cheever's, but there is a way don't allow more than 2 terms. then you get a completely different type of person who doesn't run off to the mainstream. do we have to leave the to the next generation so that it is still beautiful, but the methods are different than the green c climate policy as a religion, as a belief that what you do once you've decided but if it is decided there will be electric cars then they will only be electric cars. that is wrong because you have to approach a big problem with an open mind. new things will be invented. it's a mistakes focused on the electric car because 90 percent of the world's population cannot afford an electric car. for countries don't have that and we need a solution for these countries. face been known for they take now nothing is happening, nothing more is coming. they no longer have any solutions. when a problem comes up,

they span the looking at each other and don't know what to do. i've talked to leaders for years, auditions in the federal government telling them that these wars are wrong and that they are misinformed. people are not, but are often gonna stop still as badly off as they were 20 years ago under merkel . you were in danger of being kicked out of the christian democratic union party because you are against was mrs. mark like others has govern football too long? nothing has happened in the last 8 years from mrs. marco's point of view, there is nothing more to be achieved. she was never a real cd. you leader, the field. that it so far, we're talking more about what's happening in germany over the weekend. of course, really great coverage for that was kevin in signing off the sound like shevardnadze latest guess. she's here after a short break international. ah,

the ah no welcome to so if you go visionaries me shevardnadze digital art is rapidly grabbing the attention of not only tak enthusiasts, but also venerable auction houses in decrypt art. crazy bubble high by the panoramic or is it real and it's here to stay. while i talk to one of the top 3 most valuable artists of today, mike, when cool, man, i got people. digital art is mike winkleman. i can people, great. have you with us, mike. it's been ro to. i got you to talk to me, but i'm happy that you're here. i'm happy to be here as well. all right, so in march, kristen sold your work for almost $70000000.00 and become like the 1st purely

digital work of art ever gone under the hammer and a major auction house. these made you certain most expensive living artist in the world. i mean, yet you don't like the term artist deeming it too pretentious, but really, why i don't know. do you find it if somebody of you like of where like out or something and somebody was like an artist, but you kind of thing. but you, when you kind of find it a little pretentious, maybe i all grade are all grade professionals have that like charlatan syndrome where like they don't want to be called what they are, but it's actually a good thing i think now would be be yeah, i'm coming around to it, i guess. yeah, i mean if i sold my digital word for a 70000000, i'll become around real quick. i'll tell you that much and how it does not hurt.

ready like, honestly speaking, it was your tremendous success at christie's and when i 1st heard about and of tease and everybody's been talking about them. since then, can you explain for our audience in like really simple terms, what is and non fungible token? it's basically a digital proof of ownership and that ownership can be over a bunch of different virtual things. in my case, it was digital art which before this there was no way that there was no way to. ready like, truly prove that you are the owner of this piece of artwork that i've made. and this is work that i've made over the last 20 years. the everyday needs to call the christie that was made over the last 13 years. but it did the work that myself and literally tens of thousands did not hundreds of thousands of artists have been making over the time. and there was no way to really sort of so that's what i did

for what i did. but and i t's are broader than that. it's really just proof of ownership. so it can be applied, you know, will be a bunch of things from concert tickets to. ready property to your car, like there's a bunch of different things that eventually ask news. well, well, most likely be used to sort of like transact, right, right. so if this is some sort of like a digital code from what i understand that is unique and, and all these major piece of digital art to which, if this code is designed practically affordable or, and for you and really, exactly, you would have to sort of like if the strong as the block chain, but right now nobody's been able to sort of walk jane. there's not, you're not getting people sort of you know, being able to create that point. and so it's really the same sort of like, underlying technology. so yeah, definitely by far the strongest sort of authentication we have as

a sort of like species, i get some very practical person and i'm thinking can and if t be used as a collateral, i like a physical piece of art. yeah. and a lot of the work that i do because i feel like that's a big part of that is you're going to view the art somewhere. and so you're going to view it on a phone or tablet and me, that's not really that interesting. so the pieces that i've done in the, in the past few months here have all have like a physical sort of like little digital sort of video brain that they come with. even just sort of putting your how to sort of be like any other piece of are it's something that you just sort of tacitly enjoy and it's just like anything on the wall. it's just kind of in your how in your environment all the time. and i feel like you're going to start seeing that more and more with digital are coming into the home and being just like any other piece are you know, earlier this year i've heard hacker are still digital artwork or

