all these potatoes, panels, onions, all of these came from waste ground sources. this is great for me because i'm always looking for a way to give things away. dr. because the tax laws, you know, definitely do benefit the wealthier people and our society. so that makes sense for them to throw it out right off, rather than give it to somebody who could use it. and then that person is not going to buy it. the the with me

i'm action returns here. we're going underground as the 76 session of the united nations general assembly me to new york. i mean, it's the global pandemic of sickness and unparalleled economic inequality coming up in the show. as britain deployed, it's queen elizabeth aircraft carrier towards china. i mentioned nuclear submarine deal with the u. s. an australia failures in u. k. energy security at home have even mainstream media suggesting christmas could be canceled. i probably, or the results of casino capitalism. and we asked the economists to help set the interest rates for the bank of england during the 28th crash about china as possible. lehman moment. and if you cation serve as a warning for other unregulated and privatized energy industries across the neo liberal wealth, all is a more coming up in today's going underground. but 1st is morris johnson flew to new york for today's un general assembly meetings, questions were being raised even in washington about the energy crisis back in britain, arguably even more than the ever grant the property crush that hit the dow jones. so will that really be no turkey for chris?

joining me now from newcastle is steven redman, the ceo of the u. k. energy supply green. thank you so much, steve steven for coming on the show quasi quad thing used to come on this job or johnson government minister. we know it's a british problem because even though the white house, the question was specifically and peculiarly a british energy crisis. i know that there have been some calls in some talks with the government. how do you see the energy crisis as we approach christmas? ultimately, i think, you know, every single day the enterprise guessing was the whole market is increasing day by day. and as much as they are perfect and the crisis describes the entire world due to the breach coming back and it's been marked out in the u. k. i mean quite the quoting bar minisey is talk about what your real capitalism on this program. and i'm sure you've been listening to the british government's position, which is that it's the fault of electricity providers like yourself, presumably who haven't hedged properly and therefore haven't planned properly. and

your entire business model is a full, not british strategic energy security planning. yes. so the rhetoric over the last few days being very much that every small supplier is on the ground and says, whereas, you know, quite a contact protein was on the new thing, you know, around 5 to 8. supply is not unusual. but you know, to make it fall can mean, but, you know, from assembly spice has started yet your, it could be between 5 and can actually make it through, you know, isn't a crisis. you know, it's that walk it, it, if it's such a dramatic change in entire industry. so it's not a problem of gas supply. there's enough gas supply in the market. there is more demand from asia. but in britain, the small companies, green companies like yourselves just can't make money with the regulation involving a price cap for poor families. and the rise in the wholesale gas prices. is that

the situation? yeah, that's correct. with the credit card in place in the current markets, you know, i mean, just how, you know, a lot. you know, if the chief executive of, of jan we see an asset that, you know, it's bad for them to ask supplies just now. and she has a lot of, are you doing nothing about it? you know, supply of gas, you know, you pay us as a country as much less gas storage. and a lot of going to be countries in europe. it's lee and jeremy of much more gas storage. we, which means they can better serve, you know, right out the spicing demography u. k. we are very much at the whim. all you know, global demand. ok. the success of british governments have failed on gas storage off the gym. the british energy regulator. it's surely less harsh on the company is than their equivalent regulators in europe. i mean, the big 6 energy companies that far as the government seems to be favoring are under the, under the caution they buy,

say german regulators who tell you what you can invest in what you can do. whereas green, you have a lot of freedom. i mean, you know, it's different regulation and in place of different things, you know, over the last 18 months and you, spite of all sizes to report off and on a monthly basis about our financial stability series, it's anything that's happening is not commercial price. it regulates for government because we every 5 insurance with them. inaction of our gemini, the government is called this crisis case, not directly by myself. and i mean, you're a young company, maybe you didn't read your call marks. did you don't think that supermarkets in this country, like so many other different industries in this company, they eventually coagulating the big monopoly companies? no matter how the initial theory is, there's going to be a free market of lots of entrepreneurial capitalists. fighting for efficiency, the retro from oscar company just always be switching geez pi. oh,

