oh, welcome to wells fargo from taking said janice, that has been never been just business and no one's responsibility. other powers, big and small perceived that on the agenda there with little regard for the countries constance or aspirations of the calibre has abandoned familiar status. the question, again, essence trajectory and what it for tens for the region as a whole is more thrashing than ever to discuss with him now joined by month loading was sued. brother of the late resistance, later my chuck muscle and form afghan essence ambassador to the united kingdom ambassador miss it. it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for finding the time. you're welcome. thank you very much. thank you. now, a few days after the taliban, i claimed it took full control off afghanistan. you called for international support and i assume and agreeing to this interview, you are also seeking to mobilize the international public opinion. and i know that you are clearly mistrustful of the taliban. you have reasons for, you know,

holding that opinion. but i wonder why i, you know, equally skeptical or cynical of the so called international community because foreign powers have used your country so cruelly, so cynically, for so many years. why asked for their support now. thanks very much. well, let me 1st, i agree that i totally agree, that unfortunately our country has been used and misuse. and no matter how much we try to make something at the end of the day and something to cancel because of their own interest. they use our county once again, we go back for 10 years for 20, for 10 years. 20. that has been a very unfortunate scenario for us. what of course, when we raised our voice, we're not on the kind of skeptical about the taliban. but of course about the packers about dish players. well, using avalon, a son as a scapegoat, as a game,

as a playground, as a mag counsel rivalry for all of that, this is the afghans, the so our people what the victim will really paying the price we're paying very heavy price. listen recently, we have paid after 20 years that out people built some life. it was all just basic . but and 40, once again, the plate again, the whole thing like that was again, we go back 20 years back now we have to start to get from the scratch, from digital. what we all come to point in our lives, in our countries when we have to choose whether our amateur for something is bigger than our law for something. and i, you clearly have many grievances when the taliban. i wonder though if it's at this point that bigger than your concern for the country canyon this edge a scenario under which your very different vision for the country could be somehow reconciled. we have been trying very hard and not to get that for the past one half

years. there have been us on notice to piece process that up on the sun and international community. really committed themselves to back that peace process. and that is why the people off of want to son know confident that it didn't update this piece process, which is backed by the tamisha community was somehow succeed. what's happening then some class comes and the whole piece process me a scrap under that sort of critic sorta piece of an attack. somebody has come and they just want to enhance to strengthen their own interest and i promise them. so it means a who can request. i mean, who, i mean the only people you can trust the people of afghanistan and, and the very least they tell them place to represent some of them. why do you believe that the international community, whatever i promised you, you can actually deliver that because i cannot remember

a single example when it comes to the kids there. if you can see when they have actually growing that, that words work and result into something tangible well, as used to put it right, the dead man do people, we have to really process the people of our fonts. and we did, of course, we tried our best, but again, as the proxy water starts, then of course, we have to really look at bliss. people who are being used. if even if they are asked guns against, ask guns against people off was what i guess our country will have to raise our voice. i mean, we tried very hard. let me say that, not now. even when my brother was alive, he tried his best to reach a sort of reconciliation with a ton of money. he himself went along to the stronghold of the parliament, met with the leadership of the trial upon alone, only with one got to really see if there is a compromise who did as a kind of a space to do it. but of which it did not happen. why? because the taliban or not the master of your own destiny. so therefore,

some other people can dictate to tolerant policy or you're being use of the proxy force. and of course, the end result of the same. a boy who is that exactly who has been using the taliban? because many conspiracy theories around the indian national politics. who do you think stands behind the taliban at this moment? well, i mean, apart from the conspiracy choose, we all know that i focused on have been a very strong support of the tal upon jet us. no doubt about this one. we all know that the president of the united states, actually, i've been a staunch supporter to turn on. he was the one who really reached back with a ton a bunch. we just not the content of the agreement, but he was the one who really kind of brought about the situation today that we are seeing it. i find a sub. and of course like them to many others were playing the same sort of game. so i say, i said, i'm sorry for interactive,

but i saying that despite the fact that americans have essentially got a laugh, dan, now using the taliban as that proxy on the ground. is that what you're trying to suggest here? well, if the american have been represented by dr. phil, is that assuredly that he has a special representative for that. i mean again, to bring peace and i've thought a son is responsible for the situation and up wasn't today especially that now there are talks about that that was not this went up to turn on. we change the situation altogether, but it was arrangement by doctor result and some others would deliver the power from the government to the tyler block. that is now there are 6 scenarios because every general, if the politician been involved in the center of a lot of fun making that, that was not because of his strength of the tunnel on that was what beforehand, especially by loose water plant. now he said recently that there are thousands of

