ah ah well come to the alec salmon sure for a suit and do stay special as scots and indeed, much of the rest of the planet looks forward to celebrating our national day on the 30th of november. for an insight into the state of scotland were turned to a new book, nations and nationalism being published on this thing understood from american historian or in dudley edwards, an irish academic who spent his entire working life and has a doctor's country of scotland. but breast to t mills and messages in response was short. last week teaching england the apollo

john vines and his challenging views on the source of racism in society. luis hawk says, economic and class inequality as he points out, is as much the problem as of the system. but not something the lakes of the media will ever want to address. william nickel says good on you, john barnes. racism is purely ignorance in my book. we've all been involved in one way or another 1000000000 show again, the al examined team gord, mackenzie says mr. bonds at his most eloquent, passionate, but measured a thought provoking episode. and finally, duncan mccarty said he's right. you can't have a colonial history without racism. whether you've moved on is a key issue and get criticism out of sport or anywhere else you have to kick rest us out to sports. and that's not happening. stan scotland wait debts, asks look it up. in shakespeare's macbeth clearly not, in fact a cancer in owen, dudley edwards knew that which trite high scottish nationality has refused to be

absorbed into a greater british project. and to the last generation assigned as meter, just in cultural and institutional expression. but in the form of direct political challenge today, he talks to alex about scotland, past present, and where this is all taking us t and or that the read was thank you so much for joining me in the special ed. and as they addition, alex, it is a wonderful honor for me to be on the show with you. you'll have been one of the greatest men of our time as far as i'm concerned. well, yes, you keep talking like this interview don't go very well. it did or about the spook nations and nationalism which i've read because you were kind enough to, to ask me to, to do the pre phase, which i was proud to do it as a book about all ford nation se he'll scotland, england, wales, and ireland, the all the, the nations of these islands would that be correct?

yes, certainly. and also of course, it's looking now to faraway influences on them from the old and new testaments from homer and what people picked up from him, from virgil and from shakespeare and james essex. and 1st, all of them people making some vital contribution, but not telling the whole story by any means. but what about they elephant in the room on the elephant in the bed? we might say a coating pierre trudeau, a english nationalism, or, or british nationalism. what state the genesis of that well and some of that is concerned. we don't understand nationalism unless we realize that everybody is matchless. and so, a great deal of the story of nationalism in these islands has been various different forms of nationalism, the different countries, english nationalism began patsy by being

a victim of the periphery is a rating parties from scotland. wyman, as well as from the european continent, breaking up the mission that existed at the time of the fall of the roman empire and been in the later stage. it's more a strength from england. i'm moving in in different ways and in different respect. on the peripheral countries, whales, ireland, and scotland, the only one of the 3 which wasn't conquered by england. but of course, all these nations borrow from each other and english nationalism. as, for example, you could find it in various from the place of shakespeare. you can't say shakes, i believe this, but he commits, of his characters appeared to believe it. and the irish welsh, the scots borrowed from they could get from shakespeare and from various other writers, and as the english like it or not, the severson. but shakespeare settings unpleasantly because he sadly pleased during

the reign of elizabeth the fast a was a very much a exemplifying and then heralding an english nationalism will. plucky england. they were standing the spanish mother, but his later plays after the ascension of james, the 6th, and fast a. we're very much trying to cooperate with the, the new king in producing a british nationalism. would that. 2 be a an accurate description? yes, i think any much and james's, and 1st having become king of england and 63, after having been a cradle, came from 156667. james desperately wanted to make the english under scots. what mission young with a united parliament, the scots might have been ready to take it. the english weren't and so dames, desperately trying to make the english think that a union of parliament,

as well as a union of crowns and body themselves, would make great britain. and in fact, he was the 1st to declare himself, king of great britain. and he did the cleric with else the year after he came king in 1600 for the year after is a question now. shakespeare saw, as i can see, becomes involved to interesting. james did was to declare that the counter, the, the chamberlain's company were, takes parent, his fellow actors, laden was now to become the king's company. and for fear wanted to have a scottish play and he needed desperately, scottish advice. and games i think, had a major part to do with it in all sorts of ways. the play is very well informed about scotland, but also the play peach up again. old mythologies show the plane macbeth. actually,

