christian knew whether you could separate the national drama variable here that were in your box from the man's impact, which is on a shorter time change or time scale and to separate these 2 long time changes and the short time changes through management. but most of these are challenges we out of that time. i'm the well the so we have so, so somebody uses them so gradually, right now demonstrated quite clearly that man is changing time and we have to do something about it. i'll get on to the opponents during your search at a moment. but one thing that may surprise people who don't know as much as you do is your use of quantum field theory. i thought quantum mechanics is all about tiny little things and you're using something about if you're ethical about dad, about oceans, which a huge things wanted to be a famous a physicist and you are now

a, a physics are not unfortunately. so i went to do common research, i'm phone, i'm assigned to china problem and the other stuff i realize are some of the techniques that are new and physics are going to pride to climate change. and i guess this had some impact. yeah. it from that on so i can tell it's too complicated to be able to explain in a short interview when you are doing your famous papers in the sixty's. it wasn't long afterwards. i mean, because in to the 70 the cia wrote that man made climate change in the paper. in 9074 is called a study of climate loading logical research. as it pertains to intelligence problems. they said primatologist don't recognize what the cia knows. that it began in 1960, we're pretty in the era of drought, simon,

and political unrest. how did the cia have the data? it was a, using your work, good to know what you knew about man made climate change. i didn't have matching to act or during hours or acting or in that direction, but you know, i shifted by counter search as a climate scientist, my youngest, on the physics of coverage. i was really happy that i had many co workers that were very good in tracking with public and, and it's warming the public that we have a problem. so i can send back or to written science. so i was already quite fortunate. vidarres embedded in a good scientific community that was also very good at communicating with the public. so i could sit back and do my science. i'm the net interaction, little public, we're taking a little boy on my car to your site. would you go to you hunter? i'm right now because, you know, we talk on this program about how we don't really know the impact on climate change

of the u. s. military budget, the pentagon budget, it's all secret. how much are they contribute to fossil fuel emissions? your work on the 991, a persian gulf war, they were trying to work out when the burning of the co 8 oil fields in terms of fluid dynamics. what impact did that have on carbon dioxide emissions? here's what i want to pay, but i, tom remember, pointing out the impact of scurrying new oil sales and so forth. and just to point out that it was in interaction between the source of actions and, and climate. british almost already of all, very much not work. i wrote, i wrote a claims in wasn't actually significant, as it turned out in, in that paper at all. um, i suppose the while you been doing all of this work, you know that there been fossil fuel companies, rubbishing your research, and the research of others. what was it like doing all that work on stochastic

modeling, knowing that it's called a global climate coalition, sponsored by x on chevron and others were trying to make out the your research was nonsense. one, always some interesting companies that wanted to try to deny the fact that we're having time at change, but i never had a strong impact on the, on the publish. so if you're interested to people, they're trying to support that idea. but it never came really across in the public, so i didn't really have any problem or them. yeah. but apparently they had some scientists who would appear on t v saying things like, no, no, this is wrong. they don't have the data. it's not true. yes, but know you took them seriously, you know, maybe the media has all and they on the so the problem, my name track, interacting with scientists for so it's, it's very difficult to influence the public. so how to try to deny the fact that

we're having a problem who was ages and groups and trying to but, and we don't have a problem, was that we didn't get across in the topic. well, as you say, i mean it's up, some people would say, belatedly, they understand it. how do you think politicians are responding to the implications of your such today? and especially i had called 26. i think the politicians have difficulty responding to long term problems. there are several decades they used to respond to in problems from one you to the next to maybe the next election. but the idea that they have longer term problem to, to attack and respond to this way to go to your get opposed to partition. so it's much easier to speech in the public ashley and then to actually partition because they're more used to trying to get a more short term response for the public for it or they're doing. i'm the great, great a different is bringing it on some policy or problems that we have across to the

public. but it also some they're trying to do this but assist over it. so very difficult and can we, is your work to quantify that? well, in terms of evaluation, the impact of attempts my governments to limit climate change. i think bruce cc sean point out, that we had a problem and they should be doing something. we didn't really and i assume much what was being down. and because ashley was not very much ben gunn, regardless or simply as a saying before, they're not used to looking or responding to long term problems. and although they casually, you find articles, newspapers, and so forth. this is really no ongoing long term discussion in the reading will remain on these really don't temp of is i think where the, the 1st time that is came up into more general discussion in the policies. i think 2000 people that they found ways of expressing things that with all the scientists

