little joke. on wednesday, the i assess on to on and river to dodge a piece off a chinese, whether something destroyed 14 years ago. we spoke to russian cosmonaut mikhail connie jenko about how dangerous a collision with spectrum could be contact. yes. so miss miss garcia of the main danger is the speed at which objects move in space. it all depends on the size to him. but even if an object to small as if a ping pong ball hits the spacecraft, will now be a huge hole which will lead to d, pressurization and oxygen losses. this is why they usually try to warn us 36 hours beforehand to avoid the danger zone. for this time though, it was all discovered too late this, which is why the only option for the crew is to move from the international space station rather to the space ships on the probability of a fragment hitting the spacecraft is not as high as with the whole station near a school, the situation with space junk is getting worse as more and more object to being

launched into space school. it's becoming a big problem. we have to deal with it, but we still don't know how to cause this no technology fatima 0. well, i mean about is, are mondays, news stories are shipping off the newsroom just off camera. they're busy putting together all the latest updates. i'll bring them to you in less than 30. do hope you'll join me then. ah, ah ah ah. hello in welcome to cross stock. we're all things are consider 9. peter labelle, the e. u and bear rose red odds over illegal immigration. guess what men's cast,

the higher cards. also, washington is again increasing tensions within ukraine. is the bite administration looking to score a foreign policy victory to deflect from crises at home? i the you discuss these issues and more and joined by my guess, marcus pop adopted in london. he's a historian analyst, an author of the book arrives when i see the return of russia to world politics. and here in moscow we have maxine, huge golf. he is director of the center for advanced american studies at moscow state institute of international relations. or a gentleman cross the rules and effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. i know with marcus in london, well, the story with us in poland is gaining attention and intensity by the way, about the legal immigration. now the, what the you was saying,

and particularly the polls is that these people are being dumped on to them. but the brussels is very hesitant for borders and not to speak of walls here. but more and more people coming to their room to saying these people are transiting here. there's something much more a play here. and i think it is. is that the local shank of the russian president? he's basically saying you want to resolve this issue. you have to talk to me, don't keep talking to says he doesn't want to talk about it. it's really, bill is, is forcing an issue for the european union to actually start recognizing that be a root has legitimate interests here. because we've seen that as they don't want to have any kind of dialogue, your thoughts, markets go ahead. pizza, allow me to clarify a very important matter. there is only one migrant crisis, a golf in europe, and that is

a migrant crisis which isn't its 10th year now caused by america. britain and france have been de stabilized both libya and syria for having supported islamist terrorists in both countries, which has resign in well over 1000000 migrants enter in europe, most of whom have not come from libya and syria, but turn into the tension on the polish russian, buddha, the g, a strategic dimensions to that are as follows. america and britain are attempting to ferment civil unrest in reverse or it's historic. and i sort of name is lasha. in the hope that fermenting civil unrest in the country will assist them in their quest to initiate our crew in bella, russia against president alex on to look to shame that towards wrestling. russia

from moscow is all bit and place in the west, open it, which would result in the western border of the russian federation from the old 60, to the black sea. being entirely encircled and close by countries which are in the west of it. that would be a tremendously dangerous situation for russia now, was the chances of weston embellish occurring are negligible, none the less anything is possible. there is also another dimension to this america and britain on looking for a pretext to continue increasing nato's presence along the russian order, both soldiery and weaponry, and by election ballot russia back to by russia is attempting to

stabilize the european union, the stabilize later by allowing migrants illegal migrants to enter europe that serves as a pretext. shrink creasing mesa is presence in the east and what has happened? well, just in the last few days, pizza, british soldiers have been dispatched to poland to advise the polish government on how to secure its folder. well, that's quite lawful for a number of reasons, but one of them is this, that the british states doesn't see fit to dispatch a british soldiers to nobody, to defend britain's, boldest against illegal migrants who are crossing, being those channel on a daily basis. indeed, only a few days ago, 1000 illegal migrants entered on one day alone.

yeah. the so tension between the european union and embarrass leslie really shows the, the, the wanting immigration policy of the european union. because as marcus is pointed out, here is a process is basically just dropped the bone because, you know, they're not particularly happy with the holes in the 1st place right now for a lot of other internal union issues here. so it really kind of puts them in a bind and then we, we have the european union trying to communicate the rush of the communication. there is no rush of things that are problem. it's your problem and look a shank and say, well let's talk but they don't want to. i mean, it shows the weakness of the european union foreign policies, immigration policy, even leadership here because this can be resolved because we do have an example that name is called eric on. ok. i mean, they're willing to talk to turkey, not a member of the european union about legal immigration, but they're not willing to talk because what are they too proud?

