why do i paint such a dark future for ourselves or is to fear justified? well, today i talk about this with best selling science fiction. author frank shits inc. frank, it's really great to have you with us. so when you write science fiction, it's basically based on reality and for seeing the future. do you feel like sy fi is a tool to to shape the future? can it shape the future? i think it always has been like that. if you look back to isaac asimov, who invented the laws of the robot's arm, he did that in the end of the 60s. and this is exactly what we are now at the moment. currently talking about when we talk about artificial intelligence and robotics, and we know that the idea of the touch screen came 1st from 2001 space odyssey. so technologically there is

a lot science fiction. all those bring in later scientists develop for the common use from a philosophical pond, a few. i'm skeptical cause om neither have i found that this to piece we had in science fiction. ah, like they're written it for as an example, like horrible. did it? no, nor have i found the you to please. ah mm. so i think the reality is much more complex and it always developed in another way than you would have thought it doesn't, isn't it? because when i was a kid growing up, i was so keen on space exploration. it was like the huge error of yes. so the customer, it's american astronauts and every science fiction writer was writing about how our future of quote gonna be interstellar or living on mars. on the moon, and to be quite honest, i'm a little pissed because my future turned out to be on the screen of a phone. so am so yes i am i. i mean,

i'm 2001 the year 2000 was meant to be on a huge tap into a marvelous future. so all the science fiction, all those in the seventy's, sixty's eighty's even told us that we're living ah, in france. well, together with aliens on the consider asian galactic consideration on that. there is a global governance which will rule us and all the things what happens. we got george w bush, donald trump, can co dash him. so it got worse than we could imagine. and the nothing happened, we still have wars, we still living on the planet in national states. so this was a bit disappointing. i agree. but if you look at the science fiction ideas today, what he, what science fiction ideas do you think will be relevant in the future?

a reality of tomorrow? where think at the moment we're not talking about the real bats. dist, topic visions anymore. but we're talking a lot about artificial intelligence and we started to talk about how extra terrestrial life really could look like. if you look at early sounds fiction, you find out that the aliens, more or less alders were humans. so they're symbolized and characterized some of our best or most negative awe behaviors, but they never really were aliens. they were in the cold war when the americans did sense fiction movie theaters mostly asked, sorry for that. were russians because they were afraid of russian. so that's worth the source of, of the alien invasion movies. and though, later on with steven spielberg, they stood for

a set of new are really room religion. so they were kind of angels coming from the skies much wiser than we are and so on. so i think and because we are dealing with artificial intelligence, which is so totally different from our way of thinking and the opportunities that one, they may be machines get a consciousness on that. at this point it will be to, they're very different for us, very difficult for us to do with the oh, we start thinking about um, what, what comes on to us in films like x, mark in our friends? not sure you have seen her or her lead was the one and that is for scarlet. your hands and it's just her. i'll her. yes, i think you've seen that one or arrival. have you seen arrival with the aliens 1st? they are peaceful 2nd, they're really completely different from us so that we do not understand them. and it's about communication thing using that could be part of the teacher of the real

thing. so i think so there are in some shape or form aliens, it will be something that is completely different from the human race and not necessarily evil. right? yes, but um, moment at the moment currently, scientist turned again to that if that be a context of physical contact with aliens, that in most cases it wouldn't be peaceful. ah mentioned this an interesting trilogy at the moment from a chinese, the other i always forget his name or the decision. you think he is of the 3 sons? yeah. and he talks about how it is to live in on, on universe, together with millions, maybe millions of intelligent civilizations. and everyone is very, very afraid of the others. and so the both of us we can meet and we talk to each other and very quick to find out that we can be friends. but if we talk about another civilization which lives maybe in another galaxy,

it is very hard to communicate. so once that we really physically meet, i think on there will be a lot of miss trying each other and everyone is protecting himself and maybe we, they think about striking 1st. so we should be maybe lucky not to meet them. so i just want to talk a little next we're going to get to the by artificial intelligence and what that can bring manatee. but before that, i want to talk a little bit about what you do exactly which is writing that great science fiction been warm and tearing. and butterfly ela that is that those are books that depict scary future of not all sy, fy movie. yes. but for aries, attaining yes. so what i was gonna ask you. so is it really for entertainment only is human fear, like and necessary condition for entertainment? well, our nature is that we are fearsome here. some fears, some, and on the same hand that we are very afraid we are all was anxious. so in order

