welcome to the alex salmon. sure. will we look at the feature of the planet a bait to be determined at cop $26.00 in glad school. is this as american special climate and by john katy says, the last best hope for humanity or is it just another summit? low and rhetoric and short on delivery? well, we ask doctor to hunt of cambridge university where the engineering and science can offer a solution to planetary warming. and on the eve of the summit, the prime minister dealt a huge blow to scotland hopes of leading the dash to the hydrogen economy. by prioritizing 2 english projects. over the scottish cluster, alex asked to hazelton, professor of carbon, capture and storage at the university of edinburgh. what to make a bit of a patent to body blue to the scottish academy. breakfast to your teacher emails and messages in response to our interview last week with professor parameter on the prospects. but a new understanding between the west under slam. it was 1st from market peyton,

who says excellent interview. great. sure, what's his, me and alex love it. well, thank you margaret and phil kennedy says and listen to christopher lee been carson a film jenna. he was indeed a great cast. william nichol says, another sensible program. thank you, professor and all at the alec salmon. sure. i do believe that the children will meet the future better world wide, probably better if they would in charge no. can to any worse than the so called leaders are doing at the moment. step if it's not over yet wise words from william and our professor at both initiatives on the understanding between east and west. this laird says i knew nothing of this. thank you so much. excellent. arthur milner says this is seriously fascinating stuff. and finally, and so i'm, it says thank you for an informative interview with professor i'm it. and i over to alex, i'm dr. hugh hunt faster here. welcome to the examine show. i'm glad to be

here. we're on the eve of cop 26. we exactly, i mean, do we have the capacity scientifically or politically to arrest the global warming? well, we're not going to arrest global warming just like that. it's going to take a lot of work. it's going to take a lot of ambition, lot of commitment by scientifically and politically. but it was just this week, given the prime minister of especially as a skeptical leaving micro seemed to commit themselves to the, to the seattle carbon targets committed to the, to the net 0 carbon target. and it's important to realize that there isn't a commitment to stop bending coal. there isn't a commitment to stop exporting coal. and to be net 0. you've got to find a way of getting the c o 2 out of the atmosphere and underground or somewhere else . so what you're saying is we take sequestration, carbon capture,

what we're talking points of the last the last couple of weeks, a half of the carbon to capture you have to have the carbon to capture very convenient if you've got a call thought power station to make electricity, you've got a lot of carbon coming out of the, the flu, this the, the chimney of the power station get that come outside on the ground. if you've got a convenient place to store it, that's kind of fine. but once we stop burning fossil fuels, where is that neat? concentrated carbon dioxide. so it's going to be because in the atmosphere, the carbon dioxide is very dolly. so you're looking at stage b on carbon capture. i mean, when the world isn't even successfully deploying carbon capture, but you're already thinking, what's the states beyond that? the reason i'm thinking like that is that we don't have viable carbon capture and storage at scale yet. that's no doubt going to be peps viable in 101520 years time. but by that state,

we really ought not to be burning fossil fuels to generate electricity. because we have options, we have solar, we have wind, we have nuclear, if we're willing. and we have title if we want, we have hydro, we've have lots of options. we ought not to be burning fossil fuels to make electricity, and off the elephant of ideas that you're coming out with her. so the, an article will you are thinking about how you can re please the optic is that is a realistic proposal in any sense. well, so rephrase. the arctic is okay, it's a bit of a bit of a catchy catch phrase. but it is important to recognize that the arctic region is warming may be 3 times faster than the average for the planet. and if we lose or when we lose the summer, i seen the arctic. it's a bit like losing the ice in your glass, have whatever it is. if his eyes and he didn't, whisky incidentally just water was ok. just whatever. let's say it's

