me ah, join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guests in the world, the politics, sport, business and show business. i'll see you then me. i would need to look at the law. oh boy. yeah. which was yeah. the little girl made it because i don't want the car to the toy you got me?

sure. it's under which way you commit. it's not normal. court is peace and she can listen. denise me and leave me with me. i i hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered on peter all about many countries in the western world are grappling with such issues as illegal immigration and energy insecurity. and remarkably, there is always a single root cause, a party to blame. and that is russia also,

iran steps out on the world stage in a big way ending it. so i solution, ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, markers about the ductless in london is a historian, analyst and author of the book arrives. we'll see the return of russia to world politics. and here in moscow were joined by dmitri bob. she is a political analyst and editor, it interests me, internet media project, or gentleman cross up role, and in fact, that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. let's start out with marcus mac. let me meet you. a few headlines here from cnbc, ukraine. now, so got video accuses rush of using gas as a geopolitical weapon. as energy crisis deepens, very ominous. there. this is from the scotsman gas price crisis with russia.

vladimir putin in control of the vow importing supplies was always high risk. and we go over to bloomberg here, nor string to pipeline use. ukraine worries less about gas, more about war. again, this whole story with energy insecurity in europe, which i believe there is because there was a massive cut in, in demand during the height of the pandemic. and then when things started returning, there was a higher demand. so there wasn't as much gas being put into storage, then we have winter coming up because i'm probably nothing to do with the rush. but so ever but all of entered europe, energy, both or somehow rushes when they were when the united states was against, nor freedom to the would actually increase the amount of natural gas into the european union. what is new world is going on here? well, i will start the survey historical actually said, namely that relations between the west and russia over many centuries have been

characterized by the mutual suspicion and loop. and what distinguishes relations between the west and russia now, is that today western allegations against russia are absolutely farcical. so 1st of all, western mainstream major is giving coverage and credence to polish claims. the migration crisis, plague in europe, is as a result of russia and better russia, sending the migrants into your through poland. well, since when has poland been the entry point into europe for refugees, all circled refugees and immigrants? the truth of the matter is that the west, the stabilisation of north africa and in the mid to waste, specifically libya and syria, is what has caused the migration crisis. then we have british government

claims. i'm british mainstream major claims. that the energy crisis lumina over britain, is as a result of the kremlin. well, gritz and it should not have relies, to the extent it's on liquefied natural gas. and instead of hurling use and all full accusations against russia, the british governments should have put politics aside and should have sat down with the russians and should have come to an agreement like the german government states, specifically on referring to north stream. so, because unlike for britain, germany now enjoys an uninterrupted flow of natural gas from russia, that is good german industry, that is goods for german domestic households. i should say, peter, that is imperative. german industry and german domestic households. if the british

states could truly cared for its citizens and i say they would have put politics aside and it would offend, shows an uninterrupted flow of russian natural gas, which would have been imperative for the british economy and imperative british domestic households. but instead, an energy crisis is lumen, but naturally has nothing to do with the british states. no, it can only be the fault. of course, the, based from the east, russia, diameter. this was the base of baths in reality. is that not strange to was something that the germans wanted something that but the russians didn't propose that and they could be more specific gas from. and so now we have to be eventually ality in the matter of weeks, if the regular braces are resolved, that would be an abundance of natural gas in, in the european union all the way to a different story. but i mean, a b politicizing this year when it's purely an economic commercial issue here. i've

always been mystified by, you know, where with bottom control of the bow. well, it's gas brown wants to make money by selling its product. there is customers that will have a demand for the product. i don't understand why this has to be over, bullet advises, marcus is pointed out. go ahead. well, i mean, the whole energy crisis in europe can be resolved in one day or no, that's in one hour. if they just see by going to read just not strong enough stream to tomorrow or we're going to register in december, they start date, next hour. the prices will go down because the markets, you know, the markets are reactant to. i'm so the future, i mean they don't know what to know seem to they still don't, no. and the problem is not ethnic when there's no, it's idea logical. i mean there are germans. some germans of polls north seem to,