go ahead. right, well i think there are, there are 2 lessons to, to learn for the europe from the crisis and anything so far they have not been learning these 2 lessons. one is if the parents are as concern as they should be, the security instability of the johnson regions, north africa, and the middle east. they perhaps should have stopped sourcing major decision making to the united states. that them full spray to internal american domestic politics. right. and they should take matters into their own hands, which they're not doing as, as you just mentioned. and markers just show. so they're asking for more kind of american and british support to take these, you know, to solve this issue for that. and that's a problem in the long run. and the 2nd less than i think that they're not learning that they should be learning is that turning states into failed entities has long term consequences. so when, when they were old, these interventions in syria,

i've gotten on even a rock, i guess a huge number of these migrants and the polish bell, russian border, or iraqi purse. and you know what, what i think is missing in this discussion is how did they end up on the polish bell, russian border, and why would they go there in the 1st place? right. they're not, you're in there. i think there is little the standing discussion of what's going on in the iraqi curtis. then why would people go to, to, to europe now, and that these are serious questions that i think have not been ras and brother pins keep looking for the core factor in every single challenge that they face. and i don't think it's a long term solution. markets with this issue with energy, their low to, to appreciate oh, and energy security, migration security. but you know, at the same time, they think they have to demonize russia, but maybe the russian been figured out. i mean, it's a very,

we're trying to buy adults broached on policy. and if you rightfully pointed out the, you case then true to poland. i mean, this all started out because of military decisions in the middle east. and now the best solution, this is ben troops. what about just city now? how can we, we can negotiate the welfare of these people and the big around how they got there, why they got their presumably, presumably gentlemen, these quote unquote rescue, geez bought wayne tickets. so, i mean, these are well off refugees. i mean is, there's always, they're always looking for a land game, but we don't even know who these people are. go ahead. well, of course, if america, britain and the european union would sincerely analyze the reasons for the migration crisis, then it was totally annihilates their reasons for having intervened in both libya and syria. so obviously they are not going to go down that pathway.

however, there is a very, very obvious reason play as to why our focus is on russia. it is because the russia of today is not the russia of the 19 ninety's. if flatten me, it was a if he was compliant to weston wishes to west and demands. if he allowed russia to be dependent on the international monetary fund, then you would say a very different approach on the west. but of course, the reality is that under vladimir putin, not only has russia regained its independence, which it last. so a very great extent during the 19 ninety's because it was on and i, and met life supports machine. not only that for them in person has returned russia

as a great power. and even for he has returned russia as a superpower. and of course, the americans look to russia as the only country which can truly challenge it. hm, it's hedge and want to go in the world. they do not look at china in the same way because they know that the chinese economy is dependent on the american economy. so china is not able to challenge russia in the same way. and as i said to moments ago, the situation on the whole issue of russian odor is not about migrants, per se, is about russia. it is about finding another pretext to, to ferment further civil unrest by the marcia to demonize president lucas, who in my estimation, has done a very good job in keeping bell russia. i've every stable country since the end of

the soviet union. and also it provides the west to continue be philip. it's a military presence in nater and in the black sea region, that is what the, the crux of the matter is concerning. the tension on the polish of us and it is about nathan increase in its presence along the russian order. but i think it was kind of like a logical thing to me. brussels is can't competent. the fact that there was gonna say no, they can say no and get away with it here. and because of that, they've taken options off of the table. like i said, there's the air to one option. you might or might not find them practice. but it did resolve your problem, ok. and, but they are not willing to accord the same kind of policy towards the very reasons that market says explain to us, go ahead, right. i agree, and i will also add to that perhaps that i think kind of

a me term challenge here is that, well, the rules may be kind of turn into what d p a r k is for china. you know, when you put too much pressure on kim and refusal kind of options for negotiations that me, that me place you out. you know, north korea as a strategic leverage for china against regional rival, but also and beat opinion. the next, which i think if the current policy is to word spell the risk continue, then russia would have to support to share and go on a number of things that may not would be in russia's own interests. but because you don't really have a better option than you have like it even longer problem on your hands. but also, as i mentioned before, if europeans kind of are playing a trick role here, you know, on the one hand to complain about their security. on the other hand, they refuse to make their own transformation from a payer to