a gin and tonic, then if there is ice, even the tiniest amount of ice, you can be pretty sure that that drink is cold. soon as you know, ice. then the temperature in the arctic of the arctic summer water temperature will rise to what we don't know underneath the arctic is permafrost, which is then going to stop melting. there's a lot of me saying locked in there. me saying there's a greenhouse gas then the greenland i show, which is already melting, the melting of that will accelerate. so it's not that we know how to re tracy arctic, but we know that it's really important that we figure out at least how to slow it's right of melting down the ability stamps me moto, so substantial to miss after years at the image of s, they well, what mood do detect among your students must change an attitude towards these

matters. well, the students 10 years ago perhaps, but not even talking about this as a subject student activism, but not about climate change. but right now, great and back as as accelerated student activism and climate, the passion of students talking about climate is palpable. it's great. we've set up the center for climate repair at cambridge and the interest, the student interest in this whole area so amazing we, we just don't have a shortage a toll of students wanting to help doing projects on climate repair. so professor, let's just say you want to glass go next we would you rather be, would you want to be outside the conference, whole giving these well leaders a piece of mind or alternative? would you like to be say a few solutions? well, i'm going to be there and i'm going to be outside because that i think is where things are going to happen inside. it's very important that we have this political

process, this, this legislative process getting things right. but then what follows on from that is we've got to act on the commitments. what many well leaders would say, and so what, what, almost halfway to it was the targets which would embrace the pilot. this was the answer, but that was the easy half for those who are halfway off that remaining difficult half to meet one of the most promising technologies. so provide the best answer as well. yes, the u. k is almost halfway the u. k. has done pretty well, getting halfway by like getting rid of coal. we've got a lot of gas we've seen recently. that gas is kind of problem. how are we going to get off guess we need more solar? well, solar is not really how thing. in scotland there's, there's hydro,

which is fantastic. wind against scotland has got plenty of skype po in i think we're going to find this 2nd half rather difficult. and also that difficulty . what's the best hope? but i've been, john kennedy says that glasgow is the last best for humanity. let's concentrate in the best. what is it, professor on? i'm no fan of large scale nuclear, but i wonder where the, the small module a nuclear reactors will end up coming favorable in certain places. it's like, well be another dream, like the fowl, the actor, like what fusion white the most of it. i don't think that's quite like that because we do have small reactors in nuclear submarines. the technology at that small scale exists and is functioning and has been as become reliable and established. if

it can become something that you and i would be happy, at least not too unhappy to have someone near us knowing that it's safe maybe that is the way to deal with this some laptop you spoke about repealing the planet? less interesting concept. little the pilot, we broke it at those type of fix it. what do you mean by that? well, we've got to stop bending fossil fuels and we've got to get come outside and methane out of the atmosphere, which is does a very important, but we're probably not going to get those things done in time to rescue say, the act that the ac is melting fast antarctic? following so. so what technologies can we find to slow down or reverse the melting as the arctic, the melting of the himalayan glaciers? there that that sort of the big things. and that's what i mean by repairing the

planet, and that means mental repealing the ocean. this self, the oceans of warm. so can we find ways of cooling the oceans? one thing we can do is to make clouds over the oceans whiter. there's it, there's an idea called marine cloud brightening, and we have students in cambridge working on this. lots of people around the world are working on this can be spray salt water, which is basically what wind does waves make spray of salt water. it helps to create white clouds. so can we assist that process? can we assist the oceans in increasing the amount of biomass by a mass take sincere to from the air. eventually it's taken up by organisms, whales, fish, they pu, and that stop 6 to the bottom can be increased the carbon uptake of the oceans. so

the oceans, which, because of the consequences for human impact are the greatest threat in through the oceans. rising. could also provides us to come up to thumbs on this planet. the greatest solution, the surface area of the oceans, easy, enormous. so if you can imagine just 2 percent of the ocean surface is if you like, fertilized to improve its carbon dioxide uptake. that would have a huge impact that let me t back to the lecture holes of cambridge university. as a villain, idea concept for coming from your students has made you thought eureka. you know, it's something that sir lisa, these youngsters will come up with which, which might shape the future of the planet. the thing i love about these wacky ideas you get from students who it might be a bit of a poly 13 when there was that explosion there on the way to the moon. and look, there's no way we can get these 3 astronauts back. not on my watch,

we're getting them back. and the wacky ideas were, which had been dismissed at the beginning. they're the ones that worked. my bet is that the students go and work somewhere. and that's where the iraqi ideas fund, fertile soil. let's hope it so lucky for the planet professor, hugh hunt cambridge university. thank you so much for joining been the alex island show. it's been a pleasure join us after the break when alex examines why the scott is proposals for carbon capture, have been relegated by the u. k. government, we'll see you then. ah, ah.

