in the united states, in jail as well. thank you very much for holding you back on the show. i'm, you know, obviously you would expect them to say that, right. and they're appealing be the 1st instance decisions i can, you know, based on extensive medical evidence that by the way, corresponds exactly to the findings that you know, we can to, with my own medical team, visit the julian assumption bel martian bank of may 2019, he's in no position to be extra either to a prison system. you know, as the one in the us. and, you know, i just like to take a step back here. the actual discussion is that he should not even be in prison. why? why is he being, you know, and neither in the 1st place, given that he's not committed any crime was, you know, this is what is better. uh, better as you know, he's a flight risk because he sought to political asylum and gained it in london. and all his journalism, as it were, does not protect him from the u. s. espionage act. that's what judgment as

a breakthrough said, that's why it's only as help. that's a consideration. i'm really glad you mentioned that because that's the scandal in this case. if you look at that 1st instance judgement, that was, that's not a victory for the julian of sanji. you know, campbell for during the suns himself or for press freedom, one for that matter. it is a truck because in a little preceding prejudicial, always goes through 2 or 3 instance by not extra riding him in the 1st madison court level. what that did legally speaking, is that he puts the us in the position to appeal. otherwise, have you been extradited? then julia sans would have appealed and he would have brought all those questions of press freedom of political offence, political motivation in that prosecution. the attentive fascination of kidnapping all those things, he would have brought to the high court level, maria f judges, which much stronger independence and expertise. but it was quite smart. i the u. s

. the u. k. 2, to have it arranged the other one, so they don't extroverted him in the 1st instance they, they basically confirmed a whole narrative about you espionage act, acquisitions of everything, and set the precedent criminalizing basic the journalist for that matter. but they will only bring those questions to the appeals court that they want to have to consider. but just to the us under state of health and their prison conditions. and now mind you, their present conditions is absolutely in their control. they can make diplomatic guarantees at any stage of to any extent to neutralize those concerns. they can offer medical services, they can offer no guarantees when they got to the conditions of retention, which makes it very difficult from a high court. now to refuse extradition. yes, james, the excuse. he seemed to be saying we have a psychiatric asylum. we can throw julian sans into if he has mental problems once, extradited in, given what you just said, is it send some of a wiki leaks, lawyer edwards. gerald, you see to me in a way,

excepting the criminalization of journalism and appealing to the judges, all right, and burnett that look, he shouldn't be extradited because of that early a judgement. and this is what it is you, you know, the global sales, you know, cases of torture all around the world. isn't it more normal for a defense barrister to be claiming this court isn't even something that you me, should we respected you already criminalize journalism, your judicial system? we shouldn't accept anything from this court. well, the question is that the moral stands for the question and how much is that gonna help julian? the sanction the legal proceedings? and yes, it is a scandal batch, you know, the espionage acting, the u. s. in itself is a scandal. the official secrets act in the u. k. in itself is a scandal because both of them criminalized the disclosure of secret information irrespective of public interest. the high court cast changed and they can certainly they can certainly, you know,

be reasonable and apply the law to the the medical states that you know junior passengers and they know exactly what the prison conditions are like in the us. as far as i know, the defense team has also crossed the peel. it's just that the cross appeal which then brings all those other questions before, but that obviously will only be dealt with if the u. s. successful in it's. so before we get to that stage, just to be clear as things stand right now in london, if you were about to suddenly, i don't know that show me a t v center. reuters journalist being gun down by helicopter gunship. both of us could be tortured. we could be subject to a u. s. secretary of state claiming that we were a non state or sale actors worthy of assassination on the streets of london. that, that precedent is all already been said and could be extradited. that that's all fine. it's just the suicide risk. well, you know,

think about the murder of george floyd, which was recorded on video and only because of that video check that, that, that clip. we had the evidence that george floyd was actually murdered and there was no, you know, that was not a medical crisis. it was not a case of self defense or some, it was just no, no, just the cache. and buddy back a, a public protests against santa bullies police brutality which, you know, the authority is not being able to avoid prosecuting those official. unfortunately, in the case of collateral murder, there are simply has been a completely different narrative of the u. s. going out. parents and you know, fighting terrorism and so on, that it's very, very difficult for an average citizen who doesn't have privileged access to, you know, what actually happens behind the curtains of policy making. they actually believe that narrative, very difficult for a late lay people to actually understand that full picture. i

