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training, the youth withdrawal from garrison as a soft american allies adjusted on seeing it as a total failure. one of them is india. we are having inductors, billions of dollars in afghanistan, economy, and much diplomatic capital in supporting its secular forces. now have to do with the taliban, have new jelly loss the game or just simply need to change tag. well, did it got that? i'm now joined by brockman chil, any professor of strategic studies at the center for policy research in your dowdy professor. chil, any great talk to thank you very much for finding the time you for having me. now i've heard some prominent indian being crazy, including india, the former foreign secretary of all the balls, and we had to show it just a couple of months ago characterize the current situation in afghanistan as the worst of all possible scenarios for india. do you agree with side

such a negative portrayal of the as to what has happened? job shop blunder has song the greatest victory for paris in the modern history of global gardens. if you will, consider what happened in syria and iraq. isis established a so called color sharp color that occurred in vacuum vertical market printed by the c. i s board warm against the president of syria, and that was the northern part of city coming on, governor me, that's how i rose and created a cognitive not the feel the thought of on how did you know that he again was mike as far so this has been a huge post thought yeah, this across the world and this over the quote unquote racing

starting this largest, and dennis ross across the world to chil, any. i think again, nathan may present a special case here, although i agree with much of what do you just sad this special case may be in that not many world government was only welcome be arrival of the taliban and capital. most of them still have some sort of a convert channel to that with including, including russia, including many countries in the region. so i wonder if that sort of creative would different situation because obviously the italian one is very regressive wars . but at the same time, you have to admit that it's a grassroots force and of course, the most control of the ground at this point. and then, what happens is one country in getting its neighbor to

a proxy militia, its proxy militia focused on rear and frame and the same since 994. imagine one of our been country in europe and country and was staying quiet. this is actually what has happened focused on has gain control of congress gone. and that's why you see on the streets of carbon. and that's when it's done evil in defiance, rally faith and shouting, and the pakistan slogans. because no country would like to be an occupied by an abilene country that proxy force and the proxy pose of

garish, of murderous stars. these are people who will be a fetus trick. not just to the neighbors will be a trip to all in every countries. they'll try to dock guns, but perhaps the chil, any, it's well established as packets and how long have connections with the taliban logistical military connections, perhaps intelligence connections, what have you. and this is something that was actually also relates you or president biden, in his last call with that now is warmer than gunny. and before he also said that the tolerable worth is coming over the capital with a race report of pakistan. but having said that, don't you recognize the tale, but as the force also has driven a train from, from the graph, you gather some, can you really call it at simply

a profit wars? it's a bar of the if you create a large force, all mercenaries don't train an arm of them, but nuclear weapons provides money for them. and in fact, the most command and control network on the tennessee. but since what august has done for so many years, and that's why the americans loss the american bar, the wrong entity on the wrong side of the line. which device i'm going to start in focused on americans recognize that it is not just a water boxed on on to strategic reasons. now, pocket on strategically. and then i've got his son fighting, fighting in a way that was unwinnable,

but your enemy is the owner. i its operating from across the border where the leadership is based on that enemy when they come on in control of that in these days. how can you, when the war? well, i think many people must believe that the americans didn't want to wind up for the 1st place. and when you look at the, lisa beneficiaries, the, you know, military companies, that's why that's why, you know, it's easy to understand why in terms of the size of that procurement. but speaking about packets of tickets in geo politics, one always has to be capital of what to wish for. and i've got to spend that time and time again. these seemingly expand that would hold that pakistan has supposedly gained the and i can extend right now is really without its own liability. given that package has its own issue with the pakistani bomb. it has its

own issue with fund mental is not to mention over its being 1000000 refugees in pakistan. should they be capital? will they wish for most let me respond to the 1st part of the come in the war may have become them for the americans. but wanting to see had become even more important. and what is unfolded, watershed moment down in history books as a market, the beginning of the end of american preeminence. this is the end of america. and vital will be remembered in history for making was a dentist heiress. donavon man again died of 2000 in america. so with us and what has been especially done after the us expensive functionable blood pressure in

a long law. yeah. ultimately helped its own entity. right. trying to lead back to off, well, i don't want you to spoken with the vitamin ministration, but i think he has already expressed in a number of species that he's decision was a decision of not letting even more american soldiers to be killed. if you consider this war to be winnable, so perhaps, you know, the moral decision would be to simply put an answer. but can i ask you to address let's, let's fund to the single american soldier. happy joe's awarded. it was then again and i had him, so it is improved announcement that is pretty donald trump, the us most honest man and a mom of $2500.00. in fact,

the american combat road ended at the end of 2014. from the beginning of 2015, the americans went on the front lines on the front lines in the last 6 and a half years before finally announced the pullout. only 99 american jews. and many of them and non hostile in to the, in comparison security forces lost people in that period because they're on the front line. so the line, that's why we have try to sell the american public is based on a bit like why do you think that the americans want to just stay for so long? but the mother that needs to be good americans have for many laws. after world war 2, i'm going to sound low. what?

