back for 10 years like 20 years, like 10 years, 20 it does, has been a very unfortunate scenario for us. what of course, when we raised our voice, we're not on the kind of a skeptical about their telephone. but of course about the pack us about dish players will using avalon, a son as a scapegoat, as a game, as a playground, as a mag grounds for rivalry, for one of that, this is the afghans, the so our people what the victim will really paying the price, we're paying very heavy price. this is recently we have paid after 20 years that out people built some life. it was all just basic. but on 40, once again, they played again the whole thing like that was a game to go back 20 years back. now have to start to get from the scratch, from digital, where we all come to point in our lives, in our countries when we have to choose whether our amateur for something is bigger than our law for something. and i,

you clearly have many grievances when the taliban, i wonder though if it's at this point that bigger than your concern for the country canyon. this edge a scenario under which your very different vision for the country could be somehow reconcile. we have been trying very hard and not to i get done for the past one half years. there have been some notice to close piece process that up on the sun and international community really committed themselves to back that peace process . and that is why the people off of want to son know confident that they didn't update this piece process, which is backed by the tamisha community was somehow succeed. what, what happened? then some players come and the whole piece, process me a scrap under that sort of politic sort of piece of an attack. some players come and they just want to enhance to strengthen their own interest on a song. so it means a how can we trust me, who i wasn't,

he asked me the only people you can trust the people of afghanistan and, and the very least they are the common place to represent some of them. why do you believe that the international community, whatever a promise to you can actually deliver that? because i cannot remember a single example when it comes to the case there. if you can see when they have actually growing that, that words work and result into something tangible. well, as used to put it right the that, that man to people we have to really process the people of our funds. and we did, of course, we tried our best, but again, as the proxy water starts, then of course, we have to really look at those people who are being used. if, even if they are asked guns against, ask guns against people for us. and i guess our country will have to raise our voice. i mean, we tried very hard. let me say that, not now. even when my brother was alive, he tried his best to reach a sort of reconciliation with

a ton of money. he himself went along to the stronghold of the call about mit with the leadership of the trial. upon alone, only with one got to really see if there's a compromise who did as a kind of a space to do it. but of which it did not happen. why? because that donavon are not the master of your own destiny. so therefore, some other people can dictate to tolerant policy or you're being use of the proxy force. and of course, the end result of the same, a boy who is that? exactly? been using the taliban because there are many conspiracy theories around the indian national politics. who do you think stands behind the taliban at this moment? well, i mean, apart from the conspiracy choose, we all know that i focused on had been a very strong support of the talented us. no doubt about the sponge. we all know that group isn't of the united states. a staunch supporter up to touch upon. he was the one who really reached that moment with the target bunch. we did not the

content of the demon, but he was the one who really kind of brought about the situation today that we are seeing it are fun to stop. and of course, like them to many others were playing the same sort of game. so i saying, i'm sorry for interactive, but i saying that despite the fact that americans have essentially a laugh, that they are now using the child. and as that proxy on the ground, is that what you're trying to suggest here? well, if the american have been represented by dr. phil, is that a surely that he as a special representative for the american to bring peace and i've thought of son is responsible for the situation. and i wasn't today especially that now there are talks about that this was not, this went up to trying to bunch, we change the situation altogether, but it was arrangement by dr. result. and some others would deliver the power from the government to the tyler block. that is now ready. 6 scenario because every

general, every politician, well i've been involved in the center of a lot of fun making that that was not because of his neck of the tunnel. that was what took beforehand, especially by blue water plant. now he said recently that there are taliban fighters, dorm and in a banjo valley, why i'm a dormant and what needs to happen for that to be a way can well, let's do that at the beginning when the time on came, of course, before the telephone came the ghost of the telephone came, there was so much publicity that the telephone was so strong. so that was monday, the the 2nd because of some sort of arrangement as i mission. my doctor is up by doctor. i need my doctor. my have my son. i just took him to governor that was put the title on came to the seed, but then people were shock that it was such a big, powerful force, so called the talent. so there are 2 completely shock. now was the problem i've

taken over. people have realized the look at other children. look, it was not the same as spent as they used to be as not. now the people are coming up and coming back this a lot, we have to resist for our country. we have to live it. that is why we are saying that today is not only talent, tens of thousands of volunteers. fighters were fighting for deliberation. honestly, that's what it is today right now in the gram with the ambassador, mr. if you believe they all positions you, the taliban ideas about afghanistan, a so strong. why do you need to call for international support? isn't that actually, you know, the greatest thing that could happen to any society your own, you know, social force is being mobilized and galvanized you directly on future that you should have no reason to complain about it. well, let's put a dispute. as i mentioned that the study grows now it's almost one and a half months that the top one have taken over. now we can see the sports or can we go? now one will then to do something. but at the same time,

