called levels approximately seen are a very large factor in people, not trusting the message of the government and actually not wanted to take up medical advice when it's off. okay, gentlemen, it's been really good to talk. i'm sorry, we're out to tom. i've had to cut you short really appreciate your time. thank you . if you lie from moscow, this is our t o next update in half an hour. ah, i ah, i'm ashen retents. are you watching going on the ground on the birthday of the father of spin american propaganda pioneer, edward benet's coming up with a show running out of time to save humanity from extinction. we talked to the

suicide squad thinker, peter capacity, the legendary environmentalist actor, whose role is malcolm tucker, personified, tony blair's iraq warriors spin and arguably war on the cods. again, nearly 30 years after nature destruction of socialist yugoslavia, we speak to the man who implemented the 995 new liberal, dayton agreement that divided bostonians from serbs and croats as one of the poorest countries to want to join the u. mosmyer faces another hard winter, all of them all coming up in today's going underground. but 1st, today's the birthday of edward benet's credited with creating modern public relations critics of a bar, a strong and government here overseeing plans for new oil, gas and coal exploration. after cop 26 believe that spin is winning the war of information. and one actor who has experience playing spin doctors is pita capacity, the environmentalist, known for roles in the thick of it. linked via armando a, a new cheat of iep and succession has also played dr. who and the thinker in the suicide squad. he joins me now from la pita. welcome to

a going underground. i don't know whether it is something from the a cynicism in some of the or the pieces you being and obviously the think of it comes to mind that amongst the cop 26, a great speeches that were heard, the coverage of the summit on the environment as the little little known fact about an oil and gas field being explored in shetland that you are concerned about . yeah, yes, i think called 26, you know, and did many remarkable things, but me and i felt it was a bit of a discipline and a little bit of a p r opportunity for an awful lot of governments to say that they were doing the right thing, and i think there's a great danger that just claiming to be on the side of a being aware of climate change is not the same as actually, you know, creating general policy that makes

a difference. so i think we have to be very careful to keep the pressure up and say, sorry peter, but we had a lot dba on who i think we both know is john gama, from decades ago, who is on the main climate group advising the government, who immediately said this is not an issue, the boards, johnson or the government to get involved in. we have democracy here. that's why a decision over coal in cumbria or the camber oil fields early. we should just wait and see what happens rather than oppose it as efficiently and say, the government must do something now about shutting the at the very idea of fossil fuel exploration down amidst the possible climate calamity without presupposes a trusted government. witcher, i'm afraid, doesn't really exist. and mamma them, i can't see how morris johnson can claim to be a climate change leader. ah, when he allows raw sewage to be important to the southern caesar and rivers to

which is, you know, he'll be very quick and i'm afraid i, you know, i did watch in the loop for that grateful me here in the, at the day. and it seems a bit like that, but you know that there was a sudden you turn about me raw sewage. you know, the thing is, i, you know, i'm not a politician. i played martin tucker who was a very sharp and clever spin daughter who is very plastic, talking and fragrant things are gonna know who i am. i i'm, i've decided to become vocal about this because i'm a parent and now a grandparent. and i'm really concerned about what we are leaving behind for, for, for the, for mon, can't government us, do not seem to be taking this seriously enough. i mean, the candle oil field is you know, oil is that is one of the key things that we've got to stop using. so how come this

government be trusted? terms of its climate credentials when it is creating we're going to be flooded with more of the very thing that we have to avoid, you know, and what they're doing really is they are creating an environment where the u. k. is the best place for or producing corporations, the cancer, i mean, the tax laws, the, the economic environment here is very welcoming to all just incorporations. and they've said that themselves, you think it's the 1st time that there's mean a crisis or political crisis like this, where people are actually injuring their own children by their decision making normally would be about keeping elite where they want to be and giving their children rich and successful ways, this will obviously hurt their own children, the people making the decisions if they go the way that you fit. i don't,

i don't know. i mean, it reveals a sort of kryptonite lack of imagination or a credit plan adherence to the idea of profit. that's all, that's important. that's all. that's all that our government does is to so that, that money keeps floating. yeah. i mean, we've seen with the coven crisis, how governments can respond to angle crisis in a very powerful and bowl and bold kind of way. and that's the way they have to respond to this. you know, it's not enough just to, to, to make their possible re vote for us happy. or is it that elite feel the money aspect is more important just as with cove. it, as we know here in this country as regards contracts, the immediate reaction. so, so the critics of the government here is they wanted to make money out of the coven pandemic. similarly, the environmental aspect here is,