you know, to me, you know, the green party, they read that i left a variable on the list said i want the job to rocks, you know, in the budgets. i don't want this to be ever, ever used technically at north stim, 2 is radio, you know, the golf pro announced that was ready to start bumping, gave gas on the 1st of october. so the problem is no technical if, if i go to google and i will partially agree with what mark said about the russia escalations looking, but logan is mostly on the west side. on the russian side. maybe there will some bullshit. early decades on the soviet union because we wanted to remain europe. now, at least, you know, you know, you're in all my years and i have lived in russia all my life few years. i've never, i've never called the kid just said the sub dives. well, i mean the,

after what happened that, the limping game, but you will not see them, but you could no show the flag even the most like optimistic people are saying, oh look, these are the, you know, this is really get out of camp because his job yes, but the general, russia, you the culture and easy you will be in country and one so much to be where the europe but all the problem is that europe sound, i was just roles map and talking about the migration program, the market. so just mentioned, basically there were rumors, the blue question go, would use migrant back in the late ninety's. i mean, i read the border so i, i asked my readers to they read the frost magazine, read the news. we all got from the early to thousands late night just they have been suspected shinkel try to do that. you know, she didn't do that, but they suspected you and 20 years later, something like that happened. but when off the european boast,

unprecedented sanctions on billers against the industry against the can you me, you know, enterprises extract him and there was so, i mean, what do you expect the problem is that the of the west right now, the government and the media, the us, they use the creek that not the section used very often. they mix 40 to some morals, like if you want to dig the sanctions off. beller, bella, russia, because that's basically bill, which is a translation that was wide russia into bill or language. so if you, if you say i'm against the sanctions imposed, you're in a moral person. you're not suggesting a political solution. you are a traitor. you are in cahoots with lucas angle. this is the same way, the not just if you oppose people's corpus or just major political statement, journal opposing, shoot, what you are you, laurel, you know,

you don't the interesting thing is lisa, but when i look at them and bought them and they met and they were asking him, i'm dragging this tomorrow because they were asking me about their immigration policy. and he said, well, why don't you ask? it has nothing to do with rights. there was the webber, but in the, in the mainstream, it is somehow russians in cahoots with lucas shank to release immigrants into the european union. which, by the way, you know, colon in the baltic states, thinking about barriers and wall. i guess those barriers and walls are ok, but not at the american southern border, but i digress. go ahead. well, i think pizza banner, russia is under the spotlight now in the west because the west attempted to embellish basha last summer failed and it was always going to fail and fail abysmally. and as a result of that failure, the integration process between moscow and mints has received it as receives

a much needed emphasis just so much so that the re unification of russia. russia is very much something that is going to happen sooner rather than later. so the west is fine to stop. that's why are they trying to stop that? because, of course, bella, russia bowed, is on to poland. and nice. so is a poland. ne, so is beefing up its presence in poland, which i said that is a flagrant violation of the russia, of the name of found an act of $997.00. but in regard to these fossil qualifications, the west is made against russia. it's very clear that the west has never felt so emboldened before in that it makes allegations which have no substance to it whatsoever. and we have to ask the question, why do they feel so emboldened and i put it to the race?

and it's best that people in america and in britain no longer think independently or critically. they simply have this intrinsic, this absolute trust in what their politicians and journalists tell them. but also the average american, like the average britain, is more interested in their television programs. and celebrity culture and reality television, they no longer care what's happening in that society. let alone can what's happening in the why the wealth. so when the british major gives credence to polish claims that russia and bella russia, responsible, or could be responsible for the migration crisis and gulf in your average british person, the average american person would be happy to go along with that. it's a sad, depressing state of affairs d member last 45 seconds for this part of the program. again, ukraine is playing

a role in this year. the. the fact i'm agreeing with mark is here. the reason why nor stream one in 2 were built because ukraine was deemed as an unreliable transit partner and, and so that they're built. oh, okay. and now they're complaining about ukraine's energy and security. when you crane itself is responsible for that insecurity go ahead. deem both or you know, the west to us bill or was and it's the question will be gruel. look at the figures, unhook the fax, how much more gruel the ukrainian then you ukrainian government. i mean, it's not just using trying chance against the demonstrate this infusion plain, some tax, you know, the store the country and talking about the history on the guest by a point built by point. and we're going to go to a new words and some real estate with our over

the ah ah ah, ah, ah, software all things considered and peter all about this is the home addition storm and you were discussing some real news. ah.

