very unclear even to some there are those that are saying that the u. s. 8 could possibly even have a deal already with the talent and leaving all about equipment behind. i'm not going to make any judgment at this point whatsoever, but it's very interesting to me. is this one off thing or is this something a part of a trend? what are your thoughts? go ahead patrick. i think this is, this is just the beginning. this is the beginning, but in reality the started on this trajectory is or of eventual waning us influence in the middle east and central asia. i think this trajectory began a long time ago because america's greatest advantage throughout history is also its greatest liability. it's shown more than any other world power that it's willing to sacrifice blood and treasure for its national interest or what is perceived to be national interest. but that is also become its biggest liability. and i think the clock started running a really with the bombing of afghanistan, post 911,

the iraq war. the clock began running then, but the clock was really running from the vietnam war. so there's a limited amount of patients that the american people, appetite for war. so pardon me. so, so you have iraq, syria, yemen. these 3 wars are in the balance right now. and so there are things that have happened, watershed points in each of these that i think are now coming to the for biden. is it a week week point? the white house is incredibly weak. america's, at its weakest point politically. they have a foreign policy, teen meta, or young. jake, solomon's 43 years old. you've got, you know, been roads and these are the people, obama, hold overs and insurance that her for are advising the president. so i don't really think they really have a clue. they're really trying to just piece together what's really a broken jigsaw puzzle from the obama administration and the trump administration

was very dysfunctional. tr, i'm wanted to pull out of some of these, but was thwarted by the lindsay ground by the deep state and so forth. so i think that afghan was really the beginning with it right now it's, it's a mixed bag. ok. and that's why we're doing this topic here. what are your thoughts going to because i think we have a parson words here. i mean, having an influence having the gemini, all of these can be defined in a different way. i mean, you can continue to have influenced by selling a lot of arms, which they continue to do. all right. you know, they give me the abraham affords. ok for me it's a, it's a, it's a when you offer the arms producers. ok. i don't, i don't really see the political mix except for some kind of hodge podge anti ran policy, which is really got know where the last 2 administration that we include by 3.

yeah, i can just say that the afghanistan thing was a wow. i don't believe that the united states for the future as any intentional withdrawing from the middle east. i think they're in syria to say, and then they just keep coming up with a new rationale. what's like, the ice is preventing that consolidation of the machine and make sure that russia around increase their influence. and then even when you think about iraq, trump, you know, we will though we get talking about and the forever was and ending interventions. and he never, never said that america should withdraw from iraq. so i think that america has in, this is a huge amount of the day in saudi arabia, the gulf states, and the middle east, and go straight to who they are, 5 points in the world. and so, if there is in the

a rivalry and that you know, some sort of a cold war coming with china, then control all the go will be as important as strategic goal of the united states as it was during the cold war. an interesting case because the americans to say, you know, yes, they gave up on vietnam, cambodia and laos, but you know, they still go indonesia, malaysia, japan, which at that time at least as far as american perceptions are going to the communist. so say, you know, our intervention achieve is goals that we prevented a whole say big of communism in asia. so it wasn't probably just a matter of giving up on the americans. let me to do both to be a 1st to patrick here. i can agree with both of you with the same time for different reasons. i think, i think, you know, what point is it negative returns?

i mean, these are not cost free. ok? number one, number one, they're very, very expensive. you know, 3 trillions plus for gamma standard. so and then i mean, and then there's the blood issue here and we have over the last 3 election cycles. these wars are very, very unpopular. how is it sustainable, the cost and the unpopularity in $1.00 would think maybe maybe one would think it has to come to some kind of tipping point, patrick 1st. sure. in terms of popularity, i think the establishment in the united states is willing to take that on the chin that some of these interventions might be on popular. because the whole point of u. s. foreign policy is to open up markets for certain trends. national trade corporations and so forth. this is allowed the us to have, it's had your money. america's greatest preponderance isn't it isn't military. in fact, although it might seem like that it's the u. s. dollar. and it's,

