the ability of westminster parliamentarians to influence events when the government bose the majority of new 80 in the house of commons. one of the most active avenue appears in the house of lords, is labour member byron sticker. he is one of the moving spirits in the cross party attempts to hold the government to its commitments, to protect pensioner income. alex asked them about the issue, what are the prospects for and whether they are making any progress. and then return to the s and peace. indefatigable angus. brendan mcneal, owner, 15 years after he held tony blair's speech to the parliament, to fire on the cash for honor scandal, he turns to the free with the new built on board us. johnson's enablement. but will it make any difference this time? right. these key introduce later in the program. beg 1st to retreats, emails i messed up on last week, st. andrew's dish, or featuring a special interview with a stored in or in dudley edward. first from george brandon. he says a tonic to hear alex always positive and interesting. he frazer says another 1st

class. sure, thanks. edit it says, as my medical history like her own, dudley edwards, richie ferguson messages we want more than scottish nationalism to survive. we want our country back to prosper. micro your says scotland seems to be doing a lot of talking. the walking needs to come soon, otherwise border will arrive before that. i'm finally to liam griffin says, and i don't mean to be a smart alec. i'm happy for the 30th of your family to become scotlands national day, but the 13th of november was originally a holiday of obligation in the church calendar to celebrate the feast of state. i do not like many in the house of lords, the newly ennobled by been sick of has brought a wealth of experience as professor of accounting university. he has immediately put this to good use and the cross party attempt to hold the government its previous commitments to pensioners much will it make a difference? he's in discussion with alex lot 2nd. welcome to the alex arman. show pleasure to

meet you and to be here. but you're a relatively new member of the upper house, the house of lords. you come into the, the chamber with substantial outside experiences, a professor of finance and accountancy. how have you found the r came process of the house a lot? well, just to amplify a little bit. i was professor of accounting and finance at 3 major universities. generally, i was researching what i call the dark side of capitalism and now are confronted fully in parliament. you can see there is in build lobby of big corporations and the rich people and frequently legislation is modified to appease those interests. and those people who are really negatively affected by the darker practices, whether it is bribery, corruption, money laundering taxes,

dodging off to the police are not really heard of. this is what i really want to represent in parliament. you advisor to jamie corbett. us live a party leader this out, not a bit of a contradiction suddenly who devised that? jeremy carbon seeing, let's cut out the tax dodge, is the lobbying of these big corporations coming in to the non elected chamber of the house a lot on the appointed undemocratic jim? i think you're absolutely right. and one has to face up to these are a contradictions i came in the house and i did say to john macdonell, when i won that this issue was 1st discussed through the labor party finance treasure, and he was the shadow chancellor. i said, look, i would, i would go to the house a lot on the condition that i can vote it out of existence and have it replaced by an elected chamber. but another issue is, they're all kind of competing discourse as an issues. and they need to be amplified in all kind of institutional spaces. if i, for example,

i'm not raising questions about tax avoidance, bribery, corruption, money laundering. chances are many of those issues won't get a good airing. so i am really here to represent what tends to be ignored and marginalized because that is, that is a key in a sense, the good life that you have to tackle those issues had on. well, i've been, i was in the house of commons for 25 years wanting to vote it out of existence as far as scotland was concerned. so i'm not one to talk, you know, near short time in the lord's just stored a year. if a mouse is a, a champion of pensioners and this cross party alliance, which have been making some ground there, in terms of passing a dissenting voices from the lords, having them flung back in your face by the house of commons. but what does this cross party lines trying to do in the upper chip? i think people may have heard different perspectives on this, but essentially what we're concerned about is justice for our retirees. the

eucharist age pension is the lowest as a fraction of average or in the industrialized world, it is about 24 percent of the average earnings. the e u average is about 60 percent, and some countries have it even higher, and nobody can live on around 8000 pounds a year of the state pension. and there are about 2100000 pensioners who get less than 100 had a week. and the majority of those are women. women are particularly disadvantaged because there is no gender pay equality. and that then works his way through that they don't pay if he like, full national insurance contributions, they can get full occupational pay. so it is really people being condemned to a life of poverty, misery, and early death. and that is what we are really concerned about that that is wrong and that needs to be addressed. but it is not just an issue for the current

