adult, the country of scotland expressed her team of messages and spun social last week, featuring england football, a joint one on his telling things on the source for racism in society. luis hawk says economic class inequality as he point site, is as much the problem as racism. but not something that likes that media will ever want to address. william nickel says good on you. john barnes, racism is purely ignored. it's in my book. we've all been involved in one way or another. bullying. sure. again, the alex salmon team. gord, mackenzie, says mr. bonds, his most eloquent, passionate but measured. i thought people can episodes. and finally duncan mccourt, he said he's right. you can have a colonial history. was tight racism, whether he's moved on is a key issue and racism, iso sport or anywhere else. you have to kick racist out to sport, and that's not happening. stan scotland, where it asks mcduff in shakespeare's mcbay, clearly not in fact,

cancer in owen's ugly edwards music which charts high scottish nationality has refused to be absorbed into a greater british project. and for the last generation, i find as meter just in cultural institutional expression, but in the form of direct political challenges. today he talks to alex about scotland, past present, and where this is all taking us to in the future for the edwards. thank you so much for joining me in this special ed unders day edition. alex, it is a wonderful honor for me to be on the show with you. you have been one of the greatest men of our time as far as i'm concerned. where is she keep talking late like this interview? don't go very well at the door, down the spook nations and national isms which i've read because you were kind enough to, to ask me to, to do the pre face, which i was proud to do. a book about all 4 nations, say, ill, scotland, england,

wales, and ireland that you know, the, all the, the nations of these islands. would that be correct? yes, certainly. and also of course, it's looking at faro influences on them from the old and new testaments from homer. and what people picked up from him, from virgil and from shakespeare and james and sick from 1st. all of them people making some vital contribution, but not telling the whole story by any means. but what about they elephant in the room on the elephant in the bed? we might say a coating, pierre trudeau, a english nationalism, or on british nationalism. what's the, the genesis of that? well, and so that is concerned. we don't understand nationalism unless we realize that everybody is the matchless. and so, a great deal of the story of nationalism in these islands has been various

different forms of nationalism, the different countries, english nationalism began partly by being a victim of the periphery is a rating parties from scotland. wyman, as well as from the european continent, breaking up the mission that existed at the time of the fall of the roman empire and been in the later stage. it's more a strengthening england. i'm moving in, in different ways and in different respect on the peripheral countries, whales, ireland, and scotland, the only one of the 3 which wasn't conquered by england. but of course, all these nations borrow from each other and english nationalism. as for example, you could find it in various from the place of shakespeare. you can't say shakes. i believe this, but he commits, all of his characters, appear to believe it. and the irish welsh, the scots borrowed from what they could get from shakespeare and from various other writers, and as the english like it or not,

the severson. but shakespeare settings unpleasantly because he sadly pleased during the reign of elizabeth the fast a was very much a exemplifying and that heralding a english nationalism will plucky england a withstanding the spanish mother. there is later place after the ascension of james, the 6th. and fust a we're very much trying to cooperate with the, the new king in producing a british nationalism without. 2 via an accurate description. yes, i think the name of condemns some 1st having become king of england in 163 after having been a cradle came from 15. $6667.00 deems desperately wanted to make the english and the scots. what mission young with the united parliament, the scots might have been ready to take it. the english weren't and so dames,

desperately trying to make the english think that a union of parliament, as well as a union of crowns and body themselves, would make great britain. and in fact, he was the 1st to declare himself, king of great britain. and he did the cleric with finer belts, the year after he came king in $1600.00 for the year after his accession. now, shakespeare, as far as i can see, becomes indulgent. one of the 1st infections did was to declare that the counter, the chamberlain's company, were, takes parents, his fellow actors, laden, was now to become the king's company. and for fear wanted to have a scottish play. and he needed desperately, scottish advice. and games i think, had a major part to do with it in all sorts of ways. the play is very well informed

about scotland, but also the play teach up again. old mythologies show the play. macbeth actually misses itself on very unfair things about the king macbeth rude for 17 years, and apparently was a very good king from 10421057. but he became a monster. oh, fell through ambition and treachery in shakespeare's play. and that play ends with the english coming in to rescue the scots from cruel. because from that point of view, i deal from james a point of view from public. i thought you were going to follow the very best theatrical tradition and not mentioned that the name of the scottish play. but as your thesis would that lead once that there was a, a conscious effort by james the, the sexton, foster settler, the best read, a monarch can christendom. and arguably, the greatest playwright in history, william shakespeare to create

