me join me every thursday on the alex famine show and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then, me the in the headline this hour. russia just close a global corporation on the avoidance of harmful initiative that might split the world at the general assembly where the country's foreign minister gave rope also touched on a wide range of topics. advanced court rules that police can continue collecting people for extra ident, as it tracks at the border on the basis of the ethnic city, codification of racism. i don't know the figures in the rental and i suppose they are similar like in belgium, 6 of them. britain or illegal immigrants and hundreds of house workers in

france has facing complication of a ramp and fraud, and the countries covered health system up to tens of thousands of fig documents uncovered. those are the headlines. the next one i'll say to national is going in the ground and for our years and the u. k. is because the report the news i'm action or 70, we're going underground on the eve of german bullish doug elections amidst the new cold war coming up in the show as russia nod stream to pipeline take center stage

in german elections. and it made a nuclear rel between front usa in britain, we ask germany's former permanent representative to nato if the organization is dying and what can the bloody history of berlin tell us about german politics today? investigate the story. all the small coming up in today's going underground refers to the international community, awaits tomorrow's views of whether more progressive government has been elected in europe's largest economy, germany, some characterizing the nuclear feud between france in the us and britain, the crisis for nato. joining me now from berlin, germany is former permanent representative to nature ambassador your committee let . thank you so much ambassador for coming on the well, maybe waiting for the election. tomorrow i got to ask you what have you made of, say, macros? response to the nuclear submarine deal made apparently in secret between washington, a camber and london. entirely understandable this reaction i think,

between allies and friends. such a procedure is not at all acceptable. and therefore, you have to see clearly the reaction that say over you has of governments and over your commission, it's normal. and, but let's say very our commercial aspects. it seems the australians have not been really satisfied in the last years by the approach of french and please don't forget the whole situation. at least the perception in the area has changed in the last years. and china is in the perception of your trillions. as of us is the fret for the whole region, and therefore, i think it was normal to some extent. but i have been consulting. it's a friends from the past and this moment, but very short have talked about vis, do have a french because the french could have offered to the same solution nuclear submarines

. but on the other hand, let's say the term was clear up to the us to underline, let's say, to reassure, to some extent, the allies and friends in the, in the, in the pacific area. yeah, we'll get to the into civic as it's been called you long said that the members of europe have not got a unified policy on russia and china. i mean, you said that china is a threat to a strain. the agenda is a threat to germany. china is australia's biggest trading butner. china is the superpower economically of this century and will be a big trading butner of berlin. maybe we can get on to why you think it's a threat, rather than a trading. but why would joe biden orest johnson or scott morrison not have told mackerel beforehand or anglo merkel? this is typically if you want to american or to because if you one british to held

its secrets such as such a new outlook of american policy. and don't forget, the british are looking for new road, a new place in the world of having left the european union. and therefore, well, it's perhaps understandable in vap done the secretly, but in my eyes there should have at least informed the french who have please invested interest in the, in the pacific pacific area. i mean, it's a, you're saying it's typical. the british government obviously would deny that. do you think peter rab method or rick, it's the former british ambassador, paris is right in saying that this can be damaging, only be damaging to nato. it should be. this may reinforce the feeling of nato allies in europe. there should be driving for european strategic autonomy away from washington. you certainly seems as

a washington and london cannot be trusted in. ready short term, yes, there is a damage to natal, but it's reps wake up call to talk about really about the future strategic concept of ne tool by the way in parent to restrict come pass over your opinion. and i think. ready this for me, it's a real wake up call. not only to be american, but it's a wake up call at the same time to repeat. let's say to look more after security to look more after let's say, even van strategic, it's hard to me in certain areas it east and to build up at the same time a security conception with regard to areas where the v, you repeat, even have invested trade investment interests and one of these interest is the

asian pacific area. and therefore, you have, let's say you need an overall approach. or example, if you ask asian countries about europe, we view pins are to some extent a good trades pop. yes. but with regard to security, the europeans are just not existing in asia. and as many of these countries consider, we have perception is a more aggressive chinese policy, which has become more aggressive in the last years. and as you shipping. and therefore, you need to elaborate a real policy. it's almost like it's a good thing, because you've been saying this for years as when you left being a german representative at nato. china, of course, would deny its being aggressive. china would say it is responding to hundreds of basis militarization by the united states around in circling at china.