when i would bring across to well. so we're very happy that the younger generation you realize, member problem and not being very effective in trying to get this or bring news across to the public. and dad, as you know, many of them are not happy with the 1.5 degrees centigrade level in the paris agreement. i mean, what d i'm, i don't know whether i can just plug a number into one of your formula to work out whether the species will be okay or not. is what do you think of the paras climate agreement in the 1.5 degrees centigrade? yeah, we do have such a such conferences and was hospice is 1.5 centigrade enough in terms of a target. i think that's not the right question. i mean it's, it's the order of magnitude. you're talking about between 1.2 and 1.8 degrees as i forth with this 1.5. it's just a nice around number is the order of magnitude yet we have to strive for and the impact that we'll have on the calling there's

a whole or to get some idea of how this interaction between this goals of commer change and the actual, the economic policies that we pursue, i think the issue kind of feeling a understanding of the relation between courts are short, so critical decisions and, and, and investments and so forth. and the long term impact on the in the additions is something which i think we're not, we're to bring a truck or to cross properly to the new demand yet. so i swap one of the problems that we have as a scientist, to try to get people's aware of it. almost some impacts is what they're doing on the common change or timescale. obviously, countries like china would say they've always been looking at it long term, but i suppose i've got to ask you really since it is

a century since einstein got the same award. what did you think? how did you find out that he won the nobel prize along with your to go in a speaker, man, i'll be in georgia for easy. i think i was sitting at the radio and then somebody called and said, you know, i saw something. i said no joke, they're really good. no, well that's not something to happen to chime overnight and i wasn't expecting it. i mean, are you talking about the importance of a lot, many other people. so sometimes that are not news to ashley response to the meeting and a public trip to this problem. and i was quite surprised with what this happened. and do you think your next, i don't know what you're working on right now. maybe on trying to find out whether it will rain in 10 days time. was that just too complicated a problem? nasa too complicated problem. so now on my basic idea was also

to, to evolution with a basic idea physics and have a new way of looking physics and particles and so forth. but nobody takes me very seriously unfortunately. so i have to work except that well, as you said, the young people of this world do your hopes for cop 26. will you be monitoring it or will you be working on equations and the car? 26. i'm not sure i wasn't really all very much less this conference in glasgow here about where world leaders are supposed to come in and use your equations and turn them into policy. well, i'm very happy when people use my equations and use my arguments, but i, i'm not really a partial type. so i, i'm not, i don't find the right ways to bring it across to the policy makers. i'm very happy with other people. i use all pick these up and, and try to make it more public proposal and thank you. thank you. thank you.

congratulations. after the break leveling up or record levels of inequality up to the u. k. prime minister as well that got to 6000000 made reveal dodgy dealings and corruption allegations against the global elite. does this represent another crisis for capitalism? all of them all coming up about 2 of going undergrad. blue yeah. ah, [000:00:00;00] ah,

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i use banks and i tell people lending against entrepreneurs necessarily, they only want to lend against real estates and regulation. so this is created the biggest real estate bubble in history. that's now collapsing. welcome back. the estimated corona virus dep fuel in the usa is equivalent to more than 3000000 killed in china is a proportion of population comparable to the death toll in mao's cultural revolution. will you k p. m boris johnson. slashing welfare for the poorest this week named checked italian economist and eligible because for fascism feel free to parade to said democracy was an illusion. joining me now from new york is economist professor franko milon of it, ship bank. thanks so much for coming. on the parade to british prime to see it was talking about how should that be a good good thing that he was talking about for

a jo. i know you've been writing about how inequality is taking center stage in your liberal economies from washington to well, to, to european capitals. well, the actually say brains are excited, right? i have to say actually comes for me at a very interesting time because i was just writing a check or a place. i've got to say controversial figure politically because i considered him as a precursor to fascism which i don't think it's true actually. you know, i think 23 exactly when it came to power, it became a point. it was so they need to be a senator, but basically he died within a couple of months and really was never involved. but he was a conservative economist. he believed in a growth is crucial that actually poverty cannot be eliminated except for growth. and i mean, ironically, brenda was also a person who was the 1st started to, i mean the quality using the fiscal data. so he was actually nichol. i missed the

started inequality quite a lot, but believe that you could not change. so after that, boris johnson would arguably use such a figure. conservative thinker off to rule, but on so might say that he was a civil tenuously cutting a 20 pound payment to the 6000000 poorest people in this country that some say will really do 800000 people falling below the poverty line. i think you been writing recently that the? well, they're pretty me, ologist is obviously a blame for coven deaths, for not reacting properly. i mean, that's their field. the politicians and the leads don't seem to be accountable for rising inequality. i do think that we were all, all profession someplace the effects of 1st of all, i mean, you mentioned that to me ologist. they were as we know wrong, you know,