you said, believe what the mainstream press this calendar. you know, when you started your special united nations investigation into the case of judy and assange, you were, you weren't alone there, lots of supporters of judy and sons, but there weren't so many groups to day. every major human rights and free speech organization in the world. a backs your allegations arguably have. why then do you think it's not a big a mainstream media story? it is here in r t. i cannot speak for him. i think it's a scandal that it isn't because, i mean, this is the absolutely key case on press freedom on freedom of expression, but far beyond that on human rights and human dignity on the integrity of our rule of law. institutions of our traditional use to independence, traditionally is the, you know, the transparency, right, to know that people have

a right to know what their governments are doing with the tax money and the power that we, the people delegates to our government. this is about our rights, you know, it's about your ability to oversee, to control and you know, the integrity of, of, of your government. because it's not, becomes a crime. we're doing an essentially done, you know, nothing that he has been accused except receiving and publishing evidence for less. you have been proven. you know, this whole section allegations have been dropped by sweden, not because it's, you know, expired or something like this. but because they didn't have enough evidence to even charge them of any offense whatsoever. after 9 years, this was instrumental iced to demonize. you know, this, the thing about human having blood is, i mean, it's just ridiculous claim because we know that the u. s. government for, you know,

what an a decade has not been able to advance a single case individual who may have been put in danger because of those publications. even know now that during the central lot, even the 1st person who published those under acted files. but he made them accessible on we can use as well after they have been made accessible by a passer being published by to guardian and stayed in the weekly journal for talking in germany. and she did so only after he had taken contact with the white house and tried to do damage control because of the leaks by those other actors. but what we know is that the evidence that she has, that's not about people being threatened, that people being portrait, people being great. people being murdered, you know, under front of her running camera at these people have never been trusted. have never been how to account and so this is really what this is about. it's about

protecting to impunity. criminals of corrupt politicians. this is what this is about. so we want to intimidate the person who has come up with a general idea how to use the internet to allow whistleblowers to remain anonymous while transmitting. you know, millions of files that prove a government misconduct. obviously if that proliferates and you have only one which weeks that we have $15000.00, which leaks around the world, then you know, the kind of security establishment, but they're secrecy. they can pack up and leave with their business model. they really have to start then applying democratic principles being subject to democratic oversights, respect the rule of law and dust, not today's reality. his finally am, i don't know whether that means the journalist himself, their minds are arbitrarily detained. but i don't know whether you caught glimpses

of julian assange at the trial this week. he doesn't look well. his partner selim, or as his father john shipped and they, they will look worried. what will it mean for whistleblowers and publishers in the global south on torture? nobody detention what would it mean for, for german v if he, if he does, it's probably die. now when we start asking this question, if he dies in london under the jurisdiction of british authorities here. well, if you see a guy in prison, he has effectively been tortured to death. that's the reality of it. i mean, i am not exaggerate. it has been working in areas of war. i have long history of visiting prisoners. i visited during their sons and i have to specialize forensic doctors with me in a psychiatrist evaluating him for hours, and no be all independently from each other kendra's conclusions. at that time his life was in danger, and he sure enough, a few days after we left the prison he entered the downward spiral. during the

sound is not mentally ill. yes, he has a slight form of autism, as you know many people do, but he is very resilient, intelligent man. and, and so he does not belong in a mental institution. right? so if he has a mental issue now it's because of abuse that he has suffer and you cannot, you cannot get someone to recover from torture. by continuing, she continued to torture him, and that's exactly what they do. they isolate him, they keep him in that limbo. busy and justice put his record straight for everybody doing this and he's not serving a sentence. he's not even accused of a any anything that would be criminal. he is being held in extradition detention to, as you said, to prevent his escape in case he should be extra bit young. but he does not need to be in belmar prison for that. even if you, even if we assume for the purpose of the argument that yes back extradition