because of our fears, we tried to be fearsome to scare the others. and i think, ah, we have, we have, am, or nature is that we are runaway. so we, we, we panic panic as for instance, something which helped us to survive. so we are afraid of a lot of, of things. yes. if you had to say a humans are more excited about the future or more afraid of the future, which one which at the moment they're very afraid of the future. it always depends on the time we live in a therapy. also, the 2nd world war, ah, was there was still the threat of the cold war. everybody was afraid of atom bombs . but at the same time, when we started to overcome it a bit. so after the cuban crisis and nothing happens. and then the

russians and the americans started to talk to each other. and that was a time when we started to get very optimistic that what we've been talking about, that in the beginning, that old of saw him, there was a war of the worlds. another was a world i'm a star wars than e t on than the very positive visions of steven spielberg. chris said no, there will be peaceful, and there is a glorious future waiting for us, because now we are on the, in the technology h, l m. so we were very optimistic about the future in these days. now my impression is that people are afraid of nearly everything. wherever you live in the world, you have populism arm, you have these new leaders who are giving very and the complex answers to people without education. people full of fears who do not really understand how the world is developing, who didn't understand the new technologies, like artificial intelligence, but just of afraid of losing their jobs. you have

a climate crisis, which means that you have lots of migrants. first of all, we had migrants coming for political reasons, but now we see that in the near future, i probably will get a lot of migrants coming because of climate change. so there are a lot of things people get very afraid of, and they wish back a past never having existence but being promised by the popular leaders. and i see it in these days, or whenever i talk to people about hope and, and optimism and about a good technologies that they, they, the, like a reflects, they say no, that all that. huh. so we need to do that. we need to do something about that. do you think a future can at any point be defined by anything else than economics? because if you look at it, economic necessity is the driver for innovation. i mean, people knew that cars pull it, people knew that pumping goal isn't like

a great thing, but they kept doing it. and but, but the didn't know that it was dangerous to them all to anybody else, but that was still like an economic drive. and now we're, we're real about the climate change and we understand we need to go green. so the money goes about being green. it's still an economic necessity. it's still like an economic direct. it is something else than economics. can it to fancy chair or is it canal is always the primary source that they is the future. they cannon a massive way. ah, but you need the support of millions and millions of people, of course, on the politicians and the economical leaders alone can't do it. because if they haven't got the supporters around them, then again, um, you need to tell people that arm, they have to change their way of thinking maybe though their life philosophy cause um of course, but a lot of people lose the jobs but changing things. but maybe,

isn't it an interesting vision that one day we will say, overcoming of work as we know to day is something very good because it gave us the opportunity to develop our um, empathy with other people being they were yourself. you mean it with humans mystic in a rich land like like we are here in germany? are we to not afford arm a room enough personal to on her for, for the old and for the hill people, sir, we have so much money. but these are, people are extremely underpaid. are those who help ill people, old people on thursday. so why is it like that? because everybody's busy. so maybe we should arm change or we are thinking and you,

you had another question. i didn't really answer it. i think that a global change will come anyway. yes. and now if we really act on therefore, i'm so grateful. thankful that the young people at the moment are going up the street because we hadn't have, haven't had that for dictates of young people. i went on protesting, now the do, ah, but, and i think we also, we should fight global warming, but we should have a plan b if we don't make it. because if the global warming comes on, if the chain we shall plan me unless you want a car, there is no slam the, you know, imagine and 20 years you have a situation like we don't have only 2 degrees of maybe 3 degrees warmer than to day . what does it mean? first of all, that doesn't mean that the weather changes. yes. you have more storms in our region, mom at at it means that the permafrost, ah, not the only the currents in the oceans,

but the continental shelves and the permafrost regents. ah, if the eyes, when she was there, that means that a lot of methane gets into the air and then you get a climb, a chalk that will mean that within 50 or 60 years, you might have a global warming of 15 degrees. and this is extension. so we should have a plan b, what we will have one planets and there is no plan b was take to plant a where we don't have that climate change in 1560 years for science fiction. all the sofa plan, the so what after that but their plan b. so why in the beginning you asked about how science fiction today is being defined and what we're talking about if we look at the future. um, if you look at the movies that you see a lot of movies which again are about space traveling about or like into still are for instance, stood or at astro. now with, with respect that. so again, we start to talk about building big spaceships for generations,

maybe and going to other planets. frank, we're going to take a short break right now when we're back. we'll continue talking to best selling. sy fi author, frank. shad saying about what the future holds for us. stay with us. ah ah join me every thursday on the alex simon. sure. i'll be speaking to guess in the

