ah, welcome to the alexandra sure where we turn once again to the end of the war in afghanistan. this time we interviewed 2 women whose lives had been inescapably touched by the long conflict. masika his son. he was an african refugee who finally came to the u. k, during the 1st period of taliban government, doctor bon ripley was a tough journalist who for a short period some 20 years ago, became the most famous women on the planet i. she was captured by the taliban on the eve of the need to invasion, experience this of giving them different perspectives of a son in war and peace. both join alex in a moment, but 1st few tweets emails and messages in response to our program last week on the after shock of loan call that he faith said highly informative interview. the case has been made to wait a mask on keep a safe distance from all. we must above all take care this cool that can destroy

your life. thanks alex and take care. dr. watson says, thank you for this great program, alex and says, nina, i 5 long covert knife for 18 months and have long term nerve damage. but brain fog has pretty much cleared up. so i feel qualified to see, i think, to minutes analysis at the end of the program with support on site to do and, and we wish you well, let me talk says if it just a post vital syndrome identical to amy while amy, maybe to concede asleep and properly researched over people with long could be left for 30 years towards a psychological or even sent for damage. graduates an exercise therapy. suddenly william nickle says sign for that. that is definitely long covert or continuous health problems. even after the box, you can truthfully say, since march 2021, my legs more, but someone elses some investigation to, to be into a good few health centers in scotland. anyway. thank you for another informative

show. well, thank you william. i wish you well. now moscow has sonny, it's ask on board, but her family fled there country. she became a very, a typical and i spoke in miss england. i'm going to run campaigns for mental health strategies, particularly for muslim women. i'm also welcome to the family show. thank you. tell us how you and your family came to the u. k. my family and i were living between 2nd son and i've got a son because my parents studied in sex, done so we would go back and forth during some a holiday. so throughout my childhood i was spending some money in cobbled, and one year we came back to was records done to for like a short break. so we'd literally pack a vacation bag, left everything and then the war broke out and we never went back. and i remember for years my mother crying over her wedding pictures because those are the only

memory she had left from her wedding day. so we left everything that we've ever known and just took the clothes on our back and just never went back home. it was the waiting game because we thought that this is a matter of a year or 2 and we will go back home at some point. but as we said in the sun and we watched the situation deteriorate more and more, the only option was to try and get the rest of the family members out. so i remember my grandmother and grandfather came separately to very hard journeys. she was such as an air force for hours to people smugglers and whichever way we could, we got them out. so it was very, it's a very vivid memory. that's what i remember was that all was the assumption that one day the family would return home. i did your den to fire as afghanistan yourself and we were thinking about one day we'll be able to go back hastily. i think when you speak to any afghans around the world and you also,

whether from me always introduce i thought that i've gotten fuss and then our host country because then to giles on our country we not was or for that case now. and then he's in a racial born die in war. and because of that we feel extra protective over identity because it's always someone's invading and someone's trying to paint us in a very bad way. so that's why i think from the day that we're born, we get told to don't forget where you from. don't forget where you ruth. say you are afghan, you are. i've got to be honest. i didn't understand that up until recently because i was too young and i thought, why is this being imposed on me so much? yes, i know i'm, i've gotten with my parents and in my community always made sure that i don't forget where i come from. but now, with the recent events and everything that's going on and i've got it that i feel exactly the same. and i will make sure that my children's children know that i was

asked. and that every generation of mine will not forget where they come from. because i feel so protective over my identity now. but as a young refugee, let me stop you, having substantial achievements, it became miss england. tell us about, but thank you. i mean, i started modeling as a very young age, which is very unconventional from someone of my background, but i was very lucky to have the opportunity to do that and also have the support and i really enjoyed what i was doing. and then the pattern came up and it wasn't something that i plan to do. i didn't know, did i dream of being a beauty queen when i was young? but for me it was. if i do this and i'm successful, that's giving me a platform to have to speak on the situation of my home country. you are perhaps an unconventional beauty queen in the sense that you took the opportunity to speak out against the the prime minister of the day. tony blair. yes,

i'm looking back at that may have been a little bit rushed because i was 18 years old at that time. so i was put on the spotlight and i had no media training. i just knew the situation in my home country . and when i got given the opportunity, i thought this is the only time that every food you get from gala san will have the world listen to her. so i'm going to speak from my heart and i'm going to say what i truly feel. and i feel like that was probably the night of my age that i just spoke exactly how i felt. but i don't regret it must have take courage as an 18 year old, the achieving a great achievement. but, and i totally feel to say, i want to say something about the views of the prime minister. make criticism not scarce quite. it's quite a step to take as an 18 year old. yeah, i mean from the day that i was my, when was very political because the timing of the pageant fell 2 months after the

