ah, ah, turning off the tap deliveries temporarily shuts an oil pipeline which runs from russia to poland and into the e. u. on scheduled maintenance is the stated reason for the holes, but come for the time of tighten tension between mintz congressional shock divide emerge. they were poland tactics with france slamming plans for a massive wall to be built on the border. we look at the tough line being taken against people crossing from believers, while migrant bosa freely crossing the mediterranean. and the device to try and call worked in house these clashes outside a us course passes the characterizations of bias and defamation fly on the judge bronze the mainstream media's coverage of the proceedings. grossly irresponsible it

finds out more about these stories on our website, r t dot com. that's all for me. thanks for watching what we see. she will be with you with all the latest headlines and just now with with hello and welcome to cross stop. were all things are considered? i'm peter little. when there are problems like the energy crisis, europe's illegal immigration on poland border or even when the wrong political party or politician wins. there is a culprit, always waiting in the wings. and that's russia. scapegoating. russia is the excuse used by failing to western elite, i

crest sucking perceptions of rush. i'm joined by my guest, roberts and courts. he is a meritus professor of history at university college court and a member of the royal irish academy. his latest book is stollins library, a dictator in his books in paris we have a moral, he's the founder of the center of political strategic analysis strap pole. and here in moscow were joined by vladimir goldstein. he is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university. right. gentleman cross stock rules and effect. that means you can jump in any time you want, and i always appreciated. let me go to jeff 1st in court. rosa phobia is very real . we see it all the time, particularly in po and politics and popular culture. if you watch netflix at all, and i have, i have you in ireland to have as of yay in paris. and we have vladimir moscow. but he is a resident of the united states. so, you know, i'd like a little bit of a how it's expressed where you are. is there a specific kind of russo phobic expression that you find in ireland? go ahead, jeff. well, i think because sir, no, sir,

russia so as sir as some other countries. so for example, you k. okay, so i live in on bobs, i follow the british media and sometimes it seems some kind of like being bombarded with kind of anti russia. you images, stereotypes, and claims are not only just recently. okay. the migration crisis been blood blind on russia. there was a had money, a major bridge to speak to the other day about the possibility of a roster type on, on the new crime. or the british chief of defense staff, or just just retired. it was talking about the dangerous war, russia. and of course, the u. demonization of putin is a come, is a constant in the media in the british, me, british media. but i just wanna say something else. yeah. yeah. okay. it, there is a lot, rasa foger about non brilliant in many other countries as well. but i'm not convinced how important it is. yeah. but with a st. paul,

i think it's ugly by this discussion mclawrence program. i think it's actually a robust, superficial, or phenomenon film, or you, you mentioned in your instruction that no russia is, is us, is a scapegoat, or you know, the domestic politics. i think that's, that's very true. but also there's also a genuine cadillac perception on the part, many people in india later to popular at least people are not raso folks in general, set perceptions about, you know, rushing danger to russian friends. ah, all of that comments. i think we have to be careful about not overstating imports at a rasa phobia and understating the import the significance of people's real fast, not face neck retentions, english to russia. now point is cost is not a lot. we can do about russ nasir phobia. and russell much, but there is something we can do about people's prejudice. instance of mis,

mister sections about russia. well, i am glad of me if i can turn to you. i mean, i think jeffrey brings up a really good point. i think it is very superficial and away, but at the same time it, it's super busy. ality is the excuse. it does become that excuse. if something goes wrong, there's always some a country or a group of people that you can blame where there's actually very little downside when you think about it. okay. i mean, you don't see the american lead scale going again, having the same kind of animals towards china, for example. okay. but they will with russia. what are your thoughts on that vladimir go ahead? well, it's always a lazy, but a teacher kind of excuse. are they the last excuse or was calendar always or, or should be ursa, forbear. that is, you know, just rather than acknowledging or facing certain issues, both in, in one's own country and in russia. what, what i find as a professor and in a student over russia, history are some, a literature, rational culture. i find a country endlessly fascinating. you know, every time i come here, i just,

