ah, welcome to the alexandra sure where we turn once again to the end of the war in afghanistan. this time we had to be to women whose lives had been inescapably touched by the long conflict. masika his son, he was an african refugees who finally came to the u. k. during the 1st period of taliban government, doctor vaughan ripley was a tough journalist who for the short period some 20 years ago, became the most famous women on the planet i. she was captured by the taliban on their very eve of the need to envision that experience this of giving them different perspectives of a gun, a son in war, and peace. both join alex in a moment, but 1st few tweets emails and messages in response to our program last week on the aftershock of loan call that he faith says highly informative entities. the case has been made to wait a mask on keep a safe distance from all. we must above all take care this cool that can destroy

your life. thanks alex and take care. dr. watson says, thank you for this great program, alex and tis nina. i 5 long covert knife for 18 months and have long term nerve damage. but brain fog has pretty much cleared up. so i feel qualified to see, i think, to minutes analysis at the end of the program with support on scientific drawn. and we wish you well, let me talk says if it just a post vital syndrome. identical to amy. while amy, maybe to concede asleep and properly researched or will people with long cold would be left for 30 years towards a psychological or even sent for damage. graduates an exercise therapy, suddenly william nickle says sign for that. that is definitely long cool. that are continuous health problems even after the back. so i can truthfully say, since march 2021 my legs more, but someone elses some investigation to to be into a good few health centers in scotland. enemy,

thank you for another informative. sure. well, thank you, william. i knew issue well, now must go. has donnie, it's ask on board, but her family fled there country. she became a very, a typical and spoken miss england. and i run campaigns for mental health strategies, particularly for muslim women. i'm also welcome to the family show. thank you. tell us how you and your family came to the u. k. my family and i were living between 2nd son and i've got a son because my parents studied in sex, done so we would go back and forth during the holidays. so throughout my childhood i was spending some i was in cobbled, and one year we came back to was records done to for like a short break. so we literally pack a vacation bag last everything. and then the war broke out and we never went back. and i remember for years my mother crying over her wedding pictures because those

are the only memory she had left from her wedding day. so we left everything that we've ever known and just took the clothes on our back and just never went back home. it was the waiting game because we saw that this is a matter of the year or 2 and we will go back home at some point. but as we said in the sun and we watch the situation deteriorate more and more, the only option was to try and get the rest of the family members out. so i remember my grandmother and grandfather came separately to very hard journeys. she was stuck at the airport for hours to people smugglers and we have a way we could. we got them out. so it was very, it's a very vivid memory. that's what i remember. i got a son, i was the all was the assumption that one day the family would return home. did you identify as afghanistan yourself and we were thinking about one day will bill to go by? absolutely. i think when you speak to any afghans around the world and you also,

whether from me, always introduce i thought that afghan and then our host country because i, i don't to so on our country we not was or for that case now. and then he's in a racial is a born die in war. and because of that we feel extra protective over identity because it's always someone's invading and someone's trying to paint us in a very bad way. so that's why i think from the day that we're bored, we get told to don't forget where you from. don't forget where you ruth. say you are afghan, you are afghan. and to be honest, i didn't understand that up until recently because i was too young and i thought, why is this being imposed on me so much? yes, i know i'm, i've gotten with my parents and my community always made sure that i don't forget where i come from. but now, with the recent events and everything that's going on and i've got a sad, i feel exactly the same. and i will make sure that my children's children know that

i was asked. and that every generation of mine will not forget where they come from . because i feel so protective of my identity now. but as a young refugee, let me stop you, having substantial achievements, it became miss england. tell us about that. thank you. i mean, i started modeling as a very young age, which was very unconventional from someone of my background, but i was very lucky to have the opportunity to do that and also have the support and i really enjoyed what i was doing and them the patches came up and it wasn't something that i plan to do. i didn't know, did i dream of being a beauty queen when i was young? but for me it was. if i do this and i'm successful, that's giving me a platform to have to speak on the situation of my whole country. perhaps an unconventional beauty queen in the sense that you took the opportunity to speak out against the the prime minister of the day 20 blair. yes, i mean,

looking back at that may have been a little bit rushed because i was 18 years old at that time. so i was put on the spotlight and i had no media training. i just knew the situation in my home country . and when i got given the opportunity, i thought this is the only time that every food you get from gala san will have the world listen to her. so i'm going to speak from my heart and i'm going to say what i truly feel. and i feel like that was probably the night of my age that i just spoke exactly how i felt and, but i don't regret it must have take courage as an 18 year old, the achieving a great achievement. but, and i totally feel to say, i want to say something about the views of the prime minister making criticism not scarce, quite a step to take as an 18 year old. yeah, i mean from the day that i was my, when was very political because the timing of the pageant foul 2 months after the