this is itself on very unfair things about the king macbeth who ruled for 17 years and apparently was a very good king from 10421057. but he became the monster who fell through ambition and treachery in shakespeare's play. and that play ends with the english coming in to rescue the scots from cruel macbeth. and from that point of view, ideal from james a point of view from public, i thought you were going to follow the very best theatrical tradition and not mentioned that the name of the scottish play by s your thesis or dudley edmonds, that there was a, a conscious effort by james the, the sexton foster. certainly the best read, a monarch can christendom. and arguably, the greatest playwright in history, william shakespeare. to create a british identity a, you argue those a conscious effort by them walk in cahoots to create that british identity. the any

much and they weren't, they were working together to get this idea of wanting britain extra start using the word britain and british, much more than he ever had. and the story of macbeth, m all still shows things like um, a benevolent figure of an english king doesn't come on stage, but i'm an english single materials like teams that are the compressor. but the same time, of course, james was also doing other things to consolidate. and one of them being his insistence on the creation of the great bible, the king james bible drawing in the whole series of t. o. jones, translators, to produce a book, which would be everybody, so he wants to dominate religion. he wants to dominate literature, culture, philosophy, and of course, one of the other manascale projects of james the fust. it was the union jacka,

originally a naval flag, quit here, organized the design, competition fall then became the union flag adopted after the union of ireland, obviously. so he was interested in symbolism. we've jesse some parallels between the activities of james, the fast and william shakespeare, and we'll let say bought us johnson and b, b, c. well, and there are some very remarkable figures in the b, b, c. and i suspect that their arm being more and more pressured to conform to a much cruder kind of nationalism. both johnson himself and some little learning, i gather in classics, which he studied of the university. but he wears what learning he has, as you might say, very likely he produced one of the worst books on winston churchill, which has ever come out and apparently with regular stores. moultrie imagining him as being like churchill. he doesn't know scotland and seems almost to run away

from having to see too much of it in this way is, is a bit unlike it's predecessor, david cameron's on the night of the referendum in 2014 as to whether it's got to be independent or not, david cameron made much about the fact that his small, some was reading tar underpants. now that's not true, entirely profound inside from scotland, but it was at least some sort of token reference. and so would cameron's assumptions about his own remotes got him to stretch? that's not present in johnson's case. and to a certain extent, johnson is rather like a schoolboy people think comes public school, boise story, learn off a little bit of a lesson, but not pretty much of it and hoops he can get by with it. so if this project, the great british project, let's call it that, has been gone for 400 years. i've been what's happened and we have a scottish nationalism politically researching that we are violent,

probably closer to unification than that. it's been for some 100 years and more and will say at least under a language and literally sansa, a license am is still very, very evident. indeed. so why doesn't the great british project to 400 years ago work wilson, a variety of reasons and one of the most obvious ones was class that the english were conscious of being the more severe that more superior civilization, technologically, is much more advanced. but also of course, i am very much anxious to seize good land in ireland, which they did the long parliament at the time of the civil wars being one of the ears, it was done. cromwell confiscated a lot of ireland for his veterans and so forth. scotland being independent until james himself became the king and 163. but after a certain length of time,

the scottish nobles and great landowners, anglo find themselves, became much wanting. so class was all over the place and absence and tufts became the means by which the different nationalities, protesting against what was happening to them, came to identify themselves. since these were the losers in that range and so on that level. so you asking that the sense of scottish identity a what was kept alive by the working classes of scotland perhaps lightly 1820, a rising and 18. 20. marked as an island the. the great land, a claims and campaigns of a whole variety of the titling figures of irish nationalism and will through the full for the maintenance and through the the exemplifies, are of socialism like khaki, harvey, and, and others. is that your argument that that the sense of identity it was kept alive in the working classes when as the,

the upper classes would have been quite happy to to fling the lawton with the, the great british share project. well, you have to think really about the working classes response being what was heard from them. and that's fair. in scotland, for instance, robert burns learning so much from his fellow workers, small farmers and so forth. and giving their culture immortality, so many of burns or songs, the ones the collection as well as the ones which he created. burns gave as it were, scottish nationalism, an identity in song. before we're started looking at careful theory or anything like that, even stranger walter scott, who was a tory and politics actually right wing. but on the other hand, he did so much to learn as much as he possibly could of the dying culture of the lower classes and immortalized them. he became the father of social history across

the world to parkman. the thing i was looking at people instead of merely looking at a successful barons or successful technology, whatever. and in wales, of course, one of the effects of welsh would be to make the welsh a more democratic people to think much more in ordinary terms. because of course, to know the language which was in danger, became a great matter of nationalism itself. english was important and so many of the welsh actually did terribly well in english, but the preservation of welch became absolutely key. and that cultural identity stands to them in the way they are far more successful in progress, reserving their different nationalism, been ireland, or different national languages and are under scotland. and when we come back in a few minutes to look for sites for the contrasting paths of irish and scottish

