[000:00:00;00] ah, ah hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered i'm funeral about again the nobel peace prize misses the mark. the most deserving are again passed over. also the use war against 2 of its member states hungry in poland. ideological had gemini, is demanded, descent not allowed. ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guest, george and you, elleon, budapest. he's

a podcast to read the goggles can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow, we have to meet with bob, which is a political analyst and editor. it knows me internet media project originally across, across the back. that means you can jump anytime you want and ours appreciate it. it's gotta do my 1st year. we had the nobel peace prize awarded. i went to a filipino and russian journalist who is this russian journalist and why give it to a journalist and does he have anything to do with anti war? go head him. well, is just amazing what crap under, because i know it was clear that the west wanted to provoke the ground and into been angry. you know, because read you aren't were out of editor in chief or, and use paper which is called nowhere guys yet, which is not simply critical, or jim, which is paranoid about, you know, ah, that use paper. they publish stories out, you know, we've had this table is fortunate in 99. been. are these women were controlled, been changed now grew up several apartment building in moscow?

so no, it has yet to claim that it was the russian secret services. who did that, and surprisingly, you know, the gremlins reaction was civilized, because i'm sure to say in russia is a blue, realistic country. the brilliant spokesmen, dmitri best course, said, we congratulate me 2 more. he has been consistently walking according to his ideals . he is so and he is brave. of course this is a high appreciate your walk. we congratulate. you know, i walked with meeting for 3 years and i know that he personally is an honest man. he truly believes in liberal ideas and the use of what your brains can you supported. gorbachev, you know amazing that there will be 2 noble prize more as you know way which is more like too much for me. know, tell us, what is the readership, is it popular? is it with, with a certain nisha people i'm aware of it. i've known some of the journalists through

the years, so we don't really off our circle. go ahead. well, this is a newspaper which is basically for paranoid people, you know, people always at the was, there are such people in every country in the united states, you call them conspiracy theorists in russia would have no work on them. but what was amazing was the reaction of the so called russian liberals. you know, they were extremely and have to go to the volley. actually the griffin was much more into football. the if you read the comments from the liberal opposition, it looks like it was a flip in the face for them and not for which no figure all rolled on its reduced form. all of these price is going to be in the face for both. the problem is that these people even need bent. the reality has been some kind of a dictator greg style on every use it. but the creature sizes to battle has been slept in the base,

and here wouldn't just turned another cheek of the flap went by. and in this amazing what the, how, who them, how aggressive these are the liberals are there is a certain wiggle room on them. a full, my tv come and date, and by the way, cool, a basically a role in her reaction. well, the nobel peace prize committee or just the soiled expanse and didn't give it to pneumonia. it's good that it went from where it's bad. it didn't go to nevada and then another liberal curious rogue of explained why. the problem is that not only made some political incorrect statements and the keel rogue of rights in the modern west, you can be a nation, is just once you can make a mistake once. well, what kind of toner and societies that if people are not allowed to have me stakes of you, you know, if everything you said 30 years ago can be used against your this is what silence lasonya union will like and all right. and the,

the amazing thing is that basically the of the russian so called propagandists actually congratulate that more out of to what im or so your was demonized in the west asked who does not belong a fight against the liberals. he said this is good. what? yes, no, only deep make statements. let me paper. he stayed this week. so it's good that this price went to the idealist, liberal murat of doesn't understand the life, but he didn't go to a fascist. they, why don't, i don't have a problem with the, you know, who gets said ok, but george biking go to you. what does this have to do with peace and being against war? i mean i'm, i'm completely mystified. i mean, even for those people, those small number of people to think of only said get it for the peace prize. when does he have to do with peace? go ahead, i mean, and then the next day, george, this home is obese,

prizes just meaningless when it comes to its objective. italy to my can, you know, has i because the, the objective of the peace prize from the beginning had been to a war to this, to people who did something to promote peace, to promote our committee among nations, to promote peace conferences, peace negotiations, the signing of the street is or in the it originally it did go to such people. so, you know, we have teddy roosevelt. he received the nobel peace prize for bringing about the peace agreement between russian, japan pal in the war. in 1005. we had their woodrow wilson because of his work, the was the league of nations and we had the architects of the look on a tree which brought about a brief bit of time people who would be more. busy long lasting, the brief reconciliation between france and germany after world war one. we had our