we really have to kind of cleared the mind of the people, the public opinion that the situation we have to really tell them that our country is in that situation. there are some ports are coming from outside. it's kind of a proxy what spend our country have been use for the interest of those people. we did a half the core for international support. if you believe that this isn't a national terrorism, or the top one is part of the international carol networks. of course, we need a support, at least at the level of a political or moral support to see the clock you're right and you're wrong. so we really kind of want, who's supposed to call on to back down. you see, every day we can hear that you're calling for the recognition of the polymer. we need to have to kind of tell the world that this is your moral support to back down from that to completion. because if you recognize that one, it will be a big mistake like you have done right now. while there is clearly no birth

international support, i think that there has clearly been as lori of backdoor diplomatic activity. i know for a fact that the russian officials have double down the triple down there. your agent is, as i'm sure, have many other countries. and i think at the regional consensus for now is to make sure that what happens in afghanistan state in afghanistan. what do you think about this approach and we all know that there because each country have got their own interest. we know that i find a supplement, not only an african problem. it's kind of a deep political problem of different countries in bolton. i found some, we know that one, but at the same time, as you said at the beginning, right, we ask on people, we have the right to, we kind of make sure that we should survive the whole kind of these games. we have to make that enough kelvin column for the installation. cumulative stuff want to start. this is not a playground for if the forced played on game like that. we have to make sure to

tell our people to give them the confidence that we are here for you. and we really kind of, i mean, we have to make sure many, many things. so therefore, what you're saying is that since it's a very deep down to political changes and i've gone to sun and it will take much longer time to really determine what can happen. so therefore, since this our country, we have to determine that our people can survive a message. this is exactly what i think your neighbors are doing. of course, to find out what is rather than madeline in your affairs, as they have done for many, many years. they have learned the hard way that claim proxy games in afghanistan. never brains, anything valuable. it always ends up costing more. so it is, you know, then for calling for international support. yes, i mean, when we say that the initial support, that is a let's say, can we call on our neighbor to really kind of see relief. i've got

a son to help us on a son, as i find a son wanting up on some florida understand what should be called for the extra regional power to sort of well decide on it. so we have so much of history time. it's the time that everybody have to come as a sub sub consciences around afghanistan. we have got the right to really call because as i mentioned before, this is not the problem of the afghans themselves inside up wasn't only just a much deeper problem of different countries being played. and i want to sense, so that's why we are calling on sellers to support. but it does not mean that you should not be to work on a fit you're supposed to have been doing it. i mean, look, as i mentioned before, 20 years ago when my brother was a life we were did want to this, how exactly we can commit it, but to talk about our position and 20 years back to still we're kind of kind of looking forward to see how exactly we can make sure that this is afghanistan, what i've got so we can reach that range from one and it be easier to shoot without

anyone sort of standing nearby and telling you how it should be done best. because i mean, i think i'm in, in my years of power international politics, international support never comes without change the task, if there is some power that is supposed to be helping you always want something in return. now you have to tell them clearly not been most friendly looking government, but shouldn't be given a try. simply because it seems to be the grassroots force as ugly as it may be. they come from afghanistan and perhaps they have, does have own interest in seeing the country develop as i mentioned before, but it passed one hm. years there was a peace process going god, what happened that didn't off today that was rejected on can give a for about a month and a half and it usually takes longer even in the most established democracy is to

form a functioning government. should you give them, you know, a here a couple of years before we actually come up with a judgment, whether you know they are worth, are sold and not one at this moment, the bond isn't there in the field. i mean, you have got a spot that wasn't their feel they have to take the initiative. what exactly they can do so far, what we can see, look at the government, look at the cabinet, look at their policies, look at their that they're unable to deliver for you. people have wanted to look at the power to look at. look at it. we have not had it well, and that's at a message. let's look at all those things after a very short break and we'll be back to the discussion and just to thank you, ah,

these are the 4 people who pulled the trigger and survive something on survival. one of the hardest things that i had the face was not having a face. i had a low expectation of life. i accepted death accept the fact that i made that work. we had no fears. dell change pretty fast for shots. different stories behind the bullets. join me every thursday on the alex silent. sure. but i'll be speaking to guess in the world of politics, sport business, i'm show business. i'll see you then. aah!