my eyes just wide open. what are tremendous changes as country goes through? how many things happened in the last 3040 years when you deal with us for the it's unfortunately, it's like i already for a 1000000 narrative. you know, as a crazy good, a g image, a board is everyone would generate a diffusions, a wonderful a weston. you know, well, wal machine and this is a, it's a 1st of all, it's a, it's a betrayal of through. second of all is very bad for average people. you know, i agree on some level that may beats, it's like skin deep or maybe it's on a superficial. but a lot of people in or they rely on the way in use are presented and whatever. and rather than go on to russia, rather than seeing things for themselves rather than mine, and marino lorna and was studying the country, they just get the same 2 stories. how they see, you know, russian police ohana say sort of in are as a result. and that is, you know,

does everything but, and they lose the interests of coming out if they think they already know everything. and as if i find is very, very kind of disturbing and dangerous. and as a child, when we in a, you have internet, reconnected at the same time, or where pull the pot, this was of, i find this, i mean it for, for you to because france and russia traditionally, historically had very strong ties. very strong barnes. and then not always over bad, bad moments. i mean, and for some people and we can discuss is we want, you know, some of the origins of currently a modern day was of obee go back to the crimean war. other say, goes even further back to their pollyanna wars. but i mean, you know, france and russia have a very long history together. but then we just a couple days ago, ah, vladimir putin was talking with the french president and the french president saying, you know, we, we guarantee our ukraine security. i mean it, that, that, that's very dangerous for not only for france, but the are all of europe itself, particularly when the crisis in ukraine is being generated by the west and not by

russia. go ahead, la garza in paris, but i think it is the situation in france. it's gray, the semi at means. i mean that the, the french elite, the governmental elite and the french, her minstrel made. yes, aro rissa phobic. i can said that her represent of the french tv channel our on to russian and maybe 90 percent of the newspaper and magazines are answer written, but it's concerned elite and concerning the french people. there are quite early, so feel i can say in, for instance sir, sometimes even though retina, which is quite popular because yay, gave the maids that he's a strong man. and the, there is a lake of stronger political men in france. so is a, is quite popular and to be honest, french people are on the do interesting in what i've been in ukrainian. and the of course there was a, you turn in, in 2014, then even in 2012,

when the foster alarm came to poorer. because his, her is a, is a, is a socialist. and the, and the left in france is a very her refurbished so her at this time we can say that the governmental elite and the mainstream media's elite are a risk of fabric, but not the people. you know, jeff and one of the things i'm, i'm an american, obviously, i'm a long term resident in of russia now of over 20 years. and i've always sounded really quite interesting how the west constructs it's identity. and it's always a, very often, it's the, at the juxtaposition of russia. and so when they say russians are aggressive, they're actually trying to divert attention away from their own aggression. okay. and um, and, and when they were a and looking at the quality of life or the level of civilization, you know, you know, the, it's always projecting all of their negative traits on to someone else and rushes, a very good foil for that. what do you think about that, jeff?

go ahead. so just a great to put the wrinkle funds to, xavier might use the. okay. rus russell. phobia ross of phobia is a phenomenon of the elite western politics. it's not, it's not popular to not a doctor does any kind of widespread, a, rasa phobia as chipmunk no general problem population. so certainly i'm certainly not to call stats it's, carla, it's weakness. yes. she may appear to be overpowering. any your face all the time, but it's not. she is at the front, the front i. she's are actually quite a friendship. so this was, apart from my phone is broken. let's not over into our, the russell such as times i try to rush to phobia the porch, russia talk with him. but jeffrey, jeffrey george, everybody. i mean you, i, we were all in agreement. it's ubiquitous. i mean, it's everywhere. okay. i mean, so, i mean, even, even if it's not it's, you know, more it no more than skin deep. i mean, it is always with us. i mean,

with the us went through this, russia gate nonsense here, and it continues here. so, i mean, we could talk about, you know, how disturbing or dangerous it is, but it is ubiquitous. and i think that i find it very, very curious because, you know, it may go to la vladimir here in mosque. i mean it's like a one size fits all of your problems. are because of and then you point the finger . i agree peter. peter grits you. big, ubiquitous, of my argument is that many respects it's course superficial and how it lacks purchase at the societal as i to look at some point, i'm trying to make a gun to your question about yes. in relation to the western politics on that down, there are kind of, i guess it's a, i'm joe. i touched on russia. i stay aggressor and didn't to themselves on, on the defense, it will close as a classic example of that going on among the relation to that the migration cross. it's on, on polish,

better by the rooster. a nice. so the west western politicians are pointing the finger at russia when it's actually, it's not russia's problem, is why it's not russian promot, others don't. it's a pretty use problem. missed is to probably be use a migration policy, but it's not watch exactly the reality of their own policy, which, which actually is a very come across the policy across all he used front is the other figure is, is pointed to russia and jeffrey, the longer we talk, we always end up agreeing here. let me go to vladimir before we go to the break. you wanna comment anything we've just said here. go ahead. vladimir. yeah, i agree with a very particular with both of you that it's an issue of identity in particular, maybe what i find fascinating is identity of this liberal elite that, that so are you sure it, it may be, it was like right wingers or was capitol of socialist russia, khomeini's said whatever there was always in on the fifty's in the sixty's,

they were always blame. blaming their openings were being software communism solve soft on their ads. now somehow they left has to find their bottom of their identity and they have fallen old backwards by blame in russia. i remember when there was a, you know, competing among democrats to sort of up seat upset trump in the row. i would watch the debates of democrats and it was ridiculous people who, who are like a local governance could don't know anything or they wouldn't find rash on the map just by this big size and they will well, dual booting, these old equip. i'm letting me hold that thought, here we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on perceptions of rush and stay with blue

. ah. ah new york, it's really what america is about when our mayor took our place, he was elected because of his campaign on our city, being a tale of 2 cities, the halves and i have not. and those who have not are usually the ones who wind up

being buried on hard i. the city is always wanted to forget about hold island. so you want it to forget about the people who are buried there, wanting to forget about the fact that there is a potter's field, that there was a place where difficult stories are hidden. the fact that we're using inmates to maintain this active burial site, where 1000000 souls are buried, where so much of new york city history is buried, is documents of the inequality that exist in the city for centuries. is no thing. they can't ride on police report in december 2020, a group of anti fascist, allowed a film crew access for 3 months. so like if people, organization, if an idea that it must be opposed to the gate while they may kill that faces.

but they can say what i believe in, we believe in helping our community. we believe that our fascism is one of the major threats to united states has gotten reuben. this is a chance to see who and t for really off in order for me, extract my 1st amendment right and say that my life matter have to be on to the teacher that that's all american. we can't trust the police, we can't trust the government. we can't trust anyone except ourselves to protect ourselves in. ah, welcome back. across stock. we're all things are considered. i'm peter level to remind you, we're discussing perceptions of russia. ah. okay, want to go back to vladimir and finish up a point. wait, while we're making them before we went to the break. i'm glad we, we all seem to be in agreement here. that russo phobia is an elite issue here. i

mean, why is it just the elite here? and, and it's very, very interesting considering the type of victory, all that is a directed against russia by the elite in the media. it's really interesting that those of us that live here in russia is not reciprocated. there is not that kind of animosity directed against americans or the british or something like that. it's not reciprocal. it's a very weird phenomena. so why, why is it in a lead phenomenon? because i think we're all in agreement when it gets into the population, most people kind of whole arm. they like chikavsky. don't scab skis. great. okay, great. so be a film. so, you know, i mean it's really a mixed bag here, but the, at the very top it's very different. why go ahead? well, why, why? the reason i would suggest is that i think most of the, a western western lead fray and germans were, they were, they are very much americanized. and that's whether we're like it or not. that's a power of american media or american propaganda. all american power shape