a thousands of dollars from one of the biggest set of t marketplaces. does that mean that despite all of these, like crypt logs, hackers will still find their way around? so the way that they did, i know the way that happened is they told people passwords tend to be old fashioned way and, and they just log in with their password. so it's one of the things where we get point and in terms of keeping our information, they've been keeping their stuff out of hackers and you know, everywhere because that's the thing. when you get hacked like they can get into anything. so they were using sort of real credentials that you know, they had gotten do others i still can get at around the following. what's the point of buying a file for the price of the monet? if it's still up for display in your instagram and absolutely everyone can enjoy copy free. yep. 100 percent and that's the thing that i think is one of the hardest

thing for people to get their head around does. and i tease are not about restricting at that, but that's actually a really good thing because the great thing about it being available to everybody think a bit more like a public new artwork. again, anybody in the world can view for free. that's not the case with that moment. you have to go to a very specific museum. so it's very different, and that's the thing that i think would actually be a huge benefit or not wrapping back with an app. but isn't it the whole point of paying so much money for an art piece is that, you know, you can choose who sees it or not, or like, know and say that more people who are more popular become valuable. so you really do not want to refer back to you want everybody to see it and everybody does it. the most popular image in the world,

it will probably be most valuable. so i, let's say if a rembrandt got stolen from a museum or destroyed by vandals, it's gone, it can be lost forever. nothing can ever happen to a digital piece. that's not true. and that's not true. so you could transfer this like into a wallet, and then you could move control about all it. and that happened with people a big point. they had their money in like our like physical sort of device. they forgot the password to the bite and thought nobody will ever get it. and so, again, it's been me, things like they and sort of, you know, under control. so it's not again a 100 percent infallible. but i mean, you still have a copy. you have a copy, you will have the copy, but you don't have the original sort of, but yes, you have a copy of that, which again is, is another sort of benefit of digital artwork over sort of like the bar. we're

going back, it's burn, it's gone, you know, we'll have the images of it, but we don't have that sort of original thing, but it sort of might live on and i look at it as being able to pay different physical forms over time. so like the $5000.00 days that, you know, if christy's back could be turned into, you know, a giant brand, it could be turned into a projection, it could be turned into a bunch of tv screens with, you know, an animated version of it. it can sort of live in the real world in a bunch of different forms and still have that like, you know, native digital form that's like on changing and sort of tied to the block in here. i mean, i'm a very tactile person and there is something very kinaesthetic about possessing physical arts because he can judge the same thing that the great artists have touched and done and you see the same thing. they so, and you own it,

nothing like this is possible with digital art. so by buying do you see the basically by like the copyright rather than the most similar to you by saying, you know, i'm on a or whatever this or that i don't know about. but if you buy anything, you're not on the right. it's probably as well that you do not own the copyright you just on that. and so it's very similar to that in terms of most, most teeth. some are starting to sort of, you know, wonder that because again, you can sort of program anything well and so some people are starting at the right . so that might be a thing that are standard. but here we out. i mean, there's still lake, something less glamorous when they are worth i bought a christ is a actually my phone, people like owning things, right. owning softer is also great. it's just not the same as owning stuff,

right. will owning a file be less attractive option for let's say, art collectors and owning like musical pays just because of that when that's where i and that's where again, i putting them all the stuff that i've done recently because i do feel like that is a big sort of like, if you want to like see that thing. i don't know whether that will become standard in the future. there's definitely a lot of what i, what i will say, it does do a decrease friction of because if you have a purely digital thing for this physical thing attached to it, you kind of have to sort of ship it to the next person. so there is some, some drawback, you know, having difficult bonds to these things. but to me i think it's outweighed, in that, you know, you're able to experience that. then again, like you said, people are want to see something that represents the thing that they, in many cases a lot of money or that they can kind of show off. and i think it's

a better way or the physical culture and the physical screen. the thing come in, that's a piece of the art or it's designed very much for the artwork, the digital artwork. and so i agree, i think having a physical component to me is very important. i think i can see both sides. yeah. also because in a physical world like you can see the craft too, you can actually, you can say like, oh my god, this isn't amazing math master without even knowing who that is. and he said, this is crap. you know, like a 5 year old can do that. when i look at your like, you have this static about them, they're edgy and also times with commentary. beautiful can sending messages. they want to see a cat man going for $600000.00. i'm thinking has a will go crazy. i mean, i think it has, again, you know,

