were infected and what was it a m p for file sent to your whatsapp. how did they do this? well actually, i was shocked to know that it was really amazing for me. i always knew that there might be someone listening, but this kind of hacking is really vicious. they can manipulate your phone, that they can download content on upload content from it. so it's really vicious software, make phone calls and messages, everything for my part of the 0, click get a tech they, i don't know what they sent and they were able to send a message. i am message which is for i phone my phone. my device was on my phone and they were able to download on it this software and february of this year and they were and this software is continually continuously manipulating my phone than downloading data,

or uploading it or changing things on the phone. so it was really amazing for me. yeah, the, the israelis only allowed 3 g in the occupied territories to g. i understand in the, in gaza defacto photos of your children were on the phone. as you say, they can put things on to the phone. in a sense, i mean, edward snowden, you know, a fleet to moscow for his own protection after telling us all our phones are bugged while you are so surprised, despite obama's denials at the time. of course, when snowden revealed it to us, well it was only the time because you know, he'd been under continuous from the israel government for the past 1015 years as civil society organizations, human rights organizations working and occupied palestinian territories. and this kind of attack is all it is just gives them indication how far they are willing to go. when we discover this infiltration our device on the 16th of october.

and of course they knew from the 1st moment that we discovered this infection. and they tried to stigmatize us as terrorist organizations in order to justify this or this vicious effect on our privacy for the past 2 years. when you have right now, you can be arrested at any moment because been against the defense minister says you are a terrorist group like at m, e a, the defense for children, international union, and women's committee, the union of agricultural work committee. the un, obviously, against this, you think there it's suspicious that the bugging by this group and the regulator of n s o in israel is been against why you should suddenly say your terrorist just shortly after the discovery that your phones have been act. well, it really easy for us because if you look at the timeline that was like putting the wagon in front of the horse was like, okay, we did this because they have

a nice ations. what day you have, what kind of evidence the documents that they have supply has been lea 2 plus $97.00 to magazine and, and they all the investigative journalism on it. and it was turned out to be a bogus document that there was no concrete evidence the, our partners for many years there. okay. and governments have been offered this document. and after careful review, it has no concrete evidence against the organ i have you seen at 73 page dorsey i seen by island foreign minister. he said he wasn't convinced. have you seen the 73 pages indicating public online? so it's quite politically document, quite preposterous accusations, and anyone with the i think a sane way of thinking would say, okay, how can you say that this is evidence?

so can i say? so i think this is one of the main problems, not even a single thing. it is correct. or even if there are some facts that they have taken from our website or from our facebook page is then these facts have been manipulated and interpreted in ways that really i think in this 3 year old would have done this kind of interpretation. obviously israel did denies that symptomatic of israel's fear of the population front for the liberation of palestine. they, they get the b a l b than a mass. right? that was they trying to link organizations with pinion part is specially the p f b. but we've been quite open quite well that we are non partisan organizations. we operate according to palestinians. we've been registered for 30 plus years. we've had numerous or external. so we have so many levels of scrutiny on us and

being palestinians under occupation, operating the civil society partnering with international organizations and european countries. and all of those levels of scrutiny from the p a from everything never found. a single misuse of money or a single misconduct by our organizations. so to come out of the blue, like there and accusing go guys, asians of funding terrorism. they didn't even get the correct their fax, correct. they said 200000000 euros over 70 years for the 6 organization. that's also not correct. and this is quite basic for everyone to see. we're a small center academic center. we have 7 employees. we publish studies. our annual budget is around the course that'll come $1000000.00. so it's quite small. most of it goes for researchers and research purposes. as we understood along the is the declaration loss of our own assumption is that to cover on

the grave, human rights violations that and so, and this is also under the scrutiny many gas is a so it's quite a close ties and the relation between n s a m yeah, obviously wasn't forget, the occupation continues a 13 year old mom and dad that was shot in the stomach east of nablus just on sunday night and violence is continuing. but in fairness to n s l group, they say, as we stated in the past and our group does not operate the product itself, and we are not privy to the details of individuals monitored does throwing it back to benny gant. when you talk about the money that does that mean that you use your phone to talk to europe in union authorities, which means that technically, the israelis was spying on european union information and also talk to the u. s. embassy. i talked to european countries. i talked to diplomat, i talked to humorous defenders in palestine and abroad,

