and johnson, or is it incompetence? well, ok, hello sir. nice to be on your program. i, i think care there are structural problems in the whole of the u. k. economy, which neither party is willing to address. and what we are witnessing in terms of chill chill to do is food you to do is homelessness, cuts in universal credit. that is basically how neoliberalism is playing out. it is really about enriching the rich are not really doing much for the masses. and i mean, no, i know you, they're written a bit about this. i mean say just the health care system here, the envy of the world. it used to be the national health service. here it is. it by stealth. they are privatizing it. and is it working this idea that the you can cream people off into the private sector? now as the n h s seems to be failing for some in this country? well, i think it is privatization mostella and also deliberately, you know,

when the conservative government came to office in 2010, the waiting list was about 2.42.5000000 in england. it is already about high point, 6000000 and the whole house is, has going to it possibly 13000000 by the end of next year. and the main reason for that is lack of investment. britain is unable even to trade sufficient doctors and we've been doing what we have done for a long, long time. that is really poach people from other countries, deprived them of their skill labor. and the trick is not working at the moment because a lot of the migrants have left. so basically the government should have had the facilities to train healthcare workers, but it does not have that in place. and it's not something you can come to europe overnight because the priority has been how the government to provide tax cuts to corporations and the rich. and now older people are really just paying the price.

here. what did you think of it when boys johnson? apparently in new york for the un general assembly met up with jeff bezos and said it's up to companies like amazon to pay their tax. how. how are i suppose that he might as well say there be a bucket at the rear station and they're going to pay your taxes please. before you leave, the country, companies are not going to voluntarily pay taxes. we need to have a well resource tax authority, and certainly hardly any actions been taken against the tax avoidance industry. our been an avid or what the big for accounting firms, the api center of the global tax avoidance industry. do i, can you imagine you and i getting a court judgement and call, it says you're done something unlawful. somebody will descend upon you there will find you there will shut down businesses or that, that just does not happen to the ex avoidance industry at all. no,

really surprising up to a point because there are many members of parliament who are on the payroll of these firms. many former senior politicians have work or are currently working for these big accounting firms or so. so there is a real crisis about what you know, what is happening in our society. on paper we are told we have a government off the people for the people, but it does not really appear to be for the people. it is only for the rich and john corporations, when you mentioned the audit companies, when the actual, the violations that have been discovered in fantasy. i know you written about it. one company grant thornton was fine, 2340000 pounds on, on what 471000000, the income over auditing, the big auditors are also part of the systemic problem. well,

the other times really they've been delivering that on this for nearly a century. nothing up of those are just and the grange, you know, there is any changes the collapse or lehman brothers. and when we had to close our libraries for austerity to bail out all these banks, no change in order things. and so the bailouts are as new 100 mental change. they have been tinkering around at the edges that has not really done anything. the government could discipline them by saying, look, we won't give you any tax pay us sponsored contracts. these homes have no experience in dealing with the pen that makes yeah, they got coded contracts running into hundreds of millions of pounds. and that is, in a sense, the real fundamental problem in this country that there are certain groups on the elite who have benefited from government policies. others have not wages. and i look at the workers wages, basically been stagnant for the next decade. meanwhile,

the energy bills, the food bills, transport bills are rising at old repeat law struggling. as you said earlier, 14 and a half 1000000 people live below the poverty line. and there is no discernible government plan to, to deal with that. and when, when, when you listen to the labor policies are announced of the conference this week, there isn't much happening there either. we heard how the labor leader was opposed to 50 pound per hour minimum wage. let's put that in perspective. even if somebody gets 15 pounds, there will be paying 20 percent of that in the basic income tax on top of the other is 12 percent in national insurance on top of that. and other 1.25 percentage point recently announced increase in the health and carroll every while . that doesn't really leave anybody very much to deal with the massive increase in

food prices and energy prices or anything else. and what boris johnson has avoided an i q star. my has a road, it is a key word. the key word is really distribution. there is no real distribution going on. and that is a staggering in this country that even people in full time jobs can come look after their families that don't have enough resources to pay for their housing, food and anything else. and that is really unacceptable. we need massive redistribution. while no political party is willing to take that all, is that because, and they'll certainly be stands for from private equity companies at the conservative body conference. this week, let alone her closer ties between kids as labor party in the city of london. is that because of revolving door between the very financial, this is a institutions and of the democratically elected parties. well,