kellogg long who created the famous calibree on treaty that when nations renounced war as a means of policy. so you know that there were clear examples of getting this award to people who actually working for peace, but it's hard to see whether you know, whether it's not falling in a completely so all. busy right, so what they end up to piece because on the contrary, the reason they gave it to morocco was, well, booting wouldn't be happy and we want to stick a some in the i put in. and that's why he received it. and that's why the many people in the west sharing this all because a this is bad. 3 for russia, therefore, it must be great. but what does he go to do with piece? i mean what, what is no way to get it done for, to promote peace of those? he hasn't the same thing, goes with the rest of the journalist and in the philippines. you know,

a very unpopular with the liberal west of opinion. when again, it's a really, i gave him and she, she receives money from the u. s. government, which again love in the business of promoting peace and they give them money, not because they want her to promote peace. so it's just, again, this is the number of these places just become this political tool, and we have not doing what this supposed to be doing. you know, the demand is the reaction i've seen here. we're both in mosque out here is that, well, i mean, the western liberals like russian liberals, that's why they give it to the number possess ok. but that just confirms to the population here is that, is that these, these at least a piece price is biased. it's a political cudgel, because the reaction here is, is basically okay. i mean, they choose their winners. ok, but it has nothing to do with their so called values. go ahead mean. well, the reaction among the population is certainly more negative than the reaction from

the crowd because we have to use lawrence in russia who are widely known. the 3rd one is an ecologist, but we have, we're much open because we're up. gorbachev you the minds of many people is associated with the collapse of the soviet union, which was a terrible misfortune for medius of people. but much of a was blame, simple novice and murat who has warned much of his motto, the shareholders in she's newspaper, of course it, cleats, him. but people remember, and people remember that more work as it always supported the islamist rebels in chechnya. not chance, you know, there are many honest, the sliding changes who, who are successful in russia. ah, we're just, you know, we have no problem with them. but we had problem with the people like must how the and the, the western press no way because it kept saying that must hunter was somehow a peacemaker. but it all fits elijah context. i mean, the normal piece price could be to who this is

a mixture of subservience and radicalism. who yes, the by says, i'll go for a slide show about global warming obama before he started all of his wars. so this is, you know, they talk about which in spouse it looks like it said, clinton, spouse and obama, spouse could get the door, will be surprised. l more you know, the brock of now and the, and the on the, on the site where there are change it is for this year. my good won't travel vocalization if there is an international organization with which many people have a problem, you know, in the united states, in europe, in rush, oh the, well, that is the world health organization. but these people that are treated liberals, you know, they don't care about public opinion. they want to award someone who fits their ideology and these, that person happens to be close to powers that be in the united states or in europe . so much the better that's there and if you and people on the stand it not only in rush it, george, it's a, it's

a real pity it's gotten down to this. okay. because i can think of a candidate. let me think real hard here. oh julian, a sorry, i think that would be a person that would be very deserving of this. and it would be the slap in the face would go somewhere else of the country that he's being held in the u. k. and the united states that are seeking in his expedition, you know, that would send a signal that the nobel peace prize has meaning because he expose war crimes. i don't think any of these other people that have been, you know, a given the laureate, have done in nearly as much positive of change than chilliness. aren't your thoughts? yes. he expose war crimes as well. he has had an enormous of public impact because people are able to witness to himself these war crimes. ah, therefore he's in the business of, you know, doing something to facilitate peace. so even in the no,

no committee had not wanted to provoke the united states in the u. k. by giving it exclusively julian the son they have at least shed it out, give it to 3 of them. and including a julian, the son didn't even do that. and here is this person who really has sacrificed his life. i mean, he has suffer much more than any of the people that they give these prizes to. oh, they didn't, they didn't do. so it's all in an interesting consideration. why didn't they give it to no harmony? i, i think that they probably were feeling that this is going to be an embarrassment. the biggest and many people would have had a few date being of all sorts of any back embarrassing quotes from him. and indeed them in the novel committee has had these embarrassing moments in the past where they are all of this price to someone. and then 2 years later, he suddenly the villain of the piece. we remember the ethiopian leader now

absolutely hated reviled boston. you know, somebody that samantha power did test, and brittany i wore on ethiopia, very same guy who was received the notebook the spice 2 years ago. and then of course we had the, the leader of beyond law and now used of genocide and so on. so it, it's, it's a kind of an embarrassment they want to avoid no more. i think i retired the, the price to mrs. the mark you. all right, gentlemen, we're gonna go to a short break that's about oh ah, join me every thursday on the alex salmon. sure. i'll be speaking to guess of the world politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. mm. welcome to match

