ah killing, welcome joy, a that has never been just business and no one's responsibility. other power is big and small perceived that on the agenda there with little regard for the countries constance or aspirations. and the taliban has abandoned familiar status. the question a since trajectory and what it for times for the region as a whole is more graphing than ever to discuss with them now joined by a brother of the late resistance. later, i'm not shocked my suit and format dennison's ambassador to the united kingdom. and that's what i miss it. it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for finding the time. you're welcome. thank you very much. thank you. now, a few days after the taliban claim to full control of afghanistan,

you called for international support. and i assume and agreeing to this interview, you are also seeking to mobilize the international public opinion. and i know that you are clearly mistrustful of the taliban. you have reasons for, you know, holding that opinion, but i wonder why i, you know, equally skeptical or cynical of the so called international community because foreign powers have used your country so cruelly, so cynically, for so many years. why ask for their support now. thanks very much. well, let me 1st, i agree that i totally agree, that unfortunately our country has been used and misused and no matter how much we try to make something at the end of the day, then something to cancel because of your own interest. you can keep, once again we go back for 10 years for 20, for 10 years. 20. that has been

a very unfortunate scenario for us. what of course, when we raised our voice, we're not on the kind of skeptical about the taliban. but of course about the packers about dish players were using avalon, a son as a scapegoat, as a game, as a playground, as a mag ground floor, rivalry for all of that. this is the afghans, the so our people what the victim will really paying the price. we're paying very heavy price. let's say recently we have paid after 20 years that out people built some life. it was all just basic and 40 once again, the plate again, the whole thing like that was again, we go back 20 years back now we have to start to get from the scratch from digital . what we all come to point in our lives, in our countries when we have to choose whether our amateur for something is bigger than our law for something. and i, you clearly have many grievances when the taliban. i wonder though if it's at this

point that bigger than your concern for the country canyon, this edge a scenario under which you are very different visions for the country could be somehow reconcile. we have been trying very hard and not to get that for the past. one half years, there have been some notice to close piece process that up on the sun and international community really committed themselves to back that peace process. and that is why the people of afghanistan deal confident that it didn't update this piece process, which is backed by the international community was somehow succeed. what's happening then? some class comes and the whole piece process be scrapped under that sort of politic sort of piece. the thought of an attack, somebody has come, and they just want to enhance to strengthen their own interest on a song. so it means a how can we trust me, who, i mean, the only people you can trust the people of afghanistan and,

and the very least they are the common place to represent some of them. why do you believe that the international community, whatever a promise to you can actually deliver that? because i cannot remember a single example when it comes to the kids there of your country when they have actually growing that bad words work and result into something tangible. well, as used to put it right, the dead man do people, we have to really process the people of our fonts and we did, of course, we tried our best, but again, as the proxy. what starts then of course we have to really look at bliss. people who are being used, if, even if they are asked guns against, asked guns against people for us. and i guess our country will have to resolve voice. i mean, we tried very hard. let me say that, not now. even when my brother was alive, he tried his best to reach a sort of reconciliation with a ton of money. he himself went along to the stronghold of the tall about mid with

the leadership of the trial. upon alone, only with one got to really see if there is a compromise who did as a kind of a space to do it. but of which it did not happen. why? because they're gonna bond or not the master of your own destiny. so therefore, some other people can dictate to tolerant policy or you're being use of the proxy force. and of course, the end result of the same a boy who is that exactly what's been using the taliban? because there are many conspiracy theories around the indian national politics. who do you think stands behind the taliban at this moment? well, i mean, apart from the conspiracy choose, we all know that i focused on have been a very strong support that of the tal upon that is no doubt about this one. we all know that group isn't of the united states. a staunch supporter to turn on he was the one who really reach that with the tunnel bunch. we just not the content of the

demon, but he was the one who really kind of brought about the situation today that we are seeing it. i find a sub and of course, like them to many others were playing the same sort of game. so i say, ambassador message, i'm sorry for interactive, but i saying that despite the fact that americans have essentially got a laugh, dan, now using the taliban as that proxy on the ground. is that what you're trying to suggest here? well, if the american have been represented by dr. phil, is that a surely that he has a special representative for them in again to bring peace and i've thought of son is responsible for the situation wasn't today, especially that now there are talks about that that was not this went up to turn on . we change the situation altogether, but it was arrangement by doctor result and some others would deliver the power from the government to the tyler buck got just now they're ready. 6 scenario

