of case to race, despite those who were shot by the then 17 year old being white. here's what one student association in wisconsin had to say about the ruling. we stand in stock opposition to white nationalism and the killings that follow it. black and brown people across the country should not be targeted and subjected to excessive brutality and violence. the idea that our criminal justice system is so broken as to allow racist acts of violence to go unpunished. it's shameful. kyle rittenhouse was last week acquitted of all charges after fatal shooting to white people. during a black lives matter protests in wisconsin, which had descended into a riot. he said he acted in self defense with footage of the incident appearing to support his claims. meanwhile, the university in massachusetts and electronic storage bestbuy are both offering counseling to people disturbed by the not guilty verdict concerning the speaker evans cy. it thinks the idea most to treating adults like children. this idea

that grow people need to do, do, do have psychological counseling and learn to have days off. it all these things over a legal case that was adjudicated is actually more reflection of the family licensing of the political well for them than it is. they don't get anything until it is going on in the american legal system. there is a movement in america, you know, the political left that sees things only through race. i mean, this is, this is the concept of critical race theory where race is critical to your theories and, and so by definition, this is the only way that they can see any issue in america. it, everything is about race map is now racist. grammar is now racist, according to these people to whom race is always critical to their theories. not to biologists. the phenomenon of or topic is as cool as it gets if like me, new,

have never heard of it. sophie is conversation next with the cambridge university, neuro geneticist helps unlock the mystery. stay close for a can to so he could visionaries me. sophie shepherd not said, i mean human body is wise and knows how to regulate itself. but i, every mechanism, even though the most perfect one, it needs a recent button. well, today i talked to david rubinstein, professor of moleck, ural,

me. we're genetics at cambridge university and were talking about the mysterious phenomena of a ta for g. it's so great to have you on our program today. so tar for gee is like the topic. everyone's talking about it. lots of myths around it. so we figured we'll just ask you straight away, what is all that fuss about from what i understand. so correct me for iraq, a ta for g, like process where cells deprived of nutrients, they started to get rid of damage structures and developed nuance. is this a correct explanation? i clarified it. it's a process that occurs inside cells and it occurs outside the new to say the cytoplasm and it's a process where cells form these double membrane structures which are like sax, which capture, pushes us high to plasm and then deliver them to water, the incinerator of the cell, the license for degradation, so that's

a little tougher g as a process, the idea that it's stimulated by starvation is something about, is conserved from he's to people that it's not always induced by starvation. there are other ways of switching it. all right, so let's clarify what, how do we make the cells go into the artifact stage. so. busy their number of signals that can make a cell go into that type of process. one is if you deprived of nutrients and it can happen with different types of nutrition. so if you deprive cells of amino acids, they can go into this type of process. if you have prod, no glucose, it can go to this process. if you deprive them of energy, it can go into this type of process. but it can also go into this type of process. if you switch on some genes that might be involved in cancer for instance. so it is not restricted. the singles are not restricted to those that all cell stresses

caused by, by sometime neutral deprivation, but k, coots, them in like a very common language. what would you say is a short way to actually start kick start that process in the human body? like if i'm sitting at home and i decide i want to try this because a ta for g supposedly is very good for my organism. it's prevention cures, all sorts of diseases. so i want to try, what should i do? so i don't think that we know enough about that in humans to do the experiment enough to gave me a mouse, nor to do to the mouse. if i stop the mouse for long enough, i can in jesus, offered you many different tissues and many labs have assist. how long you might need to do it to get it to the livers. is the brain, for instance, in the most, in a human, the data also clear. so there's one study i'm aware of where they look in different cells in the plant. and in only one of the cell types that they studied after 20, while starvation could they see

a change in or tufty. now they so they couldn't see it in the other cell types that the analyzed in the blood. i suspect the same as occurring in many other cells in the body as well. so some cells might respond to 20 falls for many others might not . and so those are unknowns in the field. them. i say if you want to really kick startled tufty, they're problem you could to they certain drugs that might do so, but they're probably not drugs that you want to take with how to prescription you couldn't get with how to get to the drugs part for sure. what the price is professor austin oreo sue me, who actually got a noble prize for describing the phenomena. he told me recently from what i could understand, that it only can take up to 30 minutes for your cells to go into a tougher g. if why we stop there is so suddenly start their signal. so you can see it move forward, curry, you can see there on the face yolk as star within 30 minutes or something.