a british identity. a you argue that was a conscious effort by them walk in cahoots to create that british identity the any much they weren't, they were working together to get this idea of wanting britain fixture. start using the word, britain and british much more than he ever had. and the story of mc best, i'm all still shows things like um, a benevolent figure of an english king doesn't come on stage, but i'm an english single month erosion like teams that are the confessor butterfield time. of course, james was also doing other things to consolidate. and one of them being his insistence on the creation of the great bible, the king james bible drawing in the whole series of theologians, translators, to produce a book, which would be everybody. so he wants to dominate religion. he wants to dominate literature, culture, philosophy. and of course,

one of the other manascale projects of james the fust. it was the union jack, originally a naval flag, quit. he organized a design competition for then became the union flag adopted off of the union with ireland, obviously. so he was interested in symbolism when jesse some parallels between the activities of james, the foster william shakespeare, and we'll let say bought us johnson and b, b, c. well, there are some that in a marketable figures in the b, b. c managed to that their arm being more and more pressure to conform to a much cruder kind of nationalism. both johnson himself and some little learning i gather in classics, which he studied of the university. but he wears what learning he house as much says very likely he produced one of the worst books on winston churchill, which has ever come out. and apparently when regular stores,

moultrie imagining him as being black churchill, he doesn't know scotland and seems almost to run away from having to see too much of it. in this way is, is a bit unlike his predecessor, david cameron's on the night of the referendum in 2014 as to whether it's got to be independent or not. david cameron made much about the fact that his small, some was reading talk and underpants. now that's not sure we're saying that he performed inside from scotland, but it was at least some sort of token reference. and so would cameron's assumptions about his own remotes got him frustration that's not present in johnson's case. and to a certain extent, johnson is rather like a schoolboy people think comes public school by the story, learn off a little bit of a lesson, but not very much of it, and hope he can get by with it. so if this project, the great british project, let's call it that, has been gone for 400 years. i've been what's happened and we have

a scottish nationalism politically researching that we are violent, probably closer to unification than that. it's been for some 100 years and more and will say at least a, a language and literally sensor it will license them is still very, very evident. indeed. so why doesn't the great british project to 400 years ago work wilson, a variety of reasons and one of the most obvious ones was class that the indeed were conscious of being the more severe, the more superior of civilization, technologically, is much more advanced. but also of course, i am very much anxious to seize good land in ireland, which they did the long parliament at the time of the civil wars being one of the ears, it was done. cromwell confiscated a lot of ireland for his veterans and so forth. scotland being independent until

james himself became the king and 163. but after a certain length of time, the scottish nobles and great landowners, anglo find themselves, became much wanting. so class was all over the place and the absence and tufts became the means by which the different nationalities, protesting against what was happening to them, came to identify themselves. since these were the losers in that are entrant. so on that level. so you asking that the sense of scottish identity a, what was kept alive by the working classes of scotland perhaps lightly 1820, a rising and 18. 20 matters, an island, the, the great land, a claims and campaigns of a whole variety of the coding figures of irish nationalism and will through the 4th through the maintenance and through the, the exemplified asa of socialism like khaki, javion, the, and others is that your argument that,

that the sense of identity it was kept alive in the working classes. whereas the, the upper classes would have been quite happy to, to fling the lawton with the, the great british share project. well, you have to think really about the working classes response being what was heard from them. and that's where in scotland, for instance, robert burns learning so much from his fellow workers, small farmers and so forth. um and giving their culture immortality many of burns the songs, the ones the collection as well as the ones which he created. burns gave as it were, scottish nationalism, an identity in song before we're started looking at careful theory or anything like that. even stranger walter, scott, who has a tory and politic, certainly right wing. but on the other hand, he did so much to learn as much as he possibly could of the dying culture of the

lower classes and immortalized. and he became the father of social history across the world. apartment thing out, looking at people instead of merely looking at a successful barons or successful technology, whatever. and in wales, of course, one of the effects of welsh would be to make the welsh a more democratic people to think much more in ordinary terms. because of course, to know the language which was in danger became a great matter of nationalism itself. english was important and so many of the welsh actually did terribly well in english, but the preservation of welch became absolutely key. and that cultural identity stands to them in the way they are far more successful in progress, preserving their different nationalism, been ireland or, and their to for a measure the languages are under us gotten and when they come back in

a few minutes, phillip, precisely the contrasting paths of irish and scottish nationalism and perhaps take you out your field into having we look at the future instead of the history. ah ah shoot don't of this one was a spiritual someone with a some gender walsh of discussion and wanting to have people and yet you supposed to do this? i was asked to follow them over here beside that. so i me at the, within the now there should she can usually should almost by you. so what i'm

