for countries bombed by rich ones and the de facto massacre in the channel, when refugees like iraq, he mariam nori mom and i mean drowned seeking to be reunited with loved ones in britain. and as the un general assembly discusses palestine at the start of the month of christmas, we ask the un repertoire and human rights in the palestinian territories about renewed u. k complicity and arguable israeli war crimes. and the effect of illegal settlements on the birthplace of jesus, bethlehem, all of them all coming up in today's going underground. first his critics accuse europe of washing it's hands of a migrant crisis. arguably of its own making. dozens of been killed up to trying to cross the channel to reach the u. k. a so called mainstream media reports record daily numbers entering the u. k. while i'm meeting you k was, many of them are fleeing from joining me now for material and calendars. professor francois crypto, the former un special rapids are on the human rights of migrants, so called migrants is, as we say, often going, underground deference. our thanks for that coming on before we get to the 27 killed in the channel. do you expect rich countries to be using all mc cron further to

stop asylum cases? i mean, there's news for polish. her agents repelling refugees trying across the board of belarus. again, that seems to disappear from mainstream media and they going to use the pandemic? yes, yes, absolutely. they've been using the fantastic for closing borders. you heard w a show the world health organization calling for not closing borders a few days ago. and for closing borders against viruses is ludicrous as a concept, as australia demonstrated and australia is very well protected by oceans. and yes, it didn't prevent them from, from getting viruses or, you know, reduce the number of people who might be infected. yes, it immediately in the beginning of the pandemic a year and a half ago, it allows health care assistance to prepare for what was coming. but at this point,

if our health care systems are not able to manage, you know, the pandemic. and if we don't vaccinate enough, and if we don't get protection, you know, the gear and everything. well, we're, we're behind, we're behind we, we need to do what is necessary and it's not closing borders. closing borders doesn't stop viruses. well, the british government begs to differ actually just before again, i get to the terrible events in the, in the channel in the bus to a few days. do you as a form of which were able to see the, the, an attitude migration echoes of it in the so called war on drugs that we man heroin . and we've had the cocaine and expect the arrow it and go game to never come to the european union. i mean, absolutely. you can, you can start with the prohibition, the, or i'm in the twenties and thirties in north america. and when you have a need on one side and a need on the other side, and you put a barrier in between, you create an underground market that happened for alcohol happens for drugs. and

it happens for migration because all you know, immigration welcoming states have millions of employers who want to employ these migrants, often exploiting them. and these are, i'm acknowledge, labor nice. we, here are politicians say that we don't want, you know, low wage migraines because they're going to reduce the, the average wage in our country, or they're going to bring poverty, et cetera. but in fact, employers are ready to weigh them in all the economic sectors that are not deluca reliable agriculture, construction, fisheries extraction care, et cetera, hospitality. so these people are em and they know that no one dies of hunger really in canada, in the u. k. in europe, so they will have a job and if they have a job, it's because there's a job market for them. not acknowledging that,

and preventing them from coming actually creates a market for all those smugglers were explaining them. there was no smuggling in europe during the shingle area between let's say, italy and france for almost 20 years until to 3 years ago. france this that to stop people have been to media. and suddenly the hood pass in the us were rediscovered by smugness, so, smuggling migrant smuggling is a policy induce activity and criminal activity. so that seems to suggest british politicians, a recruitment charges for human traffic is that they're always criticizing. let's get, let's get to the channel. we were just talking about 24 year old mariam nori trying to reunite their fiance, hearing air in britain in iraqi women. of course, britain bombed iraq. her, the label body is just to pointed to people in 2 positions of the shadow cabinet who supported that war. 27 dead was it?

