[000:00:00;00] ah mm i'm african resents here we're going undergrad coming up with the show is the issue of war crimes. black or white has newcastle f. c follows the british government and cozying up to saudi arabia. we speak to a barrister who wants to read card. saudi arabia, which you k p m boss, johnson enables arm sales to bomb yemen. site of the world's worst humanitarian crisis. and the scandal threatens the future of the taxpayer funded british crown ahead of a hearing in the sexual abuse case against prince andrew who denies everything. we ask best selling biog hallowani about the traitor king fascism. and if the royal family has always been damaged, good,

all of them all coming up in today's going underground are 1st to the world's worst humanitarian crisis. fueled by british weapons as bars. johnson's u. k. foreign secretary liz trust returns to britain from arms, customer, saudi arabia, and join. now from the hague, by human rights. le toby cabman, co founder of guernica. 37. be thanks so much for coming on. so as i say list, trust is go back. now, you're raining on boards, johnson's a parade. i'll ask you about 2 specific, legible crabs in a minute. but what exactly have you filed with the british police? so this is an investigation that we've been working on for the best last months. we've been looking at various different instance as part of the saudi coalition attacks in yemen. we had detailed a number of attacks both in the same and in the north sea, 2 different categories of crime. so north, we're talking primarily about

a bombardment, indiscriminate shilling of civilian areas targeting civilians and, and in the say, the use of mercenaries through an american company and a you a proxy to, to carry a tactical solutions run secret prisons and torture and execute civilians. so it is that's a sort of snapshot summary of what the obligations concern and what we, what we've done is we've named a number of senior military and political leaders from both salary and the way the reason why we targeted them. because this follows on from a finding we made just over a month ago with intellectual criminal court, which is then alleging the involvement of other members of the solution. united kingdom, as you rightly pointed out, providing the weapons to which these crimes have been carried a but so we have followed with criminal court as well against those persons who are

citizens of countries who are members of the i c, c. but obviously though, i mean, as you're just 1st out, the you, either, you're a van britain over the deny, any of indiscriminate bullying of children and crimes against humanity. the i, c. c. one doomed to failure because of these are you able to, you know, members of the international criminal court, i mean, even the united states as an innovative usa is one of the biggest funded well, the, the point being made is that the cited coalition is made up the number of states far greater than, you know, our america insider review. the reason why we assume this in the kingdom is so that we go off to those to have the greatest responsibility. but there are of course, other contributing states such as jordan seneca and sudan who have provided support, whether it's with aircraft, whether it's on the ground or whether it is technical assistance to the saudi led

coalition. so was we are not assuming the case against morality officials or even american nationals and we can come on to that in a moment. in the i c. c. we are those other individuals who are members or citizens of member states. so no, it's not doing it and we expect the r c. c to open a proven preliminary examination into is, is sort of coming off the back of when the police were investigating pin a. shea attaches great from the dictator of chili, who was in the ca, who in 9073. but of course, british was released, but is the point that the metropolitan police might do something here in london too . okay, so this is obviously, it was not intended to come off the back of the 17 years.

but of course that is one of the legal financial bases for or the medical place to, to launch investigation. this is not the 1st case has been brought. there are cases have been brought in the past august. taylor as an example, was rushed to chart rescue to not successful unfortunately, but that was the question of the evidence, not question level jurisdiction. so we've also seen cases in germany and france around europe against syrian officials and birth other crimes being investigated on the universal jurisdiction so, so there is a legal basis or so ultimately it's more of a question of whether the evidence is strong enough. robin if there is actually an evidential or, or a legal barrier, of course, with this particular case the, the added difficulty are being political considerations. yeah. i mean, it's clearly a, some would say a political math, not a, not a judicial matter

a tool, but i mean, i'll get on to that. let me, let me respond to that. i think i've said this before. so crimes allegations are generally by that nature connected to political considerations. now, when i say there are political considerations in this case, this because in saudi officials are our major trading a united kingdom. so that will of course, be some attempt to influence or interfere with an independent investigation. and this will be a test for our north horseman and prosecuting authorities. and our team we would have in the global south are going to look at this. and since it is an international problem, i can walk in as a syrian citizen into court in damascus and say, i want to prosecute britain for i want to give birth johnson and to raise a may for war crimes for helping out either and isis in syria trying to overthrow