it's economic preponderance is financial preponderance more than military, military is just a tool to open up, to allow it to dominate globally financially. but i think george pointed out something that's interesting, you know, the middle east will become in a new cold war with china. the middle east will become a sort of contested zone. allah, george or wells geopolitical map in 1984. this endless war with east asia, but the middle east is changed and changed because of us action. so there is now an arc of resistance that very well network to very well equipped and fortified, which stretches from iran all the way to lebanon. that's a direct result of us and its allies, various operations and escapades in places like syria and iraq. and i think there was a tipping point came in january 2020 when iran fired missiles, a dozen missiles at 22 us bases. and the u. s. did not strike back. so i mean that

that was a really, to me, one of the biggest, besides, couldn't entrance into the steering war in october 2015. this moved by iran as a retaliation of the assassination of general cost, some sort of money and iraqi joan and us that was triggered. i think it's slow, a major realignment in terms of west asian geo politics. i think it's irreversible because the u. s. is power is also based on it's the opponents ability to fear them or to respect them. and iran basically called their bluff and look what's happened . nothing has happened to ron. there's been a lot of saber adding. israel is assassinating nuclear scientist, etc. that's going on the fringes, but geopolitically, iraq is also changing their orientation. again, you know, antique more anti u. s. and the clock is to us will have to leave the rock or know how long they'll

be able to keep going. no iraqi kurdistan is now basically under threat as well by some of the same forces. but it's interesting, i think they're the kind of where the circle conversation here. i mean, these words from both of you. i mean, in the we're going from had gemini george gemini, to contest it. i mean, well, that's an interesting strategy right there. ok. because then you lower the cost, what it will cost economic costs. but you may still have the, the financial leverage, as patrick was talking about this, there is a calibration going on. i don't know how it is, and i don't know how conscious it is a grand strategy or is it a country to country things like iraq, which is kind of a outlier when we come to look at these other things here. what do you think george? go ahead. well, i think the financial aspect is a fortune. no one has to bear in mind that what the united states did in iraq and

afghanistan was quite extreme by us standards. i mean, those were full scale invasion. and that is very problematic because that's where you get casualties. as long as you can wage was sort of dishes li, using for as long as you can exert your influence on sales for through, you know, trade by as a dollar and minimize casualties. then the united states can still continue with this policy. actually, it becomes very problematic when you go into vietnam war and you have 500000 troops there. and then you can see it full scale invasion, a and iraq. and so it is, calculation was made by the united states as by the soviet union in the late 198 is the what out of the strategic value of afghanistan,

maybe it isn't. was the normal blood and treasure involved in, in continuum talking by. but that doesn't mean that you give up on all the other ways and i don't think americans is going to give up in the middle east just like that. yeah. well that let me think it's, it's, it's still problematic. let me go to you for we ended up part of the program here, but, you know, we, we have that we can't discount the players on the ground. and there's a lot of chatter, a lot of re reassessing bed bellows talking to each other. recalibrating what iran is in the mix and all that. i think we can talk all about what the us and its allies. but there's a lot of murmurings going on in the ground. and the dentist name is a psychological issue too. they lost ok. they can be defeated. ok. so i, that's one kind of bawling in between. both of you here. go ahead, finish up with that. there's also just

a technical aspect of waging war or having military dominance is that you need to be able to take territory whole territory in the real modern war in terms of what i think is the new u. s. policy, which is to use local enforcers to pull its assets offshore, use local enforcers. so they pulled out of cats or largely and used to saudi arabia as the front person for the yemen war from from march of 20. 15 forward to us is really backing that logistically, satellites air force pilots, in some cases, air refueling, munitions, everything. so it was a great cash cow for the us. it made the money from the war. saudi paid them as well. for the services they were billed. same with the iraqi government was built for air strike, a part of my last comment. i would bet the farm on saudi arabia. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue. our discussion will stay with us. oh,

