says i don't want the cards the way you got me. sure. it's under which wire. it's in the not no mac or pc you can listen. can you know and leave me with me. i hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered on peter all about many countries in the western world are grappling with such issues as illegal immigration and energy insecurity. and remarkably, there is always

a single root cause, a party to blame. and that is russia also. iran steps out on the world stage in a big way, ending its isolation. ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess. markers about the ductless in london is a historian analyst. the author of the book arrives. we'll see the return of russia to world politics. and here in moscow were joined by dmitri bob. she is a political analyst and editor. it interests me, internet media project, or gentleman cross up role. and in fact, that means you can jump at anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. let's start out with marcus mac. let me read you a few headlines here from cnbc, ukraine to got video accuses rush of using gas as a geopolitical weapon. as energy crisis deepens,

very ominous. there. this is from the scotsman gas price. prices with russia is vladimir putin in control of the bow. importing supplies was always high risk. and we go over to bloomberg here, nor string to pipeline news. ukraine worries less about gas, more about war. again, this whole story with energy insecurity in europe, which i believe there is because there was a massive cut in, in demand during the height of the pandemic. and then when things started returning that was a higher demand. so there wasn't as much gas being put into storage, then we have winter coming up because i absolutely nothing to do with the russian. but so ever but all of entered europe energy both or somehow brushes when they were when the united states was against, nor dreamed that would actually increase the amount of natural gas. and to be your opinion, what is new world is going on here? well, peter, i will start the survey historical actually said,

namely that relations between the west and russia over many centuries have been characterized by the mutual suspicion and loop. and what distinguishes relations between the west and russia now, is that today western allegations against russia are absolutely farcical. so 1st of all, western mainstream major is giving coverage and credence to polish claims. the migration crisis, plague in europe is as a result of russia and bennett, russia, sending the migrants into year through poland. well, since when has poland been the entry point into europe for refugees, all circle refugees and immigrants? the truth of the matter is that the west, the stabilization of no fact for the mid to waste,

specifically libya and syria is what has caused the migration crisis. then we have british government claims. i'm british mainstream major claims that the energy crisis lumina over britain, is as a result of the kremlin. well, britain, it should not have relies, to the extent it's on liquefied natural gas. and instead of hurling use and all full accusations against russia, the british governments should have put politics aside and should have sat down with the russians and should have come to an agreement like the german government states, specifically on referring to north stream. so, because unlike for britain, germany now enjoys an uninterrupted flow of natural gas from russia, that is good german industry,

that is goods for german domestic households. i should say, peter, that is imperative. german industry and german domestic households. if the british states could truly cared for its citizens and i said they would have put politics aside and it would offend, shows an uninterrupted flow of russian natural gas, which would have been imperative for the british economy and imperative british domestic households. but instead, an energy crisis is lumen, but naturally has nothing to do with the british states. no, it can only be the fault of, of course, the, based from the east, russia did hammer. this was the base of backs and reality is that the north stream to was something that the germans wanted something that, but the russians didn't from both america, they should be more specific gas from. and so now we have the b eventually ality in the matter of weeks, if the regular service that we are an abundance of natural gas in,

in the european union, it makes it all the way to a different story. but i mean, of the politicizing this year when it's purely an economic commercial issue here. i've always been mystified by, you know, where with bottom control of the bow. well, it's gas brown wants to make money by selling its product. there is customers that will have a demand for that product. i don't understand why this has to be over. what advises marcus is pointed out, go ahead. well, i mean, the whole energy crisis in europe can be resolved in one day or no, that's in one hour. if they just see by going to read just not strong enough steam to tomorrow or i'm going to register in december, they start date, next hour. the prices will go down because the markets, you know, the markets are reactant to. i'm so the future, i mean they don't know. still know seem to, they still don't? no. and the problem is not ethnic when there's no,

it's idea logical. i mean there are germans. some germans of polls north seem to, you know, to me, you know, the green party, they read the on the left, the an a variable. all the list said i want the job to ross, you know, in the budgets. i don't want this to be ever, ever used technically at north seem to is ray, do you know the goss pro announced that i was ready to start bumping the gaze on the 1st of october? so the problem is no technical if, if i go to call and i will partially agree with what marcus said about the russia west relations all him. but logan is mostly on the west side. on the russian side. maybe there will some bullshit early decade. so the service union because we wanted to make you optional. now at least you know, you know, you're in all my years and i have lived in russia all my life 50 years. i've never,