holcomb actually to part with my brother of the late resistance later much on my so and format i'm going to send back to the united kingdom and before the break we started talking about the taliban. and clearly you see that being said, for governance that you actually said that there's not much difference between the modern day taliban and what they used to be in the 1990s. but there's clearly a difference that's been fighting in the mountain ranges. ronnie, social affairs, even in the most practical form. so even if there is no change in ideology, there is clearly a change in priorities in means of achieving them as well as in the immediate considerations. doesn't that count for something? well, now that my missing that a lot of things have changed, but unfortunately,

what, what is the changes like years ago, the thought on were different today or more violent than ever before? 20 years ago, the really kind of the stick with center of principal. so talk to they did not have non principal at all except that they are using this principal can, has their own interest. but years ago there was some sort of kind of dialogue with the others to see what they can do today. they are so kind of restrict your dilemma . if you check your chicken one cabinet from one misty call question and from from inside question do just completely concentrate on what's called the so called about did not get no power sharing for anybody, for any of that. it's not to forget that, and i want to say there are more than $34.00 of them. a lot of good news if you want to miss burton, i might to the spot about just a fraction of question. so one of the rights of the other 20 years ago, i mean, 20 years ago, there was me probably one other, an international terrorist network club plaza. but today you have got an issue with

different was for international terrace network. i'm going to work on the group should yes, well, unfortunately the change has changed from back to worse. not better, not better. now i know that you have called for the creation of the taliban and resistance government and it's been reported in the media that some members of your extended family have even so to get some support for this idea from foreign powers, but so far, none of them will be in russia, france, none of them have endorsed it. why do you think more in power is, are so has it and about forming some sort of a shadow or resistance government? you split it this week, i mean, different international cube. we need to do a skeptical look, everything up front. so right now, as i mentioned at the beginning, that the key situation, the problem of our plan isn't, it's not a merely ask one problem. it's a deep down political problem, which in most many countries,

many players. so therefore you can see that the different countries, they are making maneuver, you know, but they're not making kind of decision because this state is so big, so high. so therefore, nobody look at the tone of a situation almost want to have gone one half months gone, but it still does no country ready to recognize are tied up on to the government. i'm not even ready to engage with the tell about. so the situation is kind of a general situation, all of a fun to some that let's talk about this issue of recognition because i find it very interesting and very characteristic of modern days your project. because on the one hand, nobody is in rush, you recognize the government or even sort of minimizing by removing its terrorist label. but on the other hand, everybody is in toss of the tower been and used to be a rather convenient situation for the so called international community which lies to raise or leap service international law. but also engaging reformulate

a terrorist group behind closed doors. and would you actually see the situation continue with them pretending and you know, the italian is still a terrorist organization, or would you rather have them recognize it so that they can assume some responsibility for who they're dealing with? well, let's put a dispute that what exactly the installation committee requested. ask for. tyler bond is that too fast and was to cut tie when to terrace network. you're not able to cut tie with intellectual, tara smith work because you're parked off the top on the can not catch me. going to do it to people who really initially had to tie them on to take over. so therefore, they cannot enter mission committee, cannot accept the situation the 2nd natalia but have not been able to really introduce a government which could really represent up on the church because their policy are so rigid, it's kind of comp complete because concrete, what the university values johnson about the woman about the men,

about the request, about education and everything. and another thing which is really kind of concerned it's alicia committee, since the game is everywhere else, kind of everybody kind of waiting to see what happens to the next game. so then they can decide and set up on sun. so it means that a lot of so has been played for a much bigger game. so elsewhere rather than a fun, isn't it. so that is why you cannot make up their minds so quickly. i apologize for my next question because it may come across as part of the sunday, but i'm asking simply because i don't know the situation on the ground well enough on after so many here is of violence. do you think the society still has this capacity of managing its affairs civilly and al, sent me without resorting to violence, but also without pretending to be what it is? not because for many years, i think, especially under the american occupation, i'm can institutions by which i'm going to be what they were not. well, i mean,

let's put it that says so when i make a left, there was expectation that when they leave they can leave responsibility. then the people are wasn't, can bill what is going to achieve for the past 20 years. but unfortunately, they left responsibility. the situation company, they came in to the situation and now it's kind of blues kind of possibility, which for that to destroy. now, i'll check that you can talk once again, and they have to struggle from the zeal, of course, provided that if the total on allow that situation really prevail, it's becoming kind of difficult. i mean, there was some after 20. are there a sense of confidence that the african spend a bit similar, but we can make it out so we can change our so we can build a new and i could have everybody look. but now, when it says the title one kid, that's sort of cod fitness, who did died right now, it has died. there is no card for the spoken sort of positive. it's not only as