that's the best way to save money and not driven a lot more likely. and a lot of people in the market can with innovation, new ideas that really help you improve customer service, improve the choice for customers out there and you know, ultimate save money with, you know, i think what we found is that the government is using this opportunity as a market consolidation, where you're going to return back to the cost of the big 6 where they, you know, they will just charge the maximum. they are allowed to charge and only not gonna effect customers in the u. k. with less choice, you know, high costs and you know, it's only going to affect my mind. i know there's a petition out for one ministers resignation. but do you think that for given what you just said, that can be legal avenues in terms of compensation given as you say, for years we've been told to shop online for the best provide it's up to you, the customers work out the best deal. yes, we lost our protection calling for quality content to resign and in less than

a day we've had over at craig market. i think just and we were growing every minute of the down. i get more attraction at ultimate, you know, my comment is something, you know, it's the business that we've actually looking to stifle competition. and ultimately this may end up in the costs. now, of course, newcastle, a long history of trade unionism, you must have family and friends and people, you know, surely telling it when there was icy i nationalized, chemical company producing the fertilizers, helping our food supply industry in this country for turkey's chicken. when there was a british gas nationalized by his own, by the taxpayer, we never seemed to have these problems. we had labor problems, maybe with unions and pay, but we didn't have problems like this. isn't it time to just nationalize all these industries and have a strategic energy security plan? i think that's been the, the plan late late the government for a number of years, not flies or a national energy buyer in that regard. you know,

it was before my time, i think you're wiggled enough before the record station, you know, they were power clips and you know, you know, the top 3 or 4 day working leaks, etc. you know, there is no more supply now more choice for customers, but without security of 5 being at frontier it's, you know, if we go down the road, it may and don't, you know, we back in the sixty's or seventy's. yeah, i mean all the squad tanks that we wouldn't be going back there in fantasy that was actually the work is flexing their industrial might vote for more pay. but as they seem to be talking about bigger companies swallowing up smaller, entrepreneurial ones. why do you think so little focus has been on the geopolitical nature of the companies that are going to succeed. e d, f is one of the big 6 their own by the french government. and some of the other companies involved with foreign governments owning british energy security. this will be an obvious question for a number of yes. can see the point c was announced,

and it's been built by the friends common, but with chinese packing. you know, the pretty prominent team, you know, help and on with your superior call supply and actually, you know, for, for our vendor here you can hobby, but all the comments to, you know, take, take a lead on this, which puts us our risk. now of course, you a media very quick to talk about russia and china are strategic enemies as far as the secret. so his ear and written the talking about how sensible is it? do you think to send our war ship to china and be talking the way we are about countries that are so into connected with our energy security here in britain? yes, i think you know that the mainframe and europe, in the news you got from the, the russian state with no fee to pipeline. ya see, got so much fees and billions of pounds on your pride in gas to europe, and you're all to meet your needs gas off. no way to pick future natalie right across and announce that we've gone to agreement with no way to increase production

book. the whole year and a need thought were, can got european quarter holding. that's where your coping satisfied in the package . yeah. but i mean, do you think it's price we're paying if i don't know, maybe there are people thinking russia and china one to invade britain? well, how do you see the violence here when it comes to britain's strategic goals? yeah, i mean, i think the rhetoric of, you know, trying to trying to, you know, take over the whole country, random's patch to be working. he has been supplying gas to europe in the u. k. fall and number again. and you know, it's, if we have to be agreed to build a pipeline with them in best buy, it's only want to be built and they're looking to insure on that that, you know, this record starts to be started to come out. well, we've often had a lot of criticism currently in the united states and learn from some british politicians that it should never, we should never be depended on it in the 1st place. do you think russia and china laughing about all of this?

obviously, demand is well up in se, asia, for gas. there are lots of lots of demand. yeah, i think, you know, i think the probably laughing at no situation from all of the, you know, the national government across europe and in the u. k. of premium payment with a high cost that, that have a but you know that other countries in europe, in the world are actually take an action with all this. but it seems the comments go ahead still kinda sound on it. and what you expected to hedge with, given you don't have the french governments resources and you know, billions of dollars worth of bonds usually. i mean, do you had john bitcoin, what, what would be the company had john? and do you think you're going to go bust? yes, so you know, small supplies out there, you know, without the lot sheets the big thick. so people back by lock investment bands were billions of pounds. you're not between forward hedging for your fixed customers. and you know how that risk of shorter term and market market. practically,

