thank you very much for finding the time. thank you for having me. now, you know, last week i spoke to your colleague from india and predictably he's reaction to what's going on in afghanistan was very, very bitter. but as far as i can gather on your side, it's quite the opposite. you wrote, based on the pakistan and afghanistan for the last 20 years has been proven accurate. what makes you believe that? because pakistan always indicated that there should be a political solution because we talk military ripley was not possible, not desirable for 17 and a half years. you know, just it did not believe until it decided to engage in box with the taliban and her there. well, it was we actually want and that even the afghan government under the factions would also be associated because an inclusive piece is something that we would be

what invested because bucks on had been so severely impacted by the state. but if you know that, i'm glad that finally the political process started. but unfortunately, the rush of benny did not engage in enough gone talk seriously. and the rest is history. but even now on message because he thought it on should be that distributed to some additional big everybody along was that we need it peaceful effect sun. let us a far as they type it then and again is done in bias. i reach, you know, is a controversial subject. we all know from historic experience that the athens are fiercely independent than they do not submit easily to a foreign fashion. but i think it's also well known that there is some degree of understanding between pakistan and the taliban. how big is that understanding or influence in your estimation and how can one talk to the taliban so that they would listen rather than resist the taliban and bulk of the african

balaban gander is and has been in afghanistan all alone. and we have been maintaining that there are team 1000000 refugees and sometimes on valuable. don't visit bogus. and that's the only leverage we had on them. unfortunately, the united states government and the afghan is done, government kept on defeating this mantra. bear valley bond have shaped trees in pakistan, which was not effect her and her as a result. they were using this to justify their lack of success or failure in one of their military strategy. and my son was consistently saying that no go back to earth, look inside afghanistan, or all the solutions. and not in august that bogus on actually would not like to have any proxy or any previous in including oh, with all due respect,

ambassador in that really am geopolitically on is because i, you know, all of the countries that have security interest in afghanistan, they do have certain proxy forces there, i mean, that makes sense from the point of view of both intelligence and security. so how can you claim, or argue that pakistan who have none or would want to have known when your basic security so tightly lead to that country. i think it's important at this point in time for every country or more. so the legion lucas is of fan, is on the neighbors of badness than to start respecting of, understand as an independent sovereign country. we have seen that intervention was twice or get union than by united states. every man is man, i think we should give the people who understand it big or so. my sense is that there should be no proxies enough done by any country. and i know that india didn't

use of swale against pakistan, but i am saying that no gun, montoya, or any strategic objective of any technical. that's the best treatment and respect we can give to the people that i want to tell them came to power on 25 years ago. pakistan was one of the very few countries to officially recognize that government . do you think history? i will repeat this and if so, how quickly? i hope it does not because i think the taliban offer yesterday. is there a way to do ology and this time around this seem to be more market. they have made certain commitments. there made a commitment that there will be amnesty for all they have made a commitment that women will be allowed to work and study. and then they will not allow us entities to, to make good, to use a full on soil against anyone. and they have also a sort of committed that we have an inclusive government. now,

all these for them to me, it, it, if they honor that i, you can see it very positive response from all countries, especially the regional countries and international community. but the door in the fall on those for commitments i, i think that they will not be doing any service 2 of them. i think the issue of our international recognition is a very thorny and very fasting one. not only for the taliban, but also for the so called international community, because everybody has very strong reasons to do that. and not to do that. as long as the taliban is listed as a terrorist organization by the united nations. we have to recognize that any contacts with down, formally speaking is a violation of international law. so my question to you is, would you rather see all those countries, russia, pakistan, india, china, the united states. again, everyone who is in any shape or form is involved in the region,

i'm attaining certain contacts with the talent, and would you rather continue seeing them do that covertly or rather coming to compliance with the international that they themselves created a few years ago? yeah, you see the united states was the 1st one to wiley, that the brother, 67 un security council sanctions regime. and this started talking to the 31st over 3. then honestly, so that was kind of recognition dog. the thought about as a political intern go to entity, i don't tank now. people can turn around and asked by august on these are the other, why are you talking to them? they're all have to do to them because we're, we needed the end of the days. he's full of guns. and that can't happen until you brought to the doctor the thought about and of course, other african fractions. i fully understand the logic from the real politic

