to his dying hand, what can the bloody history of berlin tell us about joe and politics today, we investigate the story. all the small coming up in today's going underground. but 1st of the international community awaits tomorrow's views. of whether more progressive government has been elected in europe's largest economy, germany, some characterizing the nuclear feud between france, the us and britain, the crisis for nato. joining me now from berlin, his germany's former permanent representative to nature. ambassador, you're convinced elect. thank you so much ambassador for coming on the well, maybe waiting for that election to morrow. i got to ask you, what have you made of se macros response to the nuclear submarine deal made apparently in secret between washington, the camber and london. entirely understandable this reaction? i think, between allies and friends. such a procedure is not at all acceptable. and therefore, you have to see clearly the reaction that say over you has of governance and of

your commission. it's normal. and, but let's say very our commercial aspects of it seems the australians have not been really satisfied in the last years by the approach of french and please don't forget the whole situation. at least the perception in the area has changed in the last years. and china is in the perception of your strengthens as of others, is the fret for the whole region. and therefore, i think it was normal to some extent. but i have been consulting that say friends from the past and this moment. but they should have talked about vis a french because the french could have offered to for same solution nuclear submarines. on the other hand, let's say the term was clear up to the us to underline, let's say, to reassure, to some extent, the eyes and friends in the, in the,

in the pacific area. yeah, we'll get to the endo pacific as it's been called you long said that members of europe have not got a unified policy on russia and china. i mean, you said that china is a threat to a strain. the agenda is a threat to germany. china is australia's biggest trading partner, china, the superpower, economically of this century, and will be a big trading butner of berlin. maybe we can get on to why you think it's a threat, rather than a trading. but why would joe biden all boris johnson or scott morrison not have told mackerel beforehand or anglo merkel? this is typically if you want to american or to because if you one british to held secret, such as such a new outlook of american policy and don't forget, the british are looking for new road,

a new place in the world of having left the european union and therefore, well it's perhaps understandable that draft on the secretly but in my eyes. busy there should have at least informed the french who have please invested interest in the, in the pacific pacific area. i mean, it's a, you're saying it's typical. the british government obviously would deny that. do you think peter rab, message rick, it's the former british ambassador, paris is right in saying that this can be damaging, only be damaging to nato. it should be. this may reinforce the feeling of nato allies in europe. there should be driving for european strategic autonomy away from washington. you certainly seems as a washington and london cannot be trusted in. ready short term, yes, there is a damage today too, but it's reps wake up call to talk about really about the future

strategic concept of nato. by the way, in parallel to the strategic come pass of a european union. and i think. ready vis for me, it's a real wake up call. not only to be american, but it's a wake up call at the same time to repeat. let's say to look more after security, to look more after it's a even van strategic. it's hard to me in certain areas, at least, and to build up at the same time a security conception with regard to areas where the v, you repeat, even have invested trade investment interests. and one of these interest is the asian pacific area. and therefore, you have, let's say you need an overall approach. or example, if you ask asian countries about europe, we view pins are to some extent,

a good trade partner. yes. but with regard to security, the europeans are just not existing in asia. and as many of these countries consider, we have perception is a more aggressive chinese policy, which has become more aggressive in the last years. and as you shipping. and therefore, you need to elaborate a real policy. it's almost like it's a good thing because you've been saying this for years as when you left being a german representative at nato. china, of course, would deny its being aggressive. china would say it is responding to hundreds of basis militarization by the united states around in circling at china. what will inform this strategic future for the european union? of course, we don't know who's going to be leading germany until the elections tomorrow, because doesn't the ever ran the crisis?

this is the ever grand crisis which is affecting the banks across western nations. does that not show just how interlinked european economies are with what happens in the communist party in beijing? yes, yes, yes, please. oh, our economies are worldwide linked to some extent. but with regard to the economies should at any moment reflect, i think, visits furious. how far you are dependent on you, how far you can be dependent on us. for example, you have a debate in germany about and europe, about no upstream to i'm not against all stream to because for me, the customer is the king at the end of the day. and you repeat ins have, you're right, you appeal to have up to, you know, never had a real coming policy nova to was china law towards the rest of asia,

if you want nor to india or to other areas. maybe new stream to is powering this interview. i don't know. but can you really imagine that the french or german, the get, can you imagine the french or german navies failing towards chinese maritime borders to threaten china like the british navy is today as part of this future of strategy and the pivot to age or that we've got some buy there is more kindly looking more kindly on the century of china. no, it's, it's, i don't think it's policy often circling, or it's a policy of aggressive. nature is just to show to a chinese that in our eyes, in our perception and in the perception of these nations of the region. there are limits to observe. and i think the chinese understand this quite well. of course, in this future, you have 16000