the taliban fighters dorm and in the band, jerry valley. why? i'm a dormant and what needs to happen for them to be a way can well, let's do that at the beginning when the time on came. of course, before the telephone came, the ghost of the time came, there was so much publicity that the telephone was so strong. so that was one of the 2nd because of some sort of arrangement. as i mentioned, my doctor is up by doctor. i need my doctor, my, my son, i just told him to go out of put the title one came to the seed. but then people were shock that that was such a big, powerful force, so called a talent. so there are 2 completely shock. now was the problem i've taken over. people have realized to look at other children. look, it was not the same as spent as they used to be. it's not now the people are coming up and coming back to say, look, we have to resist for our country. we have to label it. that is why we are saying that today is not only thousands, tens of thousands of volunteers. fighters were fighting for deliberation of i've

got one, that's what it is today right now in the gram with the ambassador message, if you believe that the opposition to the taliban ideas about afghanistan is so strong, why do you need to call for international support? isn't that actually, you know, the greatest thing that would happen to any society your own, you know, social forces being mobilized and galvanized you directly on future. and you should have no reason to complain about it. well, let's put a dispute. as i mentioned that the study grows now it's almost one and a half months that the top one half takes about. now we can see the sports or can we go? now, one will then to do something. but at the same time, we will have to kind of cleared the mind of the people, the public opinion that this the situation we have to really tell them that our country is in that situation. there are some ports are coming from outside. it's kind of a proxy word and our country has been used for the interest of those people. we

will have the core for international support. if you believe that this isn't a national pair of them, or the top one is part of the international carol networks, of course we do need a support at least at the level of political or moral support to say, look, you're right and you're wrong. so we really kind of one who's supporters of the toner on to back down. you see, every day we can hear that you're calling for the completion of the problem. we need to have to kind of tell the world that this is your moral support to back down from that to completion because if you recognize that one would be a big mistake like you have done right now, while there is clearly no, i've heard international support i think there has clearly been as laurie of backdoor diplomatic activity, i know for a fact that the russian officials have double down if the triple down there your agent is as i'm sure have many other countries. and i think at the regional

consensus for now is to make sure that what happens in afghanistan state in afghanistan. what do you think about this approach? we all know that there, because each country have got their own interest. we know that that's fine, as long as it's not only an african problem, it's kind of a deep political problem of different countries and votes. and i found some, we know that one. but at the same time, as you said at the beginning, right, we ask on people, we have the right to, we kind of make sure that we should survive the whole kind of gauge. we have to make that enough kelvin column for the dilution cumulative stuff. want to start, this is not a playground for the forced on game like that. we have to make sure to tell our people to give them to confidence that we are here for you. and we really kind of, i mean, we have to make sure many, many things. so therefore, what you're saying is that since it's a very deep down to political changes and i've got a son and it will kick much longer time to really determine what can happen. so

therefore, since this our company, we have to determine that our people can survive a message. this is exactly what i think your neighbors are doing. of course, to find out what is rather than madeline. your affairs, as they have done for many, many years. they have learned the hard way that plague proxy games in afghanistan, never brains, anything valuable. it always ends up costing more. so it is, you know, then for calling for international support. yes, i mean, when we sit up in financial support, that gives us, let's say, can we call on our neighbor to really kind of see relief. i've got a son to help us on a son, as an honest man, one to go on some florida minus and what should be called for the extra regional power to sort of well this up on it. so we have so much of history. time is to kind of everybody have to come to sub consciences around that kind of stuff. we have got

the right to really call because as i mentioned before, this is not the problem of the afghans themselves. inside of one isn't only just a much deeper problem. of different countries being late and i want to some so that's why you're calling on sellers to support. but it does not mean that you should not be to work on a fit you're supposed to have been doing it. i mean, look, as i mentioned before, 20 years ago when my brother was a life we was did want to see how exactly we can commit it. but it's all about our position and 20 years back to still, we're kind of kind of looking forward to see how exactly we can make sure that this is afghanistan. what i've got to so we can reach that some of our agents will be easier to shoot without anyone sort of standing nearby and telling you how it should be done best. because i mean, i think i'm in, in my years of power international politics, international support never comes without change the task, if there is some power that is supposed to be helping you always want something in

return. now you have to tell them clearly not been most friendly looking government, but shouldn't be given and try simply because it seems to be the grassroots force as ugly as it may be. they come from afghanistan and perhaps they have all, does her own interest in seeing the country develop as i mentioned before, but at past one hm. years there was a piece process going god, what happened that then dr. date that was rejected altogether? a for about a month and a half and it usually takes longer even in the most established democracy, to form a functioning government. should you give them, you know, a here a couple of years before we actually come up with a judgment, whether you know they are worth they're sold or not one at this moment, the bond isn't there in the field. i mean, they have got a spot,