i've never called the kid just sadness dives. well, i mean the, after what happened that, the limping game, but you will not see them, but you could no show the flag. he was the most blank, optimistic people. i've seen all look fishes are. you know, this is really get out of camp because his job, yes, but the general russian culture and easy european country and one so much to be where the europe. but all the problem is that europe sound was just roles map and talking about the migration program, the market. so just mentioned basically there were rumors, the blue question go would use migrant back in the late ninety's. i mean, i read the border so i, i asked my readers to they read the frost magazine, read the news. we both got from the early to thousands late night just they have been suspected shinkel try to do that. you know, she didn't do that,

but they suspected him and 20 years later, something like that happened. but when off to europe in both unprecedented sanctions on billers against the industry, against the enterprise, extract him and there was so, i mean, what do you expect the problem is that the, the west right now, the government and the media, they use the creek that not to sexually use very often they mix 40 to some morals, like if you want to dig the sanctions or beller, bella, russia, record base, basically bill, which is a translation that was wide russia into bill or language. so if you, if you say i'm against the sanctions imposed, you're in a moral person. you're not suggesting a political solution. you are a traitor. you are in cahoots with lucas angle. this is the same way, the knobs and if you are both peoples of corpus, or just major political statement,

journal opposing, shoot, what you are you laurel, you know, you don't know. the interesting thing is lisa, but when look at them and bought them and they met and they were asking him, i'm directing this tomorrow because they were asking me about the immigration policy. and he said, well, why don't you ask? it has nothing to do with right there whatsoever, but in the, in the mainstream it is somehow, russia has been good with lucas to release immigrants into the european union, which by the way of colon and the baltic states, thinking about barriers and wall. i guess those barriers and walls are ok, but not at the american southern border, but i digress. go ahead. well, i think pizza banner, russia is under the spotlight now in the west because the west attempted to embellish basha last summer failed and it was always going to fail and fail

abysmally. and as a result of that failure, the integration process between moscow and mints has received that as received a much needed emphasis just so much so that the re unification of russia. russia is very much something that is going to happen sooner rather than later. so the west is fine to stop. that's why are they trying to stop that? because, of course, bella, russia bowed, is on to poland. and nice. so is a poland. ne, so is beef and up its presence in poland, which i so that is a flagrant violation. of the russia of the name of found the max of $997.00. but in regard to the foster co allocations, the west is made against russia. it's very clear that the west has never felt so emboldened before in that it makes allegations which have no substance to it

whatsoever. and we have to ask the question, why do they feel so emboldened and i put it to the race? and it's best that people in america and in britain no longer think independently or critically. they simply have this intrinsic, this absolute trust in what their politicians and journalists tell them. but also the average american, like the average britain, is more interested in their television programs. and celebrity culture and reality television, they no longer care what's happening in that society. let alone can what's happening in the why the wealth. so when british major gives credence to polish claims that russia and bella russia, responsible or could be responsible for the migration crisis. and gulf in your average british person, the average american person would be happy to go along with that. it's a sad, depressing state of affairs

d member. last 45 seconds for this part of the program. again, the ukraine is playing a role in this year. the, the, the fact i'm agreeing with mark is here, the reason why nor stream one and 2 were built because ukraine was deemed as an unreliable transit partner and, and so that they're built. oh, okay. and now they're complaining about ukraine's energy and security. when you crane itself is responsible for that insecurity, go ahead or you know, the west to us bill or was and it's leader question will be gruel. look at the figure, some of the facts, how much more gruel the ukrainian then you ukrainian government. i mean, it's not just using trying chance against the demonstrate this infusion plain, some tax, you know, the store of the country and talking about the history of the gas by point built by point to where we're going to go to a new words and some real estate with our oh

me the news? ah, ah ah, ah, ah news. in the the cross topler all things considered.