so all of that was compromised and all of that was fine. i don't know how many people have been put in danger because of a little abroad. and i really have no idea about the extent of violation of privacy on me and my family. first of all, i'm husband and father for 3 small kids headed 7 years old, a 25 year old. when we take yourself together on my phone, we have our moments together as a family and me and my wife and, and go together. we also take our pictures on this phone. so that was really intrusive. i communicate with my brothers, my sister's outside my lawyers in the united states on different issues. i communicate with them over this one. so all of this has been doing the palestinian authority knows about this. i know mom and a boss is b a. we haven't gold elections, of course, in the crosshairs,

because of this killing of ms. urbanatto balance union activists. they arrested you . it's mohammad abbas complicit in this pegasus spyware. in a way could even blackmail by his railways, by putting information on as well. i don't think the p 80 is treated by any better than any palestinian tweeted. i don't think that they wouldn't give them secrets for a security is open to anything, but this does not for my father exempt them form their responsibilities. of course, we've been out industry since the beginning of my friend has all been in late june and was also a candidate for the counselors that council elections. we've been demanding good justice and we've been demanding demographic change. we've been bending accountability for the security forces, violations, but to slice

a system between the embassy. controlling for finance is committing human rights violations against them. because they have 2 cases with quotes. and we also have the ailey because we've been designated as a zation of being arrested, being prosecuted, being vandalized offices. so, the question on william reality with living here, i mean, was your 1st reaction. i know that there was a, this is really military, a 200 cyber warfare unit, the if say no record specific violations in the letter ever took place. there was a letter by whistleblower saying they would reserve claim to use data to extort black mail and turn palestinians into collaborators. do you think this is affecting protest and defiance of israel violations of un security council?

this kind of pegasus spyware could be used this way. i think that is involved in a deep operation that's been going on in years trying to do social engineering of the palestinian community. part of their social engineering also is what kind of activities are allowed. what kind of activities are not allowed? what kind of civil society and so get self organization for palestinian is allowed one time isn't. i think this process has been going on for years. they've used all the means and using a vicious and malicious man will affect our homes and our data and trying to get all the things that we are doing that also protected by law or defenders. we are part of civil society. we work according to dimensional material law, international law, and the palestinian laws. i want to just ration from the p and the we where we

submit our annual reports to it. and we operate with the highest levels of governance and accountability and of course ability as possible, that transparency. so and we actually challenge also there's really organizations that usually defaming of like and g o monitor to have the same levels of governance and transparency as we have. but unfortunately this, this is one percent of opinions. we don't have any rights with patient. there is no accountability to the crimes committed against us whether they were cyber crime, whether they were against national citizens, like my, like myself or some movie, was also a french citizen who has id vote. so he's now facing even the quotation from the country. so it's quite crazy, this context by booty, by ability,

these really is obviously deny any wrong doing with thank you. thank you. thanks as you enter. so group after the break, the international rules based order of nato nations. we investigate us depravity after a guantanamo bay detainee describes torture. had cia black sites for the very 1st time in court. all of them all coming up about 2 of going underground. ah they would same with every passing day were allowed to openly discuss fewer and fewer topics. events on capitol hill on january 6 is one of them. what happened

that day is a 3rd rail. was it a riot or an insurrection? even asking, this is inflammatory? it shouldn't be, ah, if we can now look into people's minds, read their thoughts. the question then is a what kind of consequence we, we could take from this. i think you take the example fly. it would prevent us from lying, wouldn't be able to lie anymore if everything becomes transparent, but what we're thinking. mm. welcome back. a guantanamo court is heard of firsthand account of alleged torture. it see a black sites for the very 1st time allegations that have been condemned by senior u. s. military jurors. the so called high value detainees, magic con, has been in caea custody for 18 years, and is the only u. s. resident to have been held at guantanamo bay u. s. detention camp. he's now been given a 26. he a jail sentence after admitting to tara charges under plea deal. joining me now

from new york is nancy hollander, the lawyer of to guantanamo bay detainees, and was portrayed by the oscar winning actress jodie foster and award winning film the more attention. and in this segment view a discretion is advisors will be discussing the treatment of prisoners, which some may find disturbing. welcome back to going underground. last time you are on obviously with a director the more italian with the oscar winning. jodie foster that was about mama gould sly, he get mo, guantanamo bay and occupied cuba. still open a year into the biden administration. and apparently in the news, whether the by no administration will censor the lawyer for abu zubaydah completely innocent, which is another case which the supreme court is right. hearing. who is mud con? my should con, i was picked up. you know, i don't remember he, i think he was very young. ultimately, he cooperated. he made a plea deal,