the government or go into baghdad court over the 2003 iraq war. i mean, you know what, what difference is a way? well, i think it would be better suited for cursor and his regime crunch mentor, concert. but that's, that's, that's another discussion of what i mean. a little deb damascus citizen would clearly go in and say they bought my country. well, if it, if, if syria has universal jurisdiction laws as part of the legal framework, then there's nothing that to prevent that reason it's, britons universal jurisdiction, or you're saying that it really all countries in many countries around the world and universal jurisdiction laws within, within the national laws, they differ from country to country. some countries require that to be a connection to, to that country in the u. k or jurisdiction in the whales. there's no requirement. the suspect is

a british national. there's no requirement that the victim is british. national one is no requirement or crimes were committed on british soil. the reason why we have universal jurisdiction laws that's not for, for any crew, but these are the most serious nature, those crimes that are recognized under international humanitarian law as the most egregious war, crimes, crimes against humanity, genocide, many countries around europe certainly have this in on a statute, but you can't file a case against a foreign national crimes committed outside of the jurisdiction. that is our responsibility to humanity. and that's something that our strongest of all i mean, your group is called gunning. going 9037 because only named after the painting by a lifelong communist. picasso, who hated western policies. and even de facto back the u. s. z. a invasion of czechoslovakia. i don't, i don't know. the boy,

a painting is significant because when he was in his studio in the notches and i looked in the painting and said, did you do this? and he said, no, you did. that's. we're cancelling the bombing of good britain was arming the fascists in spain at the time. i just on the specific 2 of these 20000 is of the attack among 20000 and strikes. a school bus. you say is a war crime, a bombing of a school bus and a funeral. there was a double cab strike on a funeral. so we have highlighted those $22.00 particular incidents. amongst many incidents, the sat there was a mistake, i think. well, there was investigation into it, nobody was held accountable. certainly that never actually issued any public filing response to that. but it was regrettable that it was a mistake that has no official investigation into those who are responsible for

giving that kerry carrying out that if the, if the case goes forward the perfectly within their rights and she should be within their rights to be able to to go into defense of says that it was a mistake. our evidence is that there was a strike. karen, at least 2 particular strikes, were carried out in which a large number of civilians are killed. of course, it will have to be down to where the evidence is drawn up to show those we say are responsible can be proven to be responsible. but that is the allegation to where make, you know, a former i x british foreign off his lawyer. molly mill rady, said the mars johnson allegedly joked about the saudi conflict with yemen. i think locking jerking about saturday conflict in yemen. unfortunately, i'm not able to. johnson is frequently made foolish remarks like that because it's seen as part of global britain. i mean,

couldn't the boy be made that the court and the police that you went to file the complaint with their paid for by taxes from britain's largest companies, including weapons. got british, aerospace is britain manufactured company. the you go to, you're going to police that are funded by the weapon fails. in terms of tax cost. again, we're talking about our institutions that are mandated by law to carry fractions independently and partially. and that is what we are, we are if that doesn't infuse to investigation, we can take it to the high court. we can judicially review the decision not open investigation. and if they are not open investigation because of political considerations, then the high court will rule accordingly. i mean, it's the 76 anniversary of un charter on it was on sunday the you and voted to a bullish committee, investigating illegible, grimes in yemen,

just ahead of the birthday. or even the un doesn't seem to be too interested in what you are. oh, i think you also got to look at the states that voted for that to be terminated. i think that speaks for itself, they were saudi arabia, the u. e, and states like that involved. so states that states are no regard. all right. and what date should we be looking, do we're, as this case proceeds in the, in the latest case, what should people be looking at? well, i think in a case such as this is very complex. there's a lot of material that police will have to consider. what the approach which is generally taken is that they go through what's called a scoping science. so a preliminary investigation to see whether the evidence is strong enough to take it to the next stage. they will have to be seeking bias of crime prosecutor as to when there's sufficient information to charge individuals. so i don't think anybody