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that right fell out. it will dest slavery? ah, welcome back to cross stock, were all things are considered? i'm peter le bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah. okay, let's go back to george in budapest. well, youtube is on the warpath again, against against creators, obviously, in the station that we're all on right now, our team has been thrown into the fray. and for the most part, at least at this point in time, it's about cobit misinformation. but when i find terrifying, actually, and sort of lead disappointing, as i see, this is just the cudgel to control control the narrative and to return of gemini in

the media sphere back to the guild media, the new york times, washington po, cnn. all the other rest of them and this is, and it's all layered with medical emergency and that's quite compelling. fear mongering by definition is compelling. that's why they do it. it's not about coven jordan, maybe this in this moment in time. but it's really much more. busy at stake here than cobra misinformation. yeah. so your spawn because the whole sense to ship the black for me moving people off south or long before it started immediately in the aftermath of the 2016 election with the hysteria about the russian boss and the misinformation over that the russians and the radians were providing and he was indeed the mainstream media for the internet giant

to the platform. people who are providing a. 1 wrong information about the clinton. yep. and so this is seized on this issue, but it so much, much bigger theme, which was about the internet which really democratize the availability of information. she does. i don't want to see in the information we want to control information, you know, you have to listen to us and they, well, the pressure on the internet. so this is a little wary off the black will make the pressure and then a bowl from the democrats. if you follow our big, unless you get rid of all of these pro russian boss, we're going to comment you and we're going to parcels of legislation. you are going to like, and, you know, the internet giants are on the list. so it is a matter of,

you know, the politicians and the media are exhausted this and now it's quite problematic as to what to do about this. yeah, i think i'm a rush game because that was kind of in my mind, it was a drive to see how much damage they rock will listen to them who follow, who would remain silent and then who would challenge them. and then we had under, by the laptop, which is, you know, that somebody special project, you know, they, they're really proud of that. yeah. we just got a huge hole through the internet. you know, on this one issue here. and they were very effective. and now it's co business information that they've learned from russia gate they've learned from the under by laptop. they know what to do now, they actually have a plate. that's my opinion. that's how i see it now from an extension from the hunter biden laptop. suppression of that story was after the election, any talk of election fraud, and he thought of it not being

a for election. they came out formally and said they're going to take out, take down any videos or in the other social media because they were sanitizing their platforms. the same way. that's just not that much to any society that claims to be democratic that you can even have discussion or discourse, whether it be partisan or not. but the irony is that is completely partisan what they're doing on that side. but this extends geopolitically. and so back to the taking down of our tea deutsche very dangerous that this platform will take state media and not only state media, a member of the un security council major channel have 600000 subscribers. hundreds of millions of views out competing. some of the german english language channels as well, and that's just down to what people are. they prefer to watch in terms of content. but this is dangerous. they did this depress t, v. a rainy and state media,

they did it to syria, t v. not many people cared because syria t, v. what, what's the point? the point is, if you're at war, if you're a perpetual war, if the west sees itself as being in perpetual warfare all the time, which is in there, if you look at their integrated operating concepts, the things that are being released to white papers coming out of the u. k, for instance, they're viewing this as a spectrum that is constantly moving domestically and internationally. no difference between home in a way pitch. so this is, this is what's being done. so i think this media war, the tit for tat to dangerous, because russia could been you tube within russian territory. then you're into a whole nother range of problems. but i think you have this merger. people have to remember when censorship is done by a company like google or youtube. it's not just, it's an american company, but the censorship is global. they have dominion over the entire planet, information space, and they can even have different policies for different countries,

which facebook does, which google and youtube have done. and it doesn't matter what the regime is, that the policy is totally customized to whatever the political situation and their business relationship is in that country. as far as medical missed information, which is what they used to get the strike that took down the r t channel. they're doing that to millions of views of millions of pieces of content which their ceo admitted. and it's very vague. u. k column, the channel that i'm on as well. we had or channel deleted for medical misinformation. no specific was even 10 year old channels, thousands of videos. they don't tell you what the offending article is. it's left intentionally vague. as you said in, as george said it's, it's a convenient cultural. and the medical misinformation tactic could be used in the geo political sense to take down because these governments are in very close contact with these firms. we know this from the senate hearings. we know this from

recent news report, so to think that they're not in touch with the state department or they're not influenced that's being pushed. and silicon valley from the political side would be very naive. you know, judging, we should never be surprised. in this case, it's the internet, but we go back with newspapers and things like that. we should never be surprised that there, there are people that are ideologically predisposed to certain ideas, other marketplace issues here. but there's, what's new in the mix for me is that it's the people that claim to be journalist. they're the ones that are spearheading this. they are the ones that are most keen on censorship, banding shadow banding and all of this. because, you know, you can have people and you to google that have certain ideas. but i still wonder if they think, well, you know what just makes them money. ok. and then you have the, there's the pressure out there to conform. because, you know, being the people that are sending this information, i mean, in the scheme of things,

