those that you can convert into can quite easily keep in mind that to me, to inflation watch, guys reported ah, working machine. she popped in. she said, well, i'm getting ready to go shopping for christmas. and we recycle by. there was a group device, another shooting, another safe part of american life shattered by violence. the gunman was armed with an a ar 15, semi automatic rifle. when the issue comes home, it's time to act when we're filing on this issues, the other side wind by default, lady that lived over there. i was walking one of the dogs, which is why do you where again, were you scared? that's and i took it off and i think the people need to take responsibility in their own hands and be prepared if those kinds of weapons were less available. we

wouldn't have a lot of shootings and we certainly wouldn't have the number that i know they didn't take into account one thing for their own capabilities. i knew i didn't want to face the truth if you will. you lots and the truth is that the u. s . is no longer capable of playing the role of global hagaman. i mean the role which had had assigned to itself. we're glad to do more with the ah no welcome to so if you go visionaries,

me. so shevardnadze digital art is rapidly grabbing the attention of not only tak enthusiasts, but also literal auction houses in decrypt art crazy bubble high by the pandemic. or is it real and it's here to stay. while i talk to one of the top 3 most valuable artist of today, mike, when cool, man, i got people. digital art is mike winkleman. i can people great. have you with us, mike. it's been ro to i got you to talk to me, but i'm happy that you're here. i'm happy to be here as well. all right, so in march, kristen sold your work for almost $70000000.00 and become like the 1st purely digital work of art ever gone under the hammer and a major auction house. these made you 3rd most expensive living artists in the world. i mean, yet you don't like the term artist deeming it too pretentious,

but really why i don't know if you find it. if somebody of you like of were like out already or something and somebody was like an artist, but you kind of thing. but you and then just kind of find it, a little pretentious, maybe i all and all grade professionals have that like charlatan syndrome where like they don't want to be called what they are, but it's actually a good thing. i think now be, be yeah, i'm coming around to it, i guess. yeah, i mean, if i sold my digital word for 70000000, i'll become around real quick. i'll tell you that much. and how it does not hurt like that. honestly speaking, it was your tremendous success at christie's and when i 1st heard about and of tease and everybody's been talking about them. since then, can you explain for our audience in like really simple terms,

what is and non fungible token? it's basically a digital proof of ownership and that ownership can be over a bunch of different virtual things. in my case, it was digital art which before this there was no way that there was no way to. ready like, truly prove that you are the owner of this piece of artwork that i've made. and this is work that i've made over the last 20 years. the everyday needs to call the christie that was made over the last 13 years. but it worked at myself and literally tens of thousands did not hundreds of thousands of artists have been making over the time. and there was no way to really sort of so back what you did for what i did. but and i are broader than that. it's really just proof of ownership, so it can be a bite, you know, will be a bunch of things from concert tickets to property, to your car. like there's

a bunch of different things that eventually ask news will most likely be used to sort of like transact, right, right. so if this is some sort of like a digital code from what i understand that is unique and, and all these major piece of digital art to which this code is designed practically affordable or, and for really read exactly. you would have to sort of like if the strong as the block chain. but right now nobody's been able to sort of passed the block jane. there's not, you're not seeing people sort of, you know, being able to create point. and so it's really the same sort of like, underlying technology. so yeah, i definitely, by far the strongest sort of authentication, you know, we have sort of like species, i get some very practical person and i'm thinking can and if t be used as a collateral, like a physical piece of art. yeah. and a lot of the work that i do on it because i feel like that's

a big part of this is you're going to view the art somewhere. and so either you're going to view it on a phone or tablet and me that's not really that interesting. so the pieces that i've done in the past few months here have all have like a physical sort of like little digital sort of video brain that they come with. you can just sort of put in your how to sort of be like any other piece of our it's something that you just sort of tacitly enjoy and it's just like anything i was just kind of in your how in your environment all the time. and i feel like you're going to start seeing that more and more with digital art coming into the home and be just like any other piece are you know, earlier this year i've heard hacker are still digital artwork or a thousands of dollars from one of the biggest of t marketplaces. does that mean that despite all of these like crypt logs, hackers will still find their way around? so the way that they did, i know the way that happened is they told people passwords tend to be old fashioned