london bombings happened. so it was july and then i won the pageant in september. so the sense of islam of phobia was very, very present at that time. and for the 1st time muslims were getting attacked since 911. it then came to the u. k. and so we were constantly, every time i went in the interview. so i got introduced to people they would look at me like i was lying about where i was from because surely people from ghana, son don't look like me, don't speak like me because they had this image of what the media painted afghan people to be like or muslim community to be like just barbarians. and so i felt that they fell on my shoulders to to get rid of that view, a stigma that it was created by the media. so that's why it was just the timing of it. and it was my obligation, i felt like it was my duty to my people to change the narrative of the way the world was painting on people,

which is again what's happening now. so your concern was as lama phobia, arising from generalizing the, the acts of some terrorist and saying, well that's the whole religion or a whole range of people. that was your concern. yes. range of people. and of course because $911.00 was linked to ghana. sad was the why the muslim community, but then in particular i've got a son because every time i spoke to people and they would ask me, where is your background from? i say i've got a sense like, oh summer been like he's not i've got so yeah that's, that doesn't relate to me. but that's the view that people had of i've got a son. so i felt like i was the, the fighter for the i've got an identity and i did that then. and at that time there was no social media, things going viral. so now that i'm speaking up, i feel does a lot of my god follows feel that it's very new to them. this is not the 1st time i've done this, so i'm more than happy to 5 mike or 95. so what i believe is right. and then you

started your work and mental health looking particularly at the mental health of refugees to tell us, tell us. but i went through this myself of course. so i think the way i fell into the mental health side is because i look back as everything that i have achieved. and also the battles and difficulties that i had to deal with as a migrant. as a re, fuji a someone who didn't speak english or someone who was always the all foreign child at school, the one that didn't have nice clothes to air until my parents managed to get jobs and earn money. so we could, so i would always go in to school in a 2nd hand clothes and donations for the 1st few months. and then there i was 10 years later representing england as their view to clean or being a model and being in magazines and flying around the world. so i felt like i had to share my experience because i understand the battles that people of the afghan. yes,

for a face or any other face. you know, if you are determined, if you keep strong and they truth of who you are, the new kind of 2 things and you can get that. having said that, it's not an easy journey. but because i've done as i'd like to share that knowledge and experience and help others, because i know that we have so much talent. i know that we're just as intellectual smarts, motivated people and women. because i feel like i've got women are so oppressed and they're painted as these. i mean, they're not, they're just the humanized. you know, lives are getting lost, left right and center children and women and girls with what's happening right now . they're just seen as numbers as these blue goes with the brokers. that's all i've got women i know now in the world. so i just wanted to show the world that know where we're also capable. we're just as good as anyone else. thinking about the refugees who you've spoken to help through your work. some idea of the range of

activities. at least people are now in gauge and across the, the full extent of life. yeah, i mean the people that i speak with even, and i've got a son during the last 20 years where there was a little bit of peace. there is a gals robotics team casing team like, you know, given the opportunities these, the guilds robotics team, build ventilators out of call, pause to help with it. and it was actually working and functional and was used in some of the hospitals. this is the level of talent that's out there, but it's just that we're just not seen as people or human so we don't get those out of paternity. and that's why i was always grateful. an appreciative of the opportunity that i received because that could have been me. i was just lucky to be born at a different place and a different time to different parents. so i manage to grasp the opportunities with

both hands. but if all our people had the same opportunities as me, i'm sure that our country would be in a very different stage right now. on the cost of the influx of some thousands of african refugees, many of whom have fled the country in the most pressed the circumstances. well, what would your message be to these people come again? and what message would you have to the horse community in terms of, of improving the life chances of the, of the people we're welcoming into this country? we need to understand that these people have probably severe pvc. they're all in trauma response at the moment. so it'll take a very long time and it will be difficult. it's not easy. i'm hearing some horrific stories of being stuck in airports for hours on end without food and drink. so their trauma hasn't even ended yet. so until they settle,

