look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept where's the shorter the conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. the point obviously is to great track, rather than fear i would like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot must protect this phone existence with the

with you, i'm not sure you were going underground coming over the show heaven in disorder one of the world's greatest philosophers level jack on is hot off the presses, new book about corona virus and the end of capitalism. and even a global panoramic couldn't stop bombing sanctions of the destruction of the earth through climate change can hope be found within the structures of capitalism. we don't possibility with award winning industry gallery front man. all the same, all coming up in today's going underground. the 1st 31 years ago in this day, german reunification was ratified closing the book on communism in the eyes of the united states and supposedly ending history. however, 11 years later, civilizations clashed as president george w bush declared war on terror before congress was the question of the end of us

money is once again raised in the context of the defeat enough galveston is the so called wes, sounding of the precipice of a new historical epoch. joining me now is philosophers, lovers, your jack, author of the new book, heaven in disorder. slavery, thanks so much for joining us. again, it's a tour to force is a book that informs everyday lives in whole new ways. i have to tell you, you're playing on a mouse, quote, mouth saying there is great disorder in heaven. the situation is excellent. that what does a disorderly heaven look like? the one in which we live? no, i don't, i don't my mouth. i check the doctor size lease disorder. mauer still believes in investments in us. she started to progress as my last study. please call me go be here on earth so that we can walk.

we can we, we actually realize what are you shipping today? i games is being much more dangerous. the decent order is in kevin. it says, week by, i mean that we can please cannot morning tomorrow, especially in the south west. we cannot unite even on the base seek value that would allow our broberg bank look at the united states today. we can lease situation off or just curious why this explains on so the stands to back to me and so on. and so this is logical leave that going, don't deli,

wrong. now i just found, i used to be a fuse for being. she's if i say something more then we should follow what you want on the way to gauge the lot of freedom and enlighten and fit to set enlightenment mean don't debate just re no last minute means debate then your opinion probably 3, but the say i almost go very, i don't need to be in the new site, or at least so cindy jim, yes, the bait. but when society comes conclusion, we shall be together. and do we beef again in buffy modern box. you better do it today when you are in the united states. if you're in

the house, they don't care about ground floor go window. and then 1st, 2nd, you'll trust claudius one for today, we are right in europe. we, you have to have as 00 in the sense of a saturday to get out and then you can come to your was the issue of the us ambassador to talk about the floors in lift numbers. i mean, there are so many elements to this book with see what we're all going through before i get to the vaccines actually be you were watching on the screen, the taliban victory, the defeat of the united states. and you, i think the tie up in this book between the collective action and the beliefs of the taliban versus the fuzzy mercenaries. they're not conscripted. the nato troops

and the belief and collective action for investing in game stop and bit going you know, you know, why you miss their audience moment again, these guys, because it's very important to mention, it's apparently not connected release in so called freedom. the bottom is modeled in tomorrow, but she to a, from that we have more and more into s today where basically our medicine that he's on dose in what this means. they mostly know broken or not the basin. they just need to follow whatever the sites and be for me again if a lot of momentum movement saudi lunch movement

off the next call axis acts, societies of wanting to do things. on the one hand, cpr is everything is strong, is due to just another just another. we can be already got already chunk people go these folks through logic or on the other. can we hear better? who do you think the new way? just think of ruth goss aspects or any fashion and why this dangerous? no, i don't want you are not because my nation states i want i think the only so you were us facing damage and even more facing global warming.

remember what happened in the show restaurant mission, their stage temperature, almost ecology of fear in a minute. just just resend all these problems to my go only be straight, but i'm not sure what to do to get a grant commitment. be logical. we all have our own young. what is the new database of our lives is just some kind of new knowledge because of course, this leads to the criticism of that view is of course it ends up being in style in ism and that kind of arguably lazy response to the kind of thing you would just saying, but i honestly it is that liberal environment in which you describe an ecology of fear and the dear that people are so frightened by climate catastrophe.