proceeding is the did image, we have to somehow secure his presence. he can be in house or us. that's what it is . it was the p. no say he was protected by the u. k. government to put him in a bill on my does. hatcher visited him, the brought embassy. and as soon as he, you know, a doctor, a test that, that he had some problems to concentrate and had slight forms of amnesia. he was fumbled out, maybe not even facing a judge due. nathan, who has a great, you know, medical harm has been caused to him in the last decade to that, to a constant. you know, i solution defamation and abuse, and up i come from anxiety that he suffers and he's being isolated, absolutely unnecessary, and therefore unlawful. so she is continuously also arbitrarily detained. it would be a tragedy if she lost his life in those circumstances. he went special opportunity

. thank you. thank you very much. after the break, the queen putin and she may not be going, but why did the budget of the boards, johnson government, just sabotage. net 0 targets ahead of the weekends called 26 conference. well, the to more can we have about to have going underground ah ah, we're empowering ourselves to be more efficient or quicker with our transactions. we can make mobile payments from ourselves. the truth is that every device is a potential entry point for security attack. i think i intentionally with anything but only eventually there's malware on

that thousands, maybe sometimes millions each day. they use the cyber. they use the technology as an extension of traditional crime. artificial intelligence has not many main threat . this is due to the 3 laws of robotics. one of the things that's happening at the mini cyber implants right now, i'd be where is it really worried about it? most people would equally be you can put a chip in my brain. so there has been a lot of progress from the hacker side using ai and using other advanced technologies. there has been on the defensive side while come back i browser, raise the head of tomorrow's cop, 26 summers in glasgow, and boris johnson's goldman sachs employee to and you k, chancellor richey snack, used his budget to cut taxes on car driving little under sledge taxes on champagne

. joining me that from suffolk in england is an award winning advisor to governments around the world, the director of primal policy research in macroeconomics and peasant. and thanks so much for coming back on big argument going underground headquarters. i have to say, because when you watch the television, they're saying, you know, not a bad budgets and a lot of slight of hand. some were saying, you know, one and 4 children are in poverty in this country, but i guess it's called 26. so i got to start by asking you, why is i worth johnson, chancellor. richie select incentivizing airplane travel and car driving. i think that's one of the big disappointment is she should, i keep seems to think that the financial system and the treasury fits. ringback of from something called the ecosystem, the environment and it doesn't, it's very much a part of it. so i want to show you that the graph, the gravity of the climate breakdown of the crisis that we face of time at breakdown and biodiversity that gravity hasn't yet reached him. and that's

extraordinarily worrying. boys. johnson had to sign off on this and his wife certainly is a keen environmentalist to be fetch the conservative government. they are going quite a lot further than we expected them to you and we have to ruin that that market such it was one of the 1st to raise awareness of climate crisis at the united nation many years ago. so it is possible for them to be aware of this, but yes, not to undertake the policy, a reforms that a needed to actually adapt asked to this threat. well, he did say the minimum wage is going up. i mean, is that emblematic of flights of hand this wage boost ensures we're making work and keep us on track to me, don't talk to him, lou. pay by the end of this parliament without really figuring out what effect that'll have on say, the lowest wages of attacks, actual insurance. so some of the paper, some people on some of the poorest households will see their incomes rising. but

then the total effect of the other reforms, the reforms to the benefit system means that their incomes will in fact fall. so it's, it's a really difficult thing to untangle and what he is trying to do. and what i think is interesting is that this conservative government is trying to cover up if you like, the mistakes that have been made over the last 11 years since dark george osborne's budget in 2010. and it cuts to the public sector that have been inflicted since then and done enormous damage to the economy. then getting into child coverage back, they took the beginning to try and reverse that. and again, in ways that are unfortunate, still quite shallow. so for example, expenditure on education is going up, but it's intended to reach the same levels. it was in 2012, 10, the level of investment in 2010 by 2024. so, and have are,