line between good art and bad art even exist in the digital were rare old. so i guess i personally don't look at that as art, per se. i would look at it as sort of like a collapsible, and it's not a collectible sort of like internet culture. again, because that image became very, very popular. bath. why it has that value? exactly, sort of, kind of what i was saying for there is nothing great about that image. it just became very, very popular and was used in a 1000000000 thing, the toys, seizure, video games and whatever. and everything tv shows, you know, it became worth $600000.00 because many people knew about it. and i think, yeah, now this is a piece of like culture and a piece of the like internet history. ringback and so i look at those, the sort of like a little different from some sort of my digital art, more like a baseball card. i think a baseball card or sort of like the answer mike,

we're going to take a short break right now and we're back. we'll continue talking to mike winkleman aca. people stay with us, the ah, ah look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings except when the shorter the conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. the point obviously is to great truck rather than fear i would take on various jobs with artificial intelligence,

real summoning the theme in a robot must protect its own existence, was the awe and we're back when mike winkleman, aca beeble mike. so even though like the end of t is hale is like the new big thing, right. and though our power houses like christie's consolidate there on board with promoting and digital art, there is still a lot of skepticism about it and you know it in the traditional role, this sounds like an empty blog chain. business is very dodgy. others question. the

artistic valley of crypto art does all that affect you? oh yes, definitely. i would say it. it would be sort of nice to be like yeah, but i don't know about that or where. so yeah, i definitely think, but i think it's something that i'm, the people come around very quickly be quite honest. and i think as people come to know more about this, because the worlds were just buried, that my digital art world was know nothing of the traditional world and the traditional world, nothing. and so it is, it's only been a couple months you know what i mean, and it's sort of like our history and how long needs are been all. busy been understand what happened and sort of, you know, what's going on. i think it's very quick, but i think people sort of from iraq but very, very quickly. and so i think it's going to be sort of assimilated into the broader

conversation of fine art very quickly to be ok. so you've aimlessly sad that crazy that the end of t digital art created is a bubble. when 1st, are you saying that like that was a little out of time is more so i think it's going to go up and down. just like again you look at it didn't go straight up. it went up and then the way down and went down like 80 percent, and then it came way back up. and so i think you're going to see that things happen within a piece. it's one of the things we're going to go through. but if the technology itself is sort of simple, just proving digital ownership, i don't see that going away. i see that just being more and more useful and, and sort of being able to apply to a bunch of different spaces over time. and i think digital art again will continue to be sort of like them later into the regular conversation of art. so you'll be

a selection of sort of, you know, all have their stuff retained over time. but just like a lot of traditional art, not all of it sort of retains value over time. so you do need to be sort of, you know, very cognitive of what you're buying. because just because some things then as he just like look like website, it's very analogous to like the early wrap. just because you make a web page doesn't mean it has any value. and it just thing because you make something and doesn't magically give it a value just needed to put it on watching your work gets reviews from art experts and appraisals for celebrated modern art is, i mean i've heard, they mean hurst. he got a guy. yeah. he's like, impress after his teenage son showed him your work on instagram. so to me, this is the essence, you know, the glory of the digital art. it is grabbing the attention of instagram and take talk res, tech savvy,

young people. do you have you digital art as an ard for the new generation? ah, to be honest. yeah. and i've actually talked to daniel, you really like understand that and get that. and he actually just did an ascii project just recently, which was super gone, but i, it's one of the things where i do think the younger generation 1st. and i think it will be something that, you know, sort of older people will get. i'm 40 myself, i'm not like super young. and so it's, it's one of the things where i think they're just more used to sort of a virtual ownership in their virtual sort of like now. and so i don't think the huge stretch for them to sort of take into like understand and internalize sort of digital ownership. and so i think also it a lot of the culture of the work that i do specifically and many other digital

artists very much speak to like the internet and the language of how the people sort of make money and, and also, you know, just sort of exist you know, what i see is people buying crypto art for crypt, a currency and i'm thinking 10 years ago. something like that that would have been a fantasy. is what art partridge now is going to look like? i think has done it well not, not really. i think yes and no i think it's going to. ready be sort of divorced from crypto very again, and he's like they should all be able to pass. it doesn't really have anything to do it. prepped out. it's just the sort of underlying watching technology they both use, but it doesn't really have anything to do with pointer area. you know, it should be able to be and it will be able to box everything regular credit cards