but that was a quite a few years ago. and then it took a long time for him to be sentenced. and he was sentenced by 8 members of the military military officers in marines, air force, navy officers. and he, the, based on what his plea was. and what he was charged with their obligation was to sentence him to at least 25 years 25 to i don't remember the top and 40. they sentenced him to 26 years. but then at the request of his defense counsel, ah, who asked that they asked for clemency. they did. and 7 of the 8 wrote a hand written magnificent letter saying this was a stain on america. um became they didn't quite say he was tortured,

but they said his what high his treatment came close to the torture in other countries that we don't permit. ah, this is horrible and he should have clemency. ah, is quite an astounding letter also he has and he, his plea deal is secret. so we don't really know what it is and, but he could be released soon. this is the 1st have a detainee is, has testified on, on torture. you have the quote, a stain on the moral fiber of america. what, what is it? do we know what it is that these 7 offices and i have to say there's one descending opinion. i don't know what the other officer thought of just too many. what kind of torture and tortures would no mean use of the supreme court and in the abs of a, the case of course was used in the senate committees investigation. what did the constitute? well, that that was the other significant may be more significant. part in this case is

that his testimony was public. and me generally nobody's been allowed to say what happened to them in the black science. um they're, they're what they say, what my client has said to me, abraham a mouse re, is classified. they've never been allowed to explain what their feelings are. this is the 1st time that everyone got to hear, ah, in anywhere what these horrible things that were done. did them go back and look at the 16th century england and you'll know what happened to him basically just horrific. and that's what happened to the others in the black sites also. i mean it, so nothing has happened. i mean, this is just in the past few days, nothing has happened. that senate ripple, which is the cia of illegal torture in 2014. and he says, when he says clearly,

the more he cooperated, the more he was tortured. that's what he says. yes, the whole thing is, so is so too horrible. the senate report makes public some of what happened to our clients, but not everything. and now more is coming out and now i believe it will be more and more difficult for the government of the united states to keep secret what happened to the other people, the $911.00 people and my client. and of course, there are 26 men in guantanamo who never been charged with any crime who had not pleaded guilty. they're just there as if some kind of permanent detention which is totally anathema to the united states. well tone has more to our system of justice. well, pres abiding, obviously, like the guy, he was vice president obama said he wanted to close it down. i mean, do you think he's swayed secretly, as it were by testimony say from one us,

official, maryland, dawn of the us national clandestine service, claiming we've got to keep this torture secret from lawyers even to prevent terrorists being able to adapt their training techniques. obviously, when we talk about magic connie was a, when you parent these a minor korea, we don't know whether his confession to being a minor courier was affected by the torture. obviously, what do you make of that? that's the u. s. clandestine service. you can talk about this has to be kept all secret. well, and that's ridiculous. i, it's ridiculous at this point. um and it was always ridiculous. they, they hid behind this as sources and methods. this was a method that we couldn't tell them about because then they'll use no torture is illegal besides being immoral, illegal under every circumstance. under every treaty treaties at the u. s. has

signed the geneva conventions of the convention against torture. every single convention says and it's in the u. s. r. code it torture is illegal, under all circumstances. we've called this torture. obama said we tortured a few folks, which i thought was a horrible way to put it. these are people not folks. and now it should all come out and if it helps people not get the death penalty, so be it because we've already given harm to these people so badly that they suffer. they suffer now from a physical and mental pain every day of their lives. from this horrific torture. do you think one element of trying to keep it secret and keep guantanamo open? maybe. is it? it is all that out there like you want it to be more than 50 black sites. reputedly

lithuania, poland. berlin was mentioned in the supreme court. remain the america, if they're more than 50 it as huge foreign policy implications for the united states of those countries. governments can be attacked by their own people for cooperating in this global campaign of torture. as you say, obviously, in contravention of any normal norms of international law. well, i can't talk about any countries aware anybody was held um, no budget. you don't think that the state department and the white house feel, we don't want this information out there because we're state when they, they never wanted it out. the, the problem with this was, there was no, any game. they took people to these black sites. i was in by nature, they come public that they said he should never see the light of day and, but they never thought about it. they didn't think about what's going to happen. if somebody finds out where these people are in, they plan to kill them all. i have no idea. i don't think they ever thought about