going to look up and did is it took the test once and she lives right? yes. the key moments which she is legally asha. welcome back. as the scottish nation approaches, it's nationally, alex interviews, the student when dudley edwards, by his new book and faithful nations and nationalism. but there was an irish one yourself happily settled in scotland for last half century or so. the different paths of irish and scottish nationalism. what was the essence of that explanation? well, the one of them is the big coast company wasn't a conquered country. and it had to be more obviously

recognized as well. at least in theory, playing a part, a partnership in the rule of these islands. this comes out pretty obviously when after 1745, when on it and charlie made his attempt, which made came closer perhaps to success than many people to realize. but after that matter, the highlanders who had followed him were savagely treated at the time. and there was a great deal of lun confiscation, bound within 10 years. they were recruiting the highlanders to fight in the 7 years war. now because catholicism, the main religion an item was the preservation of support for the stuarts there. and because the conflicts originally owned the land, which had been so recently confiscated, that meant the catholic church kept out of the u. k. army or the british army. and

it meant that in a sense, there was a sense of degradation of not being allowed to use on not right. so in the 19th century, great political leaders emerged under the act of union because the owners parliament, which would ban catholics in it anyway. because that was 180601 in dot u k. parliamentary westminster, great irish signals. a rose who in essence taught democracy to the british and used parliament as a whims for getting concessions. and of course, spoke their ideas of nationalism. but daniel o'connell, the great theaters, completely against violence, did what he could to prevent people even dreaming about it from times and so forth . and again, in the latter part of the century when the tremendously effective party, dominant, led by chance to a panel dominating towing out to english governments. and british governments in succession to one another in a 5 and a 6. and then creation of discipline,

showing what could be got from constitutional. he was meant that constitutional nationalism could teach the extension of democracy to the english, to the scots, the welsh. and they made a great achievement there. and yet the printer to remain that in the 20th century. well, the scotch and the welsh very sensibly kept the national reasons non violent. and it became absolutely route and branch for the scottish national party when it came into being that our nationalism would never be a nationalism of violence. but in ireland, the tragedy was, but because of world war one which drenched the word and violence, a protest movement emerged cartoon. so lance was germany in 1916, and of a very small insurrection was started, which was put down brutally by stupid english general who have been left and

charged on maxwell. and the result was, was the insurrections, very unpopular and i'm going to claim, but when the leaders were massacred without trials before them, or just court martials under the military or somebody and nothing told until they're already dead. and this led to a great anger emerging. so to, to the fact that the rising was put down by dublin itself being bombarded and flattened. so dublin became one of the capitals which leon ruins after the 1st world war. and that actually, i think, played quite an important part. and certainly a people say, no, they didn't want to have anything more to do with the country which had destroyed the principal city. i do and argue that was that the same at the moment that the the solvency by which the east arising was put down a crated divide. she, i'm interested because in the 1918 election,

a sudden shin fan wanna landslide victory across island. but the shouldn't fin landslide and parliamentary seats for westminster wasn't as grey as the s m p landslide in scotland and in 2015 and the deep the, the subsequent the elections were there. somebody's had a majority of westminster seat. i'm interested in this. why? in 1980 that a majority of seats were sion fame. eventual result in a free state and an independent republic and put us in scotland, a majority of seats at westminster hudson resulted in any substantial constitutional progress at all over these last 6 years. now, the success of nationalism depends to print an extent on the stupidity, a rich opponent and the sorrows of uterus concerned. well, you might say that the union is so shown a great deal of stupidity and a great refusal to come to terms of the realities of

a national of scotland. that it's quite likely that they will make more and greater mistakes in the future, which are likely to conclude much support from the union in scotland. i will take you out of your field. i own that. that was a historian, substantial american, the historian, the great, a literally forgotten these islands. but let's look at the future that let's look at the crystal ball unless paint live the celtic at countries. and ton le let, let's take your, your native country of island. are we closer to irish unity than at any point in the last 100 years or of the still ceiling difference is said to be overcome across the island over much closer because i mean one of the things which is a guarantee of some improvement in is human relations changing, in fact, in the late

a 20th century because the irish in dublin have specifically renounced an insistence that the 6 counters per there's. therefore they're winning many more friends and much more respect in the north, which they did. so the way in which conflict of the present time, the famous protocol, which is causing so much bad feeling between the u. k and the e u. the one that's been handled the protocol about trade in northern ireland and its trade relations with the larger island that was agreed to creation by ambrose johnson. and he is now in this month of november, i'm making whatever effort he can to trying to deny it. so the motion of northern ireland being kicked around in this way, naturally alienates it. i would say that there is perhaps a great deal of love for the republic,