perspective, but i'm asking you about the respect of international lawyers. it's not about the americans. i mean, unless you treat them as a sort of a little guardian of that law. but if we, as international community, russia, pakistan, and other countries, if we read that international law, should we deal with that moment, not from reality, reality perspective. but from the, from the legal perspective and the perspective and absolutely legally speaking, a valuable i'm now involved in a for that is done. and they have given certain commitments and it been on of those commitments. and i think this would be an, a recommend a counterpart commitment from the international community them from that that the sanctions regime. and i think that that would probably be a necessity. now there were just like pakistan and northern india were part of one

states. i think you would recognize that that country has deep connections to india and security interest and you rush and security interest to pakistan, security interest, and pretty much everyone who is in the region has say in afghanistan, do you think all these varied and sometimes very opposite security interest could be well aligned with some semblance of harmony. i mean, the only alignment that he'll bring be store every one bill would be in diary. janisa for that is that if offline is done, is we are seeing that there's been military action that have been spent on whatever else was going on. we have seen that it has led well the instant before i believe that every country, every country should respect the sovereignty of an understand alert to let this piece be a full on lead and a plan on. however, that said, i think the legion has

a responsibility to facilitate that these who are since the land foreman isn't the cruise, who government undone bit affairs as a normal country. now speaking about regions responsibility, a few weeks ago, indian prime minister there under mother was addressing one of the big russian conferences. and he specifically mentioned the situation in afghanistan and mentioned this indian concept of son, gama, which in sanskrit means the confluence of several big rivers. do you think you think that's just a beautiful rhetorical tool or is it something that has strategic necessity or perhaps strategic conditions to be realized for the benefit of your age as a hall? the m. m. national boys of august on la make by gord of con, is done, is hard to fish here. that if your heart is weak, the entire continent will be weak. so there have been different phrases to describe

the importance of punishment. there's no doubt about it that a plan is done as a religion connecting the sub regions of south asia, recitations until issue is no doubt about it. color with that said, i think i'm on my saying, but we did not see india playing in it, playing a positive role there been trying to use a foot on intelligence to sponsor and be boxed on elements like that. he get to live on august on like, look, just on liberation, army, and others to create and stimulate inbox. and we were constantly saying that the of non government must not give up space to india who is using the land toil to create a double squeeze against bucks them from east and west to affirm situation. been for, i don't know what mr. m. worthy had in mind when he said that he did a some them, but probably it is important that we realize that we need this sunday to be more peaceful now because it is one of the sun can ensure more stability knowledge. now

us thinking about stability as civil governments and the world for the most part has now assumed wait and see attitude towards the talent which i know some in pakistan have criticized and dangerous. i wonder what do you think would work better? sort of waiting and seeing the talent to prove itself as a legitimate government and only that for them funds and expertise to rebuild the country or on the country. offer assistance now and by that sort of pay to wait for the town to grow into a legitimate government. i think humanitarian assistance should be extended to regardless because the people must not be there must not be allowed to land is desperate situation. i think that the international community and the regional countries for 2 anyway, and as for technical assistance to run the government and do, and to financial assistance at mice. it is my sense that all countries of the

region are already talking to each other. they are coordinating because they want to coordinate and response. i think there is an expectation in amongst the regional countries that lead now that united has moved away and it is their responsibility to assist of man is that establish conditions of peace? well, in the been in the country are the same time i think been for austin, demands all united states, not to abandon of sunday responsibility. they were here for 20 years. they need to support a condition of peace. enough gone is done and i wrote them to stay engaged. and henceforth, silva for in a denison has been a recipient of assistance for more than 4 days. and i think it's fair to say that it has never been efficiently used or even appreciated. and i her, i heard you say recently in one of your species that i guess that has everything it

needs to make its own living and handsomely so and preserve its independence and sovereignty in that way. can you speak more about that? yes, certainly, i think so because the amazon is an inch country in many ways. no one, it is a 2 by august on it is it has access to box any ports. are it furnishing by letter trade with by august on and also get it on and others and everyone is on his regina window. so if the conditions of peace can be established, i'm sure china and, and, and others would like to invest. the ne, also know that he's done can earn a lot from the transit fees. if it allows these energy central ish here to send. and as you flows to south asia, understand it, i b, b, i took medicine, i gas pipeline does be name i did as you from a plan is from badge on and get this done. so i see that if this initial free as

can be or what and thought about are able to use the conditions and expectations from the regional candy. i see that it will be an inch going to be it can be a little bit more both a very short short break on this very positive note will be back, especially in just a few moments station. ah, a person who has driven by dreamers shaped by concur some of those with

who dares sinks. we dare to ask and join me every thursday on the alex salmon. so i'll be speaking to guess in the world of politics, sport, business, i'm show business. i'll see you then. mm. ah, well come back to all the parts with my child to be directed general on the institute of strategic studies about pakistan or master to the united states ambassador before the break. we were talking about a unique position as

a transit country, but you also mention that sitting on dairy large mineral beaches, it has large deposits of precious and rare materials, particularly as we know that in the day and age china and the west are embroiled in very very big battles for the strategic control of those deposits. how do you see that playing out in the next few years and they can do that as a, as a blessing or a curse as far as the future development of i've got is kind of concerned. i think it depends how it turns out. a united states sir competition with china, and i hope that it does not enter offline his son and his member. well, i believe a plan is done, and the people of afghanistan deserved her dad bare minerals, his exploited in a more systematic manner. and the fluids off bad development. go to the directly to

the people off of that country and in there should not be a competition or rivalry between any countries. and it was 3 or more countries or bad. i think people of afghanistan, at least we owe it to them because for 40 years they have suffered enormously. we owe it to them. and so if conditions of peace can be establish an honest abolition, it is my sense that the book, china and branch united states to be corporate america would likely invest. and he's a big company. there are different areas where it can be invested. and i think those kind of investment and one more area, if i meant dimension extension all for a c back, dyna, pakistan. economic. got it, or both china and bugs that have given this indication that we would like to extend this back to a funny sound. in fact, if you come from the other, the southern port in the indian ocean upward, the 1st port of trust,

your own point is a kind of city of cannot. if you just spend a rest a little bit. and if you keep going, and you can also, you know, benefit east of that is that, but my sense is that there is a desire amongst the regional companies and hopefully amongst the western digital data for understand should be a place where we should invest and let the fruits descend to the people on amazon as well. well, if you will also to handle the ability of the taliban to manage countries enormous tractors and people. and this leads me to my next question because we know the aside is by governing, even in accordance with serial law is a very different than their tedious challenge. a towel bond fighting on foreign invaders versus a taliban running its own domestic affairs. do you think there will be different than i do? they have to be different. fighting in a buying force is one thing,

but plenty of countries is another thing. and that is why all these 4 conditions and commitments that they had made them who made that commitment and the international community and they do in florida might have an expectation from about one to one of those commitments. because we believe that if they don't, then you know, it would be difficult for them, but under and they would need technical assistance, financial assistance, all the have to go in the country before that they have to show that they're ready for a national division surrounding of a hearing wars or before about growing internal tries those talent on fridays that need controlling history and other african cities on, on this same talent functionaries negotiated with the american c.

doha, do you think the tower than later, to spend the last 20 years and do you think they have enough authority to shape the van from the brown? a will have to reconcile with because fighting force is one and a good thing force is another. and therefore, they will have to manage this transition so far in the last 20 years times prediction. and of course one made by anyone on spring. but that did not happen. i think the leader continued to enjoy the authority or no, no, he can keep the won't gather in go on. this is something that i will teach. i would not like to enter into speculation rather than this bill that i do hope that they are able to manage the country in

a manner that it brings peace otherwise they all. busy sent to lou and we all center. now you mentioned before, all the commitments that they found and made so far and a gave the international community, you know, the kind of crazy that, that community wanted to hear on women's visor and city. although, although that is a yes to be, you know, put into actual policies on catch phrase that i think it's because the missing from all the statements is democracy or democratic transition. do you think the talent could and should be prior to that? and the kind of democratic procedure is that the previous african governments maintain. but i am certainly know on, in a position to dictate or i think it as to what the order should be.

because i believe that the, even if the on the action would go in the democratic order, they will probably be been gone. 6, your special value. i have to say, no, i am, i am going to be more than this because if you are expecting the non government will be in the image. ok, a see, and i'm sorry, this is a wrong expectation. you will have to see if one is done. you won't be a big julie entities, you've gone to you was the democratic system on both branch involved and the political order. that's my, my sense. okay, let me be a devil's advocate for a moment because earlier in the discussion we mentioned this wait and see approach

at many countries have adopted. so is that, is there anything in your you that will won't be able to see and time coming from the taliban? i personally feel that if the dial a bond go back to their ways of 1990 s when they were involved, i don't think they're going to be serving themselves any favor any. but they've got to be more inclusive. you've got to carry others along and they're working on of those commitment. that's my sense. if the door i, i'm afraid there would be difficulties and i will they follow through their committee. and finally, if i may let me draw on your experience as kind of sense ambassador to the united states and ask you specifically about a possible ties with the united states on these new interior met ministration, which includes figures i, mr. jaime, who was pointed to the interior ministry despite being on the most want at

least and 5 credible before that he may still be holding an american hostage g thing. washington will still want some sort of a relationship with the new or a capital. or do you think that that relationship may already have been established? the americans have been talking to the dollar bond for the us to do and a half years and nothing has really changed in that sense. and since the deal, in february 2020, it was the same bond and they can go to their d. m. now that they've been drawn, that has been in austin, the mon, the american association from all the channels that you should stay engaged, that you are all the people who understand what blood has been shed. so much destruction has happened and you need to support the process,

offer you peace and development in afghanistan. how will that happen in to ship if of a gun, if united states actually disengages itself from a non completely, then i'm sure there will be problems because you're not sure that the eminent bought on the evidence sponsibility to so much of the but. and so i think it will not be fair. what the nights are say, oh, it's a regional problem. then these are countries 100. we have nothing to do with that. i don't think that's a good idea. i think i just need to stay in gauge. i think the regional countries need to play their part and all of that in focus of the city can be seen of understand, do you think the united states, after all the humiliation that it has endured during the withdrawal the, you know, those massey and science from rick seen from the airport if you'd be able to come to the regional table as one of many, certainly an important player and vital player player. but one of many are ready to

consult and maybe can gauge with others. or do you think this well, you know, old american attitude and a lot of them to get to send in the 1st place is still there. i think all countries and i can certainly speak for august on have been had been constantly telling the united states that we would expect is responsible for all i think the idea was. busy that if united golden in his it could be what happened? you know, but unfortunately, debate would doubt that it just ended up making a deeper goal. and we saw that valuable board in just 11 days and all of their expectations and random and, and up on national, on maybe or turned out to be false. now, united states should, i think in the division other countries awoke out

a strategy. the government get us to see that there is a more stable political dispensation than the one. i mean, they formed no chair to be so much of money and which would not sustain even little pressure. and the guy, much not me, did not put on all any fight at all. so i do you have the responsibility still to stay engaged with? well, i'm back there. we have to leave it there. i hope you're the latest you will be, jack indicated, just as much as back as those strategy. you know, guys done over the last 20 years. i really hope that americans come to this region as somebody who wants to contribute rather than somebody who wants to control anyway. we have to live there. thank you very much for your a much. thank you. thank you, and thank you for watching hope to see you again next week on wells apart. ah

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new quote is researchable. can listen, can easement league shall i tell her what happened? i make no certainly no borders the keys and you as a marriage, we don't have a charity. we don't to look back seen the whole world needs to take action and be ready. people are judgment, common crisis with we can do better, we should be doing better. everyone is contributing each in their own way. but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is great, the response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel

very proud that we are in it together with ah, in the headlines this, our, on our, to international, the offshore assets of hundreds of the world's most powerful and riches people are revealed in the biggest ever leak of such data called the pandora papers and one it confirms the u. s. as a top global tax haven, no well known american people or firms of mention. despite president biden's pledge to clamp down on tax evasion. also this sunday, at least 12 people are reportedly killed in more than 30 others injured and blasted cobbles, a 2nd to biggest mot. the taliban says it's detained. 3 people allegedly responsible it was an extraordinary disaster. if we didn't have a president, it was so adel.