well come back in a preview of the prospects of the vital cop, 26 summits in glasgow. alec speaks to professors to hazeltine about the contribution which carbon capture can play in securing emission reductions. though delighted to be joined by the fester heseltine the was fust ever professor of carbon captions storage stewart. welcome to the alex ivan hsu. hi, glad to be here. alex, thank you for letting me know when you got that appointment a few years ago that was fast. our professional cabin capitain stood. well, when was that and how did it come about? what came about?

because in scotland, around 2005 british petroleum b, p made the 1st bid to develop carbon capture and storage using that depleted oil field and using a power station. the u. k. government wasn't ready for that. so they pushed back on b p and created a competition. and into that competition came scottish power, which is our regional, if you like, electricity generation distributor, trying to fit carbon capture on to the long, gannett power station in the central part of scotland. and as part of that research and development in industrial package, they thought it wise to sponsor professor ah, place to university of edinburgh. and so on. the 1st professor of calvin capture and storage, still work unit hope not to be the last so therefore of years and what exactly is carbon captions to limit as it's bonding about in terms of a number of technologies. but what an essence is the, the principles behind cabin catch?

sure, i think that's important because are using carbon in its various forms is a really important her industrial process in our whole industrial society. so we use carbon out of the ground, coal, oil and methane gas to make electricity, and to burn as heat. but we also use carbon out of the ground as feedstock into chemicals to make plastics and paints. we also use carbon out of the ground to make fertilizer until may to help making in cement and iron steel. and in all those processes, whether it's burning or as a seed stock, than the carbon often gets oxidized chemically to carbon dioxide. and at the moment the carbon dioxide is just dumped in the atmosphere, not drives, climate change, whereas carbon capture and storage enables you to capture that carbon using a chemical absorption sponge if you like. or instead of going up the chimney, the carbon dioxide gets captured. we can purify that, put that into a pipe,

just like an oil and gas pipe and send that away to be injected several kilometers down deep beneath the north sea for storage permanent storage further. and that keeps the climate clean. but still lets us use the benefits of the fossil fuel. and so how certain is that a storage am elaina when thanks in the past of people say all nuclear waste a, b, o k is stored in deep underground. mit isn't a danger, the carbon dioxide would find its way out at least dunden oil wells. well, it's a great question. of course not one which a lot of people ask for. we can be really very confident indeed that we have both a good understanding of how to make artificial carbon dioxide stores and a good rate understanding of how to manage those once we've made them. there is carbon dioxide deep beneath the north sea, which has been there for 60000000 years as carbon dioxide in germany are from the volcanoes and central germany as carbon dioxide in italy leaking out from the

volcanoes, present volcanoes in italy, and especially in the united states in colorado and arizona, and we can go to these places and understand that we need to find a porous rock which has got small holes in it, overlaid by an impermeable seal like a slate on the roof of your house. and that enables us to put the carbon dioxide into the holes in the microscopic holes in the rock. but stop that from leaking out with the roof on the top. and we know that can be secure and safe, not just for 10000 years, which we need just now by for 10000000 or even a 100000000 years. so it got really good confidence in this that what on the eve of cop 26 in the city of glasgow. how essential. and you'd estimation is carbon capture to fulfill the you case, climate tank targets and indeed the world's climate tongues. so the u. k. are under the countries, but mainly the u. k. of got a long way in reducing carbon emissions and reducing those harmful climate,