there wasn't their feel they have to take the initiative. what exactly they can do so far, what we can see, look at the government, look at the cabinet, look at their policies, look at that. they're unable to deliver for you. people have wanted to look at the poverty. look at, look at it. we have not had it well, and that's it. a message. let's look at all those things after a very short break and we'll be back to the discussion in just a moment. thank you. ah, who oh, in the way of life a reindeer herders leading a traditionally nomadic lifestyle in the tundra is similar to a parallel reality. while the men drive, the hood, women carry the weight of the household work on their shoulders rather than with

full spread sheet. now, with, however, in the vast expanse of russia, there is a spot where a house wife could secure regular employment status. it's in the final semester with with mm hm. actually the part with my brother of the late resistance later my check my so and format dennison's and back to the united

kingdom ambassador message before the break, we started talking about the taliban. and clearly you see that being said, for governance that you actually said that there's not much difference between b one and day taliban and what they used to be in the 99 just but there's clearly a difference between fighting in the mountain ranges. ronnie, social affairs, even in the most repressive form. so even if there is no change in ideology, there is clearly a change in priorities in means of achieving them as well as in the immediate considerations. doesn't that count for something? well now that my message that a lot of things have changed, but unfortunately what, what is the changes like years ago to taliban were different today or more violent than ever before. 20 years ago did really kind of to stick with some sort of

principal so called principal today did not have non progressive at all except that they are using this principle to enhance their own interest. 20 years ago, there was some sort of kind of dialogue with the others to see what they can do today. they are so kind of restrict limited to each other chicken, one cabinet from one big, misty called question. and from, from inside question do just completely concentrate on what's called the so called target, but did not get no polishing for anybody else. and it is not the ones that are more than $34.00 of them are larger. that needs to be one of them, especially especially this part about just a fraction of question. so what are the rights of the ad? but 2 years ago, i mean, 20 years ago, there was me probably one other, an international terrorist network club plaza. but today i've got connection with different was for international terrace network. i'm going to work around the group

. so yes, well, unfortunately the teams have changed from back to worse. not better, not better. now i know that you have called for the creation of the taliban resistance government, and it's been reported in the media that some members of your extended family have even so to get some support for this idea from foreign powers. but. # so far, none of them can be russia, france, none of them have endorsed. why do you think warren powers are so has it and about for me, some sort of a shadow or resistance government. yes, but it this week, i mean, different international kid, we need to do a lot, everything in a fun. so right now, as i mentioned at the beginning that the situation, the problem of a fun isn't, it's not a merely ask one problem. it's a deep down political problem which involves many countries, many players. so therefore you can see that the different countries, they are making maneuver, you know, but you're not making kind of decision because this state is so big, so high. so,

you know, but look at the tone of a situation almost when you have gone one half months gone, but it's still, there's no country ready to recognize a title on the government. i'm not even ready to engage with the tell about. so the situation is kind of a general situation all of our fund. so let's talk about this issue of recognition because i find it very interesting and very characteristic of modern days your project. because on the one hand, nobody is in rush, you recognize the government or even sort of legitimize it by removing its terrorist label. but on the other hand, everybody is in toss of the taliban. and it seems to be a rather convenient situation for the so called international community, which lies to raise the order. they leave service international law, but also engaging, reformulate a terrorist group behind closed doors. and would you actually see the situation continue with them pretending that you know, the talent is still

a terrorist organization, or would you rather have them recognize it so that they can assume some responsibility for who they're dealing with? well, let's put a dispute that what exactly the installation committee and the question asked about is that too fast and was to cut tie with the terrorist network? you're not able to cut tie with intellectual, tara smith work because you're parked off to call upon the cannot catch me. going to do it to people who really initially had to touch on to take over. so therefore they cannot enter mission committee cannot accept the situation. the 2nd, it's all about have not been able to really introduce a government which could really represent up on some turn because the policy are so rigid, it kind of completely goes concrete to what the universal values johnson about the woman about the men about the request about education and empathy, and another thing which is really kind of consented on the community since the game

is everywhere else, kind of everybody kind of waiting to see what happens to the next game. so then they can decide inside a fun son. so it means that a lot of so have been played for a much bigger game. so elsewhere rather than half, what isn't it? so that is why you cannot make up their minds so quickly. i apologize for my next question because it may time for us to sunday, but i'm asking simply because i don't know the situation on the ground well enough on after so many here is of violence. do you think the society still has this capacity of managing its affairs civilly and al, sent me without resorting to violence, but also without pretending to be what it is? not because for many years, i think, especially under the american occupation, i'm can institutions by which i'm going to be what they were not. well, i mean, let's put it that since when i make the left, there was expectation that when they leave they can leave responsibility. then the