peter la bell, this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. i okay, let's go back to the mac, went to the breakdown we wanted to make a point that we talk about iran and it's diplomatic initiatives. you go ahead, the mom just the thing as well. so all of the ones that are under pressure for all the west rush should build a pipeline to pull up, you know, through in the late nineties to school while you're young, europe and the russian suggestion was to connect this fire bar into the ukrainians . wow. and the ball refused for geopolitical reasons. they said this can be used against ukraine. so this was, that's why russia had to build this huge bible and you won't examine why the world would be spend so much money. but because of all,

and i would say very intransigent and very absurd position. and just to remind our, our, our us how is the united states of all the projects? how can the basis states impose sanctions on something between russian, germany, what will happen in russia and sanction us on the pipeline between mexico and do the states. okay. other than doing that, imagine what a scandal would be, or this is except that the western society just something normal that the country that has nothing to do with this one is imposing sanctions, threatens and, and other countries save all that. all present never, never framed that way. demon. thank you for pointing that up or i want to switch gears here. the shang cooperation organization around it will. finally, after many years of petitioning, i become a member of that or organization. why is that important? markets go ahead. well, i should say, 1st of all, peter,

my opinion on america and song runs countries, or many analysts and journalists are saying, because i do not believe that america has less afghanistan. indeed, i believe that both america and britain have retains that influence america by having come to an informal agreement with the taliban. because the taliban were never defeated militarily by america on britain. and secondly, it was just inconceivable at the telephone, telephone on their own could have conquered afghanistan, a country so large. so the 5 different regions simply on their own notes, the american military gave the go ahead and also as well. american doesn't have to have soldiers in the country in order to control that country. it can control a country for control in this country's economy, son into the shanghai cooperation organization. if this is what it is,

1st go ahead. shanghai cooperation organization is a ration alliance, including countries such as russia, china, central asia, and now iran. and it focuses on issue semi for security to economics. so politics and it's a very good alliance because it means back all of the countries involved on. now the members of the shanghai cooperation organization and iran having been as mrs. so the alliance demonstrates how iran's influence, not just in the middle east, but in the why the world is growing. and i consider it wrong. it makes sense to be very good, especially for the security of that region. yes, it will be good for trays, but i believe that there is of course, a very serious islamist terrorists presence, growing not just since central asia. so in the went in the chinese region are

seeing shame. and i believe that the wrong as a result of its tremendous experience in fighting against terrorism. after all, it was a wrong that prevented the cancerous tentacles of the taliban from extend them into the me to waste will be able now to share information with countries in b. s. c, o senses, russia and china, which will be imperative semen and the space in the midst, terrorism and islamists in general infatuation states. but of course, the americans, who, as i said, remain very much in africa on will view. iran submitted admissions to the seo with increasing consternation because on the one hand that shows that surrounds influence is growing. secondly, the shanghai corporation organization has grown to such an extent now that the americans are exceedingly wary and concerned by its marcus brought it up

when he was the binding, the, the shanghai cooperation organization. you know, people in the west, my li, stupidly making some kind of comparison with nato, which is, it's not ok because what, you know, the, the security element may be there definitely got counter terrorism. yes, definitely there. but there is the commercial economic element that is key could be the functioning of this organization. and this is why this is such a wind ball around because they're breaking out of the isolation, the maximum pressure warning that the us is the bite against the rain waiting and coming. so this is a very significant move, and this organization covers the array of land mass bass. ok and, and this is a certainly a counter to the hedge. a monic aims us as for the ration land, go ahead. well, i will that to what market for just rightly said that there are some kind of corporate nation was founded in 1997 on china's initiative and allow it don't only

and coach iran it didn't go in the park to stop. so basically when we're told by the west of need your own, there is so much contradiction between china. i just found the hate each other somehow. well the night stay. so the west is not in the wall. they can be members of the same organization. and they children of yours just woke at all. there is a lucian statement from their shanghai corporation organization from our collective security organization csu. you will never find that any been the guard against a particular country. every statement starts with their preamble, that su is not directed against any particular country in the world. you know, this is very different from natal. you're right comparisons with need to make no sense because natal open recalls russia. you remember how hillary clinton clinton