retirees. it is an issue for future retirees as well. because current retirees are suffering from the past. misdemeanors of governments, so we want to make sure that the future retirees don't suffer from the same. so therefore you need a much, much higher state pension. now what is this triple law? a professor of countless who can you tell our views was as triple lot that we're so concerned about. it was really introduced in 201111. and the idea was that the state pension should rise in line with the highest of the 3 measurements that is either 2.5 percent or the rate of inflation or average earnings. and the government has decided this year that it really wants to suspend it. they say for one year, but that itself is catastrophic because that one years suspension means pensioners are deprived of about 5400000000 pounds of pension payments in one year. and the

recent treasury forecast covers the next 5 years. and it shows that over 5 year period, pensioners would lose spending power off $30500000000.00 pound. can you imagine what the consequences of that are? and pensioners tend to generally spend money in the local economy. so a lot of local economies would actually be decimated as a result of the chance that shattered got by so it would been for the this global pandemic, we're still going through. it's a public expenditure increase massively at to try and protect the economy, including pensioners and actually just asking for one year of a lower rise. it is not asking too much from the chance to list it. well, that is what the government says until you borrow down into his claims. firstly, there is a 37000000000 pound surplus sitting in the national insurance fund account. and out of that, if he paid $5400000000.00, that's not gonna make a big event. secondly,

at the moment we have a huge anomalies. for example, in the u. k, there is no national insurance on unearned income. just take one example. what is called capital gains, that is what people make who own 2nd homes are dabble in the securities market, arch markets, commodities market. if you charged care and national insurance at the current rate on capital gains alone, that would raise a about $8000000000.00 pounds. and capital gains are also taxed at a much, much lower rate than earned income. if you did that, that would raise another 17000000000 pounds. so in other words, the government can easily fund the rise for in the state pensions by simply dealing with tax anomalies or dealing well or eliminating the perks enjoyed by very few people. so capital gains, perks is just enjoyed by 263000 people in the country. whereas the government is

disadvantaging about 12 and half 1000000 pensioners. now you put together along the fathers se couldn't ex tori ministers, a or lesson to pass an amendment in the house a lot. but then it was flung back in your face by that the house of commons. the sat not illustrate that at the end of the day that the house of lords can huff and puff, but you're not gonna blow the host. i think this certainly some truth in that, by the fact that her, the house of commons is not willing to listen, also shows what is wrong with our political system. a political party with around 40 percent of the votes and have a huge majority. and the house of commons, and then ignore all reasoned arguments. so maybe what we need is a form of proportional voting so that her broader voices are heard and represented. and we also need lots of young people in parliament because it is their future. we're talking about not just about the retiree's interest. if you

look at the last few weeks or bullish. johnson's government in desperate trouble on what's generally generically called sleazy desperate trouble law on the, the shift there at the national health service in terms of social care or bankrupt, bought volt and tory benches. and yet no real revolt on pensions. rather curious that an issue like pensions, which of effects tens of millions of people, no sign of a revolt, whereas issues like sleeves and social care, important huge issues, but not perhaps affecting just as many people or why is this discrepancy between what is regarded as a political pressure a and why a pensions don't seem to be high and the government's agenda. the real issue is about poverty. now when the government says we can't afford it, what they are implying is we can afford poverty, misery, squalor, early death. and really that is the issue, the issues about equitable distribution, i mean come and wealth. it has nothing to do with the young versus old. and the