world of politics. sport, business. i'm sure business. i'll see you then. oh, we're seeing high levels. one certainty creeping in economic life, and i think we're all aware of the disruption of global supply chains with spike in the cost of energy. we're seeing a reappearance of inflation and i think all of these constitute the economy, scroll down to sign risks, which could mean the good weather is still ahead of us. despite the moderation of the severity with we're empowering ourselves to be more efficient quicker with our transactions. but with that comes a trade off. every device is

a potential entry point for security attack. any machine can be here. it's an extension of traditional time. the defenders have always been one step behind the attackers both with welcome folks in washington. it's not a matter of if it happens, it's a matter of when we're back with frank shad saying best selling sy fi author frank. let's now go as far as living and other on other planets as a plan b. let's stick to plenty where we save our plan and we stay on planet earth, lynn. i so about what kind of humans are we going to be here on earth in 203050

years time. i mean, look at the internet. that is actually sort of taking everything in with the social media and with, you know, our habits that are completely different. now we don't have taxes anymore. we don't shop anymore. it's even easier to didn't have sex over the internet than to actually do it. and re live, so i know some people who still do it in real life. i mean, yes, but more we go on and this is gary thing to me because i still come from a generation where internet wasn't there. when i was born. he came somewhere midway through, but then when i look at the younger generation, it is not as much of a necessity for them anymore. and, you know, you have all these like, dolls that they sell as partners in japan. they're like 5000 euros and they're like queues to get them because people are sort of tired of crying in the pillow and being betrayed. so here you have a partner that smells like you want talks like you will never betrays you. and

people are lazy, especially men, sorry to say that. so i feel like with internet it is changing completely and fundamentally who we are as human. we're going to be in 203050 years later, and i feel like you predict future in a way what kind of humans are we going to be in 2030, 50 years time. it was always fluent. we. we've always been in a state of off of changing and we still will. so there is no, no final points to say. now we are perfect and now or now we've lost it. ah, i'm old enough. and as you just said, you are also old enough. ah, that we remember time without internet and, and mobile phones. so we can compare and we can say, ah, it was better than her. but the kids grew up today with internet and with mobile phones. the do not know how it was without. so they don't miss these former times

and we, ah, when we were were children. we were used to automobiles. we can't compare to coaches with horses. so unsure in the beginning when the autumn of motive came on, there were journalists who are awesome. people ross, what they think about these new things, and i'm a journalist, certain 1910. i hate these automobiles and i'm very, very sure i'm pretty sure they will vanish very soon because they haven't had any chance. and he was asked, why do you think that way? and he said, because a machine can never love me the way an animal do, does so and guess what? he was referring to horses. so and so far i think we shouldn't be nostalgic, never. so we should appreciate new technologies because due to quality, we live in the best world ever. or from a medical point of view,

we live in the best world ever. technologies have changed the world in a way that now they're still poverty, of course, and unjust. but are on the same in the same way. you see that people are more than ever connected, which gives us the opportunity to help each other to listen to each other wherever we are on the planet. so i am optimistic about technology. the problem i think with, with our species is that we are able or to develop and bill technologies for a time coming maybe in 50 years or a 100 years. so our technologies fits perfectly well into the future. but we can't mom change oh way of thinking in a way that we can harm vision lies how we will think and how we will feel and how our needs will be in 50 years. so our own dive or our own technological developments are always further on than our ability to feel. but i

mean, that's the key point because everything that has to do with technology and virtual virtual reality and more time goes on more, we go into it and it's an inevitable fact more willingness to very basic human things like you know, sense is tactile through we really think so. i don't think so. i don't think so. i think it was always like bout that. we had to take care with new to luna technologies. ah, you can develop a technology in the very wrong or the very right direction and is always if you're at, at the, at arm they're both ways are possible. and mostly people go both ways and we, we always have to, to kick, take care, especially now with artificial intelligence that we can develop these things in the right direction. but are we still human beings? i'm a researcher and talk to each other and we do not meet on sir and skype. so we sit in a room together and talk about it and you have some intelligent questions and i hope

i have some traditions answers. so are we are not lost? do you know what? this great theory of feature or journalism is the most expensive thing in the future will be at personal human contacting terms of journalism. exactly. because everything else will be actually be done on line and virtually no artifice. artificial intelligence is going to be very expensive in albany, wells, them evaluating mass data. so are in the past or still to day you as a journalist, if you had to write about some certain things, maybe what is going on the syria or what has gone there are there. then you have to read a lot of stuff to, to see patterns and to see what has happened in the past and to filter out the relevant information for you. and of course, this was very expensive. so, so artificial intelligence can help you with that. and doesn't mean that the,