nationalism, and perhaps take out your field into how the we look at the future instead of the sleep. oh, did you know that this is the 400 year anniversary of the very 1st bank stemming? think about that 400 years of thanksgiving in north america. really an incredible miles down with welcome back. as the scottish nation approaches, it's nationally, alex interviews, the student when doubly edwards, by his new book and faithful nations on nationalism that there was

a dilution yourself. happily settled, lived scotland for last half century or so. the different paths of irish and scottish nationalism. what was the essence of that explanation? well, the one of them is the because company wasn't a conquered country, and it had to be more obviously recognized as at least in theory, playing a part a partnership in the rule of these islands. this comes out pretty obviously when after 1745, when on it and charlie made his attempt, which made came closer perhaps to success than many people to realize. but after that matter, the highlanders who had followed him were savagely treated at the time. and there's

a great deal of lun confiscation, but we soon, 10 years, they were recruiting the highlanders to fight in the 7 years war. now because catholicism, the men, religion, an item was the cause of ation of support for the stuarts there. and because the catholics originally owned the land, which had been so recently confiscated, that meant the catholic church kept out of the u. k. army or the british army. and it meant that in a sense, there was a sense of degradation of not being allowed to use on is not right. so in the 19th century, great political leaders emerged under the act of union because the owners parliament, which would ban catholics in it anyway. because that was 1806000101 in dot u k. parliament in westminster. great irish signals, a rose who in essence taught democracy to the british and used parliament

as a wings for getting concessions. and, of course, spoke their ideas of nationalism. but daniel o'connell, the great peters, completely against violence, did what he could to prevent people even dreaming about it from times and so forth . and again, in the latter part of the century when the tremendously effective party, dominant, led by chance to a panel dominating towing out to english governments and british governments in succession to one another in a 25 and 26. and then creation of discipline showing what could be got from the constitutional. he was meant that constitutional nationalism could teach the extension of democracy to the english, to the scott, to the welsh. and they made a great achievement there. and yet the printer to remain that in the 20th century, well, the scots and the welsh very sensibly kept on nationalism, is non violent. and it became absolutely root and branch for the scottish national party when it came into being that our nationalism would never be

a nationalism of violence. but in ireland, the tragedy was, but because of world war one which drenched the word and violence, a protest movement emerged, cartoons on lions was germany. in 1916 and a very small insurrection was started, which was put down brutally by a stupid english general who had been left and charged on maxwell. and the result was, was the insurrections, very unpopular. and i'm going to claim, but when the leaders were massacred without trials before them, or just go to court martials under the military or somebody and nothing told until they were already dead. and this led to a great anger emerging. so to, to the fact that the rising was put down by dublin, it's so spin, bombarded and flattened. so dublin became one of the capitals which leon ruins

after the 1st world war. and that actually, i think, played quite an important part. and certainly a people say, no, they didn't want to have anything more to do with the country which had destroyed the principal city. i do and argue that was that the same at the moment that the the solvency by which the east arising was put down a crated divide. she, i'm interested because in the 1918 election, a sudden sion fan wanna landslide victory across island. but the shouldn't fin landslide and parliamentary seats for westminster wasn't as great as the s m. p, lam, slate and scotland, and in 2015 and the deep. the subsequent to elections were there. somebody's had a majority of westminster seat. i'm interested in this. why? in 1918 that a majority of seats were sion fame. eventual is out in the free state and an independent republic. a put us in scotland of georgia,

your seats at westminster hassle, assaulted in any substantial constitutional progress at all over these last 6 years . now, the success of nationalism depends to print an extent on the stupidity, a rich opponent and the sorrows. the future is concerned. well, you might say, well, the union is so shown a great deal of stupidity and a great refusal to come to terms of the realities of a national of scotland. that it's quite likely that they will make more and greater mistakes in the future, which are likely to conclude much support for the union. and scott, craig, i'm going to take you out of your field. i own that, that once i, even a historian, get substantial american, the historian, the great, a literally forgotten these islands a. but let's look at the future that let's look at the crystal ball unless paint live the celtic at countries and todd le let. let's take your,