london bombings happened. so it was july and then i won the pageant in september. so the sense of islam of phobia was very, very present at that time. and for the 1st time muslims were getting attack since 911. it then came to the u. k. on so we were constantly, every time i went and did interviews or i can produce to people, they would look at me like i was lying about where i was from because surely people from afghanistan don't look like you don't speak like me because they had this image of what the media painted afghan people to be like, or muslim community to be like just barbarians. and so i felt that they fell on my shoulders to to get rid of that view, a stigma that it was created by the media. so that's why it was just the timing of it, and it was my obligation. i felt like it was my duty to my people to change the narrative of the way the world was painting people, which is again what's happening now. so your concern was love before be arising

from generalizing the acts of some terrorist and saying, well that's the whole religion or a whole range of people. that was your concern. yes. range of people and of course because $911.00 was linked to uh ghana. sad was the why the muslim community, but then in particular, i've got a son because every time i spoke to people and they would ask me, where is your background from? i say i've got a sense like, oh, some of you know like he's not, i've got so yeah that's, that doesn't relate to me. but that's the view that people had of i've got a son. so i felt like i was the, the fight for the gun identity. and i did that then. and at that time there was no social media, things going viral. so now that i'm speaking up, i feel does a lot of my god follows feel that it's very new to them and this is not the 1st time i've done this. so i'm more than happy to 5 micro 95 for what i believe is

right. and then you started your work and mental health looking particularly at the mental health of refugees. taylor tell us that i went through this myself of course. so i think the way i fell into the mental health side is because i look back as everything that i had achieved and also the battles and difficulties that i had to deal with as a migrant. as a recent g, a, someone who didn't speak english or someone who was always the all foreign child at school, the one that didn't have nice close to air until my parents managed to get jobs and earn money. so we could. so i would always go in to school in a 2nd hand clothes with donations for the 1st few months. and then there i was 10 years later representing england as their beauty clean or being a model and being in magazines and flying around the world. so i felt like i had to share my journey inexperience because i understand the battles that people of the afghan. yes. for a face or any other face. you know, if you are determined,

if you keep strong and say truth is who you are and you kind of 2 things and you can get that. and having said that, it's not an easy journey. but because i've done as i'd like to share that knowledge and experience and help others flourish, because i know that we have so much talent. i know that we're just as intellectual, smart, motivated people and women because i feel like i've got women are so oppressed and they're painted as these. i mean, they're not, they're just the humanized. you know, lives are getting lost, left right, and center children and women and girls with what's happening right now. they're just seen as numbers as these blue goes with the brokers. that's all again women i know now in the world. so i just wanted to show the world that know we're, we're also capable, we're just as good as anyone else. thinking about the refugees who you've spoken to help through your work. some idea of the range of activities. at least people are

now in gauge and across the the full extent of life. yeah, i mean the people that i speak with even, and i've got a son during the last 20 years where there was a little bit of peace. there is a gals robotics team casing team like you know, given the opportunities these the gills. robotics team build, ventilators out of call, pause to help with it. and it was actually working and functional and was used in some of the hospitals. this is the level of talent that's out that, but it's just that we're just not seen as people are human, so we don't get those out of paternity. and that's why i was always grateful and appreciative of the opportunity that i received because that could have been me just lucky to be born as a different place and a different time to different parents. so i manage to grasp the opportunities with

both hands. but if all our people had the same opportunities as me, i'm sure that our country would be in a very different stage right now. on the cost of the influx of some thousands of african refugees, many of whom have fled the country in the most distressed circumstances. well, what would your message be to these people coming in and what message would you have to the host community in terms of, of improving the life chances of the, of the people we're welcoming into this country. we need to understand that these people have probably severe gsp. they're all in the message on the response at the moment, so it will take very long time and it will be difficult. it's not easy. i'm hearing some horrific stories, i would use being stuck in airports for hours on end without food and drink so their trauma hasn't even ended. so until they start so it's not going to be easy.

