resisting the taliban, and that's the narrative we heard. we heard that 20 years ago. maybe we need to help them me they, they said there's temptation of a repetition of constantly. and of course, there are be plenty of people with vested interest saying yeah, that might be a good idea, you know? because you know, we can start from scratch, start all over again. okay. because the taliban are back. ok. and again, there's no coherent understanding and how to fight the is this co so called war on terror? because know when a nice the powers to be never taken on

a one off basis. so you have to sell this entire bill of goods to the public for it to succeed. go ahead. well, i have my own collection, all absurd statements from noble american media about american presidents like trump said, oh, we killed that guy. oh, but don't you? where did you kill him? he lately, which is supposed to be the strong hold of democrats resisting off of terrible gun that actually often would have killed him before the same story with reagan or weird the maya, the car, rachel, they're going to people who resisted more than soviet, i mean with just some, you know, sub machine guns. well, it is right now we have the same situation. africans with machine gun to resistance and even more and more than on, you know, the american, the euro, being honest, guessed, and well, i think it was not the american people or the european nations, the more the war guys. but it was the ideology which,

which just didn't take into account any peculiarity just of all people. even though i mean look at nature in nature. we have all the species existing in all the fact that mammals are more than the rep that was done in the trap. i was have to die out in the same way in human society. you can nor force varied years which are now except neither states and western europe and which are very, very dubious. you cannot force them on a society in south. i got, i got bad news for here, demon the george, you're right. a did work in denison. now the power to be, are trying and on half the american public. ok. so you know, they succeed, they failed enough. ganeth them. let's try and now in the west, i mean, you're seeing this particularly in the united states of the unwashed, the rubes. ok. this i didn't, you're right, the i the office, he died in the but it hasn't died in the west. george. so that is bad things like

right. and that is what is happening now in the united states. on the biden of the war has been brought home. the water has been brought against the great and wash the white supremacists, the tv, and that's the latest names changed, but they mean the same people. the horrible in here, raise the organs and i thought, you know, the waging war against a renegade european countries, i mean, it's done good or bad, hungary, poland. so it's, it's the liberal etiology. that is how targeted against the boss, massive humanity. it just doesn't accept it. and this is indeed why the, the global discs, what causes the global war in jerry, which is just simply got this liberal ideology is still prevalent and you know, 911 and all the. so what i've done is it's still managed to society. it's

a minister society and one thing is for sure gentlemen, it needs an enemy without an enemy. it doesn't exist. no, may have no reason to exist as all the time. we have one thing, my guess in budapest, and here in my want to think our viewers for watching us here are the phoenix from remember? ah ah, me the civic leg around the world expedition by 1000 ocean mile round the clock is given the dead calm. miss wilson in every country close by like the

crew, gavin's food and water and food to chat. those also moved on later on, the little thing is got everybody locked down or almost no food and no one really. i'm not sure somebody either stuck in the cove. it, you're living like the female of own, but in the 21st century i, the i think it will solve it or we're going to say something remarkable going to senior economy. take on the g d p and also about to explode higher. and that all ratings about to go fully good going, hyper pointed ation and that's going to filter up to some bigger countries is going to go global. and we're all living to something that is absolutely remarkable.

the the in the us secretary of state and to need blinking comes under intense scrutiny from congress over biden's disastrous withdrawal from afghanistan. i can summarize this in one word, the trail worse, foreign affairs disaster in american history. american families have never been a greater risk of attack at home than today are to looks at the lasting impact of the us led war on terror. we hear from afghans forced to leave their homes following to decades, failed american policy trends.