either alex speaks to professor wade davis the fest away davis. welcome back to the alex ivan. chill. thanks very much, alex. wonderful to be with you again. i went, went there last year, a very famous rolling stolen article. you looked at the trump ascendancy and the unsettled corona vibe as a signaling the, the end of the american century have you had cause to revise that pin? well, yes, yes. and no alex is, you know, you write something like that and very much, i think that came out in august of 2020. when you know all of us for trying to answer this question, you know, what is this coded thing? what does it mean? what does it imply, you know, since and i have very much to revise some of my thoughts in that piece. and at the time i was no happy anticipation, you know, protected the ascendancy of china and in the wake of the passing of the american century. but it is a wonderful t shirt going on, a going around over here,

that sort of reads on it. you know, shiny, gave us cove in america, gave us vaccines, or the west gave us vaccines. and there's some real real truth to that, you know, whatever the actual genesis of the pathogen was, did it come from an animal market? did it as some people increasingly believe it slipped out of the biology center in the city of origin. whatever the case may be, american and european and western scientific ingenuity, the legacy of allopathic medicine, perhaps our greatest gift to the world really came to the for just think about it until this event of cove. it just the faster development of any vaccine in the history of medicine had been for. ready years for months, and that was the data that i had at the time i wrote that piece. well, you can imagine alex if these various variance had arrived with their increased levels of transmission and infection. and we had not had any vaccines up until now,

and we still didn't have them looking at. and 2 more years, you can only imagine the levels of mortality. so i think we should all be extraordinarily proud and grateful of the scientific community for having come to the for as a did. that's certainly something that i, i did not anticipate when i, when i wrote that piece. but that said, i think the underline issues in that piece and the polarization of american society, the, the ascendancy of a kind of a social world. where if i believe that it's true, the kind of democratization of opinion we really haven't seen, even in the wake of biden's, very narrow electoral victory. any really signs of that that's going away in america. let's always remember those of us who may be breathing more easily in the wake of jo biden's presidency. because no matter what you think about him, everybody knows he's a decent guy. he's an honest guy, he's, he's

a man who's gone through pain. he's an, he's someone who really does feel the pain of others because he's, he's been in that place himself. but that said, no. trump selection, there was only 44000 votes, 44000 swing votes, and 3 states would have given us back donald trump. and remember that he campaigned directly pandering to his base at all times. in other words, his advisors were telling him, you know, people like your policies, they hate you back off, you'll, when the suburban women's vote, you'll go back to white house. had he done that? it's not inconceivable that that would have been true. but in fact, he stubbornly continued to feed red meat to his base cuz that's what he liked to do . that's what he was in, you know, his inclination was to do. and even having done that and having alienated so many people by his rhetoric, his behavior is vulgarity. his mug, his from paucity, he still very narrowly was a defeated. and that's

a little bit haunting. and we've seen the residue of that polarization and what i can only consider to be the insane vaccine wars of the last 12 months or so in the united states. you know, i alex, when i was a little boy, i don't know if you remember this. do you remember those photographs of the iron lawns and hospitals, you know, in life magazine over here in america? but you know, i think i'm claustrophobic to this day because those images of those are wards and hospitals of the iron lung of polio victims in the 1950s. and i just find it inconceivable that the level of sort of misinformation, the level of frankly pure selfishness of those who don't understand anything that could be me. ology and of no appreciation that their decision to not take a vaccine is no different than their decision to ignore a red light at a traffic stop by amazon. often even modern fasting, perhaps,

as the fact of president trump, when stricken himself, was quite willing to embrace novel therapeutic techniques was i use the same technology as the vaccine. and of course, which at the time are not available to the ordinary american family who, who was suffering. but went davis when president biden, as you say, a general acknowledged as a, a thoroughly decent human being, but also a great, thick southern times of american politics. but even with has change of direction at the death rate in america from coven, despite all of the scientific breakthrough, is still running over $10000.00 a week. so why us, president biden been unable to do what they've done in china was just to get left deaf written down to virtually nothing. well, i mean, obviously the difference, ford in democratic society in store terry, in totality in society. i mean, in china, where the surveillance state, where individuals have