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welcome back to cross up. were all things considered? i'm peter labelle. this is the home edition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah, let's go back to budapest, george and in the aftermath of briggs it, um, it seems brussel was a brussels, has found some new enemies within the ranks. ok. and those 2 countries are poland. and hungary, you're in hungry right now. why he's hungry, being so demonized by the e. u and then i'll ask him of the same for poland. go ahead. well, the hungary and poland o both are explicitly subscribing to values very much at odds with the values of the e. u. leadership, not the same of the people of the you. i mean, because people you met, you know, french many times why conservative people,

but the values that the austin daisha state are promoted by victor or by and the government in poland are definitely conservative. and also with the kind of about the cultural inclusivity open to transgender gay marriage and so on. values that the, you know, the bus are still on the lion, a claim to be our values. if somehow, you know, those people, every one. and so they now they target hungry on everything. so you know that on the education system a way you know, no later than the not prov promoting the kind of gay rights agenda that they, that the hungarian school should be promoting. and now in poem they got the so that those janica bowen wants to reform the judiciary and the you said, are you going like going against? you values again should be within the domestic, both of you. and so now we have the polish

a constitutional call that says that the polish constitution, trunks you law, and you have absolutely bizarre and, and now threatening are obviously threatening to withhold all money to bowen. dollar explicitly threatening to expel colon from the you. interesting enough, the polish a constitutional court ruling last different from the german constitutional ruling, which also says that, you know, the german constitution trying to you law, but you don't pick a fight with germany. you do pick a fight with hunger. so a one size fits all. ok, their values from everyone else is values. ok, i guess that's the price with the take inventory into the you, they get it in the b, e u, they dangle money and other signing things in front of you and but the price is you have to leave your conservative values behind your history. your culture,

your whole ideas about family, all that isn't worth it. go ahead. oh, well, i agree with everything george sands and the european press. i feel so much easier for you because if we believe the new york times see it all the time and the guardian, georgie's in the middle of a table dictatorship ruled by a cru. see it all by installer bern. i don't know how you still alive. can do us the same story with pool and, you know, payable, they have that areas free all l, g, b, g, i, g o, g. well, what a terrible problem. you know, people have been killed by ukrainian government using lanes and banks, you know, whole region of your grain, your grain does not go any food supplies there for 7 years. they cut off and they cut off the water. they don't allow people to speak russian to a salesman, you know, when they come to a shopping gear, which is a russian speaking c,

j that is all and put what is really table, is this l g p g? i george, i go to free areas and bowen, amani should be god for them. you know, that, that has already been done as far as i know from the british press. ah, but you know, so i agree with everything you just said. here is an important probation, i mean, catching scandal, one on karen and borders nationally. they hate to crush you the late eighties and early nights and that was fine with the, you know, they said table earth thinks about it. that was fine. which is, it is very typical situation for our to liberals, you know, to lay your onto the gross or the surface they are for understanding between people's own migration, mixed marriages as well. they fight large contest which other aliens, such as china and russia. now they look for minorities, they look for discontent, neighbors, and suddenly these out liberals ally themselves to all been nancy's among these

minorities and these discontent. a neighbors you know, the and let me just remind you, they used gratian, fascist, again serves. in yugoslavia they used ukrainian nationalists against a russian speaking po, population in ukraine. they use now we go muslim fontanello this against china. so that the problem with her orbit and kuchinski is that they didn't change and the front line moved east, so they're no longer needed. you know, this is now the ukrainian nationalist who can claim all absurd things in the you will forgive them everything. poland is now in that regard, you know, it's far away from the battle. so suddenly they use creaking down on nationalist the been support against russia in the ninety's and the early in the late eighty's and, and purchase. he just doesn't understand it. okay. or when a smart, you understood that bird is, is going to be against you,

that chance he pretends to be, you know, innocent. oh, europe that we wanted to join is not europe that way that we have no, we wanted to join a reach, go a community of christian nations. we joined a bunch of crazy alternate. ringback ros. yes, you need. yes. yes. oh sure. will george seek? this is, this is what terrifies brussels be that there are people within the european union far, far more than brussels is willing to admit that actually can have conservative values and don't have the values of this unelected bureaucracy than rules over the u. okay . and what they're terrified of is it, oh my goodness. oh, and hungry they might start resembling russia. oh, the horror of it, after all the money and decades of work in it, we're not getting what we what we demanded. ok. i mean, they're angry about it that way, you know,

because you can only go one way in history. there's only one direction. one arc of history did the, this is what they truly believe. and that's why, for me, it's pathetic. is it going to take the money away from you? that's what it's all about. that's all you're transactional. ok? you're just transactional. you're really not. you're really not about value at all . go ahead. i exaggerate. and it's very funny what the, the, we're just going to down because we will remember back in the late 19 seventy's and . busy in 1008 is when there was a catholic, poke a, who visited poland and all spelled out on an east and west. i'm amazed. oh, isn't this wonderful? the polls their own catholics and this, you know, they all hail is great man. like leading them in the anti communist direction and now something they find g. the bowls a catalyst. you know, what do you know?