because every general, every politician, well i've been involved in the center of a lot of fun making that that was not because of his went off the top one that was worked out beforehand, especially by goose water plant. now he said recently there thousands of the taliban fridays dorm, and in the past year bally why i'm a dormant and what needs to happen for them to be a way can well, let's say that at the beginning when the time on came, of course before the call on came the ghost of the town came. there was so much publicity that the telephone was so strong. so that was monday. the the 2nd because of some sort of arrangement as i mission. my doctor is up by doctor. i need my doctor, my son. i just told him to govern him. out of put the tunnel on came to the seed but didnt people were a shock that it was such a big powerful force so called the talent. so there are 2 completely shocked. now was the problem i've taken over. people have realized the look. i love the children,

look, it was not the same as soon as they used to be. it's not now the people are coming up and coming back this a lot, we have to resist for our country. we have to live it. that is why we are saying that today is not only talent, tens of thousands of volunteers. fighters were fighting for deliberation. honestly, that's what it is today right now in the ground. and that's it. and i said if you believe they are proficient, you are the taliban ideas about afghanistan, a so strong. why do you need to call for international support? isn't that actually, you know, the greatest thing that could happen to any society your own, you know, social force is being mobilized and galvanized you direct on future that you should have no reason to complain about it. well, let's put a dispute. as i mentioned that the study grows now it's almost one and a half months that the top one have taken over. now we can see the sports are coming up. now one will then to do something. but at the same time, we really have to kind of cleared the mind of the people,

the public opinion that the situation we have to really tell them that our country is in that situation. there are some ports are coming from outside. it's kind of a proxy what spend our country have been use for the interest of the people. we will have the core for international support. if you believe that this isn't a national terrorism, or the top one is part of the international carol networks. of course we need a support at least at the level of the political or moral support to see the clock. you're right and you're wrong. so we really kind of want whose support of the toner on to back down. you see, every day we can hear that you're calling for the recognition of the polymer. we need to have to kind of tell the world that this is your moral support to back down from just to completion. because if you recognize that one, it will be a big mistake like you have done right now. while there is clearly no birth international support. i think there has clearly been as lori of backdoor

diplomatic activity. i know for a fact that the russian officials have doubled down the triples down there. you're asian diplomacy, as i'm sure, have many other countries. and i think the regional consensus for now is to make sure that what happens in afghanistan state in afghanistan. what do you think about this approach? and we all know that there, because each country have got their own interest. we know that i find a supplement, not only an african problem, it's kind of a deep political problem of different countries and volt. and i found some, we know that one. but at the same time, as you said at the beginning, right, we ask on people, we have the right to, we kind of make sure that we should survive the whole kind of these games. we have to make that enough kelvin column for the dilution cumulative stuff. want to start, this is not a playground for if the forced play get on good. like that we have to make sure to tell our people to give them the confidence that we are here for you. and we really

kind of, i mean, we have to make sure many, many things. so therefore, what you're saying is that since it's a very deep down to political changes enough on the sun. and it will kick them much longer time to really determine what can happen. so therefore, since this our country, we have to determine that our people can sort of ice a message. this is exactly what i think your neighbors are doing. of course, to find out what is rather than madeline in your affairs as they have done for many, many years. they have learned the hard way that plague proxy games in afghanistan never brings anything valuable. it always ends up costing more. so it is you not them for calling for international support? yes, i mean, when we say that the initial support that use us let's say, can we call on our neighbor to really kind of see if i've got a son to help us on a son. as i find his son,

one to go on some sort of products and what should be called for the extra regional power to set up, well decide on it. so we have so much of this. your time is the time that everybody have to come as a sub sub consciences around afghanistan. we have got the right to really call because as i mentioned before, this is not the problem of the afghans themselves inside of one isn't only just a much deeper problem of different countries being late and i want to some so that's why you're calling on sellers to support, but it does not mean that you should not be to work on a fair you're supposed to have been doing it. i mean, look, as i mentioned before, 20 years ago when my brother was a life we was did want to see how exactly we can commit it. but to talk about our position and 20 years back to still, we're kind of kind of looking forward to see how exactly we can make sure that this is afghanistan. what i've got to so we can reach that some of our agents will be easier to shoot without anyone sort of standing nearby and telling you how it

should be done best. because i mean, i think i'm in, in my years of power international politics, international support never comes without change the task, if there is some power that is supposed to be helping you always want something in return. now you have to tell them clearly not been most friendly looking government, but shouldn't be given and try simply because it seems to be the grassroots force as ugly as it may be. they come from afghanistan and perhaps they have all, does her own interest in seeing the country invalid as i mentioned before, but at past one hm. years there was a piece procedure going, god, what happened that didn't off today that was rejected on a for about a month and a half and it usually takes longer, even in the most established democracies to form a functioning government. should you give them, you know, a here

a couple of years before we actually come up with a judgment, whether you know they are worth, they're sold a not one at this moment. the bond isn't there in the field. i mean, you have a lot of fun. there wasn't there feel they have to take the initiative. what exactly they can do so far, what we can see, look at the government, look at the cabinet, look at their policies, look at that. they're unable to deliver for you, people who have on a look at the poverty look at, look at it, we have not had it well, and that's it. a message. let's look at all those things after a very short break and we'll be back to the discussion in just a moment. thank you. ah .