what will inform this strategic future for the european union? of course, we don't know who's going to be leading germany until the elections tomorrow because of the ever grant, the crisis, the ever grant that crisis, which is affecting the banks cross western nations that not show just how into linked european economies are with what happens in the communist party in beijing. yes. yes, yes, please. oh, our economies are worldwide linked to some extent. but with regard to the economies should at any moment reflect, i think, visits serious how far you are dependent or you how far you can be dependent on others. for example, you have a debate in germany about in europe about north stream too. i'm not against the stream too, because for me, the customer is the king at the end of the day. and you repeat ins have,

you're right, you appear to have up to, you know, never had a real coming policy nova, towards china law towards the rest of asia. if you want nor to india or to other areas, maybe north stream to is powering this interview. i don't know, but can you really imagine that the french or german, the get, can you imagine the french or german navies failing towards chinese maritime borders to threaten china like the british navy is today as part of this future of strategy and the pivot do age are that mean gold? some by those more kindly looking more kindly on the century of china? no, it's, it's, i don't think it's policy often circling all it's a policy of aggressive nature is just to show to a chinese fed in our eyes,

in our perception and in the perception of these nations of a region where our limits to observe. and i think the chinese understand this quite well. of course, in this future, you have 16000 u. s. military and civilian personnel and ramstein based in germany. i mean, the drone strikes of the united states are conducted and planned. they say from ram steen, it's all top secret. maybe joe biden killed those 7 children in afghanistan as they were defeated enough. get this done. and the intelligence was being collected in germany. you're going to keep ramsey in bass? yes, it's part of a drum reassurance. policy since 949, please don't forget this. and therefore for the drums, i will for let's say, center left or center right,

is still view relationship review as is of crucial importance and remains. but this does not prevent germany from reflecting on areas veil to, let's say perhaps to coordinate. busy or to concentrate policies with us, but there, there have, let's say they will follow another line when the us, what difference does your vision of a new world, the perceived by european nature, members, what difference can they make? if not only are the drones strikes, being arranged in germany, but germany is a massive seller of weapons to the war on yemen. the world's largest humanitarian crisis in 201-9198 arms exports approved. 257000000. i'm going to merkel has been spearheading arms exports that are used against the poorest countries on earth as

you, as you know, very well, could this change under any new european european policy restructuring as regards some kind of policy that would be supported by the global, silent 1st, 1st i don't know whether the strikes by drones, you know, god is to have been directed from well, i'm just in the 2nd the drums have been that say not, let's say the biggest sullivan world. but the germs and other europeans, by the way, as the russians or as the chinese have to learn more is what they call strategic thinking. and in. ready these what i call deputy was somewhere or not the best for any side. look at this ever look at the half moon of europe around it. 20 years ago we've, we have our fort real surrounded by friends and eyes. and the situation today is

the policy with russia isn't a bad shape with ukraine is really. busy working with talking. busy with turkey, we are questioning the middle east and is difficult situation. we have not been able to over the law of a russian snow of the americans, let's say, to calm down the iran we have not been able to control to some extent saudi arabia, ambassador, what you're saying there is repeated at the podium at the united nations general assembly all week by one leader after another. and as you know very well, you said you weren't sure whether the drone program by the united states is not masterminded in germany. well, the 2010 budget request and future budget request in the u. s. a. the drone program, this is washington's without ram seen, would have a serious impact on ongoing missions, predator and reaper drones. it was the reaper drone that killed those 7 children in the past few days,

ordered by joe biden. use this site to conduct operations. it's referring to ramstein, you mentioned the iran, i mean, the scientists obviously have been assassinated by israel and the biggest sales of course, i think the 2nd biggest exposure of weapons to israelis, germany agular merkel visiting their she rescheduled, she wants to visit israel is a big final trip in a couple of weeks, you are where you are. you are aware of the special relationship between is with germany. and there is to a special relationship, even between russia and israel. please don't forget who is reassuring is raised in the existence of the one in the us. on the other hand, it's russia, please come back or i'll stop you there. more from germany's, for the representatives and a to up to this break as well as a look at the history and future of european capital berlin.