they revolving doors is one aspect. the other is a lot of the media itself is controlled, bother very interests who want these kind of privileges. we really need a fundamental constitutional reform, for example, we need to need to deal with whether the members of parliament should really be consultants to corporate interest. many are still on the books of corporations, of the basically do their master's bidding in parliament. and that is unacceptable . for them, every one of them when i, they do that, that's just a helpful donations and they kind of, you know, they can pursue 46 percent rise in your sales by the way the richer are doing that bad. the one of the more astonishing figures that you being quoting, it seems in opposition to what we hear from the media. you speak of that the financial services industry somehow helps the exchequer, the u. k. economy. you quote some with a 4.5 trillion pounds. in

a negative contribution to the u. k. economy between 19972015. so all this tall buildings in the city of london is that a negative impact on the economy during that period? well that, that is right. and that is, i'm quoting research conducted at the university of sheffield by distinguished academics. so she looked at, we bailed out the banks. for example. the city of london is at the forefront of a tax avoidance industry, money laundering industry. many of our graduates end up working in the finance industry instead of say, going to other industries which are far more productive. i love the city of london is basically simply gambling by taking all these things into account. the academic colleagues, cheko university came up with that estimate that estimate has not been denied by

the government. indeed, i have cited that in debates of the house of lords, challenger ministers denied you look at the other countries. laugh finance industry too, but it is not so dominant. i'm not against the finance industry, but what i am again says and restrained speculation and gambling was we have, we have a financial, a conduct authority here is a regulator. and in the house of lords you, you're demanding an investigation into the regulator itself. i mean, is london the most corrupt place on earth? well, our regulators are pretty ineffective. i mean, i cited the example of her a chest me see in my in the house of lords, hsbc was find at 1900000000 dollars in the us for money laundering. admitted that in writing that had been engaged in, quote,

criminal conduct. and it was not investigated in the u. k. that for whatever reason, no government statement was made about this. but curiously, in the u. s. and other committee senatorial committee got interested in that howard come, that a bank is find such a massive amount. this was in 2012 and but not really prosecuted. and they then mounted an investigation and published a report that report contained a letter from the u. u. k. chancellor. together with the e mail and letters from the u. k. regulatory authorities and the bank of england urging the americans to go easy on hsbc. it was too big, too high or too big to regulate. and that is not the only example that we use is it is you can most corrupt. we have a bank of credit and commerce international which was shut down in 1991. it was the

world's biggest banking fraud in the 20th century. to this day they had been their investigation. and i, a 45 and a half year legal battle with the u. k. government to get hold of one secret document. this is under the freedom of information. and that document showed that the bank was looted. my operatives of al qaeda, saudi intelligence. there was smugglers, them a gun runners, you name it. but the u. k. government has hushed up the whole thing. and we have to remember that al qaeda and taliban themselves are funded and, and by the west of the authorities that were trained by western r. there has been absolutely no accountability and this particular bank, banks collapse was never really investigated. so one has to conclude that the government is nurturing these kind of darker practices, which is not helpful to the people. well, lord pepsi,

thank you. obviously you have parliamentary privilege. we don't have it here. all those banks deny any are wrong doing in the main and obviously, so does the financial calling you to regulate it? you're most welcome to look at marco elementary speeches and publicly available evidence, which is cited in those speeches to decide, oh, what do you want to accept? ramsey got thank you. after the break counter extremism of counter democracy, does the government to war on terror prevents the very freedoms? it aims to protect holism all coming up and bought 2 of going underground. ah ah

ah one would think the humiliating withdrawal from afghanistan would be the start of a washington line down of the forever wars. is this really the case also? you tubes more on creators? and it's not only about so called coven misinformation. ah it though both of them, i think of grace you, douglas go he did. who bought a border with i helped him. i will come with the than you quite. but i know through

politicians to athletes and movies. does the musicals, does it seems that every big name in the world has been here last year. copa music, no corpus corrosive flu, summer relation budget. when you get the call for anything, give me a glass. would you thought that she said basil makes dreams come true. that every one who fall in love with people like mm. welcome back. as nato nations grow alarmed by the influx of refugees from defeat in afghanistan, will we see another optic in mass surveillance to care storm as labor parties already talking about utilizing video doorbell systems and the johnson government