called russia hostile nation, and we all remember how nature even statement talked about adverse re, you know, china and introduce your reference and almost an amy. so this is basically, this is what, this is what is making as your so different from, from nato. it's a peaceful organization not directed against a particular country. and why does it make the united states of the west so angry because it shows that you and d. d inside the same are going to zation despite differences, cultural political differences. and the idea suggested by that he's still insist on having this democracy is versus of better theory and they signed it before the end of the year. are thought it would be possible after again a barcode because just needed to remind you that against and for many years was the most important major l i outside the organization. you remember and look what

happened to it and coming back to what we were talking about in the 1st part of the program. if we accept this idea or by that, that there are you mockers just and chris just right. then the why i people please supposed be democratic iraq and supposedly democratic libya. why are they lead to even the, from the bit and to beller, bella russia from iraq if iraq is so, democrats, why are they changing it for the authoritarian bill or? so there are so when you think that just don't add up in the western in the world. thank you. on the wall page from your book. i mean, when you put everything into an ideological lens, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. and that's exactly what these people do, mark, this is something that iran is really push for very, very hard. i think they had observers status starting in 2005 if i'm not mistaken. so this is when all for them. and it shows that the,

the american lead campaign crusade by can use that word against the ran it show slowly, but surely eroding, coming apart here. the country is very much self sufficient in many ways because of the sanctions. and now the massive economy deal made with china that we're the next quarter century. and this is a new page for our ran. it seems to me they've made it through the worst year, at least as far as the american policy against the ram. and i think as you pointed out, the region is going to be far more safer because there is real terrorism there. and having these and these cut all of these countries feel it. okay. and it's the common enemy. so i think that instead of coddling and protecting isis and the 31 flavors of g hon. these countries, michelle corporation organization are actually serious and biting it. go ahead markets one pizza. iran for over 42 years now has withstood

a terrible terrific power raj or sanctions placed on it by america. and yet it wrong not only has withstood the cause, but iran has grown stronger and stronger. and its recent admission to the s c o demonstrates that iran is more than just a regional player now. and it also goes to show how, how close iran's relations, political, economic, and military relations with both russia and china. all because of course moscow and basing off the de facto lasers. ready that's indisputable. iran has a very close relationship with china and swipe aging was more than happy for iran to be admitted. but even more important than that's, iran has a strategic partnership with the russian federation. that's on its own has changed, the dynamics has changed the dimensions of the made the waste because no longer is

iran face in america on its own like it for it during the night and during the 1990s. so of course, the kremlin was very happy to see its strategic partner admitted to the s c r and the americans and the british who are very much in afghanistan. and of course, the taliban will continue to do the bidding on behalf of their western patrons to feel fractions because it's just russia and china and iran, as dmitri directly said, india and pakistan are also members of the young. so the americans can't help feel somewhat strengthened by these countries in india because they are surrounding they all surround in africa, song, and it's no coincidence. i have a pizza that just stays after the taliban conquerors. africana staunch be taliban

announced that they would guarantee the security of western pipelines in afghanistan. that was very talent. and then days after that the c i a director match with the leadership of the pilot and that was very talent. and i believe that sooner rather than later, you will see washington and london established diplomatic relations with those relations of their okay, well that the, the, the last page that saga has yet to be written. i agree with much of what you have to say, but i think the idea for a separate programs, i want to thank my guess in london and here in moscow, bigger viewers for watching as here are. see you next time. remember the me, i

the join me every thursday on the alex, silent show and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then me our system with me is work is ah, law. well, the good news is hello, killing me, because i don't want the

cause. the choice of shirts underwood while you're committed. it's not normal for peace and she can listen. can you know and leave to show my wife and i make no certainly no borders under my number as emerge. we don't with the lead to the whole world needs to take action and be ready to people judge crisis and we can do better. we should be better. everyone is contributing each in our own way, but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is paid for

the response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes it feel very proud that we need together in the top headlines 0 and t only results from germany's election point to a narrowed lead for the social democrats and the worst ever showing for the party of outgoing chance tele, i'm dilemma trying to see and heading to the course of a border future wraps over restriction on sub drivers entering the territory. the person is accused of an inhumane treatment over a teenager inmate who lost her child often giving alone in herself and offered counsel.