well, the professor zoom he, he's been a pioneer working on the process, but he's really studied east case. so if you study yeast or you study seldom tissue culture, so you you study, they may know very artificial environments. and if you stop them, you can see effects sort of 30 minutes or an hour. but he's just putting that when you stop a cell in tissue culture, you putting the cells virtually nothing. you putting them of water with a little bit of salt. okay? if i did that, your body fall apart, so that your body, of course, when you starve, it's a much longer adaptation to the start ation. if you star for 30 minutes, your body doesn't know about it at all. crystal for a long time, and you still have all the constituents of the blood in the serum and the bodily

fluids, which are not like salt water. so i think it's moving from an artificial context in the laboratory isolated cells and culture to a whole organism. and that's why the 30 minutes is no make sense. i don't suppose is worth asking you if you factors that offer g just would look like it was about losing weight. so i think, you know, the 2 parallel discussions, the one discussion is whether some degree of caloric restriction is beneficial for people on the 2nd is whether those benefits are primarily mediated through topic. i don't think the answer to either is no. so the model organisms like mice i'm, there are some dates and there are some daily and humans actually that alternate. they fostering for instance, improves various medical parameters of interest. but it's unclear whether those

effects in mammals are primarily mediated through sausage. he, it's just mind boggling to me that you're telling me since the very beginning of those chat that we don't know the exact results on people. and on the other hand, we have this whole movement for a coffee and people are promoting and they're basically books coming out and saying how amazing this is for you. and this is like the answer to practically being immortal. yeah. why do you think i want to be what i think that there's a fairly good literature and complete work. but this, there's a sizable literature that argues in model organisms that if you can switch on top of gee, in general, it has been official effects. so. so that's the one argue there's also literacy suggesting and one organisms if you carry restrict, that's beneficial. it's also literature saying that if you tell you restrict to

mouse for long enough you want to use will. tufty. but those old individual strands and the calls, the links between those strands have often not been tested in a rigorous way. so i would say that we need to learn. busy more and do more experiments to try to understand if that's the case. but you can do that in a mouse. we can do it in a zebra for sure. a word. it's very difficult to switch. awful tough, a whole person's body to do a rigorous experiment. you can't actually to do the rigorous experiment in people and so experience and people are restricted in that way. from what we know so far. let's go through what a tough a g can. what benefits could it have on humans from what we know so far? anderson that we don't have the research. i tried to ask this question to present a professor resuming, and he was very, they safe to say the least and maybe i can get some answers for you. for instance, i have

a colleague who is crazy about alpha gee. and she is actually adamant at telling me that her teeth got completely healthy after she started practicing a ta for g. is, is, is something possible or would you say it's more as psycho semantic? well, or topic, she influences many different systems in the body. so it, it, it's roles are to protect against starvation. it's roles are, i'm to prevents the growth or certain organisms and tissues. so it has certainly and seen fixes properties. it can reduce inflammation that might be relevant to fred's teeth. and it's protects against certain neuro degenerative diseases by stopping the formation of or the stopping the accumulation of proteins that tend to clamp in the brain that cause various dimensions. um it's it can affects and the

certain into mune diseases by reducing inflammation. so it can be protected with heart disease. so it has a wide range of benefits if you can induce a to model organism systems. and if you impede it in mice, for instance, then you can create a whole lot of manifestations will make the many, many of these disease models worse to understand correctly. primarily it is because it's anti inflammatory. no, that's one of its properties. i think a bit possible that the anti inflammatory properties might have much widespread implications across a range of diseases than some of the other will. specific roles that i think there are quite good data in point since in euro degenerative disease models. that if you switch on top of a you amplified, then you can protect against diseases. and then i called lamers perkins data with

those types, types of those types of diseases. i think when you what about i've heard somewhere else over there. it could help things like bone fragility, as is a myth node. some of your topics you machinery can affect the bone fragility em. i think those were oldest studies, and it's not clear today whether they are specific towards healthy g, or just parts of the machinery they were going to take a short break right now. when we come back, we'll continue talking to professor david rubenstein, hearing cam bridge, and we're talking about what is a tough stay with us. ah,