okay, let's go back to the mate, went to the break to me, you want to make a point that we talk about iran and it's diplomatic initiatives. you go ahead just the thing is when the west that are under pressure for all the west rush should build a pipeline to pull up, you know, through the late nineties to the school europe and the russian suggestion was to connect this fire bar into the ukrainians. and the bolts refused for jo, political reasons, they said this can be used against ukraine. so this was, that's why russia had to build this huge pipeline. won't show me why the world would be, spend so much money because of all. and i would say very intransigent and very absurd position. and just to remind our, our, our us how we donate the staging involved in the approach of how can the invited states impose sanctions on fountain between russia and germany. what will happen in

russia and both sanctions on the pipeline between mexico and the states. okay. other than doing that, imagine what a scandal would be, or business, except in the western society, just something normal that the country that has nothing to do with this one is imposing sanctions threatens and, and i'm going to say present never, never frame that way demon. thank you for pointing that up or i want to switch gears here. the shanghai cooperation organization. iran will finally, after many years of petitioning, i become a member of that or organization. why is that important? markets go ahead? well, i should say, 1st of all, peter, my opinion on america and i kind of stone runs country. so many analysts and journalists are saying, because i do not believe america slash scottish stone. indeed, i believe that both america, britain have retains that influence and i'm going to stop by having come to an

informal agreement with the taliban because the telephone were never defeated militarily by america and britain. and secondly, it was just inconceivable that the telephone telephone on their own could have conquered afghanistan. i country so large, so the fine so diverse, different regions simply on their own notes. the american military gave the go ahead and also as well. america doesn't have to have soldiers in the country in order to control that country. it can control a country for control in this country's economy. turn into the shanghai cooperation organization. this is what it is. first go ahead is shanghai corporation organization is a your asian alliance including countries such as russia, china, central asia, and now iran. and it focuses on issues, i mean, for security to economy. so politics and it's

a very good alliance because it means that all of the countries involved on now, members of the same high cooperation organization and a wrong having been as mrs. so the alliance demonstrates how iran's influence not just in the mid the weights, but in the why the world is growing. and i consider it wrong. it makes sense to be very good, especially for the security of that region. yes, it will be good for trays, but i believe that there is of course, a very serious islamist terrorists presence, growing not just in central asia, but also in the west in the chinese region. are seeing shame. and i believe that iran as a result of its tremendous experience fighting against terrorism. also, it was a wrong that prevented the cancerous tentacles of the taliban from extend them into

the waste will be able now to share some information with countries in dfcs, such as russia and china, which will be imperative semen and the states in miss terrorism. and islamists in general infatuation states, but of course the americans who as i said, remain very much in africa, missed on will view. iran submitted admissions to the seo with increasing consternation because on the one hand that shows that surrounds influence is growing. secondly, the shanghai corporation organization has grown to such an extent now that the americans are exceedingly wary. and the concern by its mark has brought it up when he missed the binding, the, the shanghai cooperation organization. you know, people in the west, my li, stupidly making some kind of comparison with nato, which is, it's not ok because, you know, the, the security element may be there. definitely. counterterrorism. yes,

definitely there. but there is the commercial economic element that is key to the functioning of this organization. and this is why this is such a wind ran because they're breaking out the isolation, the maximum pressure warning that the us is the bite against the rain waiting economy. so this is a very significant move, and this organization covers the, or a land bass bass. okay. and, and this is a, certainly a counselor to the hedge, a monic, a us, as for the, your age of land. go ahead. well, i will that to what market for just right. you said that there are some kind of cooperation relation was founded in 1997 on china's initiative and then allow it not only, and course your iran, if you go to india and pakistan a scope. basically when we're told by the western need, you're all there is so much contradiction between china. i just found the hate each

other somehow. well the night to stay. so the west is not in the wall. they can be members of the same organization. and they children of yours just woke at all. there is a notion statement from their shanghai corporation organization from our collective security organization csu. you will never find anything that guard against a particular country. every statement stops with their preamble, that su is not directed against any particular country in the world. you know, this is very different from a drug. you're right. comparisons with need to make no sense because natal open recalls russia. you remember how hillary clinton clinton called gosh, i hostile nation. and we all remember how need to even statement talked about adverse theory. you know, china send in your reference and almost in a, in the me. so this is basically, this is what, this is what, what is making as your so different from, from need to. it's a peaceful,