u. s. military and civilian personnel at ramstein based in germany. i mean, the drone strikes of the united states are conducted and planned. they say from ram, steam, it's old, top secret, maybe joe biden killed those 7 children in afghanistan as they were defeated enough, get this done. and the intelligence was being collected in germany. you're going to keep around the base? yes, it's part of a drum reassurance. party see since 949, please. don't forget this. and therefore for the drums over for let's say, center left or center right, is still view. relationship review as is of crucial importance and remains. but this does not prevent germany from reflecting on areas veil

to, let's say perhaps to coordinate. busy or to concentrate policies with us, but there they have, let's say they will follow another line when the us what difference does your vision of a new world, the perceived by european nature, members what, what difference can they make if not only on the drone strikes being arranged in germany, but germany is a massive seller of weapons to the war on yemen. the world's largest humanitarian crisis in 201-9198 arms exports approved 257000000. i'm going to merkel has mean spearheading arms exports that are used against the poorest countries on earth as you, as you know, very well, could this change under any new european european policy

restructuring as regards some kind of policy that would be supported by the global, silent 1st, 1st, i don't know whether this strikes by drones. now, god is thought have been directed from lunch to the 2nd. the germans have been, let's say, not, let's say the biggest on the sell of invoice. but the germs and other europeans, by the way, as the russians or as the chinese have to learn more is what they call a strategic thinking. and in. ready these what i call it deputy, was somewhere are not the best for you side. look at the look at the half moon of europe around it. 20 years ago. we were for 3 or surrounded by friends and eyes. and the situation today is the policy with russia isn't a bad shape with ukraine is really working with talking with turkey. we are

questioning the middle east and is difficult situation. we have not been able know, over the law of russians, nor of the americans. let's say to calm down the iran, we have not been able to control to some extent, saudi arabia, ambassador, what you're saying there is repeated at the podium at the united nations general assembly all week by one leader after another. and as you know very well, you said you weren't sure whether the drone program by the united states is not masterminded in germany. well, the 2010 budget request and future budget request in the u. s. a. the drone program . this is washington's without ram seen, would have a serious impact on ongoing missions, predator and reaper drones. it was the repo drone that killed those 7 children in the past few days, ordered by joe biden. use this site to conduct operations. it's referring to ramstein and you mentioned the iran, i mean the scientists obviously being assassinated by israel and the biggest

sales of course occurred. i think the 2nd biggest exposure of weapons to israelis, germany agular merkel, visiting their, she rescheduled, she wants to visit israel is a big final trip in a couple of weeks. you were you were you are aware of the special relationship between israel in germany. and there is to a special relationship, even between russia and israel. but he's don't forget who is reassuring is, was in the existence of the one in the us and russia. please, ambassador, i'll stop you there. more from germany's for the representatives and they do up to this break as well as a look at the history and future of european capital berlin. ah, join me every 1st day on the alex summon show and i'll be speaking to guess in the

world, the politic sport business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. mm . you know, life. it's diverse. that's what makes it interesting. when you have a monoculture, it's dangerously monochromatic. like when you have only one strain, a banana and a banana gets sick. and now there's no more bananas to because there's no more diversity the welcome back on the eve of germany's bush, the elections. i'm still here with a master. you're going to do like germany hold a representative to nato. let's joke about angular mark calls role in the mass killing of children in gaza. she express complete solidarity with an attorney who has hundreds of palestinians were killed in gaza in may scores of women and

children. now of course, germany has this special historical relationship. as regard to the holocaust. do you think the elections might change german policy? people are saying that these partners that may be elected in coalition, we have a whole different view of western asia to the well to the palestinians. the dark years of michael's 10 your as leader of germany. no, i see you bid the situation in garza in a bit different way than you see it. but when you look at the drug elections on, on sunday tomorrow, please be aware i can't give today any forecasts. probably the only forecast you may do is we will need 3 parties to form a future government. this means a certain instability, at least for certain time. but i think the drugs will be able to form a government that i don't see in the various parties who will need

a future job government a rift or real change with regard to nature or with regard to you. we're not an election program with the polls, but you seem to be suggesting that not only on the one hand and pastor and you said it for years, you want a realignment, a reevaluation of nato policy, and on the other, it's operation. glad the oh all over again. you're doing nothing. there is no change. ramstein base will still be there. the same pro nato policies pro washington policies on the middle east will be in return in the drone strikes will continue. there will still be the idea that shine, there is the enemy there will still be, i don't know, support for the as off battalion in the ukraine, there's no change. and at the same time there needs to be change. how are you keeping these 2 ideas in your head at the same time? no, i think think i regret you a bit too much simplify. and there are discussions among allies and europeans