but there is much more suspicion of london and with it to see the sense of which has all been true of the scottish national says will. london really is not capable of managing northern ireland anymore. yes. that part of it had to survive this dreadful, 30 years civil war and northern of itself. but at the present time, the peaceful time, largely. the very fact that northern ireland itself is being used as a political football means that with lynn as well as the scottish nation must the proof of english incompetence. that is actually much more valuable than shall we say a nationalist strain which kept on talking about grievances and how badly people are treated. the simple statement that the union is no longer fit for purpose. that seems to be the case. as far as britain is concerned, and it's getting more and more like it as far as northern ireland is concerned, where the unity of ireland would be farther away would be if

more attempts are made to bring it about by violence. naturally, that would put northern ireland more and more on the defensive. keep it closer and closer to the interesting you can and the republic what want to have anything to do with violence? they've learned too much. what augusta must make it was to have started off with it . so all that there was a list sent understand what's going to happen in scotland. it with the s a b, a leg totally dominant, but in some ways, politically become them in the electoral success. seems to come from nothing of modest johnson of westminster. i'm not going to concede another test of the independence question. what's going to happen in scotland of the present time? we have the most effective leader as a leader, 1st minister in the shape of nicholas sturgeon. but she is as far as i can see in

the politics of infirm equanimity, that there is a consensus that could seem really to mean that nationalism has been put not into a deep freezer, but theresa into a cooler. and the next phase would be likely to be the absolute necessity for nationalism to assert itself. that's knowledge about what's gotten means what's got and is the of course, the relationship with the european union is over feeling important here. the fact that scotland is denied it's police in europe for which it voted with it. therefore, the less that scottish nationalism simply appears to want to show that it's adult grown up and to really just as grown up as they are in london. the more sense of no, we differ in culture. we differ and politically tend. we differ above all the fact

that we want an egalitarian society. and that is keeping us farther from the english consensus, which is so much based upon class, a danger to any society which really knows its identity comes from equality. and that's what scotland is. and that is bought scotland and it's all additions should constantly remember, equality should be, i think the yardstick. i went to a future progress of scottish naturalism is measured or that we had was author historian as a student of celtic and nationalism throughout these islands. thank you. so much for joining me on this sometimes they it's a great honor and an election. thank you very much. indeed. my knocked off asked 5th famous question in shakespeare's macbeth about the state of scotland. the

answer comes from ross. alas, poor country almost have failed to know it fail. as wonderfully edwards reveals, the great playwright was fully engaged in applying with his ra, picked, and the newly crowned king james to forge a new british identity. i said the desperate nations of these islands, 400 years later, we can conclude that this master plan was a failure. since scottish identity is alive and kicking, and now expressing itself directly and politically. however, all is not plain simply here to independence. this in p may be elect the dominant. there also politically becomes with no apparent strategy for implementing this excessive electro minded to deliver for the people. any opportunity to vote themselves for independence. as a historian, the past is own butler edwards specialist subjects. however,

understanding the path is often the key to unlocking the future. and for now from now it's myself and all at the shoe in skid by, stacy, i'm you hope to see you all again next. ah ah ah ah

and people is nothing they can't ride on police reports in all caps in december 2020, a group of anti fascists allowed a film crew access for 3 months. so if people are organization, if an idea that is a must be opposed that channel out the gate while they may kill that. but he says, but they can say what they believe in. we believe in helping our community. we believe that fascism is one of the major threats to the united states has gotten reuben, this is a chance to see who and t for really are in order for me to extract my 1st amendment right and say that my life matter, i have to be on to the teachers that have hallmark is we can't trust the police, we can't trust the government. we can't trust anyone except ourselves to protect ourselves in supposed to swiss. so full, these double membrane stretches which are like sacks, which capture pushing the cytoplasm and then deliver them to water,

the incinerator of the cell, the license for degradation. so that's what we'll talk to g. m, stored to aide conversation about mandatory vaccines with the public, about the controversial advice of the world health organization to countries. and made europe wide protests against the introduction of compulsory jobs for certain groups. also ahead in the program today. i. oh, rest on looting grips that fringed caribbean territory of water loop over tough new coven restriction, fueling local hostility against the authorities in a politician slash with he go. activists in canada, after a leading green campaigner threatens not oil pipelines, could be blown off. if the government doesn't take action on climate change.