you. i mean this book is coming out as young people. apparently the survey of 10000 people are on the welding for intent. afraid to have children. there is a fear being propagated by the liberals. yes, sir, but i think no, we should go more in the days. i think mostly fear. if you think it's a logical brand. yeah. micro ma'am. i know how we piece, but they don't really believe we need yes or be coming from the building. and so on. some of my friends specifically with my point out barre. oh, so green. got some problems week down on the spear, you know, in what way most people in federal planning are opening up the way it's

best to make us individually responsible for giving us new. if you don't dress, criticize, what did you do in your everyday life? to fight global, warming your deep, you are full size on go and your space into yes movies. but if you know you're, you're much more advocate jane on that in dia, show. she can even be our entire way of life things, sir. yes. now it's no longer as strict just like to say price meaning to me. no east. right? mean it's west. i think we don't you know,

who do think will be start asking for example, because each year mainly we moved for one year when we were not signed, most of the nation we knew was a woman sho theater. i fear because fear chance is not a mobilizing force. i played fear is more water. oh gosh, do be. and you know, you're just, you are trying to rush, you made it. you just wait for read the reason need that and we talk about that liberal guilt and people eating out of paper, drinking yoga, drinking out of paper straws rather than plastic. but yes,

so we are told to give to charity. and you reproduce, oscar wilde's famous quote about the evils of charity. just remind us why charity as a response, dueli struck consequences off capitalism. as you see, it is actually something that makes things worse for the poor and ordinary people. the company throughout a domain called show state, these are best until because she's been lying to got caught by being to try to do, but look at the big chart. okay. he may yet be he's daily. it'll be in the morning keith. the morning he spent hours in philosophy speak with

a free god. god. then he can be you can be back even in the same bill. gates again, guardian, but at the same time the most less got me the least for me. young face. yes, yes. the ghost should be, but you know, i'm only here, you're still your son. he's not giving back in the situation so that will not be with me. so i'll stop that more from philosophy slow as your check off to the break. plus we talk possibility and the future of humanity, neoliberalism within chicago from en route reynolds the oh right now there are 2000000000 people who are overweight or

obese. it's profitable to sell food that is tracy and sugary. and the victim is not at the individual level, it's not individual willpower. and if we go on believing that will never change as obesity epidemic, that industry has been influencing very deeply. the medical and scientific establishment, ah, what's driving the obesity epidemic? it's corporate. me. ah, welcome back. i'm still here with one of the world's greatest philosophers, slow check. well, just, just finally, if one turns on another channel right now, one could probably see. so go mainstream media in a donation is talking about climate change. how we should be proud of de facto mercenary for us, and how we should give to charity,

but they won't be any news about julian assange, who is in jail just down the road from the studio. why in this book, do you adopt, maxwell can i'm as quote you about the idea that don't dare talk about chinese protest is in hong kong or bella, luce, you don't care about julian, it's the most bank. so you don't be, don't know, we don't we neuro spear. yes, no pretty. we experience for pretty if you go to the west, if you are in some you paid for by the 3. do you want to so the way where you want enjoyment warm, but the safety space? 3 don't you are going to the 40 money. you want to go to the you experience your store there or is your pretty booked today? it's no longer working class or even some kind of restaurant thing. you

know, he's thing, he's watching gas he flo king think we can be here in liver thinking i know you got to where you are a smaller never got the least. you are 3. you can make the contract, there's no real work guess you meet d and they say you small. your brother is your last and you will surely for here or you're also least you see this is you are asleep. pretty sure they say when they say they say yes, you know, people you want to 3, you can invest

a little bit of money that you get into sounds. and so want to do a li, narrow your freedom savage check. thank you. well, if jack solution to the relentless chaos facing the world is communism, another book examining the existential crises, facing the world today argues that just identifying the structural issues inherent within your liberalism is enough to start changing as a treatise on possibility, perspectives on humanity hereafter. my interest yukari frontman reynolds is a collection of essays that excludes issues from nuclear war to climate change to political polarization. through the prism of the capitalist structures that drive them going on, the ground deputy editor charlie cook spoke to him earlier. the route. thank you so much coming back on going underground. you written books before,