it. they, when they went to guantanamo, they thought there never be any court, never be any lawyers and they fight hard. and still fight the united states constitution does not apply in guantanamo, they don't have the right to confrontation, which is a bed rock right in the u. s. i a that detailed it in the film where josie foster the act as yourself. but i mean, you surprise all these after so many years, a defense of these people. i mean, the supreme court on that i was of a, the case the lawyers cited them a ben affleck film, all go up to, to keep the, the cia torture camps in poland. seek. i mean, what do you meet these lawyers, the defending the government or are they different? yes. yes, i do meet them and i have met them. i've met them in our case in mohammed use case, i've met them in the mail last, reese case. you know, they,

they're still people in the, in the cia who believe that mohammed knew was a terrorist even though all the evidence is otherwise john gets just did a movie on this. mohammed knew it did a podcast called this american life, where he talked to to the people who interrogated him. and they still believe what they believe. then they're just, it's like all the trunk sisters who are closed to the facts. well, there's very little information in a donation, mainstream media, so gold, i mean in the evidence on budget cologne. is it the doctors were used by the u. s. torturers? well, yes, the ne, they were obligated to have a doctor present whenever they water boarded someone. and that person had to have

a trade kit, you know, in case they had to go in through the trachea, because they are drowning someone. and i don't know who those doctors are, but i believe that people who are tortures suffer. i believe they suffer. and one of these days, one of those doctors is going to say, i was the doctor who stood there and watched people being purposely. ready drowned to this day, we don't know who they are and but yes, and they don't want us to know who they are. and one element to the background of this is that some of them, us public money was used to basically bite individuals for torture. in effect, well, well, there were leaflets dropped all over the southern part of pakistan and afghanistan . i have one of the leaflets may have a copy of one and they say turn in a terrorist get $5000.00. they say it in english and in an arabic

and perhaps in or do and people were turned in. many of them about 85 percent of the people who ended up there were turned in as part of these drives, basically by the united states. well, i, i don't know, maybe you know whether this kind of torture is continuing today, whether they're a new cases that you will be defending in talk. you know, that's not us miss will not everywhere. i suppose i should ask you for the most celebrated torture gaze here, at least according to you in the u. n. human rights council of julian assange. i mean them is belma sh in london in effect, and it's, it's a black site when it comes to the wikileaks old can well, you can say that, you know, he's been kept in solitary confinement as i understand it for quite a long time. solitary confinement is,

is considered torture when someone is in it for a long time, even more than a month. the new and rapid tour on torture said with this, this is basically a form of torture. so am, is he being not tortured? the way these people were, is he having water morning, is he being put in a little cage with an insect? he's terrified, are busy being strong up and held up. we'll resume the allegation when it comes to i was invited illness re also most of them are they were allegedly rep to re hydration, which is not a medical term. and you know, it's not re hydration when hummus they were on strike, not eating. so they just shoot how mess up the rectum. i mean, this is rate, this is sodomy. are some implements were used in some cases i believe,

but yes, none. none of that has happened to julian of sanchez, but is it torture to be locked up for so long alone and to have the government make the ridiculous argument? well, it's not solitary confinement because he has to see his lawyers. that's ridiculous, ridiculous, that's holland. thank you. sand that's of the show will be back on saturday. 20th through the day, you as president george w bush issued a military order, setting out the terms to allow any foreign national, 2 me potentially detained, tried and convicted just before it's alleged torture camping occupied. cuba was opened up in guantanamo until then. keep judge firewall as social media and let us know what you think. president obama trumping biden have not shut down one time

one, and i make no sense. no board is a team. and you as emerge, we don't have a charity. we don't to look back seen the whole world, leads to take action and be ready. people are gonna come in crisis with them. we can do better, we should be doing better. everyone is contributing each in their own way. but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is great. the response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together with

allowing ourselves to be more efficient for quicker with our transactions. but with that comes a trade off. every device is a potential entry point for security into any machine sunday. it's an extension of traditional times. the defenders have always been one step behind the attackers permit. when one comes option in the offering. it's not a matter of, if it happens, it's a matter of when if we can now look into people's minds, read the thoughts. the question then is, what kind of consequence we, we could take from this. i think you take the example flying. it would prevent us from lying. we wouldn't be able to lie anymore if everything becomes transparent. but what we're thinking

with who you want to be when you grow old hunger and suffering. the border between belarus and poland, where thousands of migrants including children, remain stranded while trying to enter the can you. a group of nobel prize winners is demanding human rights organizations are allowed in immediate access to the area . display of arrogance and impunity rushes foreign minister blasts the use approach to the unfolding migrant crisis. and another news, a world renowned lawyer says recent guantanamo trial, described as a stain on the moral fiber of america, could hopefully set a precedent for other victims of abuse at the hands of us agents. this is the 1st time that everyone got take here.