you have to pay focus and we take a balanced approach where you know and make sure because most we can guarantee the price on the customers with those bad because the free to leave at a moment's notice. so would be, you know, if you could, as opposed to, you know, part of angie 6 months or given fantasy cortisol amongst notice, what do you think some of the companies are to blame for public relations problems? i mean, we have one in for children in poverty and the moaning about a price caps or the poorest in this country can have energy, may not be the best strategy part of the cop call. to be sure, i don't think it just come on to increase in price. got the solution. you know, that's why we are called me for the helps and help try and regulate the price is trying support for support for interest spice during this time. you know, the last thing we want and any interest by, wanted to increase the price of people in the u. k. where, you know,

universal credit or political, we moved the end of palo and you know, it's a very, very tough time for people in the u. k, you know, i don't think many spiker out that, you know, well, the actual big picture is now on the call. they were calling to increase and actually, you know, we want to ask action from the government help support the market itself. so there's no shortage of gas. you want to green electricity. what power do you think the big 6? which way become the only 6 electricity providers of this country? what power are they going to have against policies aimed at curbing climate change? and civilizational collapse. i think if what is looking to happen to happen and, you know, the market does, you know we've got back to that, you know, cost of that they say maybe a couple of holes is they're going to hold the power with off jim. they're going to hold the power with government because despite such a lot extension because my base but in the u. k. and they'll be able to go talk and

go to common anaki in our policies, in their best interest, not in the best interests of climate change, all consumers government and off the gym. the regulator obviously would deny that, but not a, not a good look for comp 26 in glasgow. and if you extend no, no off stopping in november, it's you know, the situation that you paid by then could be drastically working is now when we are in a crisis now. so by then you're able almost to be apocalyptic. even read, man, thank you. thank you very much for having me after the break. as global capitalism, weights on the chinese communist party is response to the ever granted crisis. we talk to a man who help sets british interest rates for the bank of england by the perfect storm of lobby leaders and death. all of them all coming up and bought 2 of going underground

were told the new strategic alliance, comprising the united states, the united kingdom and australia is not directed against china. but of course, it is. washington is about numerous alliances against asian, but arcos as a new killer dimension tensions arising in the pacific. and no doubt china will react the welcome back and one we spoke to a small u. k. energy supplier about the possibility of wholesale re nationalization of britain's energy security. but now to the economic fall as of the crisis and what it means rather privatized and unregulated sectors across the liberal nations. i've joined now by david blanch flower economist and form a member of the bank of england interest rates, setting monetary policy committee from 26 to 29. thanks so much for coming back on a course that year. those years, including the 28th crisis. i mean, before we get to your favorite prime minister of recent times where it's johnson,

who's in new york, addressing the un, is the whole world about to collapse because of ever granted. or do we even know whether a property firm into connected and into linked to so much of global capitalism poses that risk? well, i think it probably poses the risk. i mean that you're quite right. we don't exactly know. i mean, what, what, what, what expect is going on and whether the chinese government is going to let this happen. but when you see headlines like china's layman brothers, you have to be concerned. i mean, that, that has the potential of a major impact. i mean, the question is, are people going to make an error? i mean that, in a sense, you can't allow something that large to fail. the world is waiting and watching. i think it's pretty concerning. and obviously is it's have an impact around the world where it's going to go. we will see that the, the danger is that the chinese government makes an error just by the united states did, and allowed layman brothers to fight. i mean,

the story layman brothers actually was on the day that i think bailed it was basically insolvent. but the central bank in the united states had 6 months or so where it could have stepped into the folk. so that's really the story will take a long time to thought this out. now where at a crisis probably should have done something a while ago, but i think the world has to wait and watch and the risk to our overstate that the downside or it could be strategic. you're right. i mean, the financial press in the west is talking about this. we know the chinese communist party is saying they need to rein in the excesses of some people call it late capitalism. could this be some form of engineer crisis? well, i don't know it's, i mean i'm gonna call them it's the last thing really one should do is speculate this thing. we should wait and walk and beacon this is a downside risk, the global g d p. i mean, if it's strategic and presumably everybody in such a situation, everybody lives in the chinese. so that would be consistent with my view. that