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as a report ah, no hm. actually the part with my brother, all the late resistance later my check my so and format dennison's and back to the united kingdom. and before the break we started talking about the taliban. and clearly you see that being said, for governance that you actually said that there is not much difference between b one and day taliban and what they used to be in the 99. but there's clearly a difference between fighting in the mountain ranges. ronnie, social affairs, even in the most repressive form. so even if there is no change in ideology, there is clearly a change in priorities in means of achieving them as well as

in the immediate considerations. doesn't that count for something? well now that i'm missing that, a lot of things have changed, but unfortunately, what is the changes like years ago to taliban were different today or more violent than ever before. 20 years ago did really kind of stick with center of principal. so talk to they did not have non classical at all except that they are using this principle can, has their own interest. 20 years ago, there was some sort of kind of dialogue with the others to see what they can do today. they are so kind of restrict limited to each other, kicking one cabinet from one big, misty called question. and from inside by studio, just completely concentrated on what's called the so called taliban, he's not no polishing for anybody for any. and it's not to tell you that. and i

want to say there are more than 34 of them are larger, that needs to be one of them, especially, especially in this part about just a fraction of question. so what are the rights of the other 20 years ago? i mean, 20 years ago, there was me probably one other, an international terrorist network club plaza. but today i've got connection with different was for international terrace network. i'm going to work on the group. so just for unfortunately the change has changed from back to worse, not better, not better. now, i know that you have called for the creation of the taliban resistance government and it's been reported in the media that some members of your extended family, even. so to get some support for this idea from foreign powers, but so far, none of them can be russia, france, none of them have endorsed. why do you think when power is, are so has it and about for me, some sort of a shadow or resistance government?

yes, but it, this week, i mean, different international kid. we need to do a lot everything and have fun. so right now, as i mentioned at the beginning, that the situation, the problem of our plan isn't, it's not a merely ask one problem. it's a deep down political problem, which in most many countries, many players. so therefore, you can see that the different countries, they are making maneuver, you know, but they're not making kind of decision because this state is so big, so high. so, you know, but look at the tone of a situation almost when you have gone one half months gone, but it's still, there's no country ready to recognize a title on to the government and you're not even ready to engage with the tolerable . so the situation is kind of a general situation all of our fund. so let's talk about this issue of recognition because i find it very interesting and very characteristic of modern day geo fontes . because on the one hand, nobody is in rush to recognize the government or even sort of legitimize it by

removing its terrorist label. but on the other hand, everybody is in toss of with the taliban. and it's, it's to be a rather convenient situation for the so called international community which lies to raise the order. they leave service international law, but also engaging, reformulate a terrorist group behind closed doors. and would you actually see the situation continue with them pretending? and, you know, the calvin is still a terrorist organization, or would you rather have them recognize it so that they can assume some responsibility for who they're dealing with? well, let's put a dispute that what exactly the installation committee requested ask for tyler bond . is that too fast and was to cut tie when to terrace network? you're not able to cut tie with intellectual, tara smith work because you're parked off the top on the can not catch me. going to do it to people who really initially had to tie them on to take over. so therefore,

they cannot enter mission committee, cannot accept the situation the 2nd natalia but have not been able to really introduce a government which could represent up on the turret because their policy are so rigid, it's kind of comp complete because concrete, what the university values johnson about the woman about the men, about the request, about education and everything. and another thing which is really kind of concerned, it's on the committee since the game is everywhere else, kind of everybody kind of waiting to see what happens to the next game. so then they can decide and set up on some. so it means that a lot of so have been played for a much bigger game. so elsewhere rather than i thought isn't it. so that is why you cannot make up their minds so quickly. i apologize for my next question because it may come across as part of the sunday, but i'm asking simply because i don't know the situation on the ground. well enough after so many here is of violence. do you think the society still has this capacity

of managing its affairs civilly and allison took me without resorting to violence, but also without pretending to be what it is not because for many years, i think especially under the american occupation day i'm going institutions by which i'm going to be what they were not. well, i'm, let's put it that since. when i make a left, there was expectation that when they leave they can leave responsibility. then the people are wasn't, can bill. what is going to achieve for the past 20 years. but unfortunately, they left responsibility the situation company, they came into the situation and now it's kind of blues kind of possibility to which one to destroy. now, i'll check that it can talk less again. then they have to start from digital, of course, provided that if the total on allow that situation really prevail, it's becoming kind of difficult. i mean, there was some after 20. are there