where the american spot, where the public toys supported the war. right till the end. the majority of william was in support of the war. europe, just as war began in 2001, gather, has shown and saw this miss the american title, the war. and that's what led by them to withdraw rapidly. got to see. in fact, even if you wanted to withdraw there was a need. well, it was, get him so much draw in a manner that caused the class. i'm going to see don realty, i actually been rugged from under the feet. i've gone military now in a minute we had last before the break. i do want you to turn your attention to the

questions that i asked before about the pakistan and whether it should be capital or what it wishes for in i've got this done, this expanded would hold that again. do you really think it comes without any mix for his mamma? it certainly doesn't come without any misc package. sunny said centers. creation. 1947 was, in fact, the park is sunny state has been willing to take higher lists. and that's the reason why pakistan has sounds as essentially international terrace. whether i'd tie dahlia barn type play about type use, that is india. the fact is that park is done and the ground 0. what

international bar wrong time. again, the fact is that the americans should have been war and get up there on after chase that have stood around against washington novel. they have identified iran, sherry, north korea, and this, yes, cuba, as opposed to the sponsors of terrorism. but even the americans want to look in private doesn't most biggest. nancy, of them is though the biggest century find the national services pakistan. but these still are, are labeled as allies by washington. so. 2 the fact that that protest on such a long time has gone by this does

a lot about the b warren get has been bass. and also does. there's a lot as to why this is more on guerra. how one of the ridge is last. the last bar just the time the war was, was, you know, was declared often i 11 off terrorism deeper and the why the in the world was let's see, trying to this warranty or residential, any. it's hard to argue with that, but we have to take a very short break right now. we will be back to the discussion in just a few moments. for me, i

the back kaiser's financial aid is a girl. i want to be the central product support dong a call them i know they stopped in the me or i was a part of it brought me for a strategic studies at the center of policy research in new delhi, vincent chil, any before the break we were talking about the packet involvement in affairs.

it's not like you haven't tried to, there's own pressure or implants on again, it's politics new daily, believes to be to have supported the northern alliance. logistically, militarily humana entirely. it's treated some of the a lot of things that russia, for example, did as well. so i'm not trying to point to fingers. index was the way, i think everybody have been quite in mass in politics. i know that over the last few days it has become one of the main sponsors of by civil reconstruction, ganeth, having invested over i think we 1000000000 us dollars. do you think all of that was in vain, or do you use your hope that your country will be able to recover some of it to get some of the returns on its investments?

well, that investment didn't go down the rate. it was what investment and some of biting shed recently that did not go to kind of fun foundation noting that is true left to a lot of nations to assist and so reconstruction. and i've got some, i mean, get aside to play an important role in helping, honest on your bill range dams are then 5 structure. i recently completed, i'm a new part of the build a nature highway network and it was and in fact it managed to commerce on to the wrong in port off while i

started to do a hard job harcourt of iran. so creating a in alternative road for trade. it was traditionally dependent on pakistan for trade because the train goes to the park, has plenty of karachi, so whatever you invested in a gun, this time, you're not be destroyed by the tunnel because that is just so i've got people. so no money has been wasted. by india, in fact, one way has constructed will continue to convince, i've gone good will for india. now can i ask you something and you know, when i talk to rush nationalists about india and its presence in ghana, some they usually they said just the in you have the sort of dependency problem in when it comes to strategic foreign policy thinking. first it over estimated the solidity of dependence on the americans. how much they could be trusted.

that can they believe that is now over estimating the taliban reliance on the packet. we prevented from building its own ties with the movement. however unseemly it may, it may be, do you agree with that that in yeah, that of overestimates all over expect. other partners, you more of what it should be doing it's out of sessions are not correct and have not oh, relies on the americans don't that a us? i mean yeah, i don't see i do. i reach marcus. so when i came to this time, there was a recognition both in new delhi in washington that the divergence cannot be wretched. never right on the us. here's wanted by doing the

ministration. draw from us on, on the basis and dishes. even the eyes of the sort, the conditions based, withdrawn from a corner by noon and not all of their lives. and certainly there was no one in the line of washington, india distributed partner as part of the 2nd thing is let's be clear as to the dollar on the have been august on august on to shut the way into service intelligence agency, one as i, as i how can i pass it? oh, oh, what sponsor? no one exchanges and dennis throws wrong, time has been an enabler, international terrorism. not a intelligent,