discourse, american liberal in our discourse, is now so shift in the 60s, as i said in early barrels or other sympathetic towards a soviet union. now i was all the saw that it became the center of all this work. beth veins. conservatives this and that. so americans that dictates a discourse, and i think a lot of french intellectual, sorry, leads, or whatever they study here. s. and they and they sort of a one way or another by as much as they repeat it. but what would i find very disturbing about this? the shift is this, the same liberal elite which seems to be running in all like at least media in most of the western counties. there would be a would, you know, would we stop right away? blame in any other group because it is right politically, it's not political, correct, but somehow, political correctness stops at the doors of russia in all bets are off and they come up with is mostly because a kind of a. 1 conspiracy theories,

russia is enrolled in this rationalism that can you imagine, you know, any western positions blame in any other county, you know, from aerobic wall, israel leason that you would now imagine it pointing the finger that they are behind it. it'd be v i screamed and people will be viewed as anti semis, whatever. but it's absolutely fine for this most in the sophisticated, liberal obedience to blame russia for god knows what and i, i find it disturbing. but basically it's, it's saying, i think a i, if a big a big daddy in your uncle, sam is doing it. that means, you know, i'm in a little german station or little french station. i can repeat that to them. oh, yeah, exactly. it's really quite interesting, i'm glad that vladimir brought up all that because during the cold war there was an ideological conflict, a very, very real one. okay. very easy to discern here. but the cold war is over. russia is no longer a communist country. it actually has no state ideology to speak up,

which i by regrettable at times. okay. it seems to me the animal that the west has to rush is that russia does simply won't accept neil liberal ideology. that is its greatest sin. okay. he will not become like the west, and on top of it, russia and russians have the ability to say, no, we don't want your political correctness. we don't want your woken as we don't want any of it. we can watch it on netflix, but keep it in to yourselves. we're not interested in it. they the west hate rush for that. go ahead. zavion paris. yeah, i 3, there is a 2 point. the 1st one, russia is seen by the french elite or as a conservative power. whoop, pray, bitten her to get pride were privy to the wedding, sir gay wedding, her. and we will always support such country like her and gary her and such kind of sinks. so for the french elite whizzer, mostly lifted oriented her either either ocoee enemy. the 2nd point is like,

is or that russia is like a therapy for our elite. when some seeing it went wrong or we need to find the or would we can take o responsibility. so we need to find some, somebody we can take the the guilt. and it happened with the brakes it bracing did at up and because of the opinion, and he's a complete, feder, but because russia organizer referred them to support johnson who, everybody knows that is a very, a fan of russia. look at what happened during the covet crisis. france is, are one of the country were, was the worst managed during his crises. so, the micron, sir, the macro, no management of the crises is a complete failure. but look at our mid. yes, it's are always talking about always it worse in russia or that the delay about the figures and so on and so on. so russia was, or was it a therapy for the, for the french leftist elite. and it will continue because it's very,

as you say is it's very her comfortable and lazy. approach. geoffrey a comfortable and lazy approach. i couldn't say it better. i think that's absolutely true. i mean, got a putin god trump elected president. oh, europe will freeze this winter because a potent well now it's just because of european incompetence. okay, that's why you have an energy problem. there's actually ample energy in the world that just manage very badly. okay. oh and oh, but since rach adds all its energy, it must be, it's fun, it's fun. i mean, these people don't make any sense because, but then again, very few people and this program is we push back because it's not hard to push back against all of these ridiculous commentaries. go ahead. jeff and cork, a great job. yes. is very comfortable and lazy. tommy, go, russia, but your politicians don't, you know, not just on council lighting relation to ra russia that you know, in my experience, a couple of laser relation to too many issues. so i'm not sure there are fair fair