it's not going to be easy. it's not going to be, you know, it's not like they came into an amazing new life. they may not get killed. but there is other ways and mental health that will just deteriorate and will be very difficult for them. but, you know, at the end of the day they are the lucky ones that escaped. they, if they should, we should all be grateful that we manage to help some people given this opportunity to have a new life, you will be ok. it does take time and they have the community here to help them as well as other people. because i've had an influx of people who are non, i've got who wants to help and well. and so there are people who are very welcoming and hopefully with time and a lot of how a lot of mental health, what they'll be able to start a new life. and i, so the whole country, i'd say the media pains the re fuji's as this us and always. but these are just people and they just, they're running away from bombs and mines. and they just, they just want to have

a chance to live and to have an opportunity to like, look at me, i was given that opportunity and i've done my fair share for english or for my job, my industry and everything else that i stand for. so these are just people like me and they're giving if you give them the opportunity, they'll also flourish and do their best. i'm i so thank you so much for joining them, alex. i'm coming up on to the break. i'll continue to discussion on the time i see interviews, dr. barton ridley join us in the bank guys or financial survival guy. when customers go buy, you reduce the bin l well,

reduce the lower the best under cutting, but what's good for food market is that get to the global economy ah, working machine, she popped in. she said, well, i'm getting ready to go shopping for christmas and we recently was going to buy another shooting another safe part of american life shattered by violence. the gunman was armed with an a r 1570 automatic rifle. when the issue comes home, it's time to act. when we're filing on this issue, the other side window. by default, the lady that lived over there. i was walking one of the dogs. why do you wear again? were you scared? i took it off and i think the people need to take responsibility in their own hands and be prepared if those kinds of weapons were less available. we wouldn't have

a lot of shootings and we certainly wouldn't have the number. and i welcome back. alex is discussing the end of the war and i've got a son from a women's perspective. he takes up the story with doctor von ridley, of honorably. welcome back to the simon show. thank you. 20 years ago, almost to the day. you are just about the most famous woman on the planet because you were captured by the the taliban. what i'm f for you. we're doing and getting captured and 20 years ago. oh wow. intend to get captured. i was sad that she should portrait the sunday express newspaper, and i gone into afghanistan on an undiscovered mission. it was after the, as i said, 9, the lesson was $3000.00 journalists assembled on the pockets. don't ask on

board or waste into the wall to start. i've always been impatient and i want to get in there ahead of them and find out what life was like under the ruling taliban. the only thing that went wrong with the plan was that 2 days day and i got cold. so avoid a combination of bravado, determination. the taliban found you too hot to handle and you are the least. what's the perspective of 20 years perspective? back? do you find yourself out in the morning saying that really happened to me? yeah, i just same for thinking of doing. you know what you say it was a reckless thing to do, although it was happened intend to to get cold. i was terrified as we single day, although having said that, i was also the prisoner from how i spotted my floor them. i through thing

shopton. simply because i was convinced that they were going to kill me. and so i wanted it over and done with this quickly as possible. i didn't want any torture. i want to cut out the middleman. take me straight against the wall and shoot me because this is what happens in the an evil, brutal regime. but they didn't, they treat me with kindness and they kept saying to me why you be anything like this. you were our guest, we want you to be happy. so you came out of that extraordinary experience with a different world perspective. and you came to the conclusion that was trying to revise the waste views on, on was of state building nation building, occupation,

and we would leave it on my last night. by this time i've been transferred to prison and fall into war started. and i suddenly found out what it was like to be bombed by person and america. and there's no way to run nowhere to hide. i sort of thought to myself, if i get out of this and going straight into the anti war movement, i did as a matter of fact, i'm not a peacenik. i think, you know, there's a road for the armed forces. but imperial and colonial walls and occupations. no way. i'm terms of the taliban land. i mean as a government they've been ruthless vindictive. repress of women's rights. what you know do you think there still light laughter? do you believe the, the new wave taliban is going to be substantially different?

she would just wait and see on the combination of all 3. i think that they've learned quite a lot. you know, they've been out of government for 20 years. they've had time to reflect on this, on the mistakes that they made. they were brutal, they were list. but now i think more mature, registered govern properly. when they gave the press conference, i was just honest, you know, talking about women's rights and then thinking, how don't you notice the taliban? but they made. all right. so let's see them roll it out. let's see the de follow up and much of course, the progress that has been made for women and i've gone this time has been probably the only justification for the the intervention over 20 years. and no doubt some of