b u is in the process of finalizing what is being called the strategic compass for security and defense. this is a shorthand for what may become an e u army. this is not a new idea, and there is no guarantee that will ever come about is europe capable of defending itself in this competitive world? i saw a message from an unknown account, it had a self who with my passport as its profile page, i saw pictures of my documents. it was they also sent a credit contract. if i had just 3 days, you know, comply with their demands. if i didn't send money and they sent up an online hate campaign that i was supposed to be a very dangerous man. with you a tool that was bad for your eyes and your posture that it would stop you from having

real friends and finding a girlfriend. but what they fail to mention is that you can make thousands of dollars every weekend by simply playing video game. a little bit ago we formed the fortunate wesley with georgia was me, with okay much, what we do is no sooner course to make video games a high paying job. you have to be gifted and quick with it. i'm going to open up with the lithium and miss thompson with webpage but yep, i'm young booth but even started yet. glove voice. when you most told me in my video it out. oh, you mean? yeah. was it neil's feel? are you guy of the owner? but that would that be cool, it will still be stuck with these odd to do i also use ah

and were bad was dated. rubinstein here in cambridge talking about the phenomena of a ta for g, david, whatever the brain itself, i'm not talking about degenerative diseases like alzheimer's or per consider dementia. but how does it affect our grain if it could be practice on a human body? so there is a literature which suggests that a ta for g might be important in a whole lot. when your own will find shorts. um it can. i'm removed. there is toxic proceeds as we've discussed. it can also help remodeling. so can, i've changed our capacity to remember, potentially, and it's can, ah, this also literature that it's suggest that it might impact various psychiatric

diseases or bo, the literature will, that these will work. so i, i would say that this, this suggestions which need further work to validate. so i think it might affect a wide range of different cognitive, as well as emotional functions and thinking cancer. because you're saying what that function says to anti inflammatory affection. so what can i do for a cancer? so the cancer literature is complicated and the likely plays different roles at different stages of cancer. so if you have an organism which um has a lack of will ta for g, then it is more prone to the initiation of a primary cancer. ok, but what happens and what frequently kills patients? not the initial primary cancer. it's after spreads to other sites. it's called a metastases, and when you got met a static cancer, then it is believed that or tougher g protects the cancer cells from dying. so then

you want to inhibits water g l. so that's sort of slightly simplistic view of the situation, but it's meant to illustrate that at different stages of the cancer and potentially from one cancer to another, a different effect. so it plays role, but i think the complicated, well, you said something about human organism that has less a tougher g or out of more at off a gen that's very interesting to me because in our talk with professor resuming, he also said something about that at average is going by genes, gears and that it's part of our design. if you have other 80 g genes, that means there are so i have those can machine to turn over the their own proteins. so what, like if i have wrong chains, i can't trigger

a tougher g. very interesting. so there are some very rare cases, very unlucky people who have you take sions in coal, ta for g teams. and they often have early on sits. so they have very little tufty and they have an early on sit brain disease, a neuro degenerative disease. so it is governed by genes. and with this severe dysfunction, you get those types of diseases. and it is possible that the variance, which have very small effects, which we don't understand in terms of their population impact, does the lack or the opposite of a ta for g in one's body has anything to do with immune system? yes, i think it doesn't, particularly in terms of the inflammatory process, but there are other immune functions that are also quite tightly regulated by all tufty. yeah. and at some point, some day we were learning,

we would learn how to trigger a tougher gene, our bodies, and actually, you know, exercise it off a g to better ourselves. does a tough a g level in your body, gro was time with exercise like muscles grow when you exercise in a gym or your brain cells you have, or a memory for us in a sense, basically, yeah, train, if anybody's really looked, that's quite an interesting idea. whether you could sort of in a sense, prime yourself isn't that right. you respond better to. so i don't think anybody's looked at that. um i'm not aware of that. let's put it that way. here's a tip. you should look at. why get no more. so you said except for the calorie reduction. there are other ways to trigger such a can exercise, sugar, 5 country good in certain circumstances,

certain types of exercise in the muscle for ins like i think the well i think you to, if you, again, if you make mice to certain types of exercise, it can trigger on top of g, and i suspect some people. if you do certain types of exits, i will trigger a tough a g. but when one reviews the literature, again, it's a little bit mixed. am i having the reasons why it might be mixed? i few healthy away, she was sick the type of. ready exercise, and then many of the studies haven't been done in people they've been done in mice . and so you know, translating what you've got in a mouse to what you've got in a person. needs a different type of experiment. it's worth having a leather look. here's what i understand from what we understand about average. now it can be an answer to lot of things too, or too many diseases or prevention, at least by the way you think it's more prevention or curing? i think it's often more prevention. i think delaying the onset, you've got a better chance with diseases possible might be able to very difficult secure

diseases. it might be some infectious diseases, for instance, which might be amenable to will tough a g as one among a number of agents maybe in combination. i'm helping to cure but many cases predict back to my thoughts, we're adding a sion is that you have the gold line theoretically that were sitting on top of g that hadn't been fully examined or practice in humans. but it could be an answer to a lot of things, right? you're saying on mice, we know what happens on humans. we don't because it's very hard to practice or experiment on humans. so there's a gap between mice and humans. and what are we going to do with it? i mean, are there any plans or any methods to actually do experiments on humans or we're just going to sit there forever and talk about? no, no, no, no, no, no, i'm look, it's look fairly new field. i think that's when i started working on this at the

tunnel, the century, when you very little about the gene, then mammalian, so there's in 20 years, we've got a fairly good idea about the genes you know, we and others are starting to try to look at ways that we are able to assess, even if it's in directly what is going on, a little tougher g in different tissues in human fil, reading people and looking in the blood. and i think we will have to start looking at other tissues or correlates and other tissues that will be informative in order to answer those very important questions. you're just saying it's question at time until we actually tie with this question of money. but money. i mean, you know, so it's a question of time and money that's i think people are going to be looking at more and more in future because, because exactly what you said, that's, it's a process that has potential for impacting many different diseases. and i'm

potentially, i'm healthier aging so, so i think we do need to understand these processes in humans. how would a human actually know that he has trigger at a ta for g? i do the way you would know. i think we would need to biopsy something, so in the blood you can just take blood. you might, if you wanted to see what was going a little muscle, you'd have to do muscle biopsy. probably. well, you'd have to find a marker which gave you an indication less we'll talk, which was happening in the muscle. something less invasive, but you'd have to measure it in some type of formal sam. do you know a lot of big farmers are actually starting to look for a drug or create a drug that would artificially trigger a ta for g in the human body. i don't know if you've heard about that. i know. so is it a or i can't figure out, is a good thing or do you think it should have been naturally? i think it's probably

a good thing we interested in that area. and the reason is that i'm, i think you'll be able to probably just depends which tissue wants. and so if you want to st induced or tough a gene, the brain don't have to stop a very long time. the brain takes a long time to receive how love it. we don't know in the mice, probably need to stop for close to 24 hours. okay, but that's much, you'd have to do much longer. it a human answered. it might be ways that you can activate or tough a gene specific tissues much more effectively with the drug and potentially with much better targeting. so you might be able to induce a tougher gene, certain places without affecting other cells as well. so i think i was what people are trying to do, and i think because of the magnitude of the effect, as well as the potential to restrict the effect to certain tissues. so if you look generally at ourselves,

processes in our cells is what defines our health. yes. basically, do you think we can ever hope to harness those processes and actually maybe steer them where we would like them to? i think that morn, mole medicine is relying on what core rational drug discovery, and that is based on the understanding what's going on in cells. and so if you understand better how cells work, then we can identify pinch points that we can attack in order to switch process is pulled down with much better control. and so you have to, you're right, we need to understand the fundamentals of cell biology. so are you like in a team of those people who are actually saying yes, madison in biology is entering this new breakthrough. this is like an polco lurch and everything is going to be completely incredible and nothing's going to be same again when we're talking about relatively like trans cart,

trans blends and drugs from aids and a low cloning. genetic engineering, r u. as in susanne take as many or do you think it is not it's, i mean it's the, the way the tools for understanding biology have evolved in the last 25 years. he says, remarkable. i mean, treaty remarkable. and you know, when i was a student, nobody could dream of the prospects of taking human cells and removing every single gene, one at a time to see how it affected a particular process. and all of those types of approaches are becoming almost routine. and so that gives us the prospect of really understanding the way so human self or the human body works much better than ever before. and we really have technology and i think it's about that was would have been considered a dream. i'm tony. hi jessica. thank you. very much for this interview. thanks for

clearing up. lots of next. about a tough again. hope to get that money soon. good for your research so we can start practicing. thank you very much. a join me every posted on the alex simon. sure. i'll be speaking to guess in the world politics sport. business. i'm sure business. i'll see you then. ah.

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