humans, we want to be part of the crowd. ah ah, us lawmakers aren't pulling their punches as they grilled the american military top breast boy 2nd day with some in congress on washington, humiliating exit from afghanistan. it was an extraordinary disaster. it will go down in history is one of the greatest failures of american leaders. russia threatened to block you 2 in the country after the video sharing platform, permanently delete parts. the german language channel. moscow says that the u. s. company would not have acted without approval from berlin. nato says extra troops to kosovo, admit in the arm, to stand up with serbia over wrote accent. is your headline,

and that does it for me that not boring. my colleague movie during that time with a look at your new that would be a new farmer and they were the, are the ah, with ah hello and welcome to cross top where all things considered. i'm peter live out as anglo merkel makes her exit from german politics. voters have made it clear they are looking for new ideas and directions. wrinkles party suffered electoral defeat with smaller parties in the mix to form a new governing coalition. will this be called to merkel inheritance the

the cross talking the german elections. i'm joined by my guess, man quarter up in london. he's a professor of political science and international relations and coventry university, as well as the author of the book angler merkel. europe's most influential leader in frankfort. we have are like, broken now. he is a political analyst and professor of political science at stanford university in berlin. and in princeton we cross the harold james. he's a professor of history and international affairs at princeton university. his latest book is the war of ideas, a glossary of globalization, right? tillman cross talk rules and effect. that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate, it's go to you 1st in frankfurt, you're in germany here, before we talk about the, the election and what comes next. what is the legacy of anglo merkel? i mean, she is a towering figure in european politics has been for a very long time. she weathered quite a few crisis. these people have praised her,

of others have criticized her. but no matter what she made a huge mark in german politics in europe. european politics in general, what is her legacy? on the one hand, there are great achievements. she come off the and managing crisis, being why it's managing one step at a time and financial crisis decrease crisis. the migration crisis breaks condemning. so everyone trusted as the successful crisis manager at the same time if you're trying to science, which is what you always described, the way she's, she's not as pretty chic thinker, which means that it's 16 years, we never got a sense of what she wants, that you are in union come, she didn't support mark hall sufficiently with idea what direction he wants to guide the european union. so domestically she appreciate

it and people respect her across the party back from literally speaking on the european level. that's quite well, let's here, let me go to you in princeton. i mean for what we just heard there. she's a good manager, but not much of a politician. and in looking at the election, it seemed a lot about policy and not so much about politics, which is really quite strange because if you look at france, it's very, very political hungry poll. and there is a lot of politics going on. but the german election, a very much policy driven, is that a reflection of anglo merkel and her inheritance for germany? go ahead in princeton. yes, peter, it's great to be with you and i think you're right on that. this was not a political election. there wasn't a big clash of ideas in germany, so it's very unlike france with the macro depend race or artist johnson against jeremy corbin are in the united states. they trump biden

story and a, one of the things i think it's important to realize is 1st the major people who presented themselves as possible candidates for being chance. they're all presented themselves as the continuation of mac or as so the c d u candidate was obviously the anointed air in the punch. it shows in the s b d. it was also really very much emphasizing the continuity and he looks like a figure who emphasizes the continuity with mrs. macro, also with him, which mich getting back into the seventy's and eighty's and somebody who's tremendous new respect to exactly the same way as miss. and that was as a centrist trigger, a crisis manager. and i think the complaint about not having a strategy is not quite right. i mean, mrs. macro had a view of what globalization means. it means germany on its own

can't really operate effectively. it needs a bigger unit, so it needs a european ational and she was pushing that and i think it's, it's unfair to say that mrs. mackerel didn't really understand europe the necessity as moving forward in europe. but europe is a very diverse country. so i think you can actually expect a lot of continuity and say there's a recognition that there's a need to change. the specific policies to deal with that changed are not really clear. and everybody, for instance, thinks that this policy needed to deal with climate change was ready to emissions every exactly the mechanism by which that's going to be achieved because it's going to be on popular. i think putting up gasoline prices will bring up heating prices and you saw the reaction against that in france with julie shawn. so