way, and then they just log in with their password. so it's one of the things where we get point and in terms of keeping our information, say, keeping their stuff out of hackers and you know, everywhere because that's the thing. when you get hacked, like they can get into let anything happen. so they were using sort of real credentials that you know, they had gotten to other i still can get at around the following. what's the point of buying a file for the price of the monet? if it's still up for display in your instagram and absolutely everyone can enjoy copy free. yeah. 100 percent and that's the thing that i think is one of the hardest thing for people to get there around. because an a t 's are not about restricting, but that's actually a really good thing because the great thing about it being available to everybody

think a bit more like a new deal that they are than anybody in the world can view for free. that's not the case with that monet. you have to go to a very specific museum. so it's very different, and that's the thing that i think would actually be a huge benefit or not wrapping with an ascii. but isn't it the whole point of paying so much money for an art piece is that, you know, you can choose who sees it or not, or like, know and say that more people who are more popular become valuable. so you really do not want to refer back to you want everybody to see it and everybody does it. the most popular image in the world, it will probably be most valuable. so i, let's say if a rembrandt got stolen from a museum or destroyed by vandals, it's gone, it can be lost forever. nothing can ever happen to

a digital piece. that's not true. that's not true. so you could transfer this like into a wallet, and then you could move control about all it. and that happened with people a big point. they had their money in like our like, you know, physical sort of like the by bit forgot the password to the bite and thought nobody will ever get. and so again, it's been me, things like they and sort of, you know, under control. so it's not again a 100 percent in but i mean, you still have a copy, you have a copy, you will have the copy, but you don't have the original sort of. but yes, you have a copy of that, which again, is, is another sort of benefit of digital artwork over sort of this bar work that run back gets burned. it's gone. you know, we'll have the images of it, but we don't have that sort of original thing, but it sort of can,

might live on. and i look at it as being able to pay different physical forms over time. so like the 5000 days that you know, christie's back to be turned into, you know, a giant brand, it could be turned into a protection. it could be turned into a bunch of tv screens with, you know, an animated version of it. it can sort of live in the real world in a bunch of different forms and still have that like, you know, native digital form that's like unchanging and sort of tied to the block in here. i mean, i'm a very tactile person and there is something very kinaesthetic about possessing physical arts because you can judge the same thing that the great artists have touched and done and you see the same thing. they so, and you own it, nothing like this is possible with digital art. so by buying do you see the basically by like the copyright rather than the last time you denied it, similar to you by facing you know, i'm on

a or whatever this of that i don't know about when they, but if you buy a painting, do not own copyright, it's probably that you do not own the copyright you just on that. and so it's very similar to that in terms of most, most teeth summer starting to sort of, you know, and that one to that because again, you can sort of program anything. wow. and so some people are starting then after, right, so that might be a thing that are standard. but here we out. i mean there's still lake, something less glamorous when they aren't worth i bought a christ is, is actually my phone. people like owning things, right. owning software or ease is also great. it's just not the same as owning stuff, right? we'll owning a file be less attractive option for let's say, art collectors and owning like it's musical, pays just because of that. when that's where i and that's where again,

i put in all the stuff that i've done recently because i do feel like that is a big sort of like if you want to i see that thing. i don't know whether that will become standard in the future. there's definitely a lot of what i, what i will say it does is it creates friction because if you have a purely digital thing for that 1st, you know, this physical thing attached to it. you have to sort of ship it to an act person. so there is some, some drawback, you know, having difficult bonds to these things. but to me i think it's outweighed, in that, you know, you're able to experience that. and again, that people are want to be something that represents, you know, the thing that they, in many cases, a lot of money more that they can kind of show off. and i think it's a better way to be or the physical culture and the physical screen, the d think come in, that's

a piece of the art or it's designed very much for the artwork, the digital artwork. and so i agree, i think having a physical on it to me is very important. i think i can see both sides. yeah. also because in a physical world like you can see the craft too, you can actually, you can say, oh my god, this is an amazing math master without even knowing who that is. and he said, this is crap. you know, like a 5 year old can do that. well, when i look at your like your static about them, they're edgy and also times with commentary. beautiful can sending messages. they want to see a cat man going for $600000.00. i'm thinking has it will go crazy. i mean, i think it hasn't. again, you know, line between good art and that are even exist in the digital were rare old. so i guess i personally don't look at that as art, per se. i would look at it as sort of like a collapsible, and it's not

a collectible sort of culture again, because that image became very, very popular. it's bad. why it has that value? exactly, sort of kind of what i was saying for there is nothing great about that image. it just became very, very popular and was used in a 1000000000 thing, toys, seizure, video games and whatever. and everything tv shows, you know, it became worth $600000.00 because many people knew about it and were yeah, not the key of like culture and a piece of the like internet history. and so i look at those, the sort of like a little different from some sort of my digital art, more like a baseball card. i think a baseball card for sort of like the in for michael can take a short break right now and we're back. we'll continue talking to mike winkleman, aca. people stay with us, the ah,

ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, accept where's the shorter the conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at the point, obviously is to break truck rather than fear the various jobs with artificial intelligence. real, somebody with a robot must protect its own existence with

the when it comes to the rise of china. it, most of the commentary focuses on such things as strategic balance and the west, so called rules based order. however, what is missing in this discussion is the rise of civilization. the challenge is western gemini, is the west prepared for this arc of history? ah, the ah . and we're back with mike winkleman, aca beeble mike. so even though like the end of t is hale is like the new big thing,

right. and though our power houses like christie's consolidate there on board, would like promoting and digital art. there is still a lot of skepticism about it and you know, it in the traditional role there sounds like an empty blog chain business is very dodgy. others question. the artistic value of crypto art? does all that affect you? oh yes, definitely. i would say it, it would be sort of nice to be like, yeah, but i don't know about that or aware of it. so yeah, i definitely do get it. but i think it's something that i'm the people come around very quickly, be quite honest. and i think as people come to know more about this, because the worlds were just buried, my digital art world was know nothing of the traditional world and the traditional world, the nothing. and so it is, it's only been a couple months, you know what i mean, and it's sort of like our history and how long needs are been all. busy busy been

understand what happened and sort of, you know, what's going on. i think it's very quick, but i'm seeing people sort of from iraq, but very, very quickly. and so i think it's going to be sort of a demo lated into. ready the broader conversation of fine art very quickly to be ok. so you aimlessly sad that the craze that the and t digital art created is a bubble. when 1st, are you saying that that was a little out of time? is more so i think it's going to go up and down just like again you look at it didn't go straight up. it went up and then went way down and went down like 80 percent, and then it came way back up. and so i think you're going to use that same thing happened with an app. it's one of the things i'm going to go through depth, but it's the technology itself is so sort of simple. just proving

digital ownership. i don't see that going away. i see that just being more and more useful and, and sort of being able to apply to a bunch of different spaces over time. and i think digital art again will continue to be sort of like them later into the regular conversation of art. so you will be a selection of sort of, you know, all have their stuff retained over time, but just like a lot of traditional art, not all of it sort of retains value over time. so you do need to be sort of, you know, very cognitive than what you're buying because just because something then as he just like look like website. it's very analogous to like the early wrap. just because you make a web page doesn't mean it has any value. and it just because you make them doesn't automatically give you the value just needed to put it on watching your work as reviews from art experts and appraisals for celebrated and modern art is, i mean i've heard they mean hearst, he like got a guy. yeah,

he's like press after his teenage son showed him your work on instagram. so to me, this is the essence. you know, the glory of the digital art. it is grabbing the attention of instagram and take talk res, tech savvy young people. do you have you digital art as an ard for the new generation? ah, to be honest. yeah. and i've actually talked to daniel, you really like understand that and get that. and he actually just did the project just recently, which was super good, but i, it's one of the things where i do think the younger generation will get this 1st. and i think it will be something that, you know, sort of older people will get. i'm 40 myself, i'm not like super young. and so it's, it's one of the things where i think they're just more used to sort of a virtual ownership in their virtual sort of lifestyle. and so i don't think it's

a huge stretch for them to sort of take into like understand and internalize sort of digital ownership. and so i think also it a lot of the culture of the work that i do specifically and many other digital artists very much speak to like the internet and the language of how the people sort of make money and, and also, you know, just sort of exist you know, what i see is people buying crypto art for crypt to currency and i'm thinking 10 years ago. something like that that would have been a fantasy. is what art partridge now is going to look like? i think has done well not, not really. i think yes and no, i think it's going to. ready be sort of divorced from crypto very again, and i feel like they should all be able to be just because it doesn't really have anything to do. it crept out. it's just the sort of underlying watching technology

they both use, but it doesn't really have anything to do with pointer area. you know, it should be able to be and it will be able to box everything regular credit cards . but at the same time, it does your point of patronage sort of remove the middle man. and because people are able to go directly to their back instead of happening to go for a gallery or happening even, you know, sort of like an auction house. and they're able to much more easily sort of directly connect to, to, you know, the following. and they bills online. you know, the art market is like a finicky thing, right? m, r doesn't only exist for our dealers. people need to seed. do you see a future for digital art and digital art exhibits? yeah. 100 percent. i think you're going to see that if i think, you know, again,