join me every thursday on the alex simon show. when i was speaking to guess in the world, the politic sport business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. me the moon. welcome back on the eve of germany's burnished elections. i'm still here with ambassador york embitter, like germany, hold a representative to nature. let's talk about angular merkel. role in the mass killing of children in gaza. she express complete solidarity with an s n. the who has hundreds of palestinians were killed in gaza in may scores of women and children. now of course,

germany has this special historical relationship. as regards the holocaust, do you think the elections might change german policy? people are saying these partners that may be elected in coalition, we have a whole different view of western asia to the well to the palestinians. the dark years of michael's 10 your as leader of germany. no, i see you bid the situation in golf in a bit different way than you see it. but when you look at the drug elections on, on sunday tomorrow, please be aware. i can't give today any forecasts. probably the only forecast you may do is we will need 3 parties to form a future government. this means a sudden instability, at least for certain time. but i think the drugs will be able to form a government that i don't see in the various parties who will need

a future job government a rift or real change with regard to nature or with regard to you. we're not an election program with the polls, but you seem to be suggesting that not only on the one hand and master and you said it for years, you one's a realignment a reevaluation of nato policy and on the other, it's operation. glad vio all over. when you're doing nothing, there is no change. ramstein bass will still be there, the same pro nato policies. pro washington policies on the middle east will be retained the drone strikes will continue. they will still be at the idea that china, there is the enemy, there will still be, i don't know supports for the as off battalion in the ukraine, there's no change. and at the same time, there needs to be change. how are you keeping these 2 ideas in your head at the same time? no, i think think i regret you a bit too much simplifying the whole. there are discussions among allies and

europeans about variety strategy towards russia to vote view crane. and there's a lot if you come and view on view crane, but should, as the americans asked, years ago, should join no, to know there's no agreement among the europeans. and i think who has been stopping this hone it was and get america by the way. and when you look at israel, well, drums have a certain responsibility, but on we are very well of up parties involved. who are, let's say, behaving in a way that is, let's say, not really, let's say acceptable to all understand regrets, but not acceptable. and this includes even russia in the middle east peace. and i think we have altogether a keen interest in a more peaceful area in this, in the middle east. and the same applies to asia please. we have these, let's say,

developed trade and investment interest, for example, with china. yes or with india. yes. and you can't dissolve or separate your trade in investment interest from, let's say from for security policy. it's a point taken about bank of america's role in the ukraine, members of nato. and just finally, i mean, do you think the german elections will affect you? us relations in any, any real way, then please, please, in my eyes we, what we need with regard to view as is a reset of our relation with the united states. we need it. it's clear. this has become in clear under trump because, but with trump it was impossible to discuss, to negotiate in this way. and i think we have to look, let's say, in a more balanced relationship with us. this includes trade investment. busy which

includes extra terry 20 of american fiscal measures. this includes even security and on the other hand, the europeans have to bear in mind. but in future they have to be to do more. busy on their own security, even in the past, much more m s. c. okay, let. thank you. well berlin stood at the forefront of the cold war and now his german left body delinkum. look to possibly attain government as part of a progressive coalition. what can be learned about the future of germany, from the centuries of tension that are defined to capital berlin going underground deputy either to try to cook, spoke to bonnie white spot or his new book, but in the story of a city is out now. body, thanks so much coming. i'm going underground. you've written this book about berlin story, the city i want to start with a kind of obvious question. why? what is your possible connection to the city? well, it's such a question. i mean, it's because having that university sort of went behind the as joining the army.

one of the 1st things i did in the army was to take the minute to train on the way you got into about my stephanie. but in all the sitting and either at that time in the east germany, which some areas may just need reminding of somebody. confronted by getting a course the what was in the, in a german border fits extraordinary. so the line of bob was machine guns and mine strips and magog dogs. and then in berlin, it's getting cost of all game cost checkpoint charlie in the east and just seeing a world that was complete the $80.00 and the and to me at stay shocking in depressing. but in the we had, it's always had that complete fascination for me. ever since then, basing it so. so physical safety such a fascinating physical safety with its normal lines of space in this extraordinary buildings, its cultural see, but also its politics being on the front line if you'd like,

and get them interested me so much as it has been an idea that actually history have been in is written in 20th century is so untrue, actually look up, but in this case, if i use it as it is, and why is it always been say, different to the rest of germany. why it didn't always has been so well. yeah. you kind of mentioned that you through the book you say you were identified tracy address to or bell. and one of those traits is this, essentially a if the tension between politics, religion, whatever. how did, how did that come about? how to berlin become the city of tension that kind of carried through starting on graphically and then becoming the front of the, the main front in the cold war and, and arguably now becoming a front in the neutral. well, it was no matter why should the capital city a me look at london inside the logical way, where it is you to compare it away. and they have to actually what the malls was

originally to fishing villages on the river spray. and i've a space pretty insignificant. so the river and german tub bought it was because of where it was in europe. it became so praising. so actually what you had was the population who gather that for trade. not bad. any other reason they were much community and so that grew, this said so. so the balance and i did is that it's that individual, different attitude, but different spirit. i'm assembly ways people describe people call it berlin. villa mean person is voted 5 times in the lives they need, the 1st 4 move out until i'm successful. then you'd successful in 1989 and they did it piece it. have it have that individual spirit have a so geographical tension we like for being on the fun kids and then it had the particular religious tension because the, the willis, huggins, allan,