about variety strategy towards russia to vote view crane. and there's a lot if you come and view and view crane, but should, as the americans asked, years ago, should joy know to know there's no agreement among the europeans. and i think who has been stopping this hone it was and get america by the way. and when you look at israel, well, drums have a certain responsibility, but on we are very well of parties involved with, let's say, behaving in a way that is, let's say, not really, let's say acceptable to all, understandably, perhaps, but not acceptable. and this includes even russia in the middle east peace. and i think we have altogether a keen interest in a more peaceful area in this, in the middle east. and the same applies to asia police. we have these that say

developed trade and investment interest, for example, with china. yes or with india. yes. and you can't dissolve or separate your trade in investment interest from let's say from for security policy. it's a point taken about bank of america's role in the ukraine membership of nato. and just finally, i mean, do you think the german elections will affect you? us relations in any, any real? please, please. in my eyes we what we need with regard to view as is a reset of our relation with the united states. we need it. it's clear this has become in clear under trump because, but with trump it was impossible to discuss, to negotiate in this way. and i think we have to look, let's say, in

a more balanced relationship with us, this includes trade investment. this includes extra terry 20 of american fiscal measures. this includes even security. and on the other hand, the europeans have to bear in mind. but in future, they have to be to do more on their own security, even in the past much more. m s. c. oh middle ec, thank you. well, berlin stood at the forefront of the cold war and now his german left body delinquent look to possibly attain government as part of a progressive coalition. what can be learned about the future of germany? from the centuries of tension that are defined in capital berlin going underground the, the other to charlie cook spoke to bonnie white swanner his new book, but in the story of a city is out now. body, thanks so much coming. i'm going underground. you've written this book about berlin, the story of the city. i want to start with a kind of obvious question. why? what is your possible connection to the city? well, it's a question. i mean,

it's because having that university sort of went behind the as joining the army. one of the 1st things i did in the army was to take the minute to train on the way you got in for my stephanie. but in all the same thing, and i that, that time in the east germany, which some areas may just need reminding of somebody. confronted by getting a call, see what was in the, in the german border. a coffee is extraordinary. so the line of bob was machine guns and mine scripts and magog dogs. and then in berlin itself, getting cost of all game cost checkpoint charlie in the east and just seeing a well that was complete the $80.00 and the and to me at stay deep shocking in depressing belinda we had, it's always had that complete presentation for me ever since then, basing it so, so physical safety sensor, fascinating physical safety with its normal lines of space and extraordinary

buildings, its cultural see, but also its politics being on the frontline of europe like and again sort of interest me so much as it always has been. and it beside, yeah, that actually history have been in, is written in 20th century is so untrue, actually look up, but then why, why, why use it as it is? and why is it always been say, different to the rest of germany. why it didn't always has been so well. yeah, you kind of mentioned that you, through the book you say you were identified trade the hydra stick or bell. and one of those traits is this, essentially a if the tension between politics, religion, whatever. how did, how did that come about, how to become the city of tension that kind of carried through starting on graphically and then becoming the front of the main front in the cold war and, and arguably now becoming in front and neutral. well, interesting, see, so it was, it was very white, but it should make capital city a, me look at london inside a logical way,

where it is you to compare that way. and they have to know what the malls was originally to fishing villages on the river. spray and i've a space, i'm pretty insignificant. so the river and german to bought. it was because of where it was in europe. it became so crazy. so actually what you had to buy them was a population who gathered that for trade. not bad. have any other reason they were much community and so from that grew this so the balance and i did. they kept that individual, different attitude, but different spirit. i'm a 70 ways people describe people who live on the villa. burton is voted 5 times in the lives and the 1st 4 volunteers on successful then you successful in 1989 and they did the piece for it. have it have that individual spirit have a geographical tension we like for being on the fun kids and then it had the

particular religious tension because the, the rulers sullens were but calvinist, strongly coldness, berlin, as picky religious. so altogether but basic and new to him. but it's also have this extraordinary sort of cultural tension, but in, but it's always done the same thing culturally does. now. berlin, which we, but daily, by way. obviously we have the german elections around the, even the terminal actions drilling the last party potentially about form a kind of progressive coalition. obviously, man will know berlin as the city of mock. just tell me about that period. how battling could create a figure such as it was, he's been living in the eighty's and seeing me pulling social conditions because one of the only things by, by monday, i mean balance that many things sitting because these are the reformation, had it's fun day. sions: it's it, but it's certainly a city or communism. i didn't sunday. sure. because the conditions in the pages further expanded industrially the fall. she's going city in year and say,