from the beginning to the end. and actually the virus has been playing games with that because whenever they think, actually they have been in control, things would change the protection of the vaccines where it has been amazingly fast . so that was really, really bright on, on the other hand, also for the economy, it was a very difficult barrier because when we do projections, we do projections, assuming that basically we are in control of the virus. but we have seen these projections have changed over the last 2 years and almost depending on what countries were doing well, you know, in the beginning, then in the middle of then now, and this countries have all for switch position repeatedly wrong. i mean, you are in the world bank, so you know how wrong the world bank was, were developing countries as regards growth and macroeconomic policy. you can't blame them too much. you know, the point way projections is all if they don't pay them very seriously because

their projections are always projects are based on the current knowledge and the assumption that there will be no dramatic a significant changes in the future. and we know actually dramatic and really unexpected, and you're seeing graphic events happen. and when they happen to like to call it happen, all the projections start off. so if you were to look at the, i'm there for the world bank, projections, 1019. it's not surprising that actually they were off they, they couldn't do it. the problem with projections, if, really, if you're wrong and nothing spectacular has happened over that period, and i think your problem, well, babs, most dramatic from you has been something you said about china. i mean, china obviously targeting inequality we had from a guest only the other day. who is saying say, the shortages of certain types of energy is government ordained because of the

climate catastrophe. the government is really targeting now the inequality that is increased as the chinese miracle has continued. why compare the many deaths of miles cultural revolution with the new liberal responds to cove it in say the united states. well, you know, we can compare because that from one they ran to another event with all the sort of the friends say plus young guy day like carefully. you know, the us that still is enormous and absolutely it was something that nobody could have expected. i mention very often that i did it over 2019 by the johns hopkins university and the economy intelligence unit. that actually would the u. s. s. number one or preparedness to face the economist? i mean, let's face it, we, we were going to see our youtube video, but the economist, historically, even the intelligence unit. and we knew that they don't have a universal health care system. that health system is completely inefficient

because it spends the us taxpayer spends way more on health care and they don't get the provision showing me what to expect us to be hit was my bad demick. obviously. you know, it seems obvious, but it didn't seem obvious that and we, i think we're definitely surprised by the extent when it was recent compared to the u. s. b during the civil war and vietnam war and so on. so you can, as i said, you can compare it to the culture of the lucian, which of course, that adjustment for the population size. and if you would go, there is no doubt about that. and i think lots of would be a bit about that. especially the fact that the crisis is not over. so we are really at some point we don't know if we have 2 thirds of the best or maybe 60 percent or maybe one ha. so it is absolutely still or no, but it is a huge number because in the propaganda context of this,

if china has done loads of crony contracts from profit driven corporations acted as new liberal, you states, you think that subsequent debt, dual china in western media, would be accused of genocide. well, you know, if i mean the corresponding number for china, you know, 700000 debt into us would have been like 3000000. so i believe that kind of a $3000000.00 would have been mentioned very many times in as fascinating the, you do say the post pandemic, liberal labor market look set to be creating a globalization that will now hit the middle class as we've seen. how well, i mean it has the bailout, the middle class is to an extent, but historically, since the seventy's neoliberalism. is it obviously blue color working classes? well, i think i actually got a playstation that we can become aware of very much is the

ability to work remotely. which means that physically obviously don't have to be at your place at work. now that means greater possibilities for people in the less developed countries replace people in the rich and base because, you know, a certain number of jobs can easily from, you know, tile and, or allows. and not i want to know new york and the new employees are cheaper. i think they would take the position of dose from the reach bank. so i would actually see those things here on the one which is actually good or last develop the labor market. there but the negative one for the rich because it further substitute the middle class that jobs are labor from from the country and our labor. ready i mean, what is the state of the bubble for economist at the moment? i mean,

i noticed the pandora papers released this month. no us politicians were in it. and i know that you've commented on the fact that it is. it is axiomatic amongst weston journalists. say they didn't nation joined us, that capitalism and democracy are associated new cause some doubt to them that well, i think that actually, historically, that was not true. so, you know, one doesn't need to spend too much time because you can kind of a separate place for the last century. and most of them, i mean, i will start, i mean, not just example, fascist, and it's only but to america. you even take united states that was actually a slave owning entry until 865 and it was and, and even you can take britain, which very limited french it written with. the french is 8 percent of the population. there's a democracy today. so, you know, i don't even later in the us for votes for people who are up still,

but they're going to be late, 65. and then i mean one cannot even until 9 to 65 and moment for the right to vote. but so actually if you just look at a number of country years, different police and democracies, i think that number is relatively small. it's probably like 20 percent. now of course, corporations that fund up all additions. all talking about climate change, just as the activists are, all of a sudden was the money to be made as has been described by the green. you deal the bull additions as well as those on the right. do you think it's possible for the growth, obsessed, new liberal nations at all cost to fully comprehend them to enact policies that will stop the annihilation of the human species?