actually nation, not directed against a particular country. and why does it make the state of the west so angry because it shows that you and d, d inside the same are going to zation despite differences cultural political differences. and the idea is to justify barton and he's still insist on having this democracy is versus of better theory. and they sounded before that over here are thought it would be possible after again, a barcode, because just me to remind you that again, for many years was the most important nato l. i outside the organization. you remember and look what happened to it. and the coming back to what we were talking about in the 1st part of the program. if we accept idea or by the 3rd, you markers just and the creatures right. then the why i people believe suppose the

democratic iraq symposium, a craig libya. why are they lean to equally pro v bit and to beller, bella russia from iraq if iraq is so human critic, why are the change in it for the authoritarian bill? it was. so there are so when you think that just don't add up in the western in the world. so is there a page from your book? i mean, when you put everything into an ideological lens, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. and that's exactly what these people do. mark, this is something that iran is really push for for very, very hard. i think they had observers status starting in 2005 if i'm not mistaken. so this is a windfall for them. and it shows that the, the american lead campaign crusade by can use that word against the, ran a show slowly, but surely eroding, coming apart here. the country is very much self sufficient in many ways because of the sanctions. and now the massive economy deal made with china that over the next

quarter century. and this is a new page for ram. i mean, it seems to me, they've made it through the worst year in lisa as far as the american policy against the ram. and i think as you pointed out, the region is going to be far more safer because there is real terrorism there. and having these and these cut all of these countries feel it. okay. and is there a common enemy? so i think that instead of coddling and protecting isis and the $31.00 flavors of g hon. these countries, michelle corporation organization are actually serious and biting it. go ahead, mark one pizza. iran for over 42 years now has withstood a terrible terrific power raj sanctions placed on it by america. and yet iran not only has withstood the boss but iran has grown stronger and stronger. and its recent admission to the s c o demonstrates that iran is more than just

a regional player now. and it also goes to show how, how close iran's relations, political, economic, and military relations with both russia and china all because of course, moscow and beijing off the factory lasers. ready that's indisputable. iran has a very close relationship with china. and slide paging was more than happy for iran to be admitted. but even more important than that's, iran has a strategic partnership with the russian federation. that's on its own has changed, the dynamics has changed the dimensions of the made the waste because no longer is iran face in america on its own like it for you in the 19 eighties and during the 1990s. so of course the kremlin was very happy to see its strategic

partner. it made it to the s c other and the americans and the british who are very much in afghanistan. and of course, the taliban will continue to do the bidding on behalf of their western patrons to feel fractions, because it's just russia and china and iran, as dmitri directly said, india and pakistan are also members of the young. so the americans can't help feeling somewhat strengthened by these countries being in the sea because they are surrounding they also around in africa song. and it's no coincidence. i have a pizza that just stays after the taliban conquerors. afghanistan, the taliban announced that they would guarantee the security of western pipelines in afghanistan. that was very italian. and then days after that the c i a director match with the leadership of the pilot. and that was so very talent. and i believe

that sooner rather than later, you will see washington and london establish diplomatic relations. and those relations are there. okay, well that the, the, the last page that saga has yet to be written. i agree with much of what you have to say, but i think of the an idea for a separate programs. i want to thank my guess in london and here in moscow big years. we're watching of your r t c. next time. remember, the ah, rather driven by remove shaped by bankers than those in me. there's

things we dare to ask. oh, is your media a reflection of reality? the in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? type relation. community. are you going the right way, or are you being that somewhere? direct? what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to this end ah, to join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah,

the ah, so many social democrats declare victory election results in the nations federal ballot see the central fancy finish the head of anglo michael, c. d, which itself slumped, distorts low. but late the never media groups finally express concern over the claims c. i was talking to kidnap and potentially kill julian songs allegations currently being reported by yahoo news. so they were the 1st to fun investigative journalists last year, including here on our team. i obtained an email. morales is employees who were involved in the operation, just not just spy on julian, astonish.