a social capital that is measured by their obedience to the state. and if you don't meet the grade, you cannot get on a train. you cannot take a flight, you can't, in some cases, even own a pet. and so you're talking about a totalitarian state, which doesn't, doesn't blush before the world is puts over a 1000000 acres and concentration camps. so, you know, of course biden's had to struggle, but he's struggling with the residue of the polarization of trump. you know, you still have a situation the haunting thing. as you mentioned, alex biden had a reputation in the senate for concilium. it's for partnership for working across the aisle and, and in the o'bonham administration. and before he had worked in the clinton administration with mcconnell very, very effectively on a number of pieces of legislation. mcconnell is put up the signal that the republican party will remain recalcitrant as they did under obama. they will simply focus their attention on, on limit any,

any achievements of the biden administration. you know that the republicans in congress have not mellowed all look, consider the fact that lynn cheney, of all people, has been utterly ostracized from the party simply for having the audacity to suggest that the electoral counts were actually accurate. that american democracy worked, as we know absolutely, that it did. but this hasn't in any way mollified. the trump majority, which can he, you know, it's quite shocking. you would have thought that with the criminal investigations, with the light of distance in the, in the wake of the new presidency, with a new hope from the world, the approbation of the world to the election of joe biden. that somehow trump might have just lost his grip on the republican party in some slight way. the shocking thing alex is he is not all the polls suggest the opposite. every single person running for office or in office in the congress,

remains completely intimidated by the spectre of trump turning on them. this is unprecedented in american history, where a president voted out of office would be able to maintain such control over his party. consider by contrast, the fate of jimmy carter in the wake of the reagan victory in 1980. i mean, carter was gone with the wind, as i say, you know, i think that the danger for america and the world is that joe biden is an old man. and whether he will even be able to run again in 2024. and then who will be in his place if he does not. and it's not clear, the democrats have anyone lined up. and we're only talking, you know, how quickly is american electoral cycles roll over? you know, they'll be running for the primaries before you know it. i thomas perpetual campaigning, perpetual fundraising, the american political system. and it's not clear to me that on the democrats have

anyone in the wings who can take on what appears to be this ongoing trump juggernaut. and that is a very haunting thing. you know, you know, it's a funny thing alex, i, i, you know, i married an american woman, i'm canadian and her father was a senator and almost u. s. president at one point. so i sort of dropped as an adult into the world of washington power. you know, i, i used to play tennis with robert mcnamara, the architect of vietnam when he was still physically fit, but obviously, emotionally and mentally, a crushed man in the wake of his disappointments used to sit around with dick cheney him and talk about the civil war at cocktail parties, my point is not to drop names, but, but when i went into that scene, i thought there must be some kind of center of power in washington. and the more i learned, the more i realize that, that there really is no, they're there. and that, that the power structure is just these individuals who sort of fall into it in some

kind of serendipitous, ambitious way. and, and their decisions can have such profound consequences for the rest of us. i mean, think about 911 for example. you know, the most successful, a symmetrical episode of warfare since the trojan course, you know, for the cost of less than $1.00 scanning machine in one airport in anywhere in the u. k. that handful of, of, of, of fanatics. and you know, brought death to 2800 americans. and let's always remember who we are. we lost 6000 boys at at normandy beaches. you know, we, we lost 23000 bed and one afternoon at at tatum creek in the civil war. you know, we, we walked across the continent to settle it, you know, we're bigger than this. we're not gonna let this put us off our game. but it did. and we rushed into afghanistan. we rushed into iraq. and now, you know, 20 years later. ready you know,

