well, to discuss, i am now joined by a hungry minister of foreign affairs and trade various here. i don't mean to say it's great to see you again. thank you very much for your time. now. you've heard me referring to that folk with them about not putting everything under one had but i know that there is another saying and be hanging language is kind of an advice about stretching only as far as your blanket goes. i think the hungarian blanket to say goes pretty far these days are for some guests in russia. you have a solid relationship with china and many other countries where it says that into european union, your home, your family, your country is still treated a little bit like on foreign terrible. why do you think that a little bit? you know, there's a big debate in the european union now how the you should look like in the future. and i think the, the find that the, that this debate is out there should be considered as natural because the european union has been confronted with many challenges basically,

single daniel fleet. so obviously under current circumstances, it's natural to debate to have a debate which way to go forward. and there are 2 basic approaches in this regard. one approach would like to create something like a united states of europe. so a pretty federal istic type of approach. there and the representatives a which would lie to basically overcome the national identity, christian heritage. and the more the most possible competence is should be both to brussels that does their position. then there's another approach. the representatives are which are now in minority. i have to admit which is kind of a sewer and stick type approach type of approach, which says that, yes, we do want a strong here up in the union. but we do believe that a stronger open union can only be based on strong members. things, you know, in preparation of this interview was interesting to me towards some of your earlier interviews from 2015, 2016, dealing with the migration crisis and any of the western journalists,

the particular british and german journalists, called the hungry for non being more welcoming of the of the migraines. compare it with the coverage of the current migration crisis on the bella, russian polish border where the level of indignation, moral integration is far for. 8 a little word, how does it look like from a past that you know, this shifting level of righteousness when it comes to migration issue, luca, i have the luxury to be in this position for more than 7 years now. so i clearly remember who said what 56 years ago, and there are only 3 for ministers in e, u, in the same situation that we were there back in 2015. and i remember the way we were really, really attacked and we were considering very, very hostile way. and those who treated us in a very rude way. they are now giving basically a standing ovation to those who act similarly as we acted back in 2015. so our

position remained on change that the external borders of the european union must be protected. and it is a part of your super anything that you kind of make a decision whom you allow to enter 3030 of your country. and that is your silver and right to make a decision with whom you are ready to live together and to be to minister you said that your position remains unchanged. but i think it's also clear that the european position on the issue of migration has shifted. it's no longer based on the policy of what you called explicit invitation. you know, the other day i watched an interview on deutsch rally with one of the architects of gentleman architects of the deal migration deal with trick him. he was, you know, openly calling for moving those migrants from the polish border into ukraine, not into germany, but into ukraine. so obviously even the germans are no longer in the rush of accepting those people. what do you think has changed in europe on that issue over the 5 years?

you know, i think there's a big heap offer. see, we listen to some, some comments which you have also quoted as if, as if western european countries have changed their position regarding migration. but when it comes to supporting pro migration and deals when it comes to the restroom volcano, when it comes to making incredibly responsible statements regarding the situation in afghanistan, when it comes to when it comes to the mediterranean, there might be some comments which, which sound to be different compared to what has been says since 2015 by the essence, by the essence of the european migration policy remain unchanged. unfortunately. and if you look at the document or the statement or the founding document of the, of the new german government coalition, you will see that this extremely pro migration extremely well. speaking about germany because german chancellor go americal was the main driving force behind the

2015 policy as well as the main architect of the multicultural policy within the e. she's expected to step down pretty soon, and i know it's hard to tell, but i think every responsible policymaker will try to intuit the future. how do you think her leaving will affect both the internal and external dialogue happening in and around the european union? ok, it's interesting because you have to keep, you have to consider this. it won't package with the upcoming french provincial election. and after the next presidential election in france, you will have a new set up of leaders of the 2 strongest countries in the, in the european union. of course, germany is our number one trading part number one, investment partners. so for us, a pragmatic and neutrally respect based relationship is important when the germany, unfortunately recently, especially the german left,

the parties and the german media was attacking goes basically on a, on a continuous basis. for example, the relationship with russia, although expression or seem to is a basically a common or a joint german, the russian expression or as i visited the county colo go today. i've seen the big billboards of, of, of those companies which are present in calgary. and i've seen they're all the because german, french, italian spanish, more than happy working in russia investment. so either way that leads me to another question, do you think there's any connection between the you pull to see if ability to solve practical issues. and it's proclivity to, you know, call other countries names or use variable, or ideological invectives. i think they didn't do those things affect one another. i mean, they, they call you names, they call last names, but they still do business without that, that affect anything in practical terms. yeah. it's an enormous hypocrisy because