would be a major error. i mean, when we see the headlines about the energy security crisis focused on britain, and we know that there's a reliance on russian gas for supply. when we know that china is so into linked to the global economy and bar jones, the sort of an aircraft carrier to the maritime borders is economics and geo politics become de linked. no, i don't think it has. i mean, i think if you go back, i remember gordon brown book said the, well, what we all tried to do is simulate what would happen if a single bank failed. we hadn't really realized what would the consequences of a global collapse a collapse in the global banking system. so i think the reality we learned from 2008 the, everything's kinda linked together. hard to believe that, you know, these global force is a separate. so, you know, even before 2 and a half before then surely you know what i look,

it sounds crazy. i tell my dog students, i don't, the 2nd biggest dartmouth club is actually in the city of london. and they used to come and talk to me, and i realized that all of the students that i've had over the years working in the same banks, the other dartmouth students will work in any wall street. literally, i like that. they want to have a way, how can this be gotten? government came and the us, the, i thought to myself, if there's a global financial financial crisis in the united states and all the same banks in the city of london and in frank. but how can it possibly be confined to the u. k. so that was probably one of the probably the most stupid thing. he ever sort of a very many stupid things. he said, i mean the bag and the whole day and your old cali being promoted now. for this country, a country where one in for children are in poverty, according to some statistics. leveling up local government has been abolished from a department here in white will ever be terribly happy about that. that's very

exciting. and when the government, in a sense by 2010, by doing it still staring, and pushing monetary policy to the bank, being that essentially van band regional policy. right? because if you say the bank of what's driving driving economics, you 7 interest rate, and that's the same for everybody. so now you set up a leveling up deposit, which i think is laughable joke. let's just think about what the world bank has been trying to do since 950. it's been trying to level up african countries and poor countries around the world and hasn't achieved it, but never fear. and the hell they are going to change this in 6 months. they have no agenda, they know told us what they go. and it's unclear if there's any budget to do that. so laugh more laugh. really the nothing here. i have no idea how you intended to level off the 50 constituencies that you told the voted. tory had been labor

conspicuous. it wanted to go to breakfast and now you said it's going to be great. well, i suspect what you're going to say is not going to be great. they probably can't do anything. i mean go flop and mirror. so i'm to singly unimpressed leveling up. what are your, the department of the loop l, you mean come all this is really, really pathetic while we invite them the whole day and on your former bank of england colleague, i guess he was, i mean, obviously the she said that the chancellor here and others pointing to the fact that we're seeing inflationary pressure in the economy on, on pay and inflation statistics. but i know you've been costing down on the peculiarity of inflation in i know you work on site me. right. i mean, the reality is, i like to use the analogy. if a hurricane gets an island, i mean, i have a house and i'm going to twist is what happens. and the answer is, well,

community cut off the price. if the price is the price of a plumber to come into the house, i thought the roof out right? the, the temporary shocks apart and pot and also of an adjustment to a damage shock. the central bank should sit back and watch and wait and work out. you know what the virus is going to be, what the fac things are going to do? what long changes in behavior that are off? it's kind of uncomfortable to people. but one of the things that we've learned is that the price of certain goods goes up to the traffic example of timber. the price of timber rose like mad. and then people realize, well, ok, i'll put off by him. i don't have to do to be, i way put, i don't have to build it. and basically the price. if jim went up by bought it back where it was before. similarly in the late the day, the price of 2nd home calls in the u. k. 19 percent. so how do you avoid this inflation shot? you don't buy it, put off buying your 2nd call until prices have come down. so i think the answer is

these are temporary shocks, but obviously this is the people are being hurt. and this is a company, a spend increases in natural insurance, which isn't a tax on people we're seeing removal of some of the benefits that were placed that during the pandemic. so basically just like in 2010 here, the tory government goes again pulling in, i'll spare with the soak up the trying to her for people with going to do and then it says we're going to level you up the worry in doncaster. and then darlington and other places as well, you go, this is an attempt, once again, to low, the living standard, the core, and the low paid. that's why would i mean, you know, the re road to hell, maybe paved with good intentions? why would they be doing that? i mean, for i to national view is we'll have to tell them that they, there was a plan here much loaded by some of these for jobs and trying to address the aging