. but at the same time, it does your point of patronage sort of remove the middle man. and because people are able to go directly to their back instead of happening to go over a gallery are happening even, you know, sort of like an auction house. and they're able to much more easily sort of directly connect to, to, you know, the following. and they bills online. you know, the art market is like a finicky thing, right? m, r doesn't only exist for our dealers. people need to seed. do you see a future for digital art and digital art exhibits? yeah. 100 percent. i think you're going to see that if i think, you know, again, it's for me then on here. so the sort of, you know, with museums, they're usually banning show about 2 years in advance. and obviously with call that everything got super messed up, and most museums aren't even open. but i think it's something you're going to be

very quickly is exhibit. and i think there again, there's the math of benefit of you could have the same piece of our 5 museums at one time. that's not the case. the traditional art, one painting. it's got to move around all these places, crated up to the next place. digital art is able to sort of like in multiple places at one time and sort of be able to be reached by a bigger community. but i guess my question there would be would be art exhibits to digital realm, like instagram or something. we'll dilute the important so far. what i'm saying is i going to take to see rothko is an experience in self, and i feel that are sort of thing does create a richer context for art perception. internet doesn't like attention focus, you know, that's true. that is very definitely, you know, when you go and see something in person and you take the time to be there

and have a much more obvious, singular experience like that. that was very much, you know, toys and had a cough. because again, the games are not free and it costs and especially the like the family, it can be quite expensive. it's one of these things where most people don't have that opportunity. and so it's sort of like a baking on mine and well, i'm not a there, my choice is not the, the roscoe or the, you know, a version online of course they're going to and so just by peer numbers, most people will the thing online versus seeing it in, in service space. and so i think just kind of recognizing it is what it is in terms of that. and that's a good thing because again, that kid in indonesia couldn't see it at all. if it wasn't for the internet, you really know what it is. and so i think that that again is something that is

everything the trade off with digital art and sort of visible presence and not having it. but i think there's definitely a benefits that, you know, think being burge, on being able to be accessible all over the world. so when you create for a small screen because you know, we all use small screens, most of the time these days, do you feel limited by that or, or expression? there are absolutely limitations. like for instance, most of the, the vast majority of the pictures that i create are portrait because that sort of instagram, you know, what they like the size they like or whatever that aspect ratio. and so i do that, but i kind of look at that stuff as not like a negative having limitations. i always get that sort of a positive because they give you a framework around to build something that it just totally blows guy make anything . so i actually view that sort of thing to be honest, but it absolutely is a,

you know, if you want to be able to sort of succeed and the social media landscape, it is something that you do honestly need to take into account sort of, you know, roles and sort of like, you know, metrics and ways to format your work. tablet, seen by a bunch of people in your mind, a competition of sorta been to in the digital and non digital art at all or are they to math is going to exist in parallel without affecting each other at all? no, i think there, i don't think it's a competition because this is another art form just like it's not really a competition between teaching impulse or just to things like that. and i also don't think they're going to like exist in parallel. i think they're going to be intertwined very much in the future and i think be quite honest in the future. i think all painting haven't and it will just be

a proof of ownership just to sort of trap after blocked it. and it won't be something bad, you know, sometimes it will add a lot of value. and sometimes they want to have much they'll, you know, it's literally, you know, a piece of paper that basically, you know, the problem for the piece. and so i think the 2 worlds are going to merge, and i think you're going to see more digital artist, you coming into the much like my bell never pictured myself make making physical or now that's, you know, a huge part of what i do. so i think you're going to see a bunch of people coming over like that. and i think you're going to see a bunch of the traditional art people embracing the digital technology. damian, her they go. educational are person coming into the, at the and a few words i think you're going to see both, you know, both of them just mix together in it and just be another are form just like graffiti, or street art or, or sort of, you know, painting sculptures whatever, i think it's going to be another one. all right, thanks

a lot for this wonderful insight into the world of of t. i wish you all the best of luck with all your future endeavors. it's been great . thank you so much. i would very much appreciate it. thanks a lot. take care and i hope we meet in person. one of them are we good here. we're perfect. have a great day. bye bye. the man cost him all the search and focus bittman ball here. but me, o, o, o

i o god, give me ah, i understand. i owe right now there are 2000000000 people who are overweight or obese. it's profitable to sell food that is pricey and sugary and faulty and addicted not at the individual level. it's not individual willpower, and if we go on believing that will never change as obesity epidemic,

that industry has been influencing very deeply. the medical and scientific establishment, ah, what's driving the make its corporate me ah disgrace european law. mike has condemn spain and the you today then over the rest of katlyn, the separate his lead. a colleague pushed him all in italy for almost 4 years on the run. hundreds take streets, slona, dividing his release as you can see, protest in the schools and medical facilities now. but critics called by an infringement of civil liberties. less than a year after coming to office, jo biden's approval ratings slump following a rafter, questionable.