what happens is that the big country's biggest strong countries can afford themselves to say and act differently. small countries cannot afford to want to treat him vocal, but that's why you know, there's more, you know, what we say, what we do. but, and we cannot afford to say and that differently because of the western europeans, do they act and speak differently in a, in a meaning that the day they criticize russia always, but they make the biggest businesses review or they criticize china. they shoot his eyes off for cooperating, we do in china, and then they make enormous deals and businesses with the chinese that's. that's how that's how i meant it. does it hurt or does it benefit? what they're trying to do though is it talks a lot and i tell you why you have to take into consideration reality. and if you look at the reality shows that the china has increased, its sharing global g d p from 4 percent to 18 percent within 20 years. us basically,

even from $31.00 to $3225.00 us traded more we china last year than together all the with all the u. member states, european union members, they traded more. we china, bennett the united states. so we have to take into consideration reality not to speak about the fact that the biggest free trade area in the world has been established in the east again and 70 percent of all investments globally have been financed by eastern capital last year and only 40 percent by investment capital so, so these kind of hypocritical approach, which is unfortunately represented by the european union many times hurts the european interest. and we as an integrated part of the european union, our interests are being hurt. and as you mentioned, the united states, and as far as i know, hunger and didn't get an invitation to the upcoming summit of democracy. so they by the administration is so eager to host. and in fact, hungry is the only e. remember to be sort of left out and one of the 2 natal numbers does it hurts. i

mean, you know, we are a country with a one falls and year long statement one, the falls in the are long christian statewood. our history is full of fights for freedom, liberty, and to or anything. and we don't need any external actor or factor to judge our, the state of our democracy. we are not, you know, students in the 4th grade in the high school to be prepared for you and it's unfair. it's unfair and easy if you're no human being, it should. huh. yeah, but i mean, you know, once again, we don't need a judge. we don't need to judge, we are absolutely aware of our situation. we are proud of our democracy, proud of our fights during our history for freedom. we are proud of the last 1000 years and we don't need anybody to that's kind of certified. and you know, okay, let me rephrase my question because your government has

a pretty warm relationship with the trump administration, which as far as i understand, wasn't renewed to the full extent by the a deal by the team. and i think it was joe biden who on the campaign trail compared to the government to at, to tally terry in the regime. now, both you and i started political times in the university and we know that totally termism is a actually well defined scientifically defined system. with certain characteristics which, whatever you, you think of hungary on their, if they're still losing their definition of to tell a, tara newsom, how well they understand democracy, nor does their political label, not as a rhetorical tool, but as a system of governance. i don't think that they care too much about the reality, not about the reality in our countries. unfortunately, you know, what they say about us has nothing to do with reality. they. they

represent a totally different ideological approach than we do. i even remember because i was there before 2016 during the former democrat administration de criticized us a lot for having a new constitution in hungary for having a constitution on christian basis. i criticizing gods for putting national interest too much forward. so, i mean, we, we think about the role in these terms totally differently. and i don't say it's a problem because i mean, we are different, we can think differently. my only problem in this regard is that there is no mutual respect because respect the decision of the american citizens, the respect the way they want to go forward in the future respect whom they elected as a president. but this kind of respect is not being shown to hungary. there are many lies, faith news, and insults out there about hungary, about the prime minister himself, who personally fought for for freedom. you know,

well minister, let's take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few 2nd. stay tuned for me or you got to do is identify the threats that we have is crazy fantasia and let it be an arms race. is often very dramatic developments only i'm getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful. very difficult time. time to sit down and talk is nothing they can't ride on police report in december 2020 a group of anti fascist, allowed a film crew access for 3 months. so like if people organization, if an idea that it must be a pose,

that channel out the gate while they may kill their faces. but they can say what they believe in. we believe in helping our community. we believe that fascism is one of the major threats to the united states as gotten reuben, this is a chance to see who and t for really are in order for me to extract my 1st amendment right and say that my life matter have to be on to the teacher to that's all there is we can't trust the police, we can't trust the government. we can't trust anyone except ourselves to protect ourselves in a

ah welcome back to one of the boys with hungry minister of foreign affairs and trade. here c, r t o minister, before the break, we were talking about these efforts to make hungry feel excluded from polite society. but i've noticed over the last couple of months that budapest has become a sort of a meeting place for. 9 europe as a whole, and i chose a whole because when my russian and let's say british french one to meet somewhere in europe in this era of corns in inconveniences. wouldn't that happens to be that sweet spot where geography and regulation come together in a convenient manner?