it's not going to be, you know, it's not like they came into an amazing new life. they may not get killed, but there is other ways and mental health that will just deteriorate and will be very difficult for them. but you know, at the end of the day they are the lucky ones that escaped. they, if they should, we should all be grateful that we manage to help some people given the opportunity to have a new life, you know, it will be okay. it does take time and they have the community here to help them as well as other people because i've had an influx of people who are non, i've gotten who wants to help. and so there are people who are very welcoming and hopefully with time and a lot of how a lot of mental health, what they'll be able to start a new life. and i, so the whole country, i say the media pains the re fuji's as this us and always. but these are just people and they just, they're running away from bombs and mines. and they just, they just want to have

a chance to live and to have an opportunity to like, look at me, i was given that opportunity and i've done my fair share for english or for my job, my industry and everything else that i stand for. so these are just people like me and they're giving if you give them the opportunity, they'll also flourish and do their best. i'm also thank you so much for joining them, alex. i'm coming up after the break. i'll continue to discussion on the time i see interview dr. barton ridley join. us say me the seafood that may be read or are initially yellow, maybe be assume that they going to be on the sweet side of things. i received

a rounder soft and soon again the going to be sweeter and ah, working room, or should she popped in? she said, well, i'm getting ready to go shopping for christmas. and we recently there was a group divide to another, shooting another state, part of american life, shattered by violence. the gunman was armed with an a r 1570 automatic rifle. when the issue comes home, it's time to act. when we're filing on this issue, the other side wins by default, lady that lives over there. i was walking one of the dogs, which is why do you wear again? were you scared that the they took it off? i think the people need to take responsibility in their own hands and be prepared if those kind of weapons were less available. we wouldn't have

a lot of shootings and we certainly wouldn't have the number that i welcome back. alex is discussing the end of the war and i've got a son from a women's perspective. he takes up the story with dr. gordon ridley. abominably welcome back to the alex simon show. thank you. 20 years ago, almost to the day. you are just about the most famous woman on the planet because you were captured by the the taliban. what i'm f for you. we are doing and getting captured and 20 years ago. oh wow, intend to get captured. i was sad that she should portrait the sunday or express newspaper. and i gone into afghanistan on an undiscovered mission. it was after the events of 9, the lesson with $3000.00 journalists assembled on the pocket stone on

board a waste into the wall to start. i've always been impatient and i want to get in there ahead of them and find out what life was like. under the ruling taliban. the only thing that went wrong with the plan was that 2 days day and i got cold. so avoid a combination of bravado, determination. the taliban found you too hot to handle and you are of actually the least. what's the perspective at 20 years perspective? look back when you find yourself out in the morning. the thing that really happened to me. yeah, i just think one was i thinking of doing, you know what you say it was a reckless thing to do, although it was happened intend to to get cold. i was terrified as we single day. although having said that, i was also the prisoner from how i spotted my floor them. i threw thing

shopton simply because i was convinced that they were going to kill me. and so i wanted it over and done with this quickly as possible. i didn't want any torture, i want to cut out the middleman. take me straight against the wall and shoot me because this is what happens in an evil, brutal regime. but they didn't. they treat me with kindness and they kept saying to me, why do you have anything like this? you were our guest, we want you to be happy. so you came out of that extraordinary experience with a different one perspective and you came to the conclusion that was trying to revise the waste views on, on was of state building nation building, occupation and where the we're leading when i'm on my lunch night by

this time i've been transferred to prison in the fall ball and it was started and i suddenly found out what it was like to be bombed by person in america. and there's no way to run nowhere to hide. i sort of thought to myself, if i get out of this and going straight into the anti war movement, i did as a matter of fact, i'm not a peacenik. i think, you know, there's a road for the armed forces. but imperial and colonial walls and occupations. no way. i'm terms of the taliban then. i mean as a government they had been ruthless, vindictive, repressive of women's rights. from what you know, do you think they're still light laughter? do you believe the, the new wave taliban is going to be substantially different? or should we just wait and see on the combination of all 3. i think

that they've learned quite a lot. you know, they've been out of government for 20 years. they've had time to reflect on this, on the mistakes that they made. they were brutal, they were list. but now i think that they're more mature registered govern properly. when they gave the press conference, i was just honest, you know, talking about women's rights and then thinking, how don't you know this is the taliban, but they made. all right. so let's see them roll it out. let's see the de follow up and much of course the progress that has been made for women and i've gone this time has been probably the only justification for the the intervention over 20 years. from no doubt,

some of that is real. but you know, skeptic about how that starts, the lives of, of most women. and i've got to start. yeah, i mean, it would be childish not to acknowledge that women empty, the women judges the women, journalists and tv presented. however, you know, i'm from a working class background, i like to know what's going on with my sister's in bed work in class areas. and that's basically where our troubles to when i've been to off down. there are no korea women emerging from the rubble of the rural areas. more than 2 thirds of african women still can't read and write 10000000 children to full time education in the last 2 years because of the instability of the country. for 1000000 children will still not get into schools and this was on the, on the government. and you know, they had to run new school in kandahar spiritual home of the