stan boss, a couple of the american cities like chicago actually the pulse is growing in the world. but as an industry expanded, the social condition, bob, you have people living in the most appalling conditions right up until the 1921930 mark saw that and he formed his theories on what he was seeing. that it was extraordinary for the 900 century balance and you have this tension between the college as being the hands, all ends and the so the passion military. and at the same time you have invalid and increasing democratize ation. increased the left wing government, that ship safety and increase the left wing movement, increasing left wing all. so you have a whole series of artists and authors who actually very critical of the way i think . so while the surprises people and the other thing that will be is a big issue at the german elections tomorrow will be immigration,

and germany have taken to be far more migrant than most other places in europe. just tell me about berlin's history, kind of multicultural taking in groups from other areas at the time. i mean, and i think i would say in the book that his mom, jeremy wants a pass and he has to do nothing more than look to the the example set bytes. capital city is berlin has taken immigrants a with the agency and it's always been an immigrant city. so there's a great thing about that. a typical belinda is not somebody who did that since 12 century typical, but it was somebody who's revived at the well, we want to embed it you all about it. and this, this tradition, if you like this comfortable company, comfortable and having immigrants there and it has given this enormous cultural diversity and strength and the bridge and in the middle ages tend to be from, you know, the opposite. had the normal jewish migration have the french, you have a lot of people from you have a lot of post these in, but then that,

that get spread. why don't, why does it so to be at the knees imbalance? who came in because the germans bought them in to help work when they had wheel depopulation. you've got a lot of african immigrants who got you got people from and so you say you got me. so social, cultural called him society. the final trade in value would be an issue in the election and is a sense of the victim that you described and move would associate with the thigh and the staff in the back. but you go way back to the 30 years war, but it is all which again, is probably pretty of a make people watching this program. 161816. 48. by far as damaging more europe suffered much more. so in abortion and germany devastated band and bug is devastating itself completely devastated and the take

it, but it never rarely recovers from from what happened. neither of this germany is a lever. you have people like frederick, the great liking, 100 years, a 150 s saying you have to understand the story. the history said, yes, we have people like sure that great and german actually who is a boy and he likes, he has who you have and things like mother college. that is a story with her is more. that's a big picture for penetrating and it's very strong and actually fun enough. it's again in the sort of east west coming together. there are people in the boss from going by then, but the, like i said, it was some people i would probably 1520 percent who are very and you talk about the link that you talk about the strength of the left attitude unique or is he different so the communist party was,

but i did, there are still linked to continuity because some of the people who actually lived in the so of allied in offline and you know, they did, they didn't find it, but it says factory experience, the job sort of move a thought to begin a more readily to people from the west. take the government job. and there is a sense, like you have sort of wasted lives. i mean, you've been born in berlin saying around 900100. your whole life been one of the control the say, and the father as the physical development, but in his health. huge in by the better. but it has been incredibly clever about how it's how it's we built itself hobbins we developed. but it's very good at remembering actually building if you look at the holocaust memorial, how many other cities in, you know, with actually put a really major memorial like holocaust in the middle of the city. i mean that tells you something that is healthy thing to do. i think well bonnie was fun. we'll have

to see how many of the issues in your book in the end up being present in the election. thank you so much. great job. bonnie white, spanish speaking they're going to go g as in charlie cook and that's it for the show will be back on monday to talk me future of life on earth and the possibility of nuclear annihilation with the nobel peace prize winner. until then, human touch, my social media, and let us know what you think the outcome of the german elections will be in the novel. they didn't take into account one thing for their own capabilities. and i didn't want to face the truth if you will. view valesa, the truth is that the u. s. is no longer capable of playing the role of global

hagaman spending the role which had had assigned to itself in the glove. when you do more with ah, working machine in the back. she popped in. she said, well, i'm getting ready to go shopping for christmas. and we, we circled by there was a grim divide, another shooting another safe part of american life shattered by violence. the gunman was armed with an a r 1570 automatic rifle. when the issue comes home, it's time to act when we're violent on this issue, the other side winds, by default, the lady that lived over there. i was walking one of the dogs. why do you wear again? were you scare me?

i took it off and i think the people need to take responsibility in their own hands and be prepared if those kinds of weapons were less available. we wouldn't have a lot of shootings and we certainly wouldn't have the number that i use this ours headline. stories a judge court rules and police can continue selecting people for extra identity. check that the border on the basis of their ethnicity. we put the issue up for debate to codification of racism. i don't know the figure that they are similar like in built in 6 out of britain or illegal immigrant for me to offenses also ahead hundreds of health workers in from start facing prosecution over rump and fraud in the countries coven help.