there's a lot of debates in the coming weeks and months since the government is formed about exactly how that strategy is going to be implemented. you know, mad, one of the interesting things we look at the 2 major voting blocks in 2017, it was different. now we see that miracles blocking took a slight electoral defeat here, but i don't see that, you know, again we've, we've mentioned the u. s. in france and all that, it's so contentious. i mean, you would think with this kind of election outcome, it would be, you know, they would be slugging it out. but actually the, the, the center is very much coveted and german politics. and i want to talk about the smaller parties because there's growing fragmentation. but it's really interesting is that even if you disagree with anglo merkel, there is this sense it's built in that we need continuity. why is that? is it because of the last series of crises that we're, we heard mentioned before, go ahead in london. because germany, berkeley and spence, conservative reform in order to maintain it. she's all those journals are the

carbon copy of the definition of a true. so the, to teach in my political theory. you know, you only make changes in order the same. and what is interesting about german politics is that in a way, it's become more in the logical sense, conservative just maintaining that the status quo, and keep going wasting. and what is also interesting is that the other predictor policies, for example, we start with the vertical ti drinking. why? why this have moved to the center? there was a lecture that jordan, how big are going to be going to be just on the 17th day of the christ and democratic policy where they said it was safe and last to go find unique football team or politics always win. and it was almost as if there was been corruption on the ground. so everybody is trying to be the chris, which is

a party that very interesting the, the 1st 35 years. why didn't have a program sometimes don't as a counselor. so an organizer like to talk. so german politics, well, very good story to reset my school there much more about why, but we all know there's some given politics. one where rich mac is the, as a problem is they've been the or. ready and, and nobody, once i get mad you, you took the words right out of my mouth because christmas not a word that you applied to german politics, particularly in the last election. but there's nothing wrong with that. ok. let's go back to our guest in frankfort. you know, we talked about merkle and her, the, and the, and, and her major opponents, s p d. but the next government is going to be made up of the pie breaker. the king

makers are going to be the smaller parties, the green parties, liberals like that. i mean, is this where the continuity and change meet. go ahead and frankfurt. well, 1st of all, to clarify what i meant in my 1st tape, and i never said the euro. i said that she never presented the station where she wants europe to guide. and if we compare this with science was most likely the next chancellor said when we formed the next generation, you hope that makes recovery package. he called madison moment that the european union was finally something like a union, as a stabilizing macroeconomic specter to make some money to union more robust economy crisis. so that might be something that we will see happening in a lot of the specially the next receiving countries waiting for such know that

germany is not taking responsibility. be more away from what used to be the old song of therapies. we have to keep our budget in order when it comes to. he's also not so much about therapies. p e a rather wants to push germany to invest in on an annual basis to find the needs are coming years. and his priority as the head of the party, of course is address climate. so in case we will be, i think we're listen happening. we have a coalition of being part of the social democrats pushing the direction, which would also be beneficial for you and the expect the liberal party that was always addressing your off. we would build

a money pipeline to the south, and then we would all only waste taxpayer money. so they will be in the german government before we even reach the european level. harold, where was europe in this election? it was, and i want to talk about foreign policy in the 2nd half of the program. it was, it was re money. i'm talking to harold here in print. i mean, i've, i'm really remarkable because germany is the engine for better or worse if you like . it or not, of the european project there, and it wasn't on the ballot as it were. go ahead. harold was, i think, in a way, yeah, sure. but you're right on that. it really was on the, in this all the main policies in the political center where explicitly pro european and that includes the f t p by the way you enter europe and poverty at the f t a did very badly. and really only one votes in east germany at the same is true

about the party. it was the former communist party to p d. s. it also did badly got under 5 percent of the vote as still represented in the parliament though because of the peculiarities of the german election. but also really just in the eastern germany. and so in effect there's a anti european feeling in parts of eastern germany. but absolutely known in the old federal republic and there's an enormous consensus if there's an enormous consensus. you don't really need to have a disagreement about virtue in public order. it doesn't appear very prominent. harold, i have to jump in here. i have to go to a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the german election. stay with our team. the ah