a real player. to go to a heartbreak about heartbreak. we'll continue our discussion on some real. you'd say, ah, ah, we're empowering ourselves to be more efficient, quicker with our transactions. but with that comes a trade off every device as a potential entry point for security attack any machine, depending on it's an extension of traditional time. the defenders have always been one step behind the attackers with them. there's one comes option or it's not a matter of if it happens, it's a matter of when who know when i was

a to see out the same because the advocate an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will depart, we choose to look so common ground the welcome at the cross dock. were all things considered? i'm peter la bell. this is the home and just to remind you were discussing some real news. i change gears, gentlemen maxime, let's talk about ukraine and i have this really bad feeling of deja vu all over again because we had in the spring tensions we say for very provocative rhetoric

and even behavior. and then we seem to have a repeat b u. s. administration, the by the ministration really is increased its interest and i am at the same time mentioned within ukraine. here, what is the message they're sending because it's very confusing or maybe that's the whole point is to be open. ok to, to read a sense of unease, but of course that in itself creates more attention. and obviously the russians are watching very carefully about as i was stressed over and over again. this from, this is an intro ukraine problem. definitely trying to pull russia into it, your thoughts, my friend, go ahead. well, i think throughout as history. russia as a continental, our had to focus on 3 major fronts, you know, with the west east on goals. and now perhaps we'll keep an eye on china,

but also in the south will the entire kind of central asia middle east direction. so the idea that i think has been very strong in the west, in the us in particular that rushes and chinese alignment may pose a greater challenge and rushing, they act as a force multiplier to china is i think is very strong. so one reason to invoke these ukraine cards, so to say, as many policymakers moscow believe is that, you know, that kind of keeps moscow distracted from the eastern front with china and from the southern front with syria and all the middle east policy. and you've been very, very busy in the west with ukraine. the 2nd thing, i think you mentioned the dash of who i even have with even more. i just kind of point dangerous. i mean, this is not a board game. we're guy. sure. very, very 14000 people have been killed by the government in the don back. this is not

a board game. this is very, very dinner of people. is it isn't that is serious. and then you know the amendment, the talks about there's a new and i haven't even and other issue with august 2008. and i think that makes me very worried in the wake of the war in georgia. music. right. and then the war in georgia and so south of santia, you know, a few couple of months before the 5 the war. honda, lisa rice came to believe c. and you know, some say in private, she argued and warned cyprus really against score, who provoked and russia and stuff, but in public, then they went and then, you know, provided security guarantees and stuff. so i think, you know, when talk to the american policy managers to visit key f. and then you know, you speak to people say, well, they actually, you know, encouraged the landscape to focus on fighting corruption and stuff. but that's not

what they say in public though. and they didn't talk about native guarantees and security reassurance is all they kind of stuff. so that seems a very dangerous message to authorities and then they go and escalate in the use of your brain. so that makes them very worried about prospects for, for what we may see in this crisis market. i'm really glad that i brought up for august 2008 because i see the scenario playing out again. you have this very public propaganda barrage, encouraging the ukrainians. there's a person named the metro jato is who is a known figure even before the my don, the european union, a ultra nationalist, even some people describe him as a neo nazi he's, he's playing another key role in military thinking in and his only goal is war is what is the goal is conflict. and when you have the secretary events in the

united states, you know, going, giving them these out of boys and you know, where we got your back and, you know, in your inter, go to our security. all the other, you know, boiler plate nonsense that nato is putting out on a daily basis. this creates a very, very dangerous situation because obviously it's a wag the dog situation that we could good way out here and there will be real consequences. go ahead, mark. i have long described that ukraine as rushes soft underbelly, because without a way, if russia has a ukraine on its border, which is also and which is in the west of it. then not only is that russia going to be weakened in europe, but it will be weakened in the world as a whole. and even worse than that, russian national security will be in peril. and of course, for nearly 8 years now,

ukraine has been in the west all bit politically, economically, militarily. also culturally, the west has integrated ukraine into it or bit. that is not to say, however, that russia doesn't have a leverage in ukraine because it most certainly does. so for example, millions of ukrainians, not just in the east of ukraine, not just in the south if you drink, but also in the center of ukraine, regard themselves as part of the russian. well, nonetheless, ukraine is in the west orbit. and america and britain, which of course of the heart and soul of nato, are intent on bring in the ukraine into its ranks because a ukraine in the rank of night. so the main that russia is and so on its western border, it would mean that russian supremacy in the black sea region would be seriously

compromised. because even as we talk now, the americans are referred to ship the pools at odessa and also off in ukraine to accommodate american and british will shit. so what we see at the moment in the black sea region and in ukraine is a measure that the americans in the british are going to take. they now have ukraine in their orbits. they are going to do everything they possibly can, with the exception of defending ukraine. militarily, they will do everything they can to ensure that ukraine remains in their presence. so one of the options to russia, well gosh, is options. she does have options in ukraine, and quite frankly, ukraine should never have been allowed to enter the west or bit in the 1st place.