changing emissions, we've got about half way towards the target of net 0. and the 1st part is the easy part. but to do the 2nd part in need to change people's behavior, you need to use different fuels. you need to change the way we are. we work slightly. and as an essential part of that, we need to capture the rest of the carbon, which we can't just reduce by changing how we operate. we need to capture about a 5th or even a quarter of the carbon, which we're presently emitting by carbon capture and storage. and that's common to all industrial countries. and to get to net 0, the u. k. committee on climate change is very clearly supported carbon capture and storage for the past 10 years and has become more and more of the citrus in its support for carbon capture and storage. and about a year and a half ago they for famously said that carbon capture storage is not an option. it's absolutely essential if any country is going to get to know 0. and that's

a message to the politicians in charge who have really been dancing round the edges, the dance floor here, instead of going in and making clear and bold decisions to develop this carbon capture and storage. but of course, certain green organizations under the green politicians are of st of academics like yourself or, or the politicians like me who've been champions of carbon capture that we're green washing the, you know, we're trying to, to find an easy route or, or something like that. what, what's your answer to the accusation? well, i can understand why, ah, people make that type of accusation. because some of the large companies to, to undertake this operation of capturing transporting and storing in need a large industrial actor, a company that's well accustomed to doing quite big industrial projects because we need industrial solutions for this industrial problem that we've created. and a lot of those companies are oil and gas companies and that leads to suspicion that

they won't behave well. but that's really up to partly up to government to make the rules tight, make sure the rules are enforced. and so one rule we've got already is that u. k should decrease and decrease and decrease its carbon emissions with 5 yearly carbon budgets to end up with 0 emissions in 2050. but another way of doing that is to make sure that her companies are honoring the what their shareholders want. and it's clear that the shareholders in companies like b, p, and shell, and total. and mo, bill of all said that we want, they saw a company to be $90.00 and setting off and storing the carbon dioxide, which is a consequence of the fuels. it's produce it. so there's a, a double pence movement on the company's so that he's got the skills, the politicians need to make rules, and the shareholders will put them to account. i should mention that when these projects have been in the offing for a long time,

back to 2005 or when warehouse office and advocate as the local m. p of the, the miller project. peter at palo station, later, his 1st minister, the lanet project, but both of these ideas, what was sunk by the, by the u. k. government? no, it wouldn't be reasonable to say a, for either of these have gone ahead than the delegates to call 20 sex glasgow this weekend would be getting on a bus and, and tuning to see these wondrous carbon capture projects. what, what is i once extent of the, the missed opportunity over these last 15 years? i think the, you case had 4 cycles, 4 sets of opportunity, at least in this. so once it's v p projects you mentioned in 2005 again with the long janet project, 2007 cycling back. trying again in 2015 with a project around peter head, which is a pass station in northeast scotland. and again, most recently are with

a project based around industry is the so called acorn projects in scotland. and each time that has been done, they design brief has been very fully achieved house with the ache on projects. we know that we've got full marks in most of the, in all of the categories i think are we've got the most deliverable project. we've got the lease cost project. we've got the best skills, we can explain what we're doing. but each time mysteriously somehow, when stutter package of application goes in to the westminster complex somewhere, the rules get adapted in scotland seems to be a loser all the time. and that's crazy because the world needs this, the u. k needs this in scotland is still for better or worse part of the u. k. and if we develop these from 2005 onwards, we would, we would indeed be touring, global delegates round our 3rd or even 4th generation of carbon capture and storage

power plants cover and capture and storage and industry in saying don't just believe what we say here is the metal here is the pipe work. here is the operation you guys can do this too. and the world would be in a much better place instead of progressively increasing carbon emissions in the atmosphere each year. we'd have turn that curve over and we'd be decreasing towards net 0. so this is a global failure, and it starts here in the u. k. let's relegation of the economy project that the scottish cluster. i mean, this is more than just the, the loss of potentially tens of thousands of jobs. and with this is a always a dagger aimed at the hostels that the scottish industrial struck me. what future can the be for offshore oil and gas and scotland? if there isn't a, a means of disposing the carbon, does it what future for grains my for finally, if there isn't a method of stopping damaging emissions. so i think those are all exactly