population. but wants to pay for if using national insurance, which is type of tax, which is free and is cutting universal credit on the payment over the words. so this is to think of taxes generally, you specify them as being regressive. a program is the question is, who pays for the burden of the tax? so you look back in 2010 and you say it was clearly the 4 people that but caused the great recession. so we have to impose asperity and cut back spending on swimming pools in libraries and single mothers with that. so now what you're doing here is just saying we need to now go back. we did pretty well. we put money out to help people to help unemployed people to help people. now what we're going to do is we're going to raise the tax on work and it's disproportionate impact both on low income and then you take away universal credit that impacts poor people. so what you've done, if you say ok, so now we're going to pay for it. we're going to pay for it by attracting the pool

so that we can subsidize the rich, you done pretty well. and so that looks regressive again, it's once again back to everyone, 2010, and what it did in 2010, let's put this in context. and i, for any of us, be with people about this. basically what 2010 did with it produced the slowest recovery in the u. k. in 300 years, seconds of the south, the bubble, and then the worst one, looking back with the black death. so this, this is why we expect thoroughly, but this will lower output rate on employment, lower living standards, and we'll precisely level down the places that are most vulnerable. so you have a leveling up department is going to be going down through other parts of the government. this is, this is politically, looks to me to be a dangerous course of action. so is this brutal cruelty if it's also going to damage the economy at large and enrich the wealthiest people in this country using birth. thompson is aware of this, or is aware of this new lobby either by the conscious to do that and

raise the taxes on the floor, lower the living standards of the pool or, or, you know, in the living stand to the point. you don't realize that, i mean that's what they're doing. taken away, you have as a credit, taking people at the low end, giving them a higher tax on making rich work lower. so how, how we started out the conversation with leveling up. but your wife being widened, inequality leveling out to me, suggest we're going to narrow inequality. we're going to narrow inequality between rich places and poor places. so if you, on the one hand, you set up with a leveling up with no budget where the money goes, you level down on the net, this is a leveling down. i don't see any other way. well, the government deny brutality and cruelty the 6000000 universal credit people. obviously they're facing up to this cut coming up. i mean, it's not only britain, though, the 1st scale back quantitative easing during the crisis appears to be the europe

and central bank. worried about inflation, what do you make the most amazing. let's look back to 2011. they were the 1st 2 banks that actually decided to raise rate in 2000. i think sweet, sweet. and on the set the european center back rate together. we look back now and realize that in the last decade was probably the biggest macro mistake that we've seen. i mean, we'll see that the fed meeting today and tomorrow, and various talk there about whether they will start to scale things back. if the right answer all of this is that we don't know the right thing to do is to wait and watch and be prepared for risk. but the downside, i'm the shock to inflation of temporary going to disappear. but to actually think, you know, enough to say we can pull back on quantitative, easy, and reduce stimulus. seems to me to be again a mistake. and very briefly, you don't think the meeting this week with the bank of england. that then are going to decide on a rate rise, they're not going to $11.00?

no, no, there's no chance they'll do the maybe some discussion about what, what would i do? i think i would, i would not be voted for any change, but i'd be prepared to have my handful bring on a on a buzzer. trying to actually think about what happens if the economy slows, especially when the fiscal folks, we've talked about. i going to stop to remove stimulus. so what happened in 2008 white 11 of the bank of england was unable to raise rates for a decade was because you pull back physically. so that meant the monetary forces had to do more. so as the central, as chancellor is raising taxes on the pool, that might mean actually the next move in the other direction. you have to do more, maybe you take rates negative, but these 2, these things that coordinated together. and i think again, the risk continued to because of that a bunch of thank you. that's it for the show will be back on the eve of germany. elections, where debates around the russia will stream to pipeline and climate catastrophe

made it a flash point for europe's energy future until then keep in touch by social media and let us know if you think energy security is a matter of national security. ah, ah ah, me the news the who's

ah, we are not seeking new cold war. all of the major powers of the world have a duty in my view to carefully manage their relationships. so it's joe biden, promot global cooperation of the big un general assembly. the french president canceled his speech there amid a growing diplomatic spot where the white ties elsewhere, despite reco energy prices and a huge short fallen supply. the block is slapping, finds this time on poland using coal and is also blaming russia for the crisis.