we don't know that they have strong views about bush and they have strong views about gay marriage and strong use about family we. we don't like that, you know, forget, all right, so that was all very useful back then. but now i out also with what, you know, the, the, so the e, you, your leadership beliefs are european values. but of course, you know, these are the european bellies. he's got the self appointed, the lead that the of the course of it, but you're being very, but here you have the problem. the pawn has been to the hungry doesn't have, which is a bond, doesn't have that many options on real as a long time ago. that they can't really rely on the way you otherwise they're always going to be bullied and go up and have the fonts cut off. so on the rate is looking around in the world and says, hey, we have a business partner in russia. we can, we can have

a natural gas provided to us by russia, where business, wagner, china, so, you know, the, you can often often threaten us, but they can't do much for us because, you know, there's a wider world outside and where we can get rich. poland hasn't done that, a home owners has cultivated bad relations with russia, so it doesn't quite have the leverage that hungry. and it's interesting to, you know, you know, european values values come from people ok doesn't come from organizations and it doesn't come from your receipts here. and i am very glad that poland is standing up, but it's pair because these people are merciless. this ideology is merciless in one size fits all, it's our way or the highway. so what's next for poland and probably what's next for 100. what's next is more sanctions. what's next is more pressure, but you will be pointing the civic platform that you'll loyal party involvement,

which has more several actions on the you will be supporting them for the next election. they will try to get the jokes as the president of poland, probably if they try to oust do they failed? they will try again. and of course, there will be conspiracy theories about connections, connections between orbit and moscow, and what is even more terrible different kuchinski small school, which is just a mad you know. but, you know, just recently after this, even we had 5 years of brushy gate. i'm ready, i'm ready for us as the freshest and the most absurd conspiracy theory is now that made you more out of what is a normal piece price of you know, now you can read in that on the liberal science, you're in russia, that he's a deeply seated wouldn't agent. so putting has been in contact with heal sin sir the year, 2000, all of which is on to us. more suspect of roger's at this b or

a boy in our partner books. so they call it booting. scanned food, you know, some deeply can or a secret agents. so the say where i want to hear about kuchinski, that the problem is that this very radical extremist, i know, and she requires bad people. and that it's not ashamed of playing on the worst feelings inside humans. you know, a inclination to conspiracy theorist is, is a very, very, you know, it's human, you know, people have that inclination and, and the 3rd day and i just always use it. you know, way cheaper use the biggest jews start in use that against the reach. now they're using against their political opponents. every thing that can find that is bad in human nature, you know, suspicion of the government. no suspect in every reach person over over being dishonest and being dangerous to society. put in labels your home a full,

your race is you know, recording what people said in private and then a broadcast anywhere your chair you know, towards last seconds or all these people have is just labels for people and smears . 15 seconds later labels. but of course, they said a very bad example for everyone else because suddenly, you know, there's an election coming up in france is electric coming up in italy and they kind of look to buy, i'm hungry. i think this is a really bad. we don't want also the fun to lie and telling us what our values are supposed to be. so that's why i want to dispose of poland. and this program i've run out of time, want to take my guess. watching sir, are you see you next? i remember, oh, ah,

a wrong when old fools just don't hold any rules yet to see out disdain because the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, it was the most basic or could i still not believe go, he did. who bought? i bought a dial. tomato. a couple of pretty than you quite. but i know from politicians to athletes and movies. does the musicals, does it seems every big name in the world has been here less yearbook ms. euclid corpus christi school. oh, what do i she budget when you get a call when you finish with? give me

a glover. miss. bethany said basil makes dreams come true. that every one who falls in love with people threatening like wide mm. with miss alice help headlines here. what are tate and claims that pre shipping reports, sex crimes against children, if they are revealed during confession cease or friendship? bishop, someone by the interior minister, we speak to a victim of child sex abuse by the clergy who says simply admitting guilt, not enough for home loans to let this childhood trauma is engraved in my memory. very precise details. one can not commit crimes and simply say i am ashamed of the