trillions of dollars expended during years where and where china and never went to war. america never was at peace every 3 years. rather, the chinese would talk more concrete building up their infrastructure than america did in the 20th century. all that is your, all, that blood actually wasted and again, back to joe biden, whether he likes it or not. the debacle of cobble happened on his watch vessel davis. that's precisely what we're going to look at in the 2nd half of the show, the chaotic retreat from kabul. and what that tells us about american reach. what old white with these people learn from their own experience, how vulnerable of business is to the bank. so he pushes my business over, the age, pushes me right to the edge, bankruptcy. now i realize we will go, this isn't just the back that may be involved in this is the concept. see,

funds is, is the lawyers. these people have got want on their stories and walk. can a whistle blower tell people's marriages have broken up, lost their family homes, it is spectacularly devastating for people's lives. we have committed suicide, but left behind, nor the explicitly state that it was the constant intimidation and billing by bank officers that late them to i took the spear, it's obscene, these people up, nor saw. welcome back. alex's in conversation with world famous anthropologist, professor a davis on whether america is back under by went davis,

the chaotic seasons, the cabal, airport, a and the bloody ending to what has been a 20 of conflict rocked joe biden in the polls. but as that a case that taking that the session is going to put in better estate for the, for the times to come, the session was going to have to be made. i think that's a very good point. and that's the way that the president tried to present it to the american people. and obviously somebody had to pull the plug on that on that the, that, that war couldn't go on forever. i'd say, on the other hand, you know, the famous, sane by harry truman, the buck stops here and whether he likes it or not. those images from kabul, like the image is $975.00 in saigon, which incidentally, it was interesting how the administration immediately went to those images with this incredible. and you know me think some and protest is too much refusal to draw

any kind of parallels to what happened in saigon in 1975. but any one of the eyes to see could see on the video cameras. and i mean on the, on the television monitor that it was exactly like saigon in 1975. i mean, it was utterly parallel. you know, we, we left in 1975 nixon having spent billions of dollars to, to arm the south vietnamese. army was called the via the victimization of the american vietnam war. whole idea that nixon's can, you know, strategy was to get the american boys out of the coffins and back home. and, and we could, we could just use money and power and arms to equip an army that in the end had no will whatsoever to fight. and had had just rampant corruption from the level of the field up into the presidential palace will surely that's exactly what we saw in afghanistan. and you know, this is the, the lesson and to lessen the alex that does go back to 911. what's the single most

important strategic lesson to derive from that attack in the world towers? it's simply this, it's a power in this interconnected asymmetric world. no longer guarantees security. you can have the most powerful army in the world and then suddenly a bunch of kind of misfits with the equivalent of an exacto knife, you know, as, as the most are for weapon spending less money on their entire operation. and then is the cost of one of the machines we had to put into airports to screen baggage. i mean, the whole operation cost $500000.00 to, i'll try and yet with that they, they stand and embarrassed and brought pain and death to the most powerful military force in the world. so, american may maintain a military apparatus that is larger than the 17 other nations put together. all that, that statistic is fading with the ascendency of china, obviously,

but it still doesn't translate into security. so the question is, what does and in, in a piece that came out right after $911.00, that was printed all around the world with the noted exception of anywhere in the united states. i wrote that the lesson of 911 was just that and that we had to somehow come to terms with the interconnectedness of the world. you know, we somehow had to kind of generate and it may sound naive, but some kind of global sense of interdependence. because one of the problems of 911 and this is of the circumstances, 911 and white shocked american so much why they were asking, why do they hate us? america in all of its power was so remarkably cut off from the world. i mean, at the time of 91125 percent of congressmen had no passports. the president himself had rarely left the country save to visit his father and beijing, when his dad was the ambassador there, you know you had

a country. absolutely insulated, in wealth, at the time of $911.00 american spent more money maintaining their lawns than the country of india collected in total and federal tax revenues went davis said george w bush once complained to me in the white house that the american past said never been out of the country when he'd been to scotland 12 times, so pops up, all the racing and saladas tail slee american pestilence. well, i think, i think george, me, maybe it was. i george w bush did it was yes. well i maybe, maybe he'd travel more than i thought, but the point is the point is that america, you know, it was remarkably insular. so when president bible couldn't remember the, the name of the estallion prime minister, he was citing and defense pike with he was just being like a, an adventure american average. joe was a. no, that's not fair. i mean, i mean,