. when i would chose the wrong one, i'll just don't any new world yet to shape out. the thing becomes the attitude, an engagement equal betrayal. when so many find themselves will depart, we choose to look for common ground. lack of universal healthcare makes america the country of every man for himself. we have a retirement crisis in this country and we have a health care crisis for seniors in this country as well. so private business has come up with a special mechanism for that. it's called the live settlement market. we are a life settlement provider, which means that we buy life insurance policies from primarily seniors throughout

the united states who no longer want or can afford their life insurance policies. if you are sick and for want to live a few more years, you can sell your life insurance. that way you get more money right away and the company collects your insurance payment after your death. and there's a group of people out there, i guess, hoping that people die soon. what kind of motivation is i give them when i start crying about them dying? that's usually what it's about. it's just the sheer unfairness of it all. imagine picking up a future textbook on the early years of the 21st century. what other chapters called gun violence school shootings, homelessness 1st, it was my job and then it was my name was my savings. i have nothing. i have nothing and it's not like i don't try. i look for resources, i look for jobs, i look for everything i can to make this pass. and all i end up doing is testing

the road to the american dream. paved with dead refugees at this very idealized image of the older america, native americans look past the death that happened every single day. this is a modern history of the usa. america on r t ah, welcome back to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter le belts remind you we're discussing the german elections. the ok when i want to go to matt. but before i ask a question, i want to address harold. i didn't, i didn't want to give the impression that there was an anti european sentiment on the ballot when i was saying a vision per europe moving forward, a fiscal policy,

things like that. i obviously the center is very pro european union. and so i want to make back their match, as harold will say, something that a famous famous slogan that how much mit had a long time ago. but his widely widely repeated about visions in politics in ships said, if you have a vision, you should go in consulting eye, doctor, and consulting optician. that's probably why. okay. matt, joy, when harold was answering his last question before i went to the break you what you raise your hand one to jump in, please do right now. go ahead, matt. yeah, so 1st of all that quote, i think he actually did not say titian was more more so, but i think one of the things that he's the legacy of the medical in a negative sense comes back to the wrong profile. important. you made the wrong peter about the difference between policy and politics of policy is about what

works. that politics, according to the famous german definition, is fear, way between grand and enemy and in politics where he has too many friends and enemies shouldn't be fighting. but you need an element of that sort of hash june of emotion. and i think the vote of medical has had, is that she's been very good and policy making very good, a government by a spreadsheet. but sometimes you need a little bit more, especially when you feel that your identity might be and i agree with us. so by the way, you know, the division of politics between friend and enemy, that was a definition that was produced by cow schmidt. you really were very, very close to the nazi party and it's exactly the vision is something that you have and well divided into friends and enemies with a 0 sum game. and they all tentative view is a view in which you do cooperation and you to tradeoffs and you, you make compromises. and that's a, that's

a realistic and productive view of the world. it's, it's not, it's not a bad view or it's, it's actually a very constructive view. it can be very constructive. you the problem that i was going tonight was that uncle me, i can see still focusing on the, the emotional side of politics. and when people in eastern europe, in particular, felt that there was globalized station, there were seem regression of the slide that then they have been basically won't see more politics and less of a c. and i think the paradox that i'm glad that you can. so focus on on a see that she has failed to recognize. we were the fears of those when america might be called the left and especially people, eastern europe, eastern german, 4 ways to germany, who vote for the a f d or. ready d link s t yes. ok, let's go back to our guest and praying for a talk about the, the, the greens and the,

the other small parties here. because it's very interesting that the greens didn't do as well as so many had hoped a few months ago. but if you look at the who voted for him, it was remarkably large number of young people. and in that sense, the climate was on the ballot. and, and we, what i'm getting at here is there's a generational change going on. now, how do you put that into the mix here because we still have this kind of very traditional set of parties that we're all familiar with here. but, you know, the green party, in my mind is kind of a wildcard, because even though it didn't do as well as people expected, its voting bass is pretty fervent and, and quite large when you, when you look at the demographics, what do you think about that go ahead. remarkable because it all started and i just party and now they are conservative and they want to conserve the environment. what we also see is supported by young people,

but young people don't a country that have a serious problem when elections in the center elections, where the old people at mca managed to deal with the old voters from the social democrats. i'm being the concept of the party, the magic corner from conservative to the center that allows her to really 4 times . now that the new leaders tried to move the conservative party back to where it came from. every one went back to the social democrats, and the social democrats won the elections with voters, which means that old people are afraid of change, and they are now pushed by the liberals that one young voters party support us are young and it will be a very interesting coalition, if it's a conservative change from the green party, has a different understanding of conservatism, they'll also progressive together with the liberal party faces to slow down. not so