taliban. but they have no teaches to teach the children. so these are things. unfortunately, the media have been falling short of the, you know, they've been using the building of a new school for 2000 pupils. how wonderful and then they walked off and haven't followed up to see their teachers in the school to teach the pupils well over. well, pass to show you in dollars has been expanded mostly on military equipment and bombs and missiles and bullets and hardware and software. have you ever considered what might have happened in dollars has been spent on economic and social development of the people every be a paradise on f. so with that sort of expenditure, well, you know,

the top 20 is to build a nation and the wall tree and some of the money you change has been wasted on the weaponry to replace the taliban with the taliban. essentially, that's what 25 seen is done. now i was looking into some history books and that old wrote robert and the gobby when he became leader of his symbolic way. he invested a lot of money on education. and in to decade, he turn symbolic way into the talk to forming country in africa with the highest literacy rates among women. and the literacy rates. he got up to 89 percent. now, if an old road like that, who did many of the bad things can turn around the education system and lift his country to, to the believe,

an option. what the west could have in afghanistan, they really couldn't liberated african women. they really could, is brought in and lifted up the adult literacy rate. instead, the only shocking figures that come on top the leak in is the amount of women who contemplate, try out and commit suicide everywhere else in the world. the sink is in every single country, without exception. oh, predominantly men, the highest weakest in afghanistan, the highest figures of those attempting to side all women. and it's about $3000.00 a year and that's it to bill subject. so it's probably much higher. but 80 percent of those trying to commit suicide in afghanistan, women, and you have to ask why,

why if women's rights are, if ration is, if you cation is, why is this happened lee? and i really wish that my sister's in afghanistan, the same questions. how much consciousness and you would experience as a proton, gotta stand of time as a nation state of tall. i mean, do people in various localities associate with the tribe rattle of the country? does it vary from pop to pop? the fact that was that it is a very tribal society that is without doubt and the taliban won't say show us the type of government they go to have they say it's going to be inclusive. and they've reached out to the she has ara apparently,

which is new. the top checks the specs and to pass student. so it's, it is very much a tribal society, but they all ask gums and i think that god is the commonality that will bring them together. also, they've had 45 years of famine stripe, to occupations and endless wars. and they're ready, 50, say they, they want something new. and i think i'm really chrisy optimistic this time. and finally vulnerably. when you came out, you have captivity with the taliban. new and public platforms and a strong voice. argue against these interventions and extend the was what would your message know be to, to west and leave those and terms of how they approach a afghanistan and terms of how they could properly assist in the development of the

country. don't walk away the last time you walked away, you isolated the tall about on the international stage. and gunston became a k brown for f. 3. want to be happy, so don't walk away. it won't work. however, if you going to come back on the south, this time was 8 with practical ho with socialist motivation, i'm not sure the west couldn't do that. that's. you know, that country needs to know me. if teachers they just had a brain drain. they, they need doctors, professional soup, and i'll rebuild the country the west this time. can try nation building without weapons. yvonne ridley, thank you so much for joining me once again on the like simon show. thank you alex

. what's the flight from the capital and the final collapse of the last embers of resistance and upon sheer valley, north of capital wasted me to interest enough gone. a sun is fading fast. however, for those whose lives have been touched by 40 years of conflict. but as a more considered and sustained, i'm also going on. he provides a not unusual immigrants to someone who by what in determination, find fame and success and heard adopted land but still has never lost her affinity should have gone on doctor von ridley. i choose something and hard brush for the taliban, which eluded beneath 2 allies in the 20 years. the conflict she best of them had expedient conditioned her you on if you tell it to of military occupations and interventions. and instead now cause for armies have made it from teachers to assist the afghan people from both. the semen comes to perspective morning during

and more important than instant reporting of the blood and chaos excites from couple. and so from alex myself and all this is good bye for. and i hope to see you all again, next week the me in the, the me, the news

the news, the the a stab in the back in front event. that's frustration, that's 3 bits, allies, the u. s. u. k and australia. leave it out of a pacific security pack that is seen as an effort to count to china go by and make the rather embarrassing flip up while announcing that deal apparently forgetting the name of the australian prime minister. thank you bores and i want to thank that shuttle down under. thank you very much. i appreciate it also has the other program here on our tea while european markets real from when the phase record

search and the natural gas price critics off with.