a point points exactly on target because the whole explanation of why the westminster governments gone through this current cycle of competition is to try and take carbon emissions away from all these industrial areas around the u. k. so they're industrial areas in te side in the north, east of england. there's industrial areas in, in holland, homicide industrial areas around manchester because the u. k. thanks to the industrial revolution and burning lots of coal. and then last oil is a very industrial country. so those industries are to have a future, they need to be de carbonized. we need to find a way of taking the carbon, capturing the carbon, as i explained earlier, taking that away and putting that deep on the ground in a safe storage site. and ne, scotland is absolutely ideal for that. and what we can do here is start quickly. we can develop very low cost by reusing a lot of that oil and gas equipment. we have a lot of skills for the offshore industry,

which are well familiar with building pipelines and operating all attic. quitman off shore, very safely and securely. and we have a set of european oil companies who have been asked by their shareholders to get down to net 0 and store carbon. and those companies are really wanting to cluster around projects, but that needs the government to give permission and needs the government of the u . k. or to give some encouragement and permission and initial financial awards to permit that to proceed. and that's persistently been missed all the time. so we're on the 4th cycle. i'm once again this has been missed this perfect combination of conditions. oh, glad professor hazel the unless opportunity will come again. i want one last question and that's when you lecturing teaching a student said to edinburgh university. how seized are of these young people with the, the idea of carbon capture lately, by the studies and hopefully by the careers may be making her

a substantial contribution to saving our planet as a real zeal behind the the carbon captioning through this. there absolutely is. yes . and that's part, and that's embedded as part of a whole might a package at the university of edinburgh. but coven couch and storage is certainly one of the stand out activities. and every time i lecture to multiple different classes of undergraduates or to students coming in from brown the world to take master's courses and advanced level, those classes are always very keen, very enthused. asked lots of questions, go away, talk to their friends about it. so there's no doubt that we have the skills and ability. we've got the training to offer. actually all we need is some real projects now where we can effectively go and knock on the door, kick the tires, and go and see it happening. professor, still hazel dave, good luck with your all you're doing and, and thank you so much for joining me now. examine. show a pleasure. thank you for inviting me the well this warming and

a crisis is upon us, but i the leaders under on to i have 25. they isn't up to the task at hand in glasgow. the all get is, are not good. neither peasant, kia, china, nor present piston of russia, will even be in attendance with the horse conscious. first minister is not invited . as part of the u. k. delegation. if leaders in the u. k are incapable of putting a safe, personal rivalries in the run up to the summit. then what hope is there for substantial decisions requiring real sacrifice? or, as johnson has been sent, an uncharacteristically pessimistic and the run up to corp. stressing the difficulties in agreeing joint action. this may be a deliberate tactic looking to under promised sent over deliver. for example, rumor has it that investment fund of an annual 100000000000 pains of climate finance. first promised to the developing world in 2009 will be announced in

glasgow as finally being met. however, in the real world, gas and cor price of storage to record ties and the refusal of the u. k. government to prioritize carbon captain scotland, we have the bitter taste for the payment of star political power to trumps climate logic. it means to be seen by the glasgow 2021 will be seen itself as a turning point or another missed opportunity for now from alex, myself and all at the show. it's good bye, stacy. and we hope to see you all again next week. ah ah ah,

when our troops seemed wrong when all things just don't move, yes to see out is the because the attitude and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. good and bad dream shapes and kirsten with dares thinks we dare to ask

ah, taking he tolerates, help them market. european gallus prices fall after vladimir putin orders the russian energy joined gals problem to up supplies to europe. also ahead in the program, a key figure from january's capitol hill, riah to was caught on camera encouraging people to storm that building is quietly removed from the f. b. i most wanted list prompting questions about this backup does the faith of julian or saelens is debated in the case high court. the whistleblower supporters demand his freedom one m e p told them say it's time the government stepped it. it probably needs a political process rather than

a traditional process. the politicians need to stop.