a sense of confidence that the afghans kind of be similar? we can make it are so we can change our so we can build a new about that. have everybody look. but now when it says the title one kid, that's sort of cod fitness, who did died right now? it has died. there is no card who spoken sort of this. not only as a politician, i see or a political. what is it? this is the common after people who set up on their hopes do have dreams. that has died because of the situation. and that's a message i strongly sympathize and emphasize empathize your feelings because as a, you know, as a child of the former soviet union, i've been so that i've seen a situation when i one day you wake up and you can choose no more. and all that worth yesterday is no longer working, but i also leave, i know that normally experience that that would be rebuilt in the country with its people together. and it counts only on it sounds not on some of it,

somebody else's, but on its own resources. that's why i'm asking you whether you think there is still a capacity for the afghans despite the asset of the taliban. and that the real danger that it represents to many members of your society. i don't want to do you think the energy of wanting to turn the taliban into a beautiful country, then it is a very rich country. by the way, both in terms of mineral resources and, and geographic location, do you think there is enough anon to laugh in your country? it's you, you know, for august and to truly play, take its deserve grace in the world. well, let's put it dissipated. i mean, to come to that question if you really want to have something and i find a son at the school up on a prosperity finest one and a person which can depend on itself. we don't, we have but 2 alternative one is desk and i'm sort of have to reach out of consensus amongst them. so guess is the 1st letter you sent up on the 2nd letter of

peace and i found a sum which is completed related to the facility is due in regional countries. have to reach center of conferences about afghanistan. so this is the one player, this is the 2nd player. what to put a can come together induct with the thought of some douglas talk. but the problem is that we don't have to incite punch. this is neither the outside punches. but when we try to really kind of reach a sort of insight consensus, of course, there are, it is the problem. there are other ideological problem, derek terror, things but so far as we try to reach then of course some player comes and they have got their own agenda and i've got a son and some corrupt politician. they go along with them in a been to us again. our country come to the same sort of cycle at the same time when we, what we decide to get other regional country to come to soccer consensus. once again, every other regional countries have got different gender,

different views. so therefore we have not been able conduct the horse and nobody in our funds has been affected by each other. it's not only africans like them. we have got one with 6 neighbors, all their neighbors still kind of affecting the situation of what i said. i only have one more question and i want it to be a hypothetical question. there is a gentleman saying that better and ending with band than a pain without ending and if they're totally honest, i think we have to admit that the last couple of years i've been merican presence in afghanistan is essentially an essentially maintained the state of limbo with some semblance of security, but with very, very little social progress. it was just expanding the necessary let's say the americans had paid for another day. do you think that would have improved the situation in your country? no. what i'm trying to say is this. after america wanted to go, of course,

welcome to go. what we wanted. we ask that when you go after 20 years, you better go to responsibility. not to give it to hand it over to the tyler on not to kind of set up. ok. that's it may not be because there is no other responsibility power over spot. but as bus really means a decade, 20 years ago, and i found his son for the goal of routing out terrorism. for the goal of completely wiping out, there were enough protest on became debt to somehow help up on some big mission estate, which we should not expect kind of new mission is to build it. but we expect that the american came for the same goal of who to go carol, but after 20 years from top one to talk about frontiers of to present just not responsible. just responsible. if only did make sure that what became for fruit on terrorism, and they left the country for us for our cell, while school dockwood investment of the international committee,

together with the afghan people, we could have built on to stick. but in which that did not happen. now, why did that happen to complete the end of the story? i'm messing at the 50 for longer, it would have been processed. no, i do believe in what you say that i've not done at the end of the day. we have to depend on ourselves. we have to depend our resources. we have to depend on our geography to reach consistency. we do believe in that but but provided that we are being allowed to do so look good here the book i make addicted to holton brought one president after another president need to come out and post everybody there on us after 220 years. the give it back to the title, but now some other countries are invoked. so this is kind of, as i mentioned out type situation. yes, you're right, we have to do it ourselves. but to see if we can, if i'm going to put units for the last hope and pray for that, doesn't matter. we have to leave it there. thank you very much for sharing it. thank you. thank you. and thank you for watching you hope to see you again next

week on the well, the part ah with who who's

ah, and so as to shake the way karen? i say we march 20 years since the us and its allies invaded afghanistan, toppling the taliban regime. and now in the wake of the american pull out many questions are still being asked with filings. they're still on the rights also become ramp and gas prices scale down in europe after russia pledge is to be supplies to move though hasn't stopped us politicians from blatant moscow for the crisis. and the austrian chancellor, sebastian curse, quit submit allegations of embezzlement and bribery.