should expect this to be decided overnight. boris johnson won't be charged just to be clear. analysts trust was condemned for breaking a court order in terms of weapons export to saudi arabia, which was only temporary bathrooms. he will not even reverse jones to be charge in this particular filing, no or less. russ, all 9, deciding not, not a toby government. beg you after the break, i had of next week's court hearing with implications for prince andrew. what about another scandal linking the royal family to nazis? all the smoke and we are about to have going on the ground. and it states, it has to be rash, to be able to afford any time and find the luxury that for sure. despite having the most expensive health care system in the world,

we have poor life expectancy. we have higher infant mortality. we have more deaths from treatable causes, so americans are suffering every day from it. it's as if these people don't count. i saw how you can choose your customers and dump the sick tone also right and satisfy their wall street investors. no parents should have to see what i saw if you're denying payment for someone's care, your make life and death decisions and determine to get to live and who dies to me this best getting away with murder with

ah, welcome back with the taxpayer from the british royal family embroiled in yet another scandal ahead of a hearing in the sexual abuse case against the queen's son, prince andrew. next week we now look at another scandal that was actually responsible for putting elizabeth the 2nd on the throne in 1952, a new book reveals the extent and cover up of fascism within the royal family. with me is andrew lounge, best selling biographer, an author of the new book, traitor, king, the scandalous exile of the duke and duchess of windsor address. thanks so much for coming back. go on the show. but i mean, accusing the queen's uncle of her being a traitor. worthy of execution, no comment from the palace and the book relatively little publicity for andrew lounge book. why? yes. well, i mean, it's interesting that, i mean, it's been reviewed a couple of books to tear last started and, and said a and was not really made my case. and i for other papers would police, but it's clearly a subject. they don't really want to touch. so all the paper says you say we're

fighting to survive. my last book have gone quite on it. why would, why would there's no, this is what they call dean, who does this is resolved. and then besides, it happened long ago. why is it so we're so was, it's still a very sensitive subject. ah, but i think, you know, we've, we've known about the stories about the duke and indeed even the official life of it with the 8, talked about some of them. but i don't think anyone joined the dots and actually drew the obvious conclusion that he wasn't the innocent job that they've tried to pursue or project that he actually was inactive intrigue. or, i mean, view is all around the world will know the story as a great romance between the king who abdicated and gave his thrown up for the love of a woman. and that's the story that damages television writers. we've had, in fact, in the book you talk about the taming of journalists, diamond dime, again, is that taming of jonas continuing today in covering up the reality of? well, maybe people just want to buy into the meth and is

a myth. the fact is that she was emotionally blackmailed into marrying him or he threatened to kill himself if she didn't. she felt chain to this man throughout a life, which is why she eventually bought on various bears. and the worst that she was more unpleasant. she was to him, the more he liked it was extraordinary. so object, object and pathetic character. so i think that that's a myth and had sent me rethink the application because i think that what happened is people realize how unsuitable he would be asking how much he wanted to fear and constitutional matters and how pro german he was. and as a result, they use the pretext of wallace to basically maneuver him into, to abdicating. and we know about her, i mean more recently, prince harry in a nazi uniform. maybe the breast will love that given that they've taken against megan marco and prince harry. but when you speak of the nazi sympathies, the connections with the nurse is the secret services next door to this building the studio. they had him on the radar even before. i mean there was an

assassination attempt before he was king. i'm not sure that i should attempt in 9030 sakes when he was king. but the dumpster services had been bugging him on the back at the behest of his father. he's the only monarch who had to have bogged, but he was also, we don't know where we didn't know. that's true. those are the papers been released, you're up to right. but i can't think of any others. that would be ok. but what's extraordinary is the f b, i were also monitoring him. the french secret service were monitoring him later. his police protection officers were, were reporting back to the commissioner of police. so everyone was watching him and his associates and waltz associates because they were pretty georgia people all the way through his life, particularly in the spirit 3536 and he was, he was very close to. reuben dropped the german ambassador. there were jazz of german agent to be sent to, to actually live beside wallison bronson court. and he was taking germs down to, to the fort bell fios country home. and leading door is red box is open and time