that is real. but, you know, skeptic about how is this touched the lives of, of most women and i've got to start. yes. i mean, it would be childish not to acknowledge that women empty the women judges the women journalist and tv presented. however, you know, i'm from a working class background, i like to know what's going on with my sister's in bed work in class areas. and that's basically where our trouble to, when i've been to off down there are no korea women emerging from the rubble of the rural areas. more than 2 thirds of african women still can't read and write 10000000 children to full time education in the last 2 years because of the instability of the country. for 1000000 children will still not get into schools and this was on the, on the government. and you know,

they had to run new school in kandahar, spiritual home of the taliban, but they have no teaches to teach the children. so these are things, unfortunately, the media have been falling short of the, you know, they've been using the building of a new school for 2000 pupils. how wonderful. and then they walked off and haven't followed up to see their teachers in the school to teach the pupils well over well pass to show you in dollars. so it's been expanded mostly on military equipment and bombs and missiles and bullets and, and hardware and software. if you ever consider what might have happened in dollars have been spent on economic and social development of people, every be a paradise on f, that sort of expenditure. well,

you know this have 20 years to build a nation. and the i was trying some, the money you change has been wasted on the weaponry to replace the taliban with the taliban. essentially, that's what 20 years of fighting this done. now i was looking into some history books and that old wrote robert and the gobby when he became leader of his symbolic way. he invested a lot of money on education. and in to decade, he turn symbolic way into the talk to forming country in africa with the highest literacy rates among women. and the literacy rates. he got up to 89 percent. now, if an old road like that, who did many of the bad things can turn around the education system and lift his

country to, to the of belief, an option what the west could have done in afghanistan, they really couldn't liberated african women. they really could, is brought in and lifted up the literacy rate instead. the only shocking figures that come on top of the league in is the amount of women who contemplate, try out and commit suicide everywhere. as in the world, the think is in every single country, without exception. oh, predominantly men, the highest weakest in afghanistan to highest figures of those attempting to side all women. and it's about $3000.00 a year and that's it to bill subject. so it's probably much higher, but 80 percent of those trying to commit suicide in afghanistan,

a women. and you have to ask why, why if women's rights, if liberating, is if education is, why is this happened lee? and i really wish that my sisters in afghanistan, the same questions. how much consciousness and new experience as the fro task at a stand of time as a nation state told me, do people in various localities associate with the tribe rattle of the country? all the others that vary from pop to pop. the fact that it is a very tribal society is without doubt and the taliban won't say show us the type of government they go to have they say it's going to be increased and they've reached out to the she has ara apparently,

which is new. the top checks the specs and to pass students. so it is very much a tribal society, but they all ask gums and i think that god is the commonality that will bring them together. also, they've had 45 years of famine, stripe, to occupations. and endless was and they read the 50 said they, they want something new. and i think i'm really quietly optimistic this time. the finally yvonne read late. when you came out, you have captivity with the taliban. new and public platforms and a strong voice. argue against these interventions and external was what would your message know be to, to west leave those and terms of how they approach

a afghanistan and terms of how they could properly assist in the development of the country. don't walk away the last time you walked away, you isolated the tall about on the international stage. galveston became a play brown for every want to be happy, so don't walk away. it won't work. however, if you go to come back on me, oh, selves this time with aids with practical ho, with socialist motives ation, i'm not sure the west can do that, but you know, that country needs to know me. if teachers they just had a brain drain, they, they need doctors, professionals who can help rebuild the country, the west this time can try nation building without weapons.

yvonne ridley, thank you so much for joining me once again on the exam and show. thank you, alex was the flight from the capital and the final collapse of the last embers of resistance in upon sheer valley, north of couple wasted media interest enough gone. a sun is fading fast. however, for those whose lives have been touched by 40 years of conflict, but as a more considered and sustained her muscle is tiny, provides, and not unusual immigrants to someone who by what determination finds fame and success and her adopted land, but still has never lost her affinity sort of gone on doctor von ridley. she's something in hard brush for the taliban, which eluded beneath 2 allies in the 20 years. the conflict she best of them had expedient conditioned hope you on if you tell it to, of military occupations and interventions. and instead, now, cause for armies of medicine teachers to assist the afghan people from both these

women comes to perspective morning shooting and more important than instant reporting of the blood and chaos ec flights from couple. and so from alex myself and all of this is good bye for night. stacy's. i hope to see you all again next week. oh i the the

me the news the pay stub in the back from spend that straight shanella 3 of its allies. they us the u. k. i'm just really a leave it. i tell the pacific security allied countries, china and the job i can make them borrow things slip up while i thing the deal. i hardly for guessing the name of the trillion prime minister. thank you. bores and i want to thank that fell down under thank you very much. appreciate.