manslaughter stays are certainly responsive. states like european states immigration welcoming states. and that includes militia in south africa and brazil . it's not a global north issue, it's all well immigration, welcoming states are responsible for those deaths in deserts and mountain passes. in at sea, we've seen what's happening in the mediterranean or the past 10 years, and it's happening over the road in johns. it's happening everywhere. they're responsible because they know that these people will come and they know that their policies are preventing them to come and are offering the smugglers an opportunity to make money without taking risks. and they know how to reduce that. but in the fifties and sixties and early seventy's, no one died in the mediterranean to take an example, because people could get visa very quickly and could buy ferry tickets. there's no need. and yet millions of people crossed the mediterranean millions of people from

central america into the us, and millions of people from the caribbean and the the sub continent. to bridget, no one died. there was no need for that because you could, you could be mobile and states know that reinstating mobility taking over the mobility market from the smugglers by providing these us and this has to be done gradually. you don't want to, you know, flood the country, but you down to do that gradually and have an objective of making mobility faster, cheaper, safer for everyone. or is it because european union countries now know they were involved in was that they don't want to approach this object? the way you just described that? i mean, i've some of the people that die the kurdish men and women from syria to males from yemen to males from a rock. do you think come countries like britain should have to institute those kinds of policies you just mentioned before they bomb syria before they bomb iraq

before they sell arms to saudi arabia to bomb yemen? yeah, the question of responsibility for past action is so that i, i don't touch what i'm interested in. are the migrants themselves. if we look at what happens in germany, in 2015 mangin, america decided to keep the boarders open. she welcomed almost a 1000000 people. she got the flag he, she, there was a political reaction over the next few years. what do you hear today? these people are integrated? their children, a speaking german like natives? where's the problem? and, and there was an uptick in the, the german g d b over the next 2 years, a one percent one percent of their german g. b is a lot of millions of dollars of euro's. and so where is the problem when you need is to recognize that mobility is actually a development factor, even for immigration, low low of countries, and organize it, manage it,

take control of it by opening progressively more and more visas for people looking for work. but for that, you need to know that you have labor needs in those categories. and for that, you need to have politicians who have the political will to change something and to especially do strategic planning of that mobility over the next 20102030 years like we do for all other economic sectors, infrastructure, energy, food security, we plan long term mobility never, it's always reactive. why? because for love politician having a permanent crisis is actually beneficial. well, are going and angular merkel. johnson germany also made of turkey to take a lot of refugees as well. at wagons. we forget that i had that you said as political expediency, hebron johnson's a bonus equity, pretty battelle said, we are not working just to end these crossings because we don't care. and we're

heartless, the united kingdom as a clear and generous, humane approach to asylum seekers and refugees. or what would you make of that? and of course, that's in the context of witnesses saying they saw jet skis practicing on the south goad coast deterring. denise in the channel and a report to denied by the johnson government of putting up a wave machines are to stop doing is getting to getting to britain and plans to just send them to disuse, platt oil platforms in the north sea or, or send them to ascension islanders fleeing at was britain has been involved in yes, britain is, is doing things that greece has been doing with your approval of the you on it's on its eastern coast with turkey and that many other countries are doing what, what has been done in the past few years,

at the american mexican border is not much better either. so all these things are risks are killing people or, or hurting them, at least when, if governments were serious about helping these people, there are techniques that exist that have been proven workable. for example, communities, sponsoring of refugees. if you ask groups of bris, like groups of canadians to sponsor a refugee family, you will have an outpouring of volunteers in canada. they could not imagine it. they could not manage the outpouring of volunteers. the advantage of something like that is that it changes the perception of canadians. it changed the perception of canadians towards refugees because that those were canadians welcoming refugees being responsible for their integration. and therefore having, having some beef in the discussion they would, they had, they had political interest in the refugee sponsorship working to which of course,

after the 20 crisis, people will say one in 4 children in this country are in poverty. the food banks lines are right beside the studio. i just want to quickly get though, to the fact that once those seeking asylum arrive in this country, the numbers who have been dying in the bus was mainly privatized facilities. has. it's nearly a 100 dead since 2016. we've covered the manly cling of pregnant women, and now a whistleblower has come forward talking about to to actually to maybe see about g for s or a run site of abuse of those seeking asylum. what about what happens to migrant go migrants when they arrive in european union countries in their treatment? well, what i've seen when i was such a reporter, i visited probably 80 to 90 detention center throughout europe and, and, and elsewhere. and, and, you know,