let's make some money out of a carbon offsets carbon trading. this or i think it is all about money. ultimately, i think that is the most powerful force. and also, i can't help thinking that we are, you know, constantly being at to fight it. you know, this seems to be a constant process going all of us having us all squabble among each other. about other issue, you know, culture was whatever it might be. when in fact, as this major crisis that needs to be addressed fully and should be placed at the center of government policy. ah, but i can't help thinking that you know, that the more people can't to part the more that this profiteering can go on. one of the amazing things about the response to, to, to, to the climate crisis is that it has, it's happened because of people. i mean, the only reason way here talking about the only reason that is,

that is i was in the media is because ordinary people have just said, you know, this is a problem that has to be dealt with. and i don't speak, you know, as an activist or as a protest or, and, and for just speaking the reagan, a parent and regular parent. but i'm sure maybe you didn't see the classic. so go mainstream media type of package on this. i'm not sure about the chapter one, but certainly the colon cumbria, they interviewed people obviously very hard hit by the city of london crash and the people on the margins of society. some of them being saying are, look, a oil gas, coal. we need those jobs and you know, it's more complicated than you know, you think, and i know that you've been someone who rejecting the idea that actually jobs come out of your ideas about the environment. then i think this is all, this is all part of and it's about what i'm saying about a lack of imagination. you know, on the, on the side of government, of course, you,

your fossil fuel workers are responsible for climate change, you know, then livelihoods, or a state, or a whole communities that are depended upon fossil fuels for their existence. we have to be all encompassing. we have to figure out a way in which those communities and those people who make alive heard from that business can be looked after. whether it's in and retraining or finding some kind of subsistence in some other kind of way. we've got to embrace this whole thing. i can't come up with ideas to do that. i don't know what to do, but we've got to stop to say it's either profit or climate faster. so much of the change in perception about the environment is come from the arts, let alone scientists obviously are battling with, as we now know from a i don't know wiki leaks, papers that there's been a deliberate attempts to stop the public understanding about environmental threats

. now why do you think, what do you think you've won doing the artists and writers and scientists of one against that or other people spinning against her against the environment today? no, it's not a, it's, it's, it's, it's not her a, when a loose situation other than we are facing catastrophic climate faster. you know that that is the losing, the battle we have to win is to make sure that we can maintain, you know, global 1.5 center grant. the idea that is artistic people and people on the edge of society versus i kind of global elite or corporations. you know, the maybe some truth in that ah, but it doesn't really help. you know, i don't see why you can't be, you know, at why you can't be part of a corporation and also worry about your future. but we had,

we had jonathan porridge on a previously an advisor to prince charles. and he said very clearly that when he was working, maybe even now realizes there was a lot of green green wash as, as, as we call it. i mean it, i mean mark rilen was on the show. he said, i'd shakespearean ac. then he said that the, or he was leaving the r a c at that time because of the sponsorship by a fossil fuel companies. i mean, it, some people out there going to think specially some young people. and maybe maybe they what you in the role as malcolm dug that it's impossible to beat the kinder spin that. gov 26 is a great success that the politicians know what they're doing and to have confidence in them and that campbell royal field. this is just a stop gap and later it can be decommission. no and anything is possible. anything's possible. you know, all we have to do is to listen sadly to the truth. decide what is right and

pursue it and also come together to do that. you know, it's, this is not a done deal. you know, we can, we can face this if we get together and pursue it, you know, actively and passionately. i mean, i'm not sure whether you saw about how power stations here and are using bio mass. and what they say is the plan, the tree in the developing world, and that has been exposed. that tree will be a little sapling that there is to go laser and how she was more sorry she was. i'm sure there is an awful lot of spin like that, you know, and it takes, it takes a lot of effort to, to, to friggin lol. i'm going to pretty soon see and find out what the truth is. i don't know how valuable that i as time spent doing that i i think it's right to be suspicious. i think it's right to distrust corporations. i

think it's right to. unfortunately, i think it's right to distrust the government, which i feel really sad about saying, but i think that's where we are. and that's just, that's just the way it and we have to get together and move forward and continue this fight. i mean, one of the comments with call 20 says and this of media coverage of it as well. you know, das back down with, for the time being. so let's move on to another story and we'll come back to this next year. you know, it's an ongoing day to day. our fight that has to be waged. and i don't know whether whether you can tell me this because you mean there's so many other things . i know you have the new album, suicide squad, your in famous re internationally. all these different things, but if you were the advisor to boris johnson and you were trying to sell it to the country, this camber oil field. what's your view is watch out for his words to be suspicious

of them. as the government obviously does try and sell us the option of more fossil fuel have to come to the fix every word. unfortunately, i don't sit up for comic effect. you know, there's people always ask me, you know, what would martin tucker feel about this, or what would he respond to this? i would not waste my comedic jeans in trying to come up with a mouthful excuses. i just don't believe anything that they say, and that's a tragic place to be. it's not funny. i can't make it funny. i wish i could. well, i hope you come on later in the next time and talk. we're secrets a soon and war maybe with a well the thank you so much. thank you so much. after the break, the e, you guaranteeing peace in europe since $945.00. think again,