your native country of island. are we closer to either humidity than at any point in the last 100 years or of the still ceiling difference is said to be overcome across the island over much closer because i mean one of the things which is a guarantee of some improvement in is human relations changing, in fact, in the late 820th century because the irish in dublin have specifically renounced an insistence that the 6 counters per there's. therefore they're winning many more friends and much more respect in the north, which they did. so the way in which confess to the present time, the famous protocol which is causing so much bad feeling between the u. k and the e u. the one that's been handled the protocol about trade in northern ireland and

its trade relations with the larger island that was agreed to created by a bar of johnson. and he is now in this month of november, i'm making whatever effort he can to trying to deny it. so the notion of northern ireland being kicked around in this way naturally alienates it. i would say that there is perhaps a great deal of love for the republic, but there is much more suspicion of london and with it to see the sense of which has all been true of the scottish nationalist as well. london really is not capable of managing northern. i'd have been a more yes that part of it had to survive this dreadful, 30 years civil war and northern of itself. but the present time, the peaceful time, largely the very fact the northern item itself is being used as a political football means that with lynn as well,

the scottish nation must the proof of english incompetence. that is actually much more valuable than shall we say, a nationalist street which kept on talking about grievances and how badly people are treated. the simple statement that the union is no longer fit for purpose. that seems to be the case. as far as britain is concerned, and it's getting more and more like it as far as northerners concerned, where the unity of ireland would be farther away would be if more attempts are made to bring it about by violence. naturally, that would put northern ireland more and more on the defensive. keep it closer and closer to the existing. you can't. and the republicans want to have anything to do with violence. they've learned too much, or i guess they must make it well to have started off with it. so oddly have us, unless sometime this day, what's going to happen in scotland?

it with the f. b, a leg totally dominant, but in some ways, politically become them in the electoral success seems to come from nothing of modest johnson of westminster. i'm not going to concede another test of the independence question. what's going to happen in scotland of the present time? we have the most effective leader as a leader, 1st minister in the shape of nicholas sturgeon. but she is as far as i can see in the politics of infirm equanimity. that there is a consensus that seem really to mean that nationalism is being put not into a deep freezer but theresa into a cooler. and the next phase would be likely to be the absolute necessity for nationalism to a circuit. so for the knowledge about what's gotten means what's got and is the, of course, the relationship with the european union is over feeling important here. the fact

that scotland is denied it's police in europe for which it voted with it. therefore, the less that scottish nationalism simply appears to want to show that its adult grown up and to really just as grown up as they are in london. the more sense of no, we differ in culture. we different politically tend. we differ above all in the fact that we want an egalitarian society. and that is keeping us farther from the english consensus, which is so much based upon class, a danger to any society which really lose its identity comes from equality. and that's what scotland is. and that is what scotland and it's all additions should constantly remember. equality should be, i think the yardstick. i went to

a future progress and scottish naturalism is measured. or that we had was author historian as a student of celtic and nationalism in fact, these islands, thank you so much for joining me on this. sometimes they, it's a great honor and an election. thank you very much indeed. doth ask that famous question in shakespeare's macbeth about the state of scotland. the answer comes from ross. alas, poor country almost defeats to know it sail. as wonderfully edwards reveals, the great play light was fully engaged in applying with his ra peach and the newly crime king james to ford, a new british identity. i said the desperate nations of these islands, 400 years later, we can conclude that this master plan was a failure. since scottish identity is alive and kicking and now expressing itself

directly and political. however, all is not plain simply here to independence. this and p may be elect the dominant . they're also politically becomes, with no apparent strategy for implementing their success of electro minded to deliver for the people. any opportunity to vote themselves for independence. as a historian, the past is when berkeley edwards specialist subjects. however, understanding the path is often the key to unlocking the future and for now now as myself and oh, at the show, it's good by stacy, i'm hope to see you all again next. ah ah

ah, to what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race, movies on often has very dramatic development only personally and going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very political time. time to sit down and talk to proceed with cells. form double, membrane stretches which are like sax, which capture portions of the cytoplasm and then deliver them to water, the incinerator of the cell, the license for degradation. so that's what we'll talk with

him doing that he will remain on the ground at the moment. according to the representative of the ministry of emergency situations, they have most likely to run out of oxygen by the explosion of the mind in central russia leaves 11 workers dead with more than 30 still trapped on the ground bodies . 3 rescuers half hour. and so, but found thought a conversation about mandatory vaccines with the public. that's the controversial advice of the world health organization to countries. amid europe wide protests against the introduction of compulsory jobs, with certain group and french police, arrested 5 people that are cracked out of human trafficking, gangs, just the day up to almost 30 migrants drown, trying to reach the u. k. paris and london point the finger of blame at each other

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