media itself has been highly complicit in spreading that myth. and that is what we need really need to debunk and hopefully we're deep on that in the parliamentary debates. but it is interesting when these things were the bond, the responsible they ministers, responsible for pensions had absolutely no answer. they were unable to answer back and quote, any statistic about anything. and finally, with hand for tragic reasons, sir. recently, the death of sir david amos, the importance of constraints, is sutton's even at danger to empties how to members of the house, laws go about keeping in touch with the electorate. i'm in it. you don't hold sub julie's presumably lately came peace of mind that you do it online. the people say you went listener a have just speech, lord, speaker, you keep going on, pensions, you're speaking for me, or do you take part in demonstrations with pensions? how to kruber's house laws keep in touch with the people and issues that the trying

to inflate. while recently, after the, or even during the debate about the state pension i received, i would say probably over a $100000.00 messages from our pensioners. somebody clearly felt that there was an issue which needed to be aired and neglected. i have many, many online meetings. and last week, i participated the indeed lead a demonstration by the national pensioners convention against death of senior citizens due to a cold. many people discount afford to choose between a heating and eating or they have to make the hard choices. and the result is early death. so certainly i have attended many online meetings, also meetings in person. i also been involved with some of these activities before i came to the house, for example, amico, founder of texas justice network. and where we particularly brought the public's attention all over the world to organize what i would call corruption and sleeves,

which is tax abuse. and we organize all kinds of activities again is giant corporations and indeed government departments as well. so i am quite at home with these kind of things and i really would encourage people to come out to the streets, make their voices heard because unless their voices are heard, very little will change. lot suca more strength, your elbows are competing peer and thank you so much for joining me. and they'll examine show i q alex, join us after the break, where alex turns the political storm, which has engulfed the johnson government in recent weeks joint a thing. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be in arms, race his on often very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist.

i don't see how that strategy will be successfully, very critical of time. time to sit down and talk with welcome back. the boys johnson govern has become accident prone issues is diverse, is northern real. the form of social care and government sleeve, the consistent message which emerges is it the prime minister has lost his grip. johnson came a copper last month when he tried to overturn the standards committee lobbying decision on former cabinet member on partisan. he won the vote, but the soon and headlong puts critique. i'm dig nighted the whole issue of empties . i'd say interest however, is the bigger issue, the clean selling of peaches and other owners for political pro. but as

a young m p, there isn't these angles many of fun. there be a government into chaos in 2006. can you repeat the check with the johnson government? alex speaks to him night. i just randomly or welcome back to the alex salmon show. thank you. good to be back. let's take a look at the, the question your questioning of the prime minister a couple of weeks ago. and the liaison committee, which is a huge chance for committee chairs like yourself to, to ask the prime minister succession of questions. lowest, take a look of, i had to say, didn't yourselves look years down should and so the d b should stop sending big value dollars to those a lot. a commonly known us cash for owners and seen as a very cut up to practice international. how are you into any race that will be on your own today? yes, i'm looking for a not well, it was actually my colleague. yes, jonathan edwards, i happen to be sitting beside him by pass. right. i'm not done. i think young with should the but his end to the answer to that is that these are

a bond knowledge. by the way, the new contribute is huge. brought to probably like 3000000 doesn't end until you do the work to, to get rid of the system. by which the trains you, you barons, fund, other parties, we have to, we have to go ahead, will you have with us or you haven't completely taxpayer funded system and politics . we submitted it. so if we need to continue with this a system by which a public spirited people or give donations. now what interested me about that was almost an implicit admission from the prime minister. that the reason for people going to the lords was the what donald to the party believe is camico. when you asked the question, he started talking about a union bobbins giving money to the labor party is such a thing. legal is not legal and factors and explicit acts. the 1925 honors

prevention of abuses act. that is meant to say that if you buy or if you sell an owner, you'll get 2 years in prison. i have thought that it is not taken very seriously, but the law of you k is not taken very seriously at all. i think it was really interesting, but the way the feminist that answered was, he went straight to the fact that this was something he had to do there for funding because the liver party, he was all the know will get their money from the trade union. so therefore, the only way the conservatives similarly could get money was for $3000000.00 to end up on the house of lords. 1925 act open and shut case me. you could foreman this of earth and use that term back as a young m p and 20052006. you hurried tony blair, then prime minister on exactly the same issue that may yourself popular with tony blair. but that seemed to make much difference to the the voters today. well, i think by the time the election came in 2010, i think i was maybe pleaded in might have