30 years after the war, the destroy yugoslavia. we investigate you and me to intervention of the warnings of another war in the balkans. all of them are coming up about to have going undergrad. ah, a my math guys are more of my guy to finance all survival. this is a hedge fund. it's a device used by professional scale, you eggs to earn money. that's right. these headphones are completely not accountable, and we're just adding more more to them. totally, the stabilize the global economy. you need to protect yourself and get inform white guys. you're welcome back. nearly half of young

people in bosnia. i think he of emigrating according to the un. could it be because war is on the cards for the balkans. nearly 3 decades after the near liberal u. s. broke an agreement that split up bosnian serbs and the croats of bosnia. joining me now from vienna is ambassador wolfgang petrocelli, former high representative of bosnia and herzegovina, who after nature bombardment implemented dayton. ambassador, thanks so much for coming on, you know, a circle mainstream media doesn't talk about countries that nato bomb the years afterwards. i don't know libya and we just had remembered sunday the other day. and i don't think many people understand how well will one started in bosnia. why are the crow accent subs? some of them threatening to boycott bosnian elections next year. which would have to go into the history of a particular cross in a search where both on the side of the big themes and the perpetrators. and this kind of situation was replaced so to speak,

in the walls of the 1990 as wow. and it's still very much a part of the gene, so to speak, very much, deeply engrained in the collective memory of the people there. this in my opinion, has not been fully appreciated. also, not fully appreciated, went in 1995 and the american leadership of the war, which was actually a civil war with a war of aggression was stopped in the so called aiden or courts. yeah, the dayton accords of course have come to be seen as highly controversial. some even maintaining the whole war was planned by people like richard holbrook, to privatize and destroy state owned enterprises. in the former yugoslavia. looking back on the agreement that you implemented, what do you make up of dayton economically and geopolitically and what it's done to

the region? well, 1st of all, data was basically to stop the war. i do not believe there were a lot of economic interests on the part of the west involved in all of this. it was really more of this kind of unipolar moment in the broader global history. and the so called victory over the soviet union. by the way, studied americans, which kind of also created a certain hebrews, which means that the west thought that it could somehow construct a piece by basically splitting up with in boston and had to gov enough with ethnic communities. i what i see is basically too much emphasis was put on that ethnic aspect. clearly in my didn't national, mighty ethnic country. it is important to appreciate that ethnic part. but unless

there is a governance around which kind of, you know, which, which kind of out balances said the ethnic component doesn't work. and the dayton accords, and this is my basic criticism, criticism is actually to stop the war under any circumstances, but not to provide a blueprint or a peaceful, a future of bosnia and herzegovina. i'll get to those ethnic rivalries, osama j, i the identity politics of the 2nd. but you just said dayton not much about the economics. well, some people would say classes at the forefront to create tensions between different identities. after all, i mean you were implementing it. you knew the dating under richard holbrooke, the person who some people blame for this. reber needs a massacre, some might say, and you know that some people say that you don't believe that your implementation

of data and the destruction of the health services and so on, contributed to what is now one of the poorest countries in europe. no, i had my own a very personal experience also with richard holbrooke, who of course had a big ego, but basically was not really interested in any fine tuning office installation there at the time. the united states was in such a position of dictating or convincing her every other partner in the west, as well as in russia. just remember that the situation with russia was such because rush from russia was in dire straits than basically russia somehow played along in or this. it was, it was the russian foreign minister ivanov, at a time, was involved also in the, in the dayton accords. but who simply did not really have a big a word in all of this as did the europeans. let's get to that because as you say

back then, i mean, life expectancy falling after world banker, happenings in, in russia, killed millions, arguably in, in russia. but here in britain, a foreign minister was asked recently behind all this, the current tensions lies russia unless we do something very dramatic. this was the question us in parliament of the foreign minister said the hand of russia is a play is pu, tim, behind what is going on right now. the troubles in bosnia, of course, building has a very important role to play in the world. politics also in the balkans are traditional ties between the orthodox ward in the balkans and moscow. but on the other hand, i mean just let's face it in the economic side, more than 70 percent of the interaction, economic business or trade interaction between the balkans and the european union is taking place. so there is only a small rest,

let left for moscow or, of course, also china, which is the new, the new kid on in the town. that's something which is which we need to factor in is a much more mighty polar won't now. and so therefore, a new policy really needs to take place. i personally believe that a relatively small problem, like in bosnia or i'm not convinced that war is imminent. on the contrary, i think people are fed up with the conflict. i think they're russia as well as china and the west europe in particular, should step in and step up to it and say, okay, let's try and resolve this in order to build it. and li, big confidence between russia and, and europe in particular, i will say it's the europeans who are a place that and they should become more active,