it's pretty important on here. so sort of, you know, with museums, they're usually banning show about 2 years in advance. and obviously with call that everything got super messed up, and most museums aren't even open. but i think it's something you're going to be very quickly is. and i think there again, there's the math of benefit. you could have the same piece of art at 5 museums at one time. that's not the case. the traditional art, one painting, it's got to move around all these places, crated up to the next place. digital art is able to sort of like in multiple places at one time and sort of be able to be reached by a bigger community. but i guess like the question there would be, would be art exhibits to digital realm, like instagram or something will dilute the important so far. what i'm saying is i going to take to see rothko experience and self, and i feel that are sort of thing does create

a richer context for art perception. internet doesn't like attention focus, you know, that's true. that is very definitely, you know, when you go in person and you take the time to be there and have a much more obviously, singular experience like that that was very much, you know, toys and had a cough because again, the games are not free and it cost and especially the like the family, it can be quite expensive. it's one of these things where most people don't have that opportunity. and so it's sort of like a baking on mine and well, i'm not a there. my choice is not the, the roscoe or the, you know, a version online version online. and so just by peer numbers, most people will the thing online versus seeing it in, in service space. and so i think just kind of recognizing it is where it is in

terms of that. and that's a good thing because again, that kid in indonesia couldn't see it at all if it wasn't for the internet, you know what it is. and so i think that that again is something that is everything the trade off with digital art and sort of physical presence and not having it. but i think there's definitely a huge amount of benefits that you know, things being burge, on being able to be accessible all over the world. so when you create for a small screen because you know, we all use small screens, most of the time these days, do you feel limited by that nurse or expression? there are absolutely limitation. like for instance, most of the, the vast majority of the pictures that i create are portrait because that sort of instagram, you know, what they like the size they like or whatever that aspect ratio. and so i do that,

but i kind of look at that stuff as not like a negative having limitations. i always get that sort of a positive because they give you a framework around to build something better than just totally blows guy make anything. so i actually view that sort of thing to be honest, but it absolutely is a, you know, if you want to be able to sort of succeed in the social media landscape, it is something that you do honestly need to take into account the sort of you know roles. ready and sort of like, you know, metrics and ways to format your work. janet seen by a bunch of people in your mind, a competition of sorts between the digital and non digital art at all. or are they to math is going to exist in parallel without affecting each other at all? no, i think there, i don't think it's a competition because it's, it's another art warm just like, it's not really a competition between teaching and or just to things like that. and i also don't

think they're going to like exist in parallel. i think they're going to be intertwined very much in the future. and i think be quite honest in the future. i think all paintings will have an app and it will just be proof of ownership just to sort of track that often and it won't be something bad. you know, sometimes it will add a lot of value and sometimes want to much, you know, it's literally, you know, a piece of paper that basically says, you know, the problem for the piece. and so i think the 2 worlds are going to merge. and i think you're going to see more, you know, digital artist, you coming into the, much like my bell never pictured myself make making physical or now that's like a huge part of what i do. so i think you're going to see a bunch of people coming over like that. and i think you're going to see a bunch of the traditional art people embracing the digital technology. damian, her they go a traditional person coming into the world. so i think you're going to see both,

you know, both of them just mixed together and just be another art form just like graffiti, or street art or, or sort of, you know, painting sculptures, whatever. i think it's going to be another are. all right, thanks a lot for this wonderful insight into the world of of t. i wish you all the best of luck with all your future endeavors. it's been great . thank you so much. i would very much appreciate it. thanks a lot. take care and i hope we meet in person. one of them are we good here? we're perfect. have a great day. bye bye. oh

man, across the board of the search and focus bittman lowball near me. oh oh. oh i oh god. give me. i understand i the, the, me,

the join me every thursday on the alex, silent show and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then me the casual separatist lever carlos pushed him on a release from custody, and italy is expected as an extradition hearing that next month. it follows him detention overnight after almost 4 years on the run from the spanish government. as european lawmakers brought their rest at his grave less than a year and no fears drove biden's approval ratings. slum following a raft of devices, policies with the us president now less popular than his predecessor and possible future rival donald trump. and with germany said to choose.