a left label shorter funds for the 2007 scottish election of the didn't quite of the coffers full, which i me have a played an are all in the election of a, a certain individuals 1st minister of the term, claiming the credit for the roughly yes will for that guy solomon with ronko, he likes yeah, yeah. well, you can have done it with me. the serious point for anger smith was that there despite the fact the met, interviewed boy and has onto us and caused him huge inconvenience. and i remember sitting in the commons that you want his favorite pass and let's put it that way. mean if looks could kill, you'd have been sexually under it, but it's different at the end of the day lead to everything. so if you couldn't succeed in toppling 20 bliss, why do you think it's worth having bought us johnson? well, look at the correlation. there was 1000000 pounds place and there's a large the correlation. there was 3000000 to business laws and i'm the place and the time. so it's inflation on the conservative. but, you know,

at the point it was only decided on the balance of probabilities that wouldn't be successful prosecution. so that didn't continue. i did think that getting some of those characters at the time and the witness book sort of in a very interesting situation. indeed because there were some probably going to post the bargain. but the other bargain that's going on at the moment is that the opposition leaders say so pierce dom or so they'd be, be, don't want to talk with it. and i've written to all 3 of the party leaders who send people to those of lords to say they will not send donors at those of lords. the response has been silence. you know, they could come out, know, david could come out here, stamina could come out and say, we will not send the donors. there's a lot of pressure on the prime minister, not to do the same, but they're not doing that. this is in the context of load oak shots and in 2014, when he stepped down, as i think it was liberal party treasure, to the practice of cash for donors to somebody feel to put an end to scotland yard them at the bottom. please don't have the investigative capability of capacity to

seem to go very far with this. something very strange. explain to us about this a bill that you have presented into your abolishing the sale of photos. again, despite the fact it's already the law of the land purpose this, that bill was the technique and introducing that parliamentary bo highlight. it gives it a focus and it's a very simple build and basically says, anybody who needs more than $50000.00 pounds to any political party cannot be appointed or no bold earn those of lords repeated to 5 years. because they're perfectly free to give 5000000 or 10000000 or 25000000. just don't expect to find yourself names of lords for 5 years. and i think the, the, the linkage between no cache and honors, which is very clear in the united kingdom. it would be severely co tilden because who knows what the political weather will be in 5 years time monitor risk investment to make for, for for summer, vanity or vanity possession that a let people sometimes feel the need. well yes,

i can see that the media's fascination were for issues like cash for orders. but as a, as an important an issue for, for ordinary focus, let's say pensions and the ending of the triple lot, the money that's been taken out the, the pockets in the past is a pension of what you did about that sort of thing. well, i think a fish rots on the head. it's often said, and i think that the problems with this government are a multifaceted and this is one facet of the pentagon or another facet of it. or i think, you know, some of the things ease in action on pensions. i said positive and action and pensions. it has made the mistake, of course, that gordon brown made when he was chancellor. he almost 20 years ago when he opt pencils by somebody for a daisy seventy's expense or but still we're living in the u. k with the was pensions in europe. are all independent countries and about us take for instance from scotland. iceland, ireland, norway, an arc of prosperity if you will, surrounding scotland have higher pensions. this cuts through definitely,

but it cuts through in various different ways and each facet. it gets it on time to be highlighted. the liaison committee. this is like a almost unprecedented opportunity for a bike bench and i'll be a senior lamp back banjo. but sheila, for committee and if you get the prime minister in front of you all that up all the time, unlike primers. those questions when they obviously you can swap you away, you've gone and you're very much and you're cross. yes. yeah, we get 6 minutes and just a bit and then ended up to 6 minutes by the, by the gym and occasionally come in when the prime minister is waffling when you try and come to that. yeah. and, and there's not motivated by the speaker either you're almost you don't person when you have your 6 minutