of the show 48 hours after another court hearing in the case of julian, the son, jesse on the verge of being freed from bill marsh prison. we ask the un router on torture who continues to allege the world's most famous publisher is being tortured by you. k authorities and his cop 26 gets underway in glasgow. why did you k be embarrassed? johnson's ex goldman sachs chancellor. just slash taxes on fossil fuels and champagne in a country where one in 4 children live in poverty, all the same or coming up in today's going underground. but 1st, let's go straight to the case of the world's most famous publisher. joining me now from switzerland at this pivotal moment is the un rubber to her and torture niels meltzer, whose evidence has been used in julian sanchez defense. thank you so much. a neil's for coming back on you have been told by british politicians. i understand not to interfere with our court. the system in this specific case are we now know that the joe biden administration's, the crown prosecution lawyer here, proxy lawyer here at james louis qsc says julian assange is a,

his health is fine. he can be extradited to face a possible 175 years in a, in the united states in jail. as you are traveling, you're back on the show. i'm, you know, obviously you would expect to say that right. ember, appealing be the 1st instance decisions i can talk, you know, based on extensive medical evidence that by the way, corresponds exactly to the findings. stats are, you know, we can to, with my own medical, cheaper visitor julian. asunder bel martian banker of may 2000 and she's in no position to be extradited to a prison system. or, you know, as the one in the us. and, you know, i just like to take a step back here. the actual discussion is that he should not even be in prison. why? why is he being, you know, and i that in the 1st place, given that he's not committed any crime was, you know, this is what is better. uh, better as you know, he's a flight risk because he sought to political asylum and gained it in london. and

all his journalism, as it were, does not protect him from the u. s. espionage act. that's what judgment as a rates are said. that's why it's only as help that's a consideration. i'm really glad you mentioned that because that's the scandal in this case. if you look at that 1st instance, judgement, that was, that's not a victory for the julian sanji. you know, campbell, for during the suns himself or for press freedom, one for that matter. it is a truck because in a little preceding prejudicial, always goes through 2 or 3 incidents by not extra riding him in the 1st madison court level. what that did legally speaking is that he puts the us in the position to appeal. otherwise, had you been extradited, then julia sans would have appealed and he would have brought all those questions of press freedom of political offence, political motivation in that prosecution. the attentive fascination and kidnapping all those things, he would have brought to the high court level, maria judges, which much stronger independence and expertise,

but it was quite smart by the u. s. the u. k. 2, to have it arranged the other one, so they don't extroverted. and in the 1st instance they, they basically confirmed a whole narrative about yes, you're not actually sessions of everything and stuff. the precedent criminalizing basic the journalist for that matter, what they will only bring those questions to the appeals court that they want to consider. but just to the us under state of health and their prison conditions. and now mind you, their prison conditions is absolutely in their control. they can make diplomatic guarantees at any stage of to any extent to neutralize those concerns. they can offer medical services, they can offer no guarantees when they got to the conditions of retention, which makes it very difficult from a high court now to refuse extradition. yes, james are excuse. he seemed to be saying, we have a psychiatric asylum. we can throw julian sans into if he has mental problem once

sir, exercises in given what you just said, is it sensible for wiki leaks, lawyer edwards, gerald, you see to me in a way, excepting the criminalization of journalism and appealing to the judges. all right, and burnett that look and he shouldn't be extradited because of that early a judgement. and this is what it is you, you know, the global south, you know, cases of torture all around the world. isn't it more normal for a defense barrister to be claiming this court isn't even as something that should be should be respected. you already criminalize journalism, your judicial system. we shouldn't accept anything from this court. well, the question is that the moral stance? but the question is, how much is 2nd to help julian the sounds and the legal proceedings? and yes, it is a scandal. but, you know, the espionage, actually, the u. s. in itself is campbell, the official secrets act in the u. k. in itself is a scandal because both of them criminalized the disclosure of secret information, irrespective of public interest. the high court cast changed and they can certainly

they can certainly, you know, be reasonable and apply the law to the the medical states that you know junior passengers and they know exactly what the prison conditions are like in the us. as far as i know, the defense team has also crossed the peel. it's just at the cross appeal, which then brings all those other question before, but that obviously will only be dealt with if the u. s. is successful in it. so before we get to that stage, just to be clear as things stand right now in london, if you were about to suddenly, i dunno or show me a tv set of reuters journalists being gun down by helicopter gunship or both of us could be tortured. we could be subject to a u. s. secretary of state claiming that we were a non state or sale actors worthy of assassination on the streets of london. that, that precedent is all already been said and could be extradited. that that's all

fine. it's just the suicide risk. well, you know, think about the murder of george floyd, which was recorded on video and only because of that video check that that clip. we had the evidence that george floyd was actually murdered and there was no, you know, that was not a medical crisis. it was not a case of self defense or something. it was just, no, no, just the cache. and, but in back a, a public protests against santa police police brutality which, you know, the authority is not being able to avoid prosecuting those officials. unfortunately, in the case of collateral murder, there are simply has been a completely different narrative of, you know, the u. s. going out parents and you know, fighting terrorism and so on, that it's very, very difficult for an average citizen who doesn't have privileged access to, you know, what actually happens behind the curtains of policy making. they actually believe that narrative, very difficult for lane lay people to actually understand that full

picture. i you said, believe what the mainstream process is calendar. you know, when you started your special united nations investigation into the case of judy and assange, you were, you weren't alone, lots of supporters of judy and sons, but there weren't so many groups to day. every major human rights and free speech organization in the world. a backs your allegations arguably have. why then do you think it's not a big a mainstream media story? it is here in r t. i cannot speak for him. i think it's a scandal that it isn't. because i mean, this is the absolutely key case on press freedom on freedom of expression, but far beyond on human rights and human dignity on the integrity of our rule of law. institutions of our judicial independence of outer destroys the transparency.

right? to know that people have a right to know what their governments are doing with the tax money and the power that we, the people delegates to our government. this is about our rights. you know, it's about your ability to oversee, to control you know, the integrity of, of, of your government. because if that becomes a crime, we're doing an essentially done, you know, nothing that he has been accused of except receiving and publishing evidence for less. you have been proven, you know, this whole section allegations have been dropped by sweden, not because it's, you know, expired or something like this, but because they didn't have enough evidence. even charge them of any offense whatsoever. after 9 years, this was instrumental iced to demonize. you know, this, the thing about human having blood is, i mean,

it's different to kill us claim because we know that the u. s. government for, you know, what an a decade has not been able to advance a single case individual who may have been put in danger because of those publications. even know now that during the central lot, even the 1st person who publish those under directed files. but he made them accessible on wiki leaks as well after they have been made accessible by a passer being published by 2 guardian. and stayed in the weekly journal fi talking in germany. and she did so only after he had taken contact with the white house and tried to do damage control because of the, the leaks by those other actors. but what we know is that the evidence that she has, that's not about people being threatened, that people being portrait, people being great. people being murdered, you know, under front of her running camera. and these people have never been trusted. have

never been how to account and so this is really what this is about. it's about protecting to impunity. criminals of corrupt politicians. this is what this is about. so we want to intimidate the person who has come up with a general idea how to use the internet to allow whistleblowers to remain anonymous while transmitting, you know, millions of files that prove a government misconduct. obviously if that proliferates and the half of the only one we can leaks that we have $15000.00 which leaks around the world. then you know, the kind of security establishment, but they're secrecy. they can pack up and leave with their business model. they really have to start then applying democratic principles being subject to democratic oversights, respect to rule of law, and that's just not today's reality. his finally am, i don't know whether that means the journalist himself,

their minds are arbitrarily detained. but i don't know whether you caught glimpses of julian assange at the trial this week. he doesn't look well. his partner selim, or as his father john shipped and they, they will look worried. what will it mean for whistleblowers and publishers in the global south on torture? nobody detention what would it mean for, for journalism v if he, if he does, it's probably die. now when we start asking this question, if he dies in london under the jurisdiction of british authorities here. well, if you should dine prison, he has effectively been tortured to death. that's the reality of it. i mean, i am not exaggerate. i've been working in areas of war. i have long history of visiting prisoners. i visited during their sons and i have to specialize forensic doctors with me in a psychiatrist evaluating him for 4 hours and no be all independently from each other kendra's conclusions. at that time his life was in danger,

and he sure enough, a few days after we left the prison he entered the boundary spiral. during the sound is not mentally ill. yes, he has a slight form of autism, as you know many people do, but he is very resilient, intelligent man. and, and so he does not belong in a mental institution. right? so if he has a mental issue now it's because of abuse that he has suffer and you cannot you cannot get someone to recover from torture by continuing, continuing to torture. and that's exactly what they do. they isolate tend to keep in back limbo. busy and just put the record straight for everybody doing this and not serving a sentence. he's not even accused of a any anything that will be criminal. he is being held in extradition detention to, as you said, to prevent his escape in case he should be extra at the end. but he does not need

to be in belmar prison for that. even if you, even if we assume for the purpose of the argument that yes back extradition proceeding is the did image, we have to somehow secure his presence. it can be in house or us. that's what it is . it was the p. no say he was protected by the u. k. government to put them in a bill on my does. hatcher visited him and brought him misty. and as soon as he, you know, a doctor, a test that, that he had some problems to concentrate and had slight forms of amnesia. he was fumbled out. maybe not even facing a dutch do. his son who has a great, you know, medical harm has been caused to him in the last decade to that, to a constant. you know, i solution defamation and abuse, and up i come from anxiety that he suffers and he's being isolated, absolutely unnecessary, and therefore unlawful. so she is continuously also arbitrarily to change. it would

be a tragedy if she lost his life in those circumstances. he went special aperture. thank you. thank you very much. after the break, the queen putin and she may not be going, but why did the budget of the boards, johnson government, just sabotage. net 0 targets at the weekends comp $26.00 conference. well, the small can we have about to have going underground? ah, you have to understand that so much of this later stuff is theatrical, it's purely theatrical nation. did not fight for georgia in 2008 sites to georgia. there was not the slightest consideration of also fighting the georgia and food it didn't fight the ukraine in 2014 either. and there was absolutely no intention anywhere in western europe to send a single dock, short danish or german or french soldier to fight in you cried, ah

ah, if you want something done, right, do it yourself. the acronym d i y, i e, do it yourself has now become the name for a new genre of online videos. we do, coupled with more than a year away. any family for the up school that he had known. you never was more than any wardrobe. drug, so the book a deal if people use scrap materials and whatevers at hand to rig up all kinds of stuff from household items to pump action. squid guns richer for my freshman longer there must be a fellow much more poor. we're still the best part is people want to watch millions of viewers spend hours seeing how a person they've never met and who's half way round the world. assembled the contraption. no one else needs to be taught. trickery. arrange to fill her in which

could just more of my feet. when you minute cities like user g was looking at the club li for future pushing, which perfectly still could you ah, welcome back. eyebrows raised the head of tomorrow's cop. 26 summers in glasgow. embarrassed johnson's goldman sachs employee turned u. k. chancellor richey snack used his budget to cut taxes on car driving little under sledge taxes on champagne. joining me from suffolk in england is an award winning advisor to governments around the world. the director of primal policy research in macroeconomics and peasant and thanks so much for coming back on big argument going underground headquarters. i have to say, because when you watch the television, they're saying, you know, not a bad budget and a lot of slight of hand. some were saying, you know, one and 4 children are in poverty in this country, but i guess it's called 26. so i got to start by asking you,

why is they worth johnson's chancellor ritchie swag, incentivizing airplane travel and car driving? i think that's one of the big disappointment that me she said i key seems to think that the financial system and the treasury fits of heart from something called the ecosystem, the environment. and it doesn't, it's very much a part of it. so what the show here is that the graph, the gravity of the climate breakdown of the crisis that we face of climate breakdown and biodiversity that gravity hasn't yet reached him. and that's extraordinary wiring boys. johnson had to sign off on this and his wife certainly is a keen environmentalist. ringback to be fetch the conservative government, they are going quite a lot further than we expected them to you and we have to ruin that, that market touch. it was one of the 1st to raise awareness of climate crisis at the united nation many years ago. so it is possible for them to be aware of this,

but yes, not undertake the policy, a reforms that a needed to actually adapt asked to this threat. well, he did say the minimum wage is going up. i mean, is that emblematic of the flights of and this wage boost ensures we're making work and keepers on track to meet our target to end low pay by the end of this parliament without really figuring out what effect that'll have on say the lowest wages of the tax national insurance. so some people, some people on some of the poorest households will see their income's rising. but then the total effect of the other reforms, the reforms to the benefit system means that their incomes will in fact fall. so it's, it's a really difficult thing to untangle and what he is trying to do, what i think is interesting is that this conservative government is trying to cover up if you like,

the mistakes that have been made of the last 11 years since dark. george osborne's budget in 2010 am and it cuts to the public sector that has been inflicted since then. and del, enormous damage to the economy. then to get in to try and cover up the back there to begin to try and reverse that. and the j as in ways that are unfortunate, still quite shallow. so for example, expenditure on education is going up, but it's intended to reach the same level. it was in 201210 level of investment in 2010 by 2024. so it's have hours they are trying to improve on those cut so that that austerity it's, it's really minimal. yeah. but i mean, you know, he is cutting the bank levy surcharge by infect 660 percent. why do you think he's doing that? we're getting 2 thirds of those on the welfare universal credit,

which he cut money from. no extra benefit from something called a taper. our international views were wonder wouldn't earth we're talking about. but why? i mean, is he trying to contact his own bank so that they remember him when they drive by british debt? this is a populist government with an atc majority and they want to maintain that majority in those constituencies where there are no for a lot of poor people and very few goldman sachs bankers. but at the same time, they of course are in hoc to the city of london and to their donors. and who are, you know, we're not from the red hole seats. so they've got to balance this, this, these, these different challenges. and they finding that difficult. but for me, the really worrying thing action is that actually what they're doing is damaging

the economy further. so from a macroeconomic perspective, you can do give, you know, tax breaks to the bankers, but by increasing taxes on average earners. essentially by, by building up the level of taxation to 36 percent of g d p. you are in fact taking money out of the economy, you're taking spending money out of the economy. and simultaneously wage is not rising relative to re inflation. so we see a real cut in incomes. this combination of falling and stagnating comes on the one hand and tax revenues being taken out of the economy on the other. while investment levels of investment remain low and all gain to remain low as long as the threat of interest rates holes. that means that the macroeconomy is not going to expand is not going to be increased economic activity over the next period. and that poorly because the poor people spend everybody, they are when the rich think,

keep it in the bank or by offshore property arguably, you know, we talked on this program, sheffield, but also because rec, such a course, the ongoing impacted brexton. the british economy is going to deepen the damage or failure to exploit bricks that of your brakes. a tier of history, sheffield. this is vito said, the city of long cost, the british economy, 4 and a half trillion between 9095201570000 pounds, a personal tune of years of output. i mean, we've set it on this bro. instead of reducing taxes on the city of london, oh, would it be better for the economy for it to be burned down? i have to be honest, the, you know that the city of london is a major sosa tax revenues for the government. and so, yeah, that showed it isn't the chevy university. so it was clear that if you add it all in all the hidden subsidies to the city of london, you add in all, obviously there we have the bailouts from january. they are a net loss to this economy. there is no point in them being that's true,

but that's also true for the globally can action. it would work. yes. so, but, i mean, i, i'm, as you know, i'm, i'm, i'm well known as the fact that i think the city of london is unhelpful to the stability of the british economy. but, you know, it's, as it is, and the government is determined to support it. and to defend it, as is indeed the governor of the bank of england and, and at the same time neglecting, if you like the real economy where things are made and grown and expanded. and that neglect is going to make it harder to keep land as an attractive venue for, for the global financial, for those active in global financial system. what do you think of how the mainstream television media cover budgets in this country? there's been a lot of criticism of the stimulus package in the united states and barrel of

politics. so as they will face trouble over here. i mean, people going, this is a, sounded laboratory type of budget which, you know, he's showing himself to be a keynesian. and so on and he's, he's a, he's not voucher, right? this is a left wing butchered. well, i mean, on the one hand that is being fed, and it's also the case at tory back bench, is a very unhappy with the level of tax rights. and this is a tax and spend government and by the way i, i resent the implication that it's keynesian pitts cancer is not a tax then. but the fact of the matter is that this is a government that is behaving very differently from previous conservative governments. and i think the media doesn't fully understand how to handle it, but it's definitely, you know, there's definitely a populist government that is trying to appeal to much broadest way of the electric then with taxes and jumping and beer. i mean,