has been slammed for interfering in schools. joining me now from here in london is dr. rob for walker, who has experienced the u. case, prevent counter terrorism program 1st hand, and is now written the emergence of extremism exposing the violet discourse of language of radicalization. congratulations on the book. welcome my rob to the show . you written about the emergence of extremism in inverted commas. in this book, you were a school teacher. so you had 1st hand experience of this prevent strategy supported by their labor and tory parties over the years. and how did it help inspire you perhaps to write this book? i'm well, yeah. all right, thanks very much. i was, i was teaching is the same teaching in a lot. so the store i was working in became a focus for the present strategy in around 2015. and it seems immediately it seems the problematic that we were being briefed on how to identify

young children as potential future terrorists. i mean, it seems, seem madness to me or what i mean. so i was teaching the secondary school, but we got documents and examples of, you know, children and children even by prevents, you know, 6 or 56 i'm year olds. and it's just as madness is based based on the idea that some people's political views. my act as a, as a, as a useful for predict detracts and violence. which is called the logic of how democracy works. okey the wrong way around this isn't logic in a democracy. it's enabling express views that might be outside of the norm. that means they don't have to resort to. so i've been writing about a all that by preventing people from speaking out.

eric used on my screen, they're actually making political lines more and not less likely. so the whole strategy is totally counterproductive. so i'm certainly, you know, the questions. i have the most recent research and i've been looking at hence for a few years now. here you say in the book, it not only undermines our democracy by labeling some people extremists, but it also silencing them and into doing, denying them the opportunity to participate in debate. i mean, we were hearing that the taliban revolt, the checking has, are a boy's mobile phones a photo galleries, e mails that, that kind of idea. it's comparable that the, i mean, this is it's, it's a totally different, you know, and it's not really surprising. prevent like strategies encountered streamers, which was invented by the u. k. in the u. s. alliance has been laptop i regimes around glow. i mean, you can see that the office in recent years for b, a, b,

i would encounter extremism training with the indian governments. i mean the treatments or medicines and india may. i also know that the streaming along the or you of course, is where i'm given cancer streams in training. so the chinese states in advance of the person, it happens a weakness, and we received this in a wholesale refreshing muslims going on around below. i was mentally a situation that has, i mean, i, the war and sarah mentioned on hopefully find you this person a waste of time, dangerous waste time costing millions of lives needlessly and is made to wells a less safe place. and this around strategies, ultimately the domestic front of the war on terror and a chinese indian government was he denied any wrong doing as well as that people

can watch our interview about the week is now, you know, in 2019 the home of his home, of his work was that prevent is a vital part of all kinds of terrorism work, which safeguards vulnerable people from being drawn into terrorism since 2012. that's, that's the british government safeguarding, you know, having been a teacher is safe going use is absolutely primary for teacher and what a new layer of surveillance into that relationship rent is one of the only areas that i huddle or repeatedly encounter professionals who claims for children and be interviewed by the police without that parents stay informed about it. so there is, this is, there is nothing to do with it. so it's about safeguarding the state from detention and tara, and as i say, the idea is a useful way of track. sarah is, is ridiculous, and i personally have had situations where before prevents existed. you would

have, on occasion young was there was a man who was that all of us boys had told me is that a teacher about aspirations, for example, travel circumstances that also and in every situation they told me, i discovered that the people who were, i was the war and sarah, me as well, they learned that they can write to engage in democracy now become a democrat. i mean, i situations, none of those children ever travel matter, evidently just is items agents as a teacher, as of 8 states to help them become democratic citizens with prevention, base, base, children. and i had chosen told me that they wouldn't have a conversation teacher because they know the teacher would be obliged lease for prevents and it's no coincidence not to rent was introduced in the so the next

those goals are i with the 3 goals, including you made a child again that was in my experience, i was creeper and may well have conversations about their expressions with teachers that are on stations about frustration. policy which children are now not going to say, i'm quite right on the stations because it's like either the results or, and at least i'm, you know, my dual, actually a vague him who human rights advocate say it's been denied her citizenship. i think the interesting thing about your book of taking it away from islam ism for a 2nd. then we talk a lot in this program a to learn this kind of radicalization to britain itself because historically promoted islam ism, obviously in afghanistan, under the beginning. you talk about how we're the 1st time the phrase extremism was used in parliament on the 2nd of august. $919.00 and it was about miners and