as they are trying to improve on those cut. so that, that austerity it's bits, reli minimal. yeah, but i mean i. e is cutting the bank levy surcharge by infect 660 percent. why do you think he's doing that? we're getting 2 thirds of those on the welfare universal credit which he cut money from. no extra benefit from the school. the taper, our international viewers will wonder, wouldn't earth we're talking about. but why? i mean, is he trying to contact his own bank so that they remember him when they try and buy british debt? what is it doing? this is a populace to government with an atc majority and they want to maintain that majority in those constituencies where there are no for a lot of poor people are very few goldman sachs bankers. but at the same time,

they of course are in hoc to the city of london and to their donors. and who are, you know, we are not from the red hall seats. so they've got hidden balance this, these, these different challenges. and they finding that difficult, but for me, the really worrying thing actually is that actually what they're doing is damaging the economy further. so from the macroeconomic perspective, you can do give, you know, tax breaks to the bankers, but by increasing taxes on average earners essentially by, by building up the level of taxation to 36, g d, p. you are in fact taking money out of the economy of taking spending money out of the economy and simultaneously wage is not rising relative to reinstate. so we see a real cut in incomes. this combination of falling and stagnating comes on the one hand and tax revenues been taken out of the economy on the other. while investment

levels of investment remain low and all gain to remain as long as the threat of interest rate sells. that means that the macroeconomy is not going to expand is not going to be increased economic activity over the next period. and that was because the poor as people spend every penny they have the rich thing, keep it in the bank or buy of your property arguably, you know, we talked on this program, sheffield, but also because of bricks. it was the ongoing impact of breakfast on the bay. she called me is going to deepen the damage or failing to exploit bricks. if you're a brick, the tier of the sleep, sheffield is over his dd said the city of london cost, the british economy $4.00 and a half trillion between 19952015. $70000.00 pounds, a personal tune of years of output. i mean, we've set it on this for instead of reducing taxes on the city of london. so would it be better for the economy for it to be burned down?

i have to be honest to you know, that the city of london is a major source of tax revenues for the government. and so yeah, that's heard. it isn't the chevy university. so it was clear that if you add it all in all the hidden subsidies to the city of london, you add in all, obviously there we have the bailouts from graduate. they are a net loss to this economy. there is no point in them being here. that's true, but that's also true for the globally can action it. well, yes, so, but i mean, i, i, as you know, i'm, i'm, i'm well known as the fact that i think the city of london is unhelpful to the stability of the british economy. but you know, it's, as it is, and the government is determined to support it and to defend it, as is indeed the governor of the bank of england. and, and at the same time neglecting, if you like the real economy where things are made and grown. and expanded,

and that neglect is going to make it harder to keep land as an attractive venue for, for the global financial, for those active in global financial system. what do you think of how the mainstream television media cover budgets in this country? there's been a lot of criticism of the stimulus package in the united states and barrel of politics, as they will face trouble over here. i mean, people going, this is a sanded labor torrie type of budget, which, you know, he's showing himself to be a keynesian. and so on and he's, he's, he's not far too. right. this is a left wing budget. well, i mean on the one hand that is being fed and it's also the case said, tory back bench is a very unhappy with the level of tax, right. and this is a tax and spend go and by the way i, i resent the implication that it's keynesian kits, kansas is not

a texas bender. but the fact of the matter is that this is a government that is behaving very differently from previous conservative governments. and i think the media don't fully understand how to handle it, but it's definitely, you know, there's definitely a populist government that is trying to appeal to much broadest way of the electric then with thrashing taxes on champagne and beer. i mean, because it was clear that when the minister was asked on television about whether this will raise the standard of living, they didn't want to be drawn on it. and one resolution foundation, things said that everyone is going to be worse off in the next few years. yeah, that's true. i mean, that there's a lot of contradictions analyst. there are a lot of contradictions in what this government is trying to do. but i would argue that it is popular in a sense that it's trying to deal away. and this distance itself from the 2010 to an