be on the one hand more by remaining principles, the principal, but it goes to, for the basic values that we believe in but on the other hand, b pragmatic and tried to approach a moscow in order to try and find a compromise in, in the balkans, in bosnia, in particular, except that as you know, the basis keep it increasing on russians borders. the warships were written in the united states. he's getting of an era that china and bosnia, as far as we know, expresses the desire to join the european union. do you think they should? i mean, the, as you said, chinese investment china, the superpower, the century should be joining the shanghai cooperation organization instead of the european union. well, i don't, i don't think so. i think geography is really that matters in this case. and i think the russians realize putting realizes that this can never be a part that bargains can ever be part of the russian spheres,

so to speak. it is simply part and parcel of europe. and my in my opinion, what really needs to be done is to try and see the long, the picture in the short run of drama, high drama and catastrophe looming economically and above all, as you said in your introduction, demographically, this is the biggest problem. people are basically being boston, had to covina in before the war. and even after the war, when i was there, there were about 4000000 bosnians from all 3 ethnic communities. now dia, down to 2600000 level because of the serbs have lost dramatically from 1200000 280-0000. so this is actually the problem that the host boston is fronted with, but also europe. i think good some people in the global south listen to this will think, hang on a minute though. i mean, we can see cold war tension on the better is poland border. but why should there be

any trust with nations in the united states given their involvement in bombing and causing refugees? that migration, as we know from libby iraq, afghanistan, syria, the list, the list goes on at all. how can they be any honest brokers in this region? and as we know historically, as we started with this is the powder keg that kicked off. well, one clearly and the european union is in a, it's in dire straits in many ways it's an identity crisis, so to speak, who are we to, europeans want to we want to. busy deliver from our nation states to the super national level of the european union. what is actually, what i actually the borders of europe? i think this is what i should even say, historic conflict between russia and, and the rest of europe. so that is actually the question which need to be clarified and this you need to be need to be done in the intellectual way. of course,

the story ends and all and also primarily politicians. and there, i think, to come down to the level of talking with each other, exchanging what is my national interest speaking as mr. pulled in, or russia. and what is the national so called national interest of europe? and i think a compromise is possible. whereas the barton's is one park, i think the real dividing line goes through ukraine. so therefore, i think to start out in bosnia and to find a solution to give in a little bit from all sides, will be a very important 1st step in elite new car confidence. ok, well just finally then, and as you say, china, the big investor that iran, a big investor there now as well. let alone russian investment. why are there 600

european union troops in bosnia, what, what are they doing? we haven't even had a chance to talk about the continuing legacy of the shrubbery, nature issue and whether the united states and britain have an involvement, or whether it was the subs, all of that stuff. we'll have to talk another time about why are the 600 troops in bozeman? well, i think it is that the security issues are very high up on the agenda for the people. they do not trust so much their own politicians. that's the big problem. so therefore, they didn't, your appearance have stepped in european union and like the united states is not a power of institution or a power, so to speak. you know, the europeans, european unit is driven by bringing in the rule of law and human rights and all the stuff. and this i believe is important when, when do you for is day 6 and the troops? of course, these are almost next negligible. i think the more important part is natal nato has

now basically circle it is now encircling a boston taxi pop in the member states for from, from a of us. and now monte ranch on i think this is the more important power factor there. and also, of course, as you see it as a factor of security. so i think in, instead of focusing so much on nato and on this kind of military solution, both capitals, moscow and brussels would be well advised to look for non military compromise institutions. master, thank you and that's after the show will be back on wednesday 26. he has to the day a cia map of a date and divided yugoslavia was placed at the u. s. library of congress until then he would talk to wireless social media and let us know if you think nature

would risk. another war in europe. as tensions are again, on the rise regarding ukraine, we hear about red lines, russian red lines. the west needs to take them seriously, also in the weight of the written house burning. isn't it time to admit late legacy media? live all the time. about almost everything. i saw a message from an unknown account as it had a self re with my pulse board as its profile page. i saw pictures of my documents. it was they also sent a credit contract. if i had just 3 days, you know, comply with their demands. if i didn't send money and they sent up an online hate campaign that i was supposed to be a very dangerous man. with

ah, it feared the number of victims could rise after a car plowed into a christmas parade of wisconsin in the u. s. 5 people were killed on at least 18 children or in hospital 6. critically. we had from a father who witnessed what happened. the kids were down in the kid that i was administering. first aid to both of his feet were like ran over and as blakes were broken. ah a full scale volume stand open, you coded restrictions across europe, while the dutch prime minister dismissed his protest. this is this satisfied idiots on britain.