. i agree with the statement that rushes conservatism and it's resistance and push back against certain forms of western liberalism is, is part of her if paul was going on in terms of western prejudice, also that she towards russia. but also, i think there's also not fundamental jill political issue here, which is russia's, you know, challenge to, to, to a western dominated world older. the russian alternative to, to the so called western rules rose rose based older and also to note the fundamental failure of the west to actually contain and deal with the problem of russia in the post cold warriors, the reemergence of russia, as a great power on it. since it's assertion of its own interests and challenges

embarrass as fans and i'm putting in at least not because so you know, i think it's not just a question of prejudice. so laziness on for western politicians from their perspective. russia does present a real problem real chance johnny is a real problem and, and i'm out of random under root out of room challenge. okay. with med, vladimir, i mean you, how can you talk um, sanely, dispassionately about geo politics. and at the same time, talk about rules, base order, which i have no idea what that is about to me. it sounds like our way or the highway. that's what that phrase means to me. i mean, is that the, it's a, it's a mistake. it's a fools, aaron to but say geo politics and then you can kind of ideological preferences. i mean, you have to separate them. but if you put, when you put them together, you end up getting this kind of rules based order. ideology, which means are, are rules and you have to be ordered. okay? and you can do both at the same time and,

and russia says no to both at the same time. again, that's one of the reasons why these leads hate russia so much. you know, i agree with jeffrey that, that is, you know, that it's time to reconsider relationship with russia, but many, many, you know, put a chance, a ill lazy or just, you know, they get used to in it. when you have a 10 year old child, you can say to, to this boy or girl don't do that and they would listen to when the child is 25. you can't do that anymore. it requires a different approach. while the west a but additions, they don't want a different approach. you will though it's not in the door. raja is a major energy player. russia is a major culture power. raj is a major play in terms of, you know, climate, you know, it has a big, a steady story, a walk on this as it should be the 1st one to be considered in order to, into the game. so it's time to sit down and negotiate. but you know, it's, it's much easier to do with the 10 year old child say do what your dad is says or

else. but this just shows a failure to prepare. i would also say in terms of media, it's a failure or either to understand or understand anything. you do have to invest your morsel, love an interest in the country, but it's much easier just to go touch the surface autocrats abuse arrest that no valley here would have if i me this story. but that's, that's a totally unfair to any subject. one studies if he has to be approach with love and with deep understanding, where exactly am i? i didn't think we would mention i mr. navarro. he name, but he has it in the val these name has been mentioned here. suppose that the, the russian foreign ministry of they, the americans want to play that game, then why don't they say, well, we want to know about the human rights condition of 500 plus people that are being kept in prison. as a result of that january, january say hi, and i mean to can play this game. the russians don't do it. they might start doing

it. i don't know. i don't speak for the russian government, but you know, human rights again, this is this one sided that human rights means one thing. and it means only the that for the, because if we say it, it has to be applied to the rest world. but no one can criticize us for human rights. ok. this is the arrogance that really puts out more and more of the world. go ahead. example, of course, and snowden is inertia, and i saw it is in the united kingdom in jail. so it's difficult of freud's quite complicated for the, for the west to criticize the russia on the human right. if you look at what happened, no whizzer was us on. but of course, again, it's her, it's a kind of therapy look at what a burner in friends during her, the yellow jackets ah, 2060 paul luster. and i are because of the, of the repression it didn't upon her, of course, not in russia, but even not in belarus. no, no, we're in a, in a, in europe. it happens. and so,

but anyway, if you look at her of the french room in 3 majors, there will continue to criticize saying that her put in is a dictator and that russia is not a free country. and that the do political or opposition is in jail. a gunner and claiming that her never only represents something strong in the russia, which is completely a fake news because the men, no position is the communist party. okay gentlemen, this, i'm in a fascinating topic. i didn't discuss with you. i think we need to talk more about different elements of here because as we've all agreed, it is very ubiquitous and it at the end of the day can be very dangerous because it's a nuclear power. okay, i gentlemen, that's all the time we, i'm one of thanks them i guess in paris, cork and in moscow and thanks. so our viewers for watching us here are t c a next time, and remember cross stuck with ah,

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