but calvinist, strongly, calvinist, berlin is pretty religious. so altogether, but basically a new one. but it's also have this extraordinary, so the cultural tension but in but it's always done the same thing culturally and it does now berlin weekly, but daily, by way, obviously we have the germinal actions are on the, even the terminal actions delink. the last party potentially about form a kind of progressive coalition. obviously, man will know berlin as the city of mark. just tell me about that period. how battling could create the figures out to it. but he's living in the eighty's and seeing the paulding social conditions because one of the things by monday, i mean, but in the many things it's a city which is where the reformation had it's it's it, but it's certainly communism hadn't sunday sions because the conditions in the cases further expanded industrially, the policy is going city and to say,

stan boss, a couple of the american cities like chicago actually the pulse is growing in the world. but as an industry expanded in the social condition give up and you have people living in the most appalling conditions right up. why down until the $92930.00 mark saw that and he formed his theories on what he was seeing that it was extraordinary per the $900.00 century balance. and you have this tension between the cause of the heavens. all ends and the sort of passion military. and at the same time you have invalid and increasing democratization. increased the left wing government, that ship safety and increase the left wing movement, increasing, left, bring all. so you have a whole series of artists and authors who actually very critical of the way i think . so while the surprises people. and the other thing that will be is a big issue at the german elections tomorrow will be immigration. and germany has

taken to be far more migrant than most other place than europe. just tell me about berlin's history kind of multiculturalism taking in from other areas at the time. i mean, and i think i'd say in the book that his mom gemini, wants a pass and he has to do nothing more than look to the, the example set bytes. capital city is berlin has taken immigrants a with the agency and it's always been an immigrant city. so there's a great thing about that. a typical, belinda is not somebody who's good. that's in trouble about it. with somebody who's revived at the railway station one to embed it you are. and this, this tradition, if you like this comfortable, company uncomfortable and having immigrants. and it has given that this enormous cultural diversity and strength, the bridge in the middle ages, tend to be from you know, the opposite. who had the normal jewish migration. you have the printer, you have a lot of people, you have a lot of studies in but then that,

that get spread wider and wider, has to be at the knees. and berlin, who came in because the germans bought them in to help work when they had real depopulation. you've got a lot of african immigrants. you've got, you've got people come inside. he says, you got maybe extraordinary social cultural called him society. the final tre, in barley, we may be an issue in the last month. is that sense of victim had the you described and move would associate with the sy in the stop in the back, but you way back to the 30 years war, but it is all which again is probably pretty. we're making people watching this program. 16181648. by far, my 70. more europe and suffered much more say in abortion. and germany is devastated band and bug is devastating. and but it is itself completely devastated . and the take it, but it never really recovers from,

from what happened to it. and i did this germany as a leader. you have people like frederick, great liking 100 years. they saying you have to understand the see the history said yes, we have people like sure that great germany actually who is a boy and he likes, but he has war. you have things like mother courage, that is the story with her is more that's into vicky. moody's in perpetuating and it's very strong and actually fun enough. it's again in the sort of east west coming together. there are people in the balsam go to the needs, but then but the, like i said, it create some people i would say probably 1520 percent who are very and you talked about the link that you talk about the strength of the left. actually there is a huge difference. so the communist party was but there are still live do is to continue to because some of the people who

actually lived in the so over live in off 1989 they did. they didn't find it, but it says that experience the jobs move a thought to be a more ready to be from the west. take the government job and the sense like you have sort of wasted lives and maybe been born in that saying around 900100, your whole life had been won the control, the se, and the father then as the physical development. but in his hell, huge in by the better, but it has been incredibly clever about how it's how it's rebuilt itself, how we developed. but it's very good at remembering actually buildings. you look at the holocaust memorial. how many other cities in, you know, with actually put a really major memorial like the holocaust in the middle of the city? i mean that tells you something that is a healthy thing to do. i think well, bonnie was fun. we'll have to see how many of the issues in your book in the sort

of end up being present in the elections. i think thanks so much. great job. bonnie white, spanish speaking they're going undergoing deputy editor charlie cook and that's it for the share will be back on monday to talk in the future of life on earth and the possibility of nuclear annihilation with a nobel peace prize winner until then even touch my social media and let us know what you think the outcome of the german elections will be ah ah ah .