fast, not democratic understanding of what leadership is you know, herald. one of the things i liked about the german election is how people coined these words for potential coalition. so i'm gonna read off a few of the traffic white coalition, the grand coalition that can you coalition, the jamaica coalition, there actually a few other ones with colors here. what's this going to look like over the next few weeks, maybe months here? what is going to be the bones of contention? what's going to be the deal breaker for a coalition to come into existence? go ahead. harold and kristen will indeed say the party is all have colors that are associated with them. and so it's easy to refer to the possible coalitions by the name of national flags that happened to be in the color. so they, germany, coalition, for instance, says black red gold or back red yellow is black

for the christian democrats. read for the democrats, yellow for the liberals, and fundamentally point i think it is a rather peculiar one. that is that everybody is fed up with the great coalition, with s p d c, d u coalition. although actually looking at it numerically, that would make the greater sense in that those are the 2 largest parties and they probably could just have a very, very narrow majority in the parliament. there's a feeling better tired. and even though the parties are very, very close in political doctrines, they didn't want to do that. and i think that makes the point again, that this is largely about personalities rather than a concrete policies liberal. so say, i think is being shipped by both national reach, the liberals,

our more to the rights on economic policy on financial policy and more resistant to the idea of a debt to europe is ation a hamiltonian moment. and the s p d and the greens would like to put up texas. so there's going to be really a substantial debate about that. and i think, you know, both actually reflect elements are profoundly represented in the german psychic, another favorite german phrase that gets recycling again and again is from good his house to so's dwell in my breast at try zealand vaughn. and i can buy the pros and j one, so says you should do things, you should be collective and you should have a collective vision and the other. so says you need to be careful and cautious, and it's a good idea to save in order to prepare your so for future catastrophe is one of

the reasons that the german government had a big room from a new going into the cove. it crisis into the pandemic with really unprecedented economic. suddenly shocked was exactly that they accumulated the strong cisco position. they have a much greater room from the new and so the f t p. 's words on caution, i think are also heated by shots and shells. there's not a wire spend it passed and he's cautious and he's right to be cautious. he does seem to me to be exactly the to him which met and he is sometimes make something of that, you know. and but madness doesn't. the grand coalition make more make sense to continue here because of the moderation and holding onto the center here because we look at these other party, the smaller party they all last in, in vote compared to the last general election for the parliament here. so i mean, what do you say with what works, but i know people didn't like the grand coalition,

but it was because the, and particularly going through all of the crises that we've seen over the last few years. do you think it inevitably that's going to be it? i mean, it's fun to tinker on the sides, but is it? is it time to have fun is time to be tinkering? go ahead, man. i think the, the, the vanity of the, of the green policy and the liberal possible received them into government. i think it is conceivable that christian, a liberal leader will become finance minister that either lead to be up or with the foreign minister. i'm calling the, the vice chancellor and then shows would be the chancellor and that would give him a sort of support and they will be then pretty happy with those issues. the thing in germany, which is that in 65 of the constitution says the charles lays out the guidelines all this. so the chancellor is slightly more than a prime minister. you set the tone and so on. so the other ones would get energy

points and they would be able to, if somebody would be, know why that passes either go up or down, they will be happy with that. i mean, before does she go last time, the liberals were kicking up a bit faster than they ended up not going. it's collision. social democrats bear with dragged kicking and screaming into coalition government and, and for more time in a last. so i think the conservative cd you, i'm the c su, very important would not want to go into college because they would have to be junior. that's right there, the flip. yeah. right. let me go to you in frankfort here to finish off here. what's your price? what's your one minute when? what's your prognosis or we're going to get what kind of government go ahead. i think lasha max, it's a political some be, he's already dad, but she's not aware of it. and the only reason why liberals and reading parties give him the feeling that it's still a life is that it helps them to put pressure on us for the street like

coalition to raise the price for what they get in return for election. that's the only reason and no one neither on the democrat side, nor on the conservative side could ever imagine that with a result like this and you want in germany would accept. they continue with the grand coalition that only switch stuff. this is a no go and jamaica. it's only a part a chip, while the ongoing, precise, well listen talk and that, and it remains to be seen at what position, which is very important given the large eagle off the head of our okay, what we run out of time gentlemen. but one thing is pressure angland, miracles presence is going to be felt for a long time to come. many thanks to my guest, said london, frankfurt and in princeton. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our tc next time. and remember, cross talk the

the, the, me and i make no borders line to nationalities as emerge. we don't have authority, we go to the back scene, the whole world needs to take action and be ready. people judge, you know. 2 come crisis we can do better, we should be better. everyone is contributing each in their own way, but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is paid for the response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are together

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