2016 torrie government under georgia, osborne and distance itself from that kind of policies that were attach, right? we really difficult to separate yourself from the david cameron government, which is reduced expenditure to, i mean, the cuts were more than more than napoleonic wars. well, the point is that, i mean, i think it's ridiculous that they, them pretending that there are different, there are different political party, but i seem political parties change their, their colors in the past. and this is what they're trying to do well with us before labor privatization found them. again, i know you advise those government or the, you to advise mass privatization just to help our viewers here in britain because they'll see the office of budget responsibility. what is, what is that because it's treated with such respect, my journalist and i think you treated that as well. danny blanch flora, a friend of the show was on the monetary policy committee, said the officer budget responsibility is repeatedly got to say, group productivity growth,

wrong time and time and time again. and yet journalists go, let's go straight here for more information on every want for the future, for everyday life in this country. well, i think in, as i agree with you, the o. b. r is incredibly orthodox in the way it approaches these that the british economy and has made an awful lot of wrong predictions is danny blanche has shown an i think it is beginning to lose credibility with media because it got so much wrong in the spring of this year when it predicted said so things were going to be far worse than they've turned out to be. so i think you're being a bit unfair to the media because they do, they have noticed, i notice this and i think it's quite ha, under its new management for the o. b, r to uphold its reputation as, as a sound, a sounding board for the government. we've all known all along the u. r is actually just an extension of her majesty's treasury. there's never been

a crazy retail until 5 years for god for the economy. the forecast company, the budget, a corporate mm. bye, good tax. the very standard statement we got for we, we are you being very kind to journalists, i have to say just finally quickly on the aid and we've covered on this program. our aid is being used to arguably a al qaeda link rebels in syria. it's used as an arm of the foreign office here, and even the intelligence services they persuaded him to say, look, we will go back to point 7 percent aid. so that a more aid can be used as a foreign policy tool by government as the host of the, of, of cop trench 6. and it's climate conference. the government has to pressure other governors into coming up with a $100000000000.00 a year, which has been promised to poor countries to help tackle climate breakdown. and the fact they've cut their own source, their own grants to poor countries is as proved incredibly embarrassing

and tories in the house of lords of the objection to the story party has objected to the so they beginning to pull back up me. but you know, this again is just an example of the kind of chaotic and very difficult to understand a politics of this, of this government bird. it's, but it's cost of this package of, on the $1.00 hand, contracting the economy on the other hand, or, you know, doing a you turn on aid to low income countries. and certainly just ignoring the, the security threat to the british people of climate breakdown. and the extraordinary thing is that in the opinion polls it is still maintaining public support. i'm heather. thank you. that's over the show. we'll be back on monday when we discuss cop $26.00 with britain's former climate change minister and 11 years who have thought of a month when wiki leaks, julian assange published redacted hundreds of thousands of us diplomatic cables,

detailing deceit on a global scale until then keep in touch by social media and let us know if you think this week's london fans court hearing was a u. k. sponsored show trial ah, prices are just going up and people are hiding it by serving smaller portions have the same prices. we've seen this at the grocery store with packaged goods packaged cookies packaged toiletries, like tooth paste, and mouthwash coming in smaller packages, but the same price of people haven't noticed it when things are getting out of control. ah, if you want something done, right, do it yourself. the acronym d i y, i do it yourself, has now become the name for a new genre of online videos. we do a couple of more than

a year away. i need some acres. yup. so the deal is no one you have to was more or less did any more that up. so the book a deal, if people use scrap materials and whatever is at hand to rig up all kinds of stuff from household items to pump action, squid guns, richer company for my voucher longer stuff must be out of my room, like more pool with the best part is people want to watch millions of viewers spend hours seeing how a person they've never met and who's half way around the world, assembles the contraption. no one else needs to arrange a check in which could just more have my key when you mine. yeah. cities like user d, looking at the clock, literally pushing 40 because you still couldn't ah

ah, the testers pour on to the streets of rome, demanding that will lead us take an action to stop climate change as the italian capital hoses, the g 20 summit doctors in france warm, that budget cuts the leading to staff shortages as top scientists claim the national health care systems on the brink of collapse with the pandemic taking hold . once again, the key cause it's the government and the blame for the shortage of medical personnel fronts is the only country in the world that's been cutting funding during the past deputy medical stuff, the outraged pilots ready to quit over a rubbish paul's up in new york is sanitation workers protest against.