i let me, don't get me wrong. all joking aside, i mean, you know, you have incredible intellectual capacity within, within the u. s. apparatus, of course you do and, and you know, the fact and biden forgets the name, this is it who wouldn't, for god's sake. i mean, i mean, i me inviting that and forgetting a name and a cocktail party, we can hardly hold someone accountable for that. i, i'm amazed. they can remember what they do. remember more than a testing feature of that. let's defense pipe. they let me get this fight the all cus, pacific asia pacific pacific basin submarine pat, which so upset the french a but america has more ballistic on hunter, killer nuclear submarines than the rest of the planet, combined of garbage 70 admin, china sex. so it isn't an extraordinary situation where you have to have that defense packed, to give security. when already america has preeminence settling weaponry,

if milton, all areas of, of life china remains this incredible mystery doesn't that? i mean it's, it's banking systems opaque, it's political systems opaque, its capacity for what ruthless actions is transparent, whether it's a treatment of the, of ethnicities or hostage diplomacy in the case of and, you know, the only recently were these 2 canadians brought home who had been simply, you know, snagged in what amounted to political kidnapping, simply because of the canadian threat to extradite the woman who was i forget the name of the company now, but you know, that was, was what the americans wanted her for, for various charges. right. and so she's been living in a mansion in vancouver for months. while these 2 canadians, who are snagged by the chinese, have been in solitary confinement treated like you know, like criminals. and so china, in a china is, is capable of so much,

we just don't know what's going on there. i mean, look at this, look at this claps or imminent claps of this large development company. i mean, the idea that a, that a building company, a construction company, even a construction empire would have $300000000000.00 of debt to deal with the fact the 25 percent of the apartments in china are empty simply because, you know, construction is way the economy has been greased and when a bank fails, they're not allowed to fail this simply absorbed by the government. so i think, i think it, it's one of these things when i and i'm obviously know china expert. but i think alex anyway, we think about it, you really don't know where the china is a paper tiger or is it the ascendant power of the new era? therefore, a professor davis, i'm going to push it out. this thesis, the end of the matter conceptually. the multiple problems, the setting that the company,

the comp plan presidency and all the cables and sued has sa, joe biden managed, at least to arrest the decline in your eyes. a or perhaps can it be the vast as china really paper tiger bullets that essentially see america reimagine as indeed it has a rebuff before a what do you think as at the end of the beginning on as a, something different about math exam thing, of course that you deal incentive to this not moment? well, well, i mean, no one would look no one i think with, with an open heart to liberty would ever look forward to the demise or the end of the american century. if it implied the ascendancy of the sentry of china simply because of how we know the chinese communist party treats its own citizens. we know how it aggregates its promises in terms of treaties and promises to place like hong kong. when we know how it maintains

a surveil and state that is unlike anything its ever been undone and, and, and the technology is only allowing that surveillance day to be even more ubiquitous and more controlling the way it's treating the various ethnicities. the movers in particular, you know, establishing shamelessly i would only be described as concentration camps as a, engaging and active beth, no side against their own people. the ongoing shut down and locked down into bet. where, where people have no access to any information. save that, which is on fed them by the communist party. and this is a truly totalitarian state. where for lots of reasons, given its history, the people i have chosen stability as opposed to personal freedom, you know, and perhaps the freedom to acquire money. but at the expense of any kind of personal freedom in terms of politics or even the artistic expression. so,

you know, if, if china is ascendant as presently configured with the complete control of the chinese communist party, i think that it is something that is not a world that i, i want to dwell on. you want to throw that to the last 2nd little was a combination of american military might and russian blood which saved the world from darkness. where should we look for, for hope in this view essentially? well, i think, you know, my, my, my hope is that shine in particular and will be able to break out of the hammer hold of the chinese communist party without it inclined and a complete chaotic breakdown of the society. i don't know if that can happen or not, but i certainly that would be on the political scene what you would, would,