and time again. it's information was finance, weight, and germans. so i don't know if there was a nazi spy or not, but there are reports in the book or that you relate that there was on the table. the possibility that churchill would do what the fascination of the truth of windsor is why i mean the various stages. but i mean, he was very similar to the germans. what he was king, he in fact tried to, to, to do, to speak to, to interfere with the rhine language demilitarised, trying soften the blow and talked to politicians. but then, you know, during the war, i think this is the important thing. he tries to have a piece party in january 1940, and then there's the famous operation, willy in the summer of 1940, where he is actually going in and out of the german embassy, talking to them about becoming a sort of british better figure, go lighter this is what he hopes to be as he sits it out in portugal. and this key moment in the summer of 1940 when we're about to be invaded in the hope that

perhaps lord george be prime minister. and he'll be king, and churchill, in georgia, 6 will be sent to canada or excuse your present or whatever. and yet the media is so odd that you depict arguably maybe as a, maybe as a change. i'll get out to that. but at the wedding of edward, amid steps of them, there's bouquets from churchill and hitler. although their presence for both of them you say yeah, he was close. you know, he was, it became friendly with hitler because he met him in october 1937 along with other nazi leaders when he did his tour of germany and toward sir ss, training camps. church, of course, of his great a protector of the application. here for sort of was for the kings party, but i think is church. we began to realize really what, what winter was like. his sympathies waned. and as you say, he had someone puts of you to russell in spain to assassinate him. if required, if, if, if he did go across the germans, he threatened court martial him, and the reason he was sent to the bahamas as governor was basically to get him out

of the way is in the so he couldn't get up to any mischief. but of course, even the bahamas, he was up to mischief with german agents. i mean, today there's a class of all agog tech. no, all a girl who talks about ayn rand and all sorts of strange political ideas. i mean, not necessarily, but all these people that i walk on parts in this book called poor to summers at more money. the g t regretted gov. elizabeth taylor, maria callas, and it's hemingway, they're all hanging out at different times over lunch, with professed neo nazis or of people who are suspect. we're the ones that they talked about. i mean, i think they love the glamour of being associated with a former king. and vice versa, i mean he, they ran a very good table this, you know, wallace was a fantastic hostess. you know, one night wait. she said to butler, he said there are any 6 for dinner. she said yes, but they are all kings paid by the british taxpayer or by the monarchy. babe, by the british dogs had money. exactly. he had money, you know,

from the civil list or from the family and come to the civil list. but he had huge investments, he'd saved a lot of money when he was prince of wales. he had plenty of money he mixed with, with people like clint murchison, who was of course, connect with the kennedy assassination rich texas oil barons who basically bankrolled him. and he sponged off these people and he got thing, he paid his staff not very well. he got, he was got cheated free stuff. so he was able to since live very well on, perhaps slightly less expensive than others. i mean general motors forwarded there . so he drove a b, r, y, with the rothschilds of bank, rolled them given the famous jewish family. of course, well, certainly the rothschilds game accommodation when he 1st abdicated for they would do it again, whose awful to them. and in fact, kitty rothschild left off for a few weeks. she just couldn't stand him use, he was running up huge t telephone bills. he expected them to pay. he was very rude to her. and so

in some ways a teammates really well, i mean yes, yes, exactly. he even to it was life. he saw hitler was a good chap and he was anti semitic and he remained very friendly with people. i also mostly, but he knew about the holocaust and he knew what the lady was on. yeah, yeah. i mean, they were open about it, i mean, and then as regards the cover up the great labor, $945.00 government, clement actually hot off the heels of the malaya, or insurgency which killed untold a hundreds of thousands of people. arguable genocide. they, the athlete government works together to cover up papers to save the monarchy as it were. yes, i mean, this is extremely episode that these german documents, which of the telegrams took place in the lighting for in 1940, which were supposed to been destroyed by the germans actually weren't. and they were found by the americans. that was the lucky thing. they were found, the american sector and american stores decided they would use these documents. and

of course, it was a big fight. the americans put pressure on the british. sorry, the bridge put pressure on the americans to suppress the zach documents to destroy them. some indeed were destroyed, but the american historians and it was a fight track that freedom said no, this is important bit of history and we need to preserve this. and eventually though churchill and others managed to delay publication till 957, many of these documents were published. but they were then just ridiculed and said that you know, these, these people reporting back about his activities were just making it up. which, you know, it was ridiculous, but that was the story that was bought. and you can see how much work you've done to try and assemble what we do do have. but then the big irony is the moral of the tale as it were. is the reason britain still has a monarchy? could well be because of edward. yes, i think the ironies and hollister's great service, you know, because because he didn't become king because if he did, we might want them to deal with it before the war. we would certainly done

a deal in 1940 if he'd be come back. so we wouldn't have gone down the path we went on. so it's all the secret service, it would have killed him. or there would've been something going on, but it's very interesting. all the, the fictions written about him is all about what would have happened if he'd been this go lighter figure. but yeah, the story is there the story isn't in the british archives. i had to go to the bahamas, that there were the mirror files where he was governor, moves governor to get and where they haven't, we did the fall. so there's quite a lot of stuff there that's not in the british archives. and then the stuff in america, the stuff in france, portugal in spain, russia, but you won't find it in these in here because those, those are cause having read it. and of course the queen still would have been the queen eventually because they couldn't have children. but, but ironically, mrs. simpson, who is always cost as the evil in many of the dramas and so on, comes off quite well. she helps in women's health care, food banks, in the bahamas,

not a purpose and the bahamas as a governor's wife. and she tried to do her bit, she served in the canteen every day on the base cooking up making an egg office for citizens soldiers. and she, she, as you say, worked in these clinics with young black children. she did try to improve their lot because he was a racist. yeah, they were both funny racists and in many way she course, she grew up, you know, she came from baltimore. she grew up in the south. so, you know, her view of black people was, was very different to what we would feel now. but he, frankly, given up any, any intention of doing anything there. he realized that bahamas was run by local business from the bay street boys. and he just went and played golf very important also to avoid taxes. that seems to be a really major currency, isn't it over to save money even? well, london was being bombed there trying to work out how to get more money out of the british tax. yeah, yeah, yeah, but also, i mean, i think they lived very or station ostentatiously at

a time with or started both during the war and off the war. so i mean they actually had p r people to advise them that taking you to pieces of luggage to new york and, and, and to hear of a huge hotels. floors wasn't a good idea when people were suffering, but they had, they had a 10 year. you know, even when they got the bahamas, the 1st request was to refurbish government house, even though that was the cost of several spitfires at the height of the battle. britain, you know, he was a petulance, spoilt child who just have his own way. so just finally, why the cover up and why the continuing cover up and why would book in palace not reply to any of your requests for information? well, i think it is still embarrassing. the queen's uncle, you know, was a traitor during the war. the narrative that was meant for church portray with the royal family during the war, you know, and though the distance himself from that and they froze him out. the fact is, he's the former king. you know, people work for far less than he did. i mean, he should have been, you know,

he should have been at nuremberg and that is an embarrassing story. it's still embarrassing story. hence, no one really wants to go there. and so do you think that strategy continues today? we know that the prince andrew, who denies all accusations against him, obviously in trouble now linked to epstein. and so what is that kind of the palace is? i think that's a defacto policy to is to her, to delay things in the hope that the problem will go away or people will give up. and to deny, deny, deny course, you're getting yourself in deeper and deeper. and i think it's, you know, they've learned nothing from windsor with. hello, prince harry's not a not see, even though he's married a divorce. see this embarrassing parallel. of course with higher megan, you know, the same fight over finance and security. the same of suing of journalists who didn't agree with the same curation to the story, to tame book righteous sibling rivalry, and just as no falling out to me again,

the playbook is the same. well, you know the same book right, andrew, that he's who likes to be back thanks for the show will be back on wednesday. the neighboring announces its budget and 27 years with a stock market crashes in southeast asia, regular global economic crisis until then, keep in touch with social media and tell us whether you think the british monarchy should continue to be funded by tax good, driven by adrenal shaped bank for senators with there's sinks,

we dare to ask ah, top stories and artsy international this monday morning. and enlist tied up broke good promise is a new report. spidey people did. vaccine lines blames rich countries and pharmaceutical giants for killing to deliver on their obligations and dragging out the pandemic. also i had an anti biden song centered on social media store and was to the top of the i itunes cards we hear from the let's go brandon rob. out right now, if you're trying to act like a my view of what's going on, you can being partly could be anything story. we're closely following right now to