but this is not just the kind of companion piece to your album. this is more would you would you call it manifesto. it's just the explosion of the some things i've considered, i think, as he say, it's not, it's not so much me just delving in and explaining the lyrics to help you find, you know, guide them through our thought processes. it's much more of a sort of exploration of the world that we live in, rarely and just explain the kind of central concept you call it a treatise on possibility. and it's a 2. it's a double edged sword and a thing being possible, but also everything being possible. just explain the kind of central concept of possibility is able to see this just incredibly broad like it can still of mean wherever you want any can lead you down it any road. what i find interesting with, with album title, where we, the choice to use everything is possible is because we don't really have much of

a choice in it, so to speak, you know, like now our technology has progressed to such an incredible point. and we are of wisdom hasn't really kept up with it. so it creates this slight fascinating point wherever, as a species, which is why we're so so powerful. but we haven't really learned how to deal with this power. and therefore we in a grave danger of kind of destroying ourselves completely, which is one of the big aspects of the, of the book we look into existential risks. yeah, i would like to come back to humanities, future, or lack thereof, as it may be. but how important was it for you when writing this to the literature of this kind is elitist or inaccessible? how important was it for you to write something which can, which anyone can read? anyone can understand the kind of concepts within i think that was one of the most important bits for me really. i think, you know, the thinking if i had had these kind of these books and these kind of inroads into

these subjects as a, as a kid myself, i would have been out of growing up a lot more confident and not more a lot most of infuse i thing and passionate about exploring these, these big subjects. i think my thing is all about encouraging like the intrigue of the youth instead of dislike bludgeoning them down again. this is how it's all about of withholding of the imagination, which i think is one of the most dangerous things that humanity can do. because it's one of our best traits we are created species, when it comes to a possibility, i want to make clear that it doesn't touch upon the, this isn't a vague way again and again when it comes to climate change or political lying, or the polarization law while you bring it back and back to new liberalism and all kind of the capitalist system in which we live, are you surprised how often? all of these arrows always came back to the concept and liberalism when you are writing. and i think i've got to the point now because of the so much the research

that i've done and you know, in the, in the book i talk about from the bus i view. so like, take yourself out of like the territorial rabbit, spying out on the ground. you know, the tribal is in the hostility, that is just rife in society a moment and just look at things from a systems perspective. that is really the most important thing for me. because we were not encouraged to view things when on courage to zoom out and view things from the border perspective. really, i mean, not given a chance to any point because you know, each of our personal lives is such a struggle merely to stay afloat anyway. so that was probably the pivotal thing for me, but the book is just always trying to encourage people to zoom out and see the links and see what the root cause is about problems are because where often so kind of lead to just create. so of, you know, a class is like band aid like to our problems and instead of actually tree thing, the real, you know, disease which

a so often leads us back to the profit my most favorite leaves us back to individual ism, to neoliberalism, to this narrative that we're all completely independent of each other, which goes against all, you know, the socio ology and psychology and, and how we sort of grew and evolved as a specie. but when, when you see this kind of overarching structure, your book advocates hope over blind optimism, just explain that concept because it does seem increasingly want to kind of see the cage how much harder to hope in a way. that's why it's so important i think, to make these, these concepts which, you know, most people don't really think about existential risks a day to day basis or like the, the core traits of capitalism. how effects are public health than the how it disrupts our ecology. and so i think encouraging people to gently gain a broader understanding is like that. you know, just the pivotal thing. well, let's talk about at the time to read them because one of the things that was really

interesting that you come back to in your book is about the 2 tools that humanity has its disposal. and there's a really conversation and talking and violence being the other one. again, when you say you're not complete and you think about, well what, what do we have? our disposal is literally, we can communicate with each other or we can use brute force. and that's basically what we have either species and the ways in which we're encouraged to communicate at the moment. so if we look at social media as the main example, you know, that's how we really converse with most people in our lives. definitely with strangers. the ways in which social media are structured kind of lead us not to communicate, but actually the opposite. there's been a lot of research done in as soon as you take away the face and it's just text, we're much more likely to humanize others. and look at social media, you see that of fake news travel 6 times faster than like real concrete kind of