because it was clear that when the minister was asked on television about whether this will raise the standard of living, they didn't want to be drawn on it. and one resolution foundation, things said that everyone is going to be worse off in the next few years. yet, that's true. i mean, that there's a lot of contradictions analyst. there are a lot of contradictions in what this government is trying to do. but i would argue that it is popular in the sense that it's trying to deal away. and this distance itself from the 2010 to an 2016 torrie government under george osborne and distance itself from that kind of policies that were attach. right? we've really difficult to separate yourself from the david cameron government, which is reduced expenditure to, i mean, the costs were more than more than napoleonic wars. well, the point is that, i mean, i think it's ridiculous that they are pretending that there are different, there are different political party, but i've seen political parties change their,

their colors in the past. and this is what they're trying to do well with us before labor, privatization time. again, i know you advised those governments at of the you to advise mass privatization just to help our viewers here in britain, because they'll see the officer budget responsibility. what is, what is that because it's treated with such respect, my journalist and i think you tweet it out as well. danny blanch flora, a friend of the show was on the amount you policy committee said the officer budget responsibility is repeatedly got to say, group productivity growth, wrong time and time and time again. and yet journalists go, let's go straight here for more information on every once in the future for everyday life in this country. well, i think in it, i agree with you the o. b. r is incredibly orthodox in the way it approaches these that the british economy and has made an awful lot of wrong predictions is danny blanche has shown an i think it is beginning to lose credibility with media because it got so much

wrong in the spring of this year when it projected said so things were going to be far worse and they've turned out to be. so i think you're being a bit unfair to the media because they do, they have noticed, i noticed this and i think it's quite ha, under its new management for the o. b, r to uphold its reputation as, as a sound, a sounding board for the government. we've all known all along the u. r is actually just an extension of her majesty's treasury. there's never believe they say they really detailed detail, 5 year forecast for the economy. the forecast company, the budget, a corporate via by good tax, the very standard statement we got from we obee are you being very kind to journalists, i have to say just finally quickly on the aid and we've covered on this program. our aid has been used to arguably a al qaeda link rebels in syria. it's used as

a arm of the foreign office here and even the intelligence services they persuaded him to say, look, we will go back to point 7 percent aid. so that a more aid can be used as a foreign policy tool by government as the host of the, of, of cop trench 6. and this climate conference, the government has to pressure other governors into coming up with a $100000000000.00 a year, which has been promised to poor countries to help tackle climate breakdown. and the fact they've cut their own or source their own. grants to poor countries is as proved incredibly embarrassing and tories in the house of lords have objected to the story party has objected to the so they beginning to pull back up me. but you know, this again is just an example of the kind of chaotic and very difficult to understand a politics of this, of this government bird. it's, but it's cost of this package of, on the $1.00 hand,

contracting the economy on the other hand, or, you know, doing a you turn on aid to low income countries. and certainly just ignoring the, the security threat to the british people of climate breakdown. and the extraordinary thing is that in the opinion polls it is still maintaining public support. i'm heather. thank you. that's over the show will be back on monday. when we discussed cop $26.00 with britain's former climate change minister and 11 years, he was sort of a month when wiki leaks. julie in the science published redacted hundreds of thousands of us diplomatic cables, detailing deceit on a global scale until then keep in touch by social media and let us know if you think this week to london. the challenge court hearing was a u. k. sponsored show trial ah, national financial survival guide, liquid assets are those that you can convert into cash quite easily. but keep in

mind, know as the to me and to inflation datawatch guys report with a lot of grace time to apologize. joe biden, me to manual macro on for the 1st time since the announcement administrative submarine deal, which many in paris, so as a stab in the back. also this, our doctors and funds will not budget cuts from the shortages and the lack of hospital beds is comes as top line to still claim the country's health care system is on the brink of collapse is kind of takes hold. once again, i see that it's the government is to blame for the shortage of medical personnel. france is the only country in the world that's been cutting funding during the pandemic. medical staff, the outraged brightness and ready to quit over

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