seen the low has promoted international terrorism to the extent that i have done a lot more than 4 decades. yet. any of us under, from iran, islam is loosely god will watch list of terrorist organizations. but i have never been in the midst. why? because i have all these acids, and i, if i, if so, is part of a major exporting force out of military i as part of august on the military and the quality times, well the tides with national groups is providing as president. trump said she was that we are now in fact nothing better than the foundation of the noble war on data. then the fact that the u. s. government never added even the

dollar bomb to foreign get us of musicians. well, you're actually leading doesn't, doesn't, doesn't really show how this war on kara has been age. you mentioned the interesting why is that, is that the designation of the taliban as a, as a tar organization? by many times with around the world including the united nations itself. one of the taliban came to power 25 years ago. i think back as i was one of the very few countries to also welcome it. but nowadays it's an issue that many, many governments around the world have to have to consider. and this is a thorny issue because they have strong reasons for doing that. and strong reasons for not doing that. we sat up considerations, doing the prevailing new down by the solid on what previously and far from 99600113 countries recognized that she and pakistan

saudi arabia and the hughie and shina had somewhat what was, what can be called defacto recognition, they had a office in kabul and on the day and i'm living happen, there was this chinese delegation in shining and the ones but the taliban re fi today. this mission of the but just because you have not just pakistan and which other lady, because of the new regime in cobble, you have russia and china, which has maintained the embassy. it's open in china with the taliban. let's not forget an important bridge and other important original players into all its own outreach programs. the taliban was talking to scott, yvonne is different from actually keeping the embassies open and constantly

recognizing the new regime, which is what russia and china are doing. so that's a, that's many different look at the new regime. it's dominated by home, but dominated by, by mom was not one done. i'm all, they, jenny, and you were listed. are us designated service. and so go from prime minister of the taliban regime. and there's also a un listed garris, it was instrumental in the destruction of what does a terrorist regime prevents many countries from trying to establish their own or birth or convert channels to that moment. do you think you will see the date when india especially recognizes the taliban government? any government seems to launch demise and recognize and make the scanner so human.

internationally acceptable will be committing a crime. any journalism? try with international law this the terrorist regime cobble. don't years back and you 2008. nelson mandela was an a cherish list. and i remember when the presence of your countries was from travelling in the west, where he's the largest nationalist views and it wasn't the change he used that got him on the lease. it was a huge rising and political prominence that's come to that decision. so when it comes to international international politics, i think we both know when there is a will, there is a way, do you think a moment will come when the international community, regardless of how much it said. and regardless of all the morality issues associated with that, do you think they will come? they will come a day when the international community here will recognize the taliban?

absolutely didn't have government with all due respect, your trust, assert comparisons. and then you ask a rather the kind of reality, but the accepted by the international community, nelson mandela on that is that i'm all the, did not take up arms both. didn't have a gun. well, not a gun culture. nelson mandela was associated with resistance movements and yes, but he was associated with resistance. he himself was not involved in any and also associated with well as reason, the eyes of western critics with, with the massacre in involving many of the muslim nationals. well, again, that's a missed and maybe that's a good comparison,

but i bring you back to my question. was normal, you know what happened in the state of the movie? there was a train that was attacked by a muslim law. they kill a large number of in those who were passengers in that trade, that led to a backlash in which a number of muslims can both these i and then so you know, this was certainly cannot be compared to international journalism that international terrorism is basically defined as actually by one group and once again, another state never be in south africa, india. any grow in was in cross border terrorism in trust. national happen. and certainly, you know, giving examples of de la mo,

the trying to put money as i'm trying to be from a terrorist. i'm not sure. i mentioned those examples to illustrate that terrorism is that actually you said that there is a clearly defined definition. there is no internationally agreed definition of you know, the woman services and not man's freedom fighter. that's been a common ways of jo, politics, but dick isn't vacant, but since we are running out of time, i do want to hear your opinion on whether you believe that the international community needs the as it is about the taliban, is history is views of social relations, do you think they will come a moment they will recognize this as a legitimate government? yes. and no one was of this recognizing that would be a betrayal of the gone people. those are some things that we

have to live there. i really appreciate your being with us today. thank you very much for the time and thank you for watching hope is there again next week on was apart from me the me ah ah ah, ah ah ah

ah, ah, the ah questions who saw on the baker of the parliament for the next 5 years in the final stage of a 3 day exit polls and jelly results as soon as the last polling stations in the country flows, the i am now convinced that as many as 10 to billions.