people are wasn't, can bill what is going to achieve for the past 20 years. but unfortunately, they left responsibly the situation company, they came in to the situation and now it's kind of blues kind of possibility to which more that to destroy. now, i'll check that it can talk once again. then they have to struggle from 0, of course, provided that if the total on allow that situation really prevail, it's becoming kind of difficult. i mean, there was some after 20. are there a sense of confidence that the afghans kind of be similar, but we can make it are so we can change our so we can build a new math and have everybody look. but now, when it says the title one kid, that's sort of cod fitness, who did died right now, it has died. let us know cartoons poking sort of this. not only as a politician, i see, or a political, what does it, this is the common after people who set up on their hopes. you have dreams that has

died because of the situation. and that's a message i strongly sympathize and emphasize the empathize of your feelings. because as a, you know, as a child of the former soviet union, i've been through that. i've seen a situation when one day you wake up and you can choose no more. and all that worth yesterday is no longer working, but i also leave. i know that from a live experience that, that would be rebuilt in the country with its people together. and it counts only on it sounds not on some of it, somebody else's, but on its own resources. that's why i'm asking you whether you think there is still a capacity for the afghans, despite the outset of the taliban and the real danger that it represents to many members of your society. i don't want. do you think the energy of wanting to turn the taliban into a beautiful country that it is a very reached friendship,

by the way, both in terms of mineral resources and, and geographic location. do you think there is enough anon to laugh in your country? it's you, you know, for, i've got his son to truly play, take its deserved place in the world. well, let's put a dissipated, i mean, to come to that question. if we really want to have something and i find us on a peaceful, up on a prosperous or finest and up us in which can depend on itself. we don't, we'll have to alternative one, his desk and i'm sort of have to reach out of consciences amongst them. so this is the 1st letter of the set up on the 2nd plan of peace. and i found some which is completed related to the fuss club is due in regional countries. have to reach chunks of conferences about that kind of stuff. so this is the one player, this is the 2nd player. what to put a can come together induct with thought of some douglas truck. but the problem is that we don't have to incite punch. this is neither the outside punches. but when

we try to really kind of reach a sort of insight consensus, of course, there are it. this is the problem. there are other ideological problem, derek terror, things. but so far as we try to reach then of course some player comes and they have got their own agenda and i've got a son and some corrupt politician. they go along with them in a been to, to west. again, our country come to the same sort of cycle at the same time when we, what we decide to get other regional country to come to some sort of consensus. once again, every other regional countries have got different agenda, different views. so therefore, we have not been able conduct the force a note in our funds has been effected by each other. it's not only africans like them. we have got one with 6 neighbors, all their neighbors still kind of affecting the situation of what i said. i only have time for one more question and i want it to be a hypothetical question. there is a human saying that better and ending with pain than

a pain without ending. and if they're truly honest, i think we have to have met at the last couple of years. american presence in afghanistan has essentially at hand, essentially maintained the state of limbo with some semblance of security, but with very, very little social progress. it was just extending the necessary let's see, the americans had paid for another day. he g thing that we have him for the situation in the country. no, what i'm trying to say is this. after america wanted to go. of course, welcome to go. watch what we wanted. we ask that when you go after 20 years, you better go to responsibility. not to give it to hand it over to the tyler on not to kind of set up. ok. that's it may not be because there is no other responsibility. power over spot, that is supposed to really means a dig 20 years ago, and i found his son for the goal of routing out terrorism. for the goal of

completely wiping out, there were enough protest on became debt somehow help up on some big mission estate, which we should not expect kind of to mission is to build it. but we expect that the american came for the same goal of the carrier, but after 20 years from top one to talk about frontiers of to player isn't just not responsible. just responsible. if only did make sure that what became for food or terrorism and they left the country for us for our sell off school, dockwood investment of the international committee, together with the afghan people, we could build on to stick. but in push that did not happen. now, why did that happen just completely out of the story. i'm messing at the 50 for longer. it would have been processed. no, i do believe in what you say that i've not as son at the end of the day. we have to depend on ourselves. we have to depend on resources, we have to depend on geography to reach consistency. we do believe in that but but provided that we are being allowed to do so look good kids got make addicted to

holton brought one president after another president need to come out and post everybody there on us after 2 plus years. the give it back to the title, but now some other countries are invoked. so this is kind of, as i mentioned, i'll type situation. yes, you're right, we have to do it ourselves. but to see if we can a 5 minute question, it's for the last hope and pray for that doesn't matter. we have to leave it there . thank you very much for sharing it. thank you. thank you. and thank you for watching you hope to see you again next week on the world's apart. ah, with mm ah.

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happens. you watch kaiser report ah, with in the stories that shaped the week on our team international. we marked 20 years since the us and its allies invaded afghanistan, toppling the taliban regime. and now in the wake of the pentagon, pull out many questions are still being asked with violence. they're continuing to rage lights out for facebook. what's happened and instagram after the company experienced massive outages twice during the week, leaving the firm, nursing $860000000.00 laws with.