the i is the better journalist you still are the but the john was. but it simply helps you to concentrate of the most significant thing that we both sit together and we have a human contact. we talk to each other as human beings, but then again, because you're a sci fi writer in your know that this is also a scary story about artificial intelligence that is playing games with the humans who have created it. that's a scenario that um oh, not a lot but so humanity is divided in 2 parts. one half that says that artificial intelligence is just our collaborator and he cannot bring us any harm. no, dear desk, and then there are others who are saying will wait till a singularity comes along and then we'll done. that's where we cease to exist. and so that story we're, you're reading, artificial intelligence, play games with humans is actually a popular scenario of the future. where i am takes over humanity because it just

realizes that it doesn't nit humanity anymore, and there's just smarter they can develop their own. saw an artificial intuition. so they get rid of humans to think something like that is remotely possible in the future. there are about half a dozen series scenarios about the developing sort of artificial intelligence on the, on our road dawn is only one which i'm deeply convinced can happen. because there is one important thing about it. at the moment, ah, there are more or less only specialized artificial intelligences, which means systems which can play chess or go or steer an autonomous car or, or analyze a medical data and help us, which is stunning, of course. but are such an an a i, which is it's very good in detecting

a cancer cells better than any doctor could do is are not able to realize the difference between the car and the dog so that they're really not dangerous to do. we don't have to be afraid that such an artificial intelligence has the will to overtake mankind as we are talking about on the strong artificial intelligence, which has got a whole sense making picture of the universe and every digitalized data in the universe and is able to put these data together in terms of giving complex answers to the world. so as long as this artificial intelligence hasn't got a consciousness, it hasn't got any will. that doesn't mean that it can't destroy us because it got something wrong. but there is no bad will. there's also no, not good,

no good will. it hasn't got on the over to an existence. but when the point comes, the day comes and i'm very convinced that the, this will happen. it has to happen that a machine gets a conscious us. because forgetting a consciousness of science says we need bodies with our sensual cells. so we need our central cells are in contact with the outer world. and this exchange leads to that we are not only in the world what we are getting a picture of us being in the world. so we are looking on us. this is consciousness and a machine will get consciousness. and if it gets consciousness, then it's got, it has a character than it has life than it has a will. and then we should have early enough soon enough. make sure that it's that it's still we be all partner. well, when you come out, mich gonna is gonna be anything as irrational as a human act. that's

a debatable. it will be totally different from us because it, it hasn't got our chemical biological history. and it is far from having our needs . but it will have other neat, frank, it's been such a pleasure speaking to you. so thank you. yeah, i go by. well, you do this again? yes. i think who will have the opportunity perfect. think like what i want to do. yes. yeah. cool. ah there is no shortage of growing tensions in eastern europe. there is the growing e, you bear with stand off over illegal migration. there are western reports. russia is amassing troops within its own borders. and of course,

there is the self inflicted crisis of european energy supplies. it is no coincidence, some recalling this hybrid war, but who is hybrid war against whom? new york is really what america is about. ah, when our mayor took our place, he was elected because of his campaign on our city, being a tale of 2 cities, the haves and i have not. and those who have not are usually the ones who weren't being buried on hard i. the city is always wanted to forget about hold island. city is wanted to forget about the people who are buried there. it's wanted to forget about the fact that there is a potter's field that there was a place where difficult stories are hidden. the fact that we're using inmates to maintain this active burial site, where 1000000 souls are buried,

where so much of new york city history is buried, is documents of the inequality that exists in the city for centuries. ah, for yourselves to be more efficient quicker with our transactions. but with that comes a trade off every device p as a potential entry point for security attack. any machine can be here. it's an extension of traditional time. the defenders have always been one step behind the attackers post the room was one comes option in los in. it's not a matter of, if it happens, it's a matter of went with

the headlines, an rti, germany becomes the latest d u country to calm down on the unvaccinated, making certain public places off limits also this out over half a century. that's how long america's drugs watchdog once in order to release all the documents relating to its approval of fives, is coded faxing. it follows a freedom of information request by a group of medics and american tv use network. m s m. b. c is banned from the controversial u. s. trial of coll rittenhouse after one of their employees is accused of tailing the jury back ah.