you know, i have a little bit of a different opinion there because i very much for growth because i believe the only solution to world geography really. now the issue in rich countries is that politically it's fine, impossible to implement all the it would seriously deal with climate change in the re. well, and the example that i really like it was which i think the writing example is normally not only didn't always a huge producer of what i did is now increasing exploration in the arctic. and on top of that, that policy supported by majority of the population of norway. and it normally is a country that is quite aware of climate change is the richest country in the world . so the question that they ask myself, and actually i wrote about that. i said, you know, many people are fighting for, i mean, guess i'm a change. if you cannot convince people in the rich,

no way to reduce their income in production, that's how you're going to convince brazil or rag or nigeria with the incomes which are one 5th of not. so i think this is the fundamental political issue that they really don't know how to deal with. i just finally is 27 years today. john nash won the nobel prize for his work on game theory. why do you think the game theory is useful in the current crisis as, as on the one side we hear of a get on, on the other we hear of optimistic signs that washington bay gene are obsessed by inequality. well, i think it is very, i mean us will actually as you know, it was actually invented into 19 for a long time for norman and morgan stanley and sort of where the founders. and it gives me useful in economics, in many sense, when, particularly when you have limited competition so that each monopoly or a monopoly oracle is technically we is actually taking into account the action of the other side. and it was quite a lot of a political science,

it's precisely in the, on the topics that you mentioned when you had 2 superpowers in the past, the, your star and the u. s. for us and china. so it does, i think actually that's kind of applications are very mundane or didn't a real life to actually survival. the species promote the brand going on of it. thank you. thank you very much. it was a pleasure talking to you that's over the shout will be back on wednesday, 51 years to the day of the f. b. i's arrest of activist angela davis. cold, a dangerous terrorist by president nixon. you can watch our interview on going underground, allow you to our channel until then keep in touch with our social media and let us know whether you think the chinese economic model, good fight inequality, nato nations. ah

ah, what else was the most basic book that i see you back please go. he did. who bought? i bought a dial tomorrow. a couple of pretty than, you know, quite but i know from politicians to athletes and movies does to musicals, does it seems every big name in the world has been here? let's see, or hope of ms. euclid corpus christi school. oh, what do i see? a button when you get the calls that i need to remove what does not give me a glory you spoke with? said basil makes dreams come true that every one who falls in love with people. like what me.

when i see black manager, i see of myself. when i was growing, young, black americans spoke to me with what australia did not have to say black marsh magic is a movement. we are importing from america. no, nothing of who we are. i lived in a world where white lives mattered. and i was not was like ms. newman and i wasn't new from black america. i learned to speak back to why a bridge or people of iraq more every day. we are out wanted system. now with the police were out with she states, i'm scared that more children are going to grow up in the country that think says no racism, but they're more likely to end up in the criminal justice system. then there are other fellow friends in daycare again,

the nobel peace prize misses the mark the most deserving are again passed over. also the use war against cubits member states hungry in poland. ideological germany is demanded. descent not allow these people learn from their own experience. how vulnerable of business is to the bank. so he pushed my business over the age, pushes me right to the edge, bankruptcy. now i realize we were good. this isn't just the back that may be involved in this is the concept. see, firms is, is the lawyers, these people have got you want other stories at a walk whistleblower. tell people's marriages have broken up. lost their family homes. it is spectacularly devastating for people's lives. they have committed suicide,

but left behind norwich. they explicitly state that it was the constant intimidation and billing by buying coffee sauce. that late don't to, i took the spear, it's obscene. these people up, nor saw 13 . ah, ah, plains the priestess shouldn't report sex crimes against children. if that revealed during confession get the top french bishops summoned by the interior minister, we speak to a victim of child sexual abuse by the clergy. no full blown intellect does. childhood trauma is engraved in my memory. very precise details. one cannot commit crimes and simply say, i am ashamed of the crimes that have committed domestic terrorists parents in the u . s. a branded that an face