it's minuscule compared to what these platforms hold here. and that's why we believe it is political here. but then if anything is it's journalist, so news outlets. the ones that are sharing the loudest, but the worst possible thing ever happened to the internet in that is censorship. go ahead. yes. and there's a real irony there because a, c, n, n a new york times that do this drumbeat. i'm particular, patrick said it's directed very much the rest of the rochester, you know, we have a roster. these is the malevolent factor because they engineer from selection battery, they provide this information about rick lynch again. now, roches, the back is providing bad information on back scenes and the, you know, misinforming, the public. so there's the geopolitical aspect. but what's really important is that these journals, these outlets like cnn, which i'll talk about this information and you know, conservancy here is pedal by russia. i mean there are few outlets in the world that

are responsible for more bad news. news with c n, n. and then, you know, i mean the home to buy and i mean, you know, they, you know, they pedal the nonsense. i'm to buy a laptop was, i was a russian intelligence operation. they federal nonsense about the whole world of the russian gate conspiracy. a collusion they had all the nonsense about the russian bounties on us soldiers in afghanistan today. so, you know, we don't even have to go back to the iraq weapons of mass destruction. so they are responsible for long was this information than anything to me to talk to you actually get something wrong. i usually because they report some mainstream media but wrong, but they never got so many big things wrong as these are basically media outlets that are calling for censorship. not by the standard me the,

the 10s of thousands of hours. it's c, n, n a m s. m b, c, they should be deleted by the standard that they are claiming about dis, information and, and what, what would add insult to injury is that when you go to you, no matter what you watch, they propose and you watch mainstream media. so, you know, they don't, you know, they don't have a dog in this, in the spite of course, they do, they're losing their market share. and market share is money. it's a, this is a business proposition for them. if they want it for money, they're willing to see freedom of speech completely oblivious. they could there last there, bottom line in their shareholders. it's very pernicious. go ahead and below every video that you tube flagging that, they haven't taken down. there's a little coven. 19 information bar or, or it'll be about russian state media. they put a russian state media under every r t video, but the, the cov, it link goes to wikipedia and wikipedia is completely games in terms of information

. this has been proven beyond a doubt. so this is the, or wells ministry of truth in action, but geopolitical, you have to realize that now, you know, the, all the fake news uproar during trump and after trump and this misinformation dis, information. the military are using these terms in nato countries, in their defense reviews, in their defense documents. and they're viewing this as a threat to the consensus and they're calling this space democratically protected. so this is become a national security and so the g 7 launch something that lot of people missed, which is the rapid response mechanism in 2018 when theresa may was prime minister. and what it meant that all g 7 countries had to have streamline messaging on anything national security related. and this is almost like a treaty. ok. so if you think about, if you criticize the german government policy or the u. k. government policy, whether it's me, you or some alternative media outlets that goes into

a national security column. and it's to be dealt with or seen as a threat. and they're going to legislate against this in the u. k with the online arms legislation and to, to elevate trusted sources and to basically delete or remove what they call misinformation or dangerous to democracy in anything that damages confidence in government, or the consensus and government is the worst offender for destroying confidence in itself. as is the mainstream media in confidence in media, it's their fake news as you pointed, that is caused the public to just abandon them in drugs. so this is just a strange epoch we find ourselves. well it's, it's a tragic one because it's a sunset on civilization and folks that are going to rely upon weak media. you know, just out the lights, it's over. ok, that's all the time i want to take my guess. we to president limits want to thank you for watching us here. are you see an ex family member?

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with ah, this matter, the 4th of october for moscow, a bond, michelle, exposed to reveal shady of short dealings of the world's rich and powerful, including former british premier, tony blair and sitting check prime minister andre babich with the united states named as a leading tax haven bye say the situation is stabilizing. no one's going to pretend he is completely back to normal. i wish it was, but he is, is getting it that way a while officials in the you carry them down, play the ongoing fuel crisis. they're, they've now deployed military forces today across the country and a bid to ease the emergency. as many petrol stations remain dry, especially in the southeast, with cues of angry drivers waiting for supplies.