is that a coincidence or are you indeed trying to raise the profile of your capital as a regulated and yet easily accessible crossroads between the east and west? we are a sense for europe and country, so we have always been in between west and east, and we try to utilize this position and saying that our purpose, of course, because you know, and this, this can be tracked in our foreign policy. so that was the strategy that we always wanted east and west to have a fragment, the relationship, a continuous dialogue with each other. why? because our history has thought us that whenever there was conflict between east and west central european countries among them, hungary, we have always lost. and we don't want to be losers anymore. so when we argue in favor of dialogue, prime with the place, and she's mutual respect to whatever is fun because we would be spies of these or that. i mean,

this is stupid. it's not empty. rhetoric continue or indifferent. it's our national interest very, very simply. and very few are not to not to speak about the fact that, you know, we were very successful among the nation. and since we are successful in vaccination, especially at the beginning of the campaign, we could the in the regulations, the restrictive regulations in hungary, we could get rid of the restrictions. basically, that's how we made the best and the country open for visitors travelers. when we made a lot of agreements and via through agreements with other countries, you know, to, including refreshing, that i will have to ask you about. there is an agreement on the actual recognition of vaccination certificates between our 2 countries. as far as i understand they can guarantee you also have a pretty wide choice of vaccine, say you yourself god, that would need the vaccine of all others. and why do you think your european neighbors are not following suit? do you think there is a political rational there?

and so what is actually being gained from, you know, the whole europe recognizing that, you know, we are in this fight together. so, you know, i really don't find the verse to describe how i feel about the fact that there are few, many countries considering the issues of vaccination as if it had a political or the, or ideological nature. you know, it's about the lives of the people and we knew the lives of the p. what is it for them as far as the political, whether of political and ideological debate, what do you think they're gaining from? i don't know why they're losing the lives of people, really, they're losing business. i can't imagine. i can't imagine. and i'm very frustrated about that. to be honest. and i tell you why your appeal, the regulation speaks very clearly about hallway vaccine, can be approved on the $33.00 of the 2 ways. first by the european madison agency,

which is a normal, let's say business of usual way of improving gave action. but the european or some other national european regulation says that in case of the state of emergency, this one, the national regulators, are allowed to approve of actions also on a temporary basis. so before we started to use both scrutiny casino far from china, the national regulator of ours has approved the use of both. which means that the use of scrutiny in hungary is being based on a european regulation. ok. and whenever i talk to western european colleagues on my western european colleagues of mine between for i, they always tell me that they know that the russian family fick performance can be spoken of alcohol in very highly. and well, if they are one of the most effective back seen and, and they are pretty sure that's why they tell me that's what they are. pretty sure that's what is working well. and i said it 1st the best of course it works well.

hungary and experts had to prove that. and regardless of the fact that privately, they all say that when it goes to public, the echo to the difference, doesn't it? if you look at it from another perspective, from the perspective of your national interest doesn't, doesn't give you an advantage the longer the way, the more you can gain, not only from your central position in europe, but also from i know that you have plants of actually producing your own territory, so you're actually gaining from the lack of action on the part of europe and neighborhood. actually begin to last, especially at the beginning because, you know, at the beginning, i mean like 1st part of this year, the deliveries from, from western producers were quite sometimes late. they were cancelled even sometimes, totally. or the volume was less compared to what was contracted, and then those times the fact that the boast uniform and delivered on time to us

additional volumes compared to others. that gave us a huge advantage. we could reopen the country and the national economy around 2 months earlier than the european average. now, with this, by summer, our economy has reached the performance or level of performance of pre pandemic. although the whole, the global economy reached up only by the end of next year, so it's one and a half years of, of advantage. so obviously it brought a lot of a lot of veterans not to speak about the fact that during the 1st half of this year because of the restrictive regulations, $30000000.00 euros was the loss of national economy on a daily basis. so if you could just bring, you know, the warranty, then the better for you, i mean, you know, so i don't understand to be, i don't know. now can i ask you a personal question and it is really a personal question since your preferred whitney of all be. i think it's a actions that i approved for you 6. why did you do that? c and whenever you meet with your, let's say indian or chinese colleagues,

do they ever poke this choice of putting expansive let's say congress shall know. of course they never do. i have a very good contact with mr. bungie. oh, so the for mr. china information, this issue, but why i'm sure so gala ross from your met today was made aware that you made that even though you know not mobile to him but, but mr month was always a very good friend personally also and, and mister rush as well. and so we have boarded all 3 of them because the free of them played a very important role in signing the contract and in delivering, according to the, according to the contract. you know, actually my, my decision, the reason for my decision was crystal clear that when i was a kid, i was vaccinated by rack scenes produced in the rush, defense, obvious, union my life. i find i for that, why should i change quite the change? so that was the very simple reason of my decision. i'm sure the russian officials

would be very happy to hear that. now, contrary to initial expectations that looked like call with 19 is here to say, and perhaps it will exert much bigger on society, even then initially expected. and i think to some extent, that pulled all of us in wars and backward to understand that death is here, we are all more told. and what matters in this life are concrete. the rather than abstract things, family, your kids, your house, your neighborhood, your country, be social fabric that you're integrated into. and you know, the, those are the things that how many people pull through these very difficult experience. and those happened to be the values that your government champions and was criticized for for many years. do you feel vindicated by, by the pandemic? to some extent, look, i for the panoramic would have one positive impact. and that would have been the

understanding by the countries of the road about the very strong interdependence we are living in. and i hoped for a conflict to be left behind. and they hope for countries understanding that we need to cooperate in such issues like saving the lives of the people. but unfortunately, i have to be disappointed because this is, this is not the case. no common joint actions on the scientific side on the vaccine side have, have taken place. although i have to tell you that i had some hope last year when the, when we were lining up in china to buy a masks, ventilators, gloves, protective shoots for the, for the doctors. with all those countries of the west who were criticizing china before. like how and i for that, okay, that might change their position. they might think the same, but at least, you know, relationship will be a more balance or more risk by means. but, but that unfortunately unfortunate didn't happen. now let me switch gears quickly

because we only have a few minutes left. so as long as you've been a minister, you're stressed national security interest as a basis of your policy. and i wonder if your definition of what constitutes hungry, national security interest has changed over the last couple of years. because you mentioned that, you know, there was a lot of preaching about unity and joint action and call the 1900 demonstrated that the, you know, when push comes to shove, everybody puts their own business 1st. yeah. hasn't changed the way you think the world works. actually, when it comes to our national security interest, i think that the pandemic has shown it very clearly. that if you as a country regardless of size location, whatever, if you, as a country are not in disposal of strategic capacities, capabilities, assets, then you become extremely defenceless. which means that you need to have capacities,

which under piece will circumstances seem to be totally selfless, especially from financial perspective. but when it comes to crisis, those are decisive from the perspective of even saving life. we have established our own capacities of, of, of manufacturing, ventilators, gloves, protective suits, madison back, think we are working on the construction is going on regarding the, the vaccine factory board, cargo airplane. so, you know, this kind of fs, some capacities have been created. now, a few months ago, hungry with the true, it's contingent from a dentist on following the abrupt american visceral and i know that despite your firm stance and migration you do, you did take pains to evacuate all the guns more than $500.00. that africans, i think that's land support emission. i wonder though, if this prolong participation in those prolong nato lab missions is still within the definition of your national security interest. as being members of nato,

of course, we always take part in the incoming action. that's another question. i mean, this is, i mean for there it is. what nato is really about. the decision to leave has been made very quickly. i have to tell you. and if you are honest to ourselves, and i think we should, that this 20 years of international emission ended up being a failure, obviously because we made plans, you know, how to contribute financially to maintaining the funding. national security depos forces to 2024. so even we hung areas have made pledges from our national budget $5000.00 for ear up to 2014. and then a couple days after or even couple days before we left, i was going to found the whole thing has collapsed, right? that's, that's what happens. so i'm fortunate double the failure we have but we are still committed to participating and there is missions going forward. there's no member mission enough going to fund anymore, but that's what i thought. and i had

a question for you on my part because you know their attention on the russian western or you border. okay. and there are various acts of force projection going on between russia and western europe. all right, russia and nita and when, if other than when, but if those tensions wrapped in a fully blown conflict, do you think hungry will still be able to sit on the fence as you are very successfully doing right now? or will be circumstances force you to take side or to make a decision whether to fight against the russians or not. what number was we are members of nato and to bring some commitments and obligations which had never be tried all your criticism. of course, of course, 2nd, but 2nd and you cannot isolate and all the russian, how's, when they did what you say that you cannot isolate, to think of affect them, that we will do our best. always to avoid, to prevent any such a conflict between nato and the russia. because once again,

we are living here in central europe. we know how it feels when there is a severe conflict between the russia, soviet union and the west. small country like hungary, a small but power passionate and free country has the capacity of influencing. i do think i do think that no one and it's my thinking ok, i do think that there is no one at least having a complete mind even in, in the western part of europe who would want such a conflict to be crated. so i think that everybody in the west novice would this aaron will do his or her best to avoid such a conflict. i'm pretty sure about that. well, hopefully you're right. i also hope. well, anyway, it's been the great pleasure talking to you. thank you very much. for your time, thank you everyone. and thank you for watching hope to see you again next week on

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