factual base news on twitter. all these ways that are just kind of encouraging us to hostility, encouraging us to violence effectively. so again that's, there's a real structural problem with the ways that we now communicate with each other in the 21st century. and in the book talks on the, the end game of that, which is potential kind of nuclear annihilation. but let's look at the other existential risk of climate change. you said it's kind of talking, seems to be a way to get around that. but we had so many climate summits meetings, the ip cc, we've got the call coming up. even though they're all the summit game on, it does seem like the climate battle is spinning wheel somewhere within government . that huge amount of progress being made. how, how do you, how do you push forward in the arena? as you say, it's been something that we've just we failed, i think like family miserably. i think one of the reasons is because we just

haven't gone to the core of it. we haven't really grabbed a big oil by the bowls and like actually saw it. so in that whole industry out at the moment, it's still heavily subsidized and supported. and if you'd look at the energy industry, it's displaying so much of the behavior that we saw from the tobacco industry as it started to be revealed decades ago. the tobacco causes cause this lung cancer epidemic. they then spend so much money, you know, misleading the public into missed information, lobbying of government, you know, bringing laws that kept their industry safe. there's literally billions every year from the, the big names in, in oil. so we're off against all of that, which is again, if you look at it, it's the profit motive, you know, i don't think really think these people are evil that they've let 3 bad just

protecting their incentives. so i don't think we should demonize these people in the, in a very reductive way, but that evil. awesome, i think again, we actually just have to look at the core motives so, so i have faith, but it means again looking at actual core issues and changing things on a, on a real structural scale. one of the areas that a lot of people pointed to a new point to is kind of youth movements. but again, i keep about to maybe the more pessimistic aspect, the things rebellion processed and now led to the u. k. government cracking down on rights to protest within the u. k. and you mentioned before about fossil fuel lobbying it now, how, what do you say to people who would say that all of this in the face of massive government pushed back massive industry pushed back that there is no hope i

think the yeah, the things that i've given me hope over the years, how have been, especially recently the youth climate mover because the degree of understanding, i think, such an early age. you know, this was not a degree of understand the ide achieved by, you know, when i was way through high school, like it really is different now. but they have grown up in a world feeling completely detached from what has come before them. you know, they see the issues, they see what was gone wrong and i know that targets and i think there's a real real determination and a real passion there. but perhaps was missing from like my generation even. but certainly generations above that fills me with hope because i think these people, the fact that they, you know, this is these a passionate, clever people. they're going to go into these industries and disrupt them from the inside. they're going to go into law and disrupt them. from,

from the law aspects of it, you know, things like being a car side. finally, starting to become considered to be a crime against humanity. that's going to be huge. so i think there's going to be all these ways people attack what has come before and start making real change possible. and just finally i should ask because obviously your tory musician, the government. last time you came on the show, we talked about how the government is maybe undermining some favors more rarefied on the opposite of allies and euro. alas, city richardson, i have you on the response to any of your appeals government or, or how's your opinion changed since that on how that handling the? no, no, it hasn't really changed. i think it's been one of the, the most affected industries by the pandemic. and it's being, i think, one of the least kind of aided and helped. and we haven't seen any like big youth or anything. but again, it's not really sure i think in

a society that to some extent discourage is imagination of course, but i know exactly going to support the house. so it's not something you surprised me and you know, i didn't expect the response but i think was being great as being a communal response from the industries i'm from the, the, the artist and everyone involved. that's been really encouraging. and you know, that's something that, you know, i don't think our government can can take away from us, like, well, good to leave it on an optimistic night, ronald, thank you so much. thanks for having a reynolds. as speaking to going underground jeopardy charlie cook, that's for the show will be back on wednesday to continue our coverage over the 2 year anniversary of the lead up to the us led war in afghanistan with an adviser, the nato, and the former president. that should have gone until then, keep in touch with social media, and let us know what means you support to change the well

ah, me, ah, the develop a new story to tell you about this 6 dest multiple injuries and the shooting, a university in central russia the alleged attack has been to take one student describing to us what he saw, my friends and i was standing at the parking lot near the entrance where gunshot john and sold a shooter in 20 meters with his shotgun. but i suspect was arrested by a single police officer presently you entered the building after you heard about the gun shops. therefore he risked his life to stop demand and he was also fired that soon.