a politician, i see on a political border, is it? this is the common after people who set up on their hopes, direct dreams that has died because of the situation. and as i said, i strongly sympathize and emphasize the empathize of your feelings. because as a, you know, as a child of the former soviet union, i've been through that. i've seen a situation when one day you wake up and you can choose no more. and all that worth yesterday is no longer working. but i also leave. i know that from the live experience that that would be built in the country with its people together. and if it counts only on, it sounds not on some of it, somebody else's, but on its own resources. that's why i'm asking you whether you think there is still a capacity for the afghans despite the asset of the taliban and the real danger that it represents to many members of your society. i don't want. do you think the

energy of wanting to turn the taliban into a beautiful country then it is a very rich frenchman, by the way, both in terms of mineral resources and, and geographic location. do you think there is enough anon to laugh in your country? it's you, you know, for, i've got a son to truly play, take it deserved grace in the world. let's put it dissipated. i mean, to come to that question. if we really want to have something and i find us on a peaceful up on our prosperity, finest and up us in which can depend on itself. we don't, we have but 2 alternative one is to ask and i'm sort of have to reach out of consciences amongst them. so this is the 1st letter you sent up on the 2nd letter of peace and i found some which is completed related to the fuss club is due in regional countries. have to reach chunks of conferences about afghanistan. so this is the one player, this is the 2nd player. what dependent can come together induct with thought of

some douglas talk. but the problem is that we don't have to incite punch. this is neither the outside crunches it. but when we try to really kind of reach a sort of insight consensus, of course, there are it. this is the problem. there are other ideological problem, derek terror, things. but so far as we try to reach then of course some player comes and you have got their own agenda and i've got a son and some corrupt politician. they go along with them in a been to, to west. again, our country come to the same sort of cycle at the same time when we, what we decide to get other regional countries to come to some sort consensus. once again, every other regional countries have got different gender, different views. so therefore, we have not been able kind of to force a note in our funds that has been effected by each other. it's not that only the africans are there. we have got one with 6 neighbors, all their neighbors still kind of affecting the situation of what i said. i only have time for one more question and i want it to be

a hypothetical question. there is a human saying that better and ending with pain than a pain without ending. and if they're truly honest, i think we have to have met at the last couple of years. american presence in afghanistan as essentially have essentially maintained the state of limbo with some semblance of security, but with very, very little social progress. it was just expanding the necessary let's say the americans had paid for another day. do you think that would have improved the situation in your country? no. what i'm trying to say is this. after america wanted to go, of course, welcome to go. what we wanted. we ask that when you go after 20 years, you better go to responsibility. not to give it to hand it over to the tyler on not to kind of set up. ok. that's it may not be because there is no other

responsibility power over spot. but as bus really means a decade, 20 years ago, enough, finest on for the goal of routing out terrorism. for the goal of completely wiping out, there were enough protest on became debt to somehow help boston to big mission estate, which we should not expect kind of new mission is to build it. but we expect that damage came for the same goal of looking at taylor. but after 20 years from tom, i want to talk about frontiers to present as much as possible, just responsible. if only did make sure that what became for who took care of them and they left the country for us for our cell, while school dockwood, the investment of the international committee, together with the african people, we could have built on this thing. but in which that did not happen. now, why did that happen just completely out of the story, but i'm not saying that to 50 for longer. it would have been processed. no, i do believe in what you say that i've not done at the end of the day. we have to depend on ourselves. we have to depend on resources. you have to depend on

geography to reach consistency. we do believe in that but, but provided that we'll be allowed to do so look, good kids go got me convicted. the whole thing brought one president after another president, the comment and post everybody there on us. after 2 point here is the give it back to the title, but now some other countries are invoked. so this is kind of, as i mentioned, i'll type situation. yes, you're right, we have to do our so, but let's see if we can, if i'm going to put units for the last hope and pray for the semester, we have to leave it there. thank you very much for sharing it. thank you. thank you . and thank you for watching you hope to see you again next week on the well to part. ah with

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a house wife could secure regular employment status. it's in the final semester with ah, in the stories that shaped the week we march 20 years since the u. s. and allies invaded afghanistan, toppling the taliban regime. and now in the wake of the pentagon, pull out many questions are still being asked with violence. they're continuing to rage up and gas prices scaled down. in europe, off the russia pledges to boost supplies, but the move have them stop us politicians from blaming moscow for the crisis. and the rapid rise of one of europe's youngest leaders comes to a dramatic hold has austrian leader sebastian kurtz quits, and that allegations of embezzlement. and.