would hope for. i think the other, the other thing obviously is climate change. i mean, if you know, if, if we, if, and, you know, if and when we actually begin to understand alex the obvious, that we're, that we're living on, on a biological planet. i mean, this is one of the lessons of covey that i think i kind of skip past this in a rather lamentable away. and at the same time, because it shut down the global economy, at least momentarily. we suddenly saw the resilience of the earth, a difficulty of the earth. remember those images of, of wild boar in the streets of barcelona, the canals of venice. clear rivers in columbia, running like trout streams through cities like maybe even, you know, came on blackening the beaches of baja, the cities of karachi and delhi been able to look north and see the heights of the mountains, snow cap score in the sky. we suddenly saw 2 things,

we saw the ability of the earth to rebound in a natural way. but inversely we saw by definition, the consequences of our foot print upon the earth. what we've been doing to it as we consume the ancient sunlight of the world for the last 300 years. and so this is coming right at a moment when in a way the world is speaking to us, you know, the, the, the cataclysmic hurricanes, the endless wildfires and, and again, when we, when we think of climate change, it's very import to distinguish whether from climate you know whether is what happens to us on a daily basis, a yearly basis. perhaps climate represents a long term trends of, of weather events if you will, or, and if the world can get his act together and think collectively about that. if we continue, you know, our petty conflicts in the little corners of the world,

while this world of ours kind of slips away, you know, a way that will be the, the most desperate fate for humanity. profess away davis. fascinating, extraordinary. thank you so much for joining me once again on the alex. ivan show. thanks, alex. so much wonderful to be with you again. as an anthropologist where davis deals in time scales much longer than a lecture cycles, he deals in eat us. the end of the american eat out will not be a rapid process. well then, pass often take centuries to decline and fall. we've davis more in the passing of the american fancy for all his manifest both. it might be better for the world than his potential replacement. however, the underlying divisions and american society sort into sharp relief by the trump presidency. i'm not going away any time soon. neither partly is

a donald sincere of mine from touch i. he still has that ready audience and is now odds on to seek and to win the republican nomination, and stands as a 2nd favorite after biden. to be the next president of the united states senate by this more enthusiastic supporters have likened him to franklin d. roosevelt his 1st time in 1930 c, laid the foundations for the u. s. welfare state and slave, the specter of american fascism. it's certainly hard to find a more abrupt presidential shift, dan from trump, to biden. however, whether the president has the stamina, political and personal to see this remains to be seen. but for now, for myself and alex and all it is sure it's good bye stacy's. i'm hope to see you all again. next to me. ah

ah, max, i just, i thought survival guy would go through go by, you reduce the price, then l reduce the lower that's under cutting, but what's good for food market is not good for the global academy. we're looking at yahoo ocean with on what it was. i middle august, also a 1000000000 slogan, noise in the middle. so with fresh, with the alarm,

who did they got that because it's not something you would prevent them with a wound up that's meant percent there was your properties was for what fin the bottom with the filled with the what like you like with nice seems them off them when he's got though, why when law coding, so we'll do some post apocalyptic. come from from the news, what kind of what the theme i was, let me use this global olga slave to me as i will continue to 11 little scared little squiggly with john thought of it, but are one, why do you think that us them i mean on i besides in that we still live die. oh

ah, were headline stories this our police in norway say the bow and arrow rampaged that kill 5 in kong. berg appears to be a terrorist attack outing that they suspect had previously converted to islam and was on their radar over signs of rabbit kelly's ation. also ahead with another big story of the day, at least 6 people are reportedly killed and 60 others wounded after gunman opened fire and bay roots out, a protest against the judge leading the probe into the deadly port bloss their last year. damned if they do damned if the don't fuss. trillion police bear

the brunt of public anger at govern.