the dangers emanates at the end of 2013 in ukraine, and for russia were very obvious, but that is under the bridge, so to speak. the only way that you crane can be saved is for russia, so you can clinical action. otherwise, the day will come when you crane and night. so people could see people very quickly . people, people could say that ukraine can only join night. so if the situation in the crime and the dumbass is result of, quite frankly here, could agree to rejoin its own, whereby it forgets about the crimea. if it gets about the for the blue and on it, which has lost. and then in that scenario, ukraine will be free to join night. so the way it all, by the way, folks, you know, it doesn't sound right when it comes out. that doesn't roll off the b u. k. and the united states are black. the pounds because they're not ordered by the but they're,

they're met. same. i mean, the cynic in me tells me, is then kind of echoing, when you said, you mean given, when marcus had to say, but the united states to create a diplomatic crisis for rush over ukraine suits them just fine. ok. i mean, encourage the government, you have a military assault on what's called the balance. russia will react irrespective of the outcome, the usb, that is a victory, right? russia would be isolated in the west military action because ukraine would not win . i mean, it's a, it's a very cynical game because every bad outcome is washington is perceived is a good outcome. go ahead max. well, i think if i were to look at the situation from, from the western point, it makes sense to when you have to focus on, you know, rivalry with china. but russia is, is, is still

a huge issue. you need to build kind of a new containment in a way to contain russia in the black sea. and in the, in the, in this, in its border with ukraine is one option, obviously. and a big one. there is also, i think, an illusion of that you can lee, the court on board controlled escalation game with, with russia, where you supply your brain with certain weapons. and you maintain his certain degree of, you know, violence and escalation and intensity of the water with russia, and then hope you can still deter moscow against any hardcore option of retaliation . which i think what the united states has now been trying to do by also sending, you know, c a g for bill birth to moscow. and kind of making all this warning signals against jack. but i think the red lines on the green have been told and repeated again and again, and we're seeing now that they've been violating. and i think the entire situation is now being clean out again, around setting new rules and setting new stage for you know,

the new brain obviously was not happy with the mens get worse. we right, is, is the damping near can see if the russia will buckle it will lay except a strategic peter. and i think all of this would agree that that's not in the car, but then the reception then the west has a certain combination. the russians will give up, that's not going to happen and that's why i went on this program because i see this is a collision course. as i said, days all over again. i ranked, remind everyone during the spring intentions were very, very, to be are to the point where obviously a potential conflict was at hand here. then the, the americans said they were going to send in ships into the black sea. then they decided not to and then for some reason the u. k. i will go who they're, i mean, obviously they didn't work. why did they think it's going to work now? go ahead. well, i hope it's not going to work. the moscow may also kind of get,

you know, consider some, some new tactics, perhaps also the ones that may include and use a force to reset the stage and to go ers to crane to sign some new terms of agreement. and obviously i think 6 to renegotiate the main scores that it beliefs were not in it's in its interest, but i can't agree more with you. it's a dangerous, it's a dangerous trend towards a new collision course. i can finish up. whereas markets, well, of course, the chance is in my opinion, of a war between russia and america over ukraine or negligible, but the chances of an accidental or i'm very much alive and well. that's what we worry about your this miscalculation me, play a game of chicken. one side may decide to go through with that. and then when once i decide to go through with you both end up in it. okay. what we're hoping to avoid

here. okay gentlemen, that's all the time we have, you want to think my guess in moscow when lending them. i think our viewers for watching us here are you seeing? i'm remember? ah ah. so driven by dreamers shaped by center. some of those with there's things we dare to ask in with

breaking news on our tea, a huge crowd of migrants moved from their camp in bella luce, to the border. poland, braces for a possible breach, with military reinforcements, backed by water cannon. we will be reporting live from the 10th seen a number of seconds from now. and it comes as a reporter and a camera on from our sister channel. our t fronts are detained by polish police on the boundaries border while covering the migrant crisis. also ahead place in the u. k to cara taxi explosion, i saw a hospital in liverpool on sunday. a terrorist incident for men are arrested in connection with the blast, which left one person dead on another injured ah .