railway men. this is about class as well as it is anything to do about the war. in terra, you seem to be suggesting, well, for, there's been a historically, this been a very, there was a big shift after the 77 bombings in 2005 on the west. tony blair started using extremism to describe the almost which represents a dramatic shift in the british left. because before last all the instances which are very rare and you can read all of them in one city. but all of the instances stream isn't being used in parliament, are used by the left to describe the hard left. so you will get labor and he's will say say 2, a tory empty. so say you need to watch out a press, the policies that you're asking. because in response to that, it will be arise and extremism. that's about all that. and communist is 20 century, which will result in more, less for him. and he's,

and this is an interesting thing for me because what it shows is that the left wing politicians, labor politicians, did not want power. they wanted political change. and so the interesting thing now and again under kissed on glerison is this idea versus interest labor party actually moves it totally away from its roots. the light possibly was set up as an opposition party to demand change. and so if i, you know why the last talk about the struggle because they are, it's an ongoing struggle against against power. and again, so clarity. and when you get so much, i mean last, my kids are aspiring to be in power in a 2 party system like we have a new k that's totally ruins what i called alimentary calculus. we no longer have any balance and powers within poland because you got to groups of people, the tories and labor both by and for power, which means you actually get no one representing people's interests. and what they

do represent you mentioned the ticket sharma is associated with the trilateral commission. something about that, the great us a story and drama just and right and go values to talk about in his later years. what is the trilateral commission that the kids stammers associated with it? so it's quite extraordinary, but really, really would be a member of the trilateral commission was formed after the 2nd world war and its try lateral because it is representative of business leaders from japan. your north america and they, infamously, in the early seventies roy, say a book called the crisis of democracy. and the crisis of democracy they describe is that students are starting to pro, set to protest and demand change. feminist women are demands in critical representation around the world. workers are demanding representation within,

within parliament. and they see this is a crisis. the crisis for them is that there is too much democracy, that people are getting involved in political decisions. and they actually in the crisis they, they rice out describe projects of how they're going to pose discipline and sacrifice on to on to post war deletions. and so if you look at the current membership of the machine, based on it's full of elitist business leaders in from the rich people and reference to the business which extraordinarily well, i don't think it is nice for mary care. storm of leisure lane party is a member of i don't think it's to a concert or to suggest that kissed armor who, who funded his campaign to come later. policy with a number of small donations that were small and below the threshold to declare who

in here exactly made raise the nations. i don't think it is too much of a stretch imagination to suggest an organization like the trilateral mission of multiple different business leaders. would be a good place to start organizing such a campaign, certain facts. i didn't think it on that is representative of labeled an asshole. he's been put in place by this organization, which is actively designed to undermine the labor movement that they've written in the, in that treat. well, he's been put in there by a lot of members as well. we're right here. stronger on the never received. you want to come on even i met him on a b, b c program, but he does seem to want to come on. do you really do put into context in this book, how anti capitalist literature has been there, even surveilled by the state in recent years? obviously the climate activists complaining that they are being under this surveillance state. the obvious, vital question is how can we and may debate and converse

in the public arena, knowing that the kinds of surveillance you outlined in the book is a full spectrum across the range. and, you know, people's children, as you say, a coming up against it. yeah, i mean it's, it's incredibly worrying really. we are, i mean, i'm sure you, you, on your, i'm sort of the way that the lease and i'm trying prevents people every math, less views and, and you have a level of surveillance teachers and docs is informing on people's movements. and we'll say now, you know, there is also, you know, that they like to surveillance with 60 long people that you know, carrying michael or it's very difficult to imagine how people can exist politically within such

a climate. but i think i think what we have to do is we have to, as i'm told you now, we have to keep talking about it. because alternately, the power only exists in the extent to which it's on the road for a walker. thank you. and that's it. for the show will be back on wednesday when poll leading british prime minister boss johnson takes to the stage because everybody conference has millions receive welfare, got submitted and energy crisis that could further squeeze the poor families in one of the richest countries in the world until then keep in touch with social media and let us know if you're worried about your children being targeted by via my 5 prevent. ah, ah ah ah

oh, now it shows the wrong one. i just don't know if you have to say proud disdain to come to the african and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground.

ah, just a day to lake reveals the offshore dealings of the world's rich and powerful, including former british premier, tony blair and current check prime minister andre babich with the united states named as a leading tax haven. and then marks energy agency gives the green light to part of russia's north string to gas pipeline. as europe grapples with soaring fuel prices, i say the situation is stabilizing, and no one's going to pretend his completely back to normal. i wish it was, but his is is it's getting it that way or british officials down play their own ongoing fuel crisis. they've now deployed military forces across the country as petrol stations remained.