there's no invest in those facilities unless there are purpose builds and then they become like maximum security detention centers. and there is the tension of children almost everywhere i've seen when the committee, the un committee on the rights of children, the rest of the child says that detention of children for migration purposes can never ever be in their best interest. i've seen that everywhere. so the u. k is doing badly. okay, but that's, that's true of many other countries are politicians do not care about migrants because migrants do not vote what they are doing is managing their electorate and managing their electorate through immigration policies means that these immigration policies are made by non migrants for non migrants the electorate, and they're not aimed at migrate. so politicians actually do not care about what migrants do in the country. and it seems that we have mobilized the bowl electorate

who, which is empty immigration, which is very happy that we detain and support all the time, including children, including pregnant women. and that's what our politicians are doing. and we can't blame them. we have the best system we've ever invented the government ourselves electoral democracy and they respond to the electoral pressure. and the electoral pressure is not coming from people who are pro immigration from missouri. thank you . my pleasure. after the break, as the un general assembly discusses palestine, is the time for talking in resolutions over we ask the un repertoire and human rights in the palestinian territories. if solidarity is no longer enough in the face of ever increasing settlements and surveillance, all of them all coming up in part to have going on. you were to that was that your eyes and your post yet that it would stop you from having real friends and finding a girlfriend. but what they fail to mention is that you can make thousands of

dollars every weekend by simply playing video games. a couple of them because i always wanted the solution that was showing a little under coffee as i was originally looking for connecticut multiple to do stuff is not gonna cause to make video games a high paying job. you have to be gifted and quick witted, hang on to open up with the little bit misleading him bottom and ms. thompson, with webpage bentley up amongst the booth, but even started yet gala. boy, when you mouse told me i was do it out or you mean that was it neil's feel? are you guy of the order but the out that vehicle it will still the se odd to do i also use a when i was shown seemed wrong when i just don't a whole new world. yes. to shape out these days because of the advocate,

an engagement, it was betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look so common ground. with welcome back morris johnson's u. k. government chose the international day of solidarity with the palestinian people to announce it's new packed with israel to day. as we approach christmas. it's narrative based in palestine. the un general assembly debates the ongoing conflict, while the u. k. u. s. a and e. you pull weapons into his really hands, amidst continuing violence in the legal settlements. joining me now from ontario in canada is professor micheal link,

the u. n. special rupture for the human rights situation in the palestinian territories. thank you so much sweats, robideau for coming on as a sad britain is announced a huge pact that spanning cyber security loan trade with a israel just to update us on know whether, despite britain a sang, they do have some concerns about central violence, whether the situation of virgin chris was getting much better actually in the territories. this occupation is getting deeper and it has heard for years and there's really been no change with the arrival than he was really government, which came into our in gym. so these continuing military agreements with israel, i'm only one of giving israel much more confidence that the world was i could pay attention or any meaningful attention to the fact that it is a, it's occupation is now becoming indistinguishable from, from annexation. remember that there are already almost $300.00 settlements in the occupied territories. truce them. and on the west bank,

other almost 700000 of settlers, which is the girls of more than 200000 sectors from 20 years ago. and the current israeli government has proclaimed that it doesn't even believe in a, in a 2 state solution. so when it winds up signing these important military pacts with, with the united states, with the, with great britain and, and with europe's it only needs is going to be continuing to be extensively armed. and most of those arms are really being looked at in terms of maintaining a rebellious population of 5000000 people who don't want to remain under occupation . what so an agreement like that is as condemnation i'm. i think the call now should be an end to middle your agreement to military sales, to israel until it fully and finally ends the occupation. you can't go around separating decisions with respect to the israeli government and with respect to what's 54 year old occupation. the creation of the settlements,

the maintenance of the, of the occupation and the development of defacto annexation is the largest single project in israel, 73 year old history. so as long as you're continuing to trade with, as you're particular with respect to military arms, you're only enabling israel to deepen that deep occupation, which the world itself, including western countries, has said, you know, is it should be and it should be entered as soon as possible, yet they've taken no meaningful steps to be able to do that and, and selling arms to israel, only exhilarates the opposite. bo, invite bars, johnson government official. do talk about how proud they are in the agreement. in contrast to what that you are saying. we had obey him, obeyed even the by san center, a humanitarian and geo, on the show recently amidst the designation of 6 and g as in palestine as terrorists. this comes actually as a,

as the british government has decided to ban the democratically elected government, they were democratically elected governor of gaza. hum us, what's going on as regards the batting of human rights organizations of political parties by not only a israel, which because it is those groups are as a but by european union entities let that you've asked 2 questions. they're let me take them side by side. first of all, with respect to the 6 palestinian organizations. these are among the leading human rights and humanitarian organizations in palestinian society. they, many of them have concentrated status with united nations. some of them have one international human rights awards for their, for their advocacy. the israel has been, has been attempting for some time to persuade york in countries which are the primary funders of the, of the work of these organizations that they are in the terrorist organizations that they're tied to in an organization in the occupied territories. the p, f. l p,

the popular fulfill liberation of palestine, which is designated as a panelist as a terrorist organization. certainly when israel presented its evidence in the spring to european countries, are the result of the consequence was the european countries saying there's, there's no evidence here. there's nothing persuasive that israel has, has given us that makes us think we should be re a stopping or a reconsidering the funding that we give to these organizations. israel is now up the anti by, by proclaiming these organizations in late, october and early november to be terrorist organizations, and therefore unlawful. and they presented their dorsey again to the europeans and through the americans. and what we know from these dossiers, it's been leak publicly, is again that there is nothing persuasive as it is in the middle of november. the attrition for foreign affairs with the european union and said we, i've been presented with nothing that persuades me that we ought to change our

attitude towards these organizations or post or convince me that these organizations do have back of ties to a terrorist organization. so to get you right to the israeli government as well in your position as raptor. i have, i have the number, any reply. no, listen, i write, i ordinarily write with a number other special rapid tours on to these ready governments. sometimes they reply not to me, but to the others, but what we sent to these really government has not been answered. and certainly our public statements have not been challenged by, by israel either with respect to this or, you know, it's one can only surmise that israel is, is worried. among other things that some of these organizations are among the most effective, gathers of evidence and arguments. going to the international criminal court in the hague. and that it is 11 strong motivation, more motivating reason for israel to one of see if they can. wanted to further

shrink the space available for democratic criticism of israel's human rights violations in the occupied palestinian territory. well, as israel says that they're all terrorists, you know, it doesn't, doesn't matter if you the agriculture committees, the women's policy, the women's committee. so back to this british government decision, pretty patel the secretary here, controversially saying, today i've taken action to prescribe hamas in its entirety. the government is committed detecting extremism and terrorism wherever, because hm us has significant terrorist capability getting access to extensive sophisticated weaponry. what will it mean for britain that it is banned out? one of the major political groups in palestine. i said this that took place last week that the house was prescribed under the terrorism act of united kingdom. i gather means that it's forbidden, under british long to be a member of hamas to express support from us to arrange even

a private meeting with a mass in all of which could grow a prison sentence for up to 1414 years. let's be clear, certainly in my view has committed terrorist actions. it is fired rockets and rockets indiscriminately into into civilian areas and israel and is presently being investigated for work crimes by the international criminal court. but having said that, one has to look at the landscape of israeli and palestinian politics and want us to acknowledge that the mass is a major political force in palestinian society. and it's the de facto ruler with respect to guys a. i think there are several things wrong with the, with a british decision. first of all, it ignores this significant role that hamas plays in palestinian politics. we're not going to be able to find a piece or route to and ending the occupation and realizing policy and self

determination without having hm us at the, at the table, no matter how old is some of this acts may have been. second of all, i think it wins, of ignoring israel's very troublesome human rights record with respect to its conduct to the of the occupation of human rights violations. and it, too, is also being investigated for war crimes by the international, by the prosecutor, the international criminal court. the 3rd, you know, the most important thing is, i think it's just common sense. you make peace with your enemies. you wouldn't have had in britain a workable durable, good friday agreement with whatever flaws were for the past 23 years without bringing the i r a to the political table and involving it in the political process . i don't think there's anything qualitatively different with respect involving a mass at the political table with respect was rarely in palestinian negotiations for a final and just a solution to the situation there. as special roger, i presume you are able to talk to these have asked politicians that additions here

are not, i presume, what ever they said to you. well, clearly given that britain is arming israel to de mom, syria, in the past few days, let alone its actions in the occupied territories. britain becomes a legitimate target. well, no mean nobody should be a legitimate target. now what did they say to you and what is, what are you in touch with? hm. us, are you allowed to be in touch with us and still land of in a plane in britain? i've not been in touch with the mass. you know, i'm my, my context right now are, are with the palestinian authority and with austin in civil society. so be like i view her mom from that from the outside. i don't have any world contacts with them . but i know enough with respect to the, the nature and occurrence of palestinian politics to know what a significant force they were. you're right with respect to last democratic elections that were held in 2006 in palestine. they won what international service

said was a free and fair election and were ready to pick a stores to take rains with respect to governing the palestinian institutions when a world wide boycott was imposed on them and that and that process one of collapsing with the world now recognizing the palestinian 40 in the west bank but not recognizing a mass in the gaza strip. but as i said, you can, if you have division among palestinian society, put in it's political figures, you're not going to knit that back together to be able to form an effect of political force to negotiate with israel. unless you recognize a mass in the same way that britain recognize the i r a and brought them into the political process. now i know the n a so group which created the pegasus software associated and linked with the assassination of watching to both journals, demarcus shoji and in turkey denies any wrong doing. apple is suing them there in

israeli manufacturer. what is the role of surveillance and washington post talking now about a decrease facial recognition using the occupied territories of surveillance now used against palestinians as we approach christmas. and people will know them to the story of the roman empire occupation of the palestinian surgeries. what, what is, what disturbs you about the surveillance? well, of course, you know that i think in any society where there is surveillance, it's either it's either encouraging authoritarian government or it's encouraging those liberal tendencies within a democratic government. and these, these surveillance techniques should have the most restricted process possible put upon them to ensure they're not misused, you know, for israel and the palestinians. the palestinians of long said were in a laboratory for all of these israeli army manufacturers and cybersecurity firms and facial recognition companies. when they go out and sell their arms or their

technology to the world to police forces to security agencies. we have been the guinea pigs with respect to the development of these. so facial security recognition technology has been used to trying to be able to maintain it like an enhanced surveillance or the, or the occupy population in order to ensure that israel has, i suppose, early warning signals with respect to possibilities of, of rebellion or reaction to the harshness of the, of the occupation. so when these are sold worldwide, you know, most, most police agencies, or for security agencies aren't recognizing the palestinian fingerprints, which are all over this facial security recognition. and how it is been developed in order to be able to keep a population of 5000000 states people are under subjugation. especially

roger, thank you. my pleasure. that's over the show will be back on saturday. 52 years to the day of the de facto u. s. state murder. marx is lenin as black pam for fred hampton. until then, keep in touch with social media and let us know if you think international law is fit for purpose. when it comes to palestine, ah, hazards financial survival guy would go to work, go buy, you reduce the price. now, well, reduce the lower that's under cutting, but what's good for food market that back to the global economy? there is no pinnacle of evolution. everything's quite a bacteria, is the product to 4000000000 years of evolution in a specific environment. so away. so in our sense where we are deluxe you survivors are then develop a long, long process you. so as in silver springs at yellowstone,

we will not do very well and we'll do much better in that sense. japan and brazil are among the latest to report on the current cases, making a total of 20 countries so far it by the rapidly spreading case which strike is another dia just gotten, is that they are somewhat effective. yes, they, they do irritate the eyes in the throat, but a little bit. also this i, we report from the scene of protests in sudan where tens of thousands have marched against military rule following last month's cave and high school shoot, you meet, you can leave 3 students dead. and 8 people injured at 15 year old is under arrest . or sex and come twitter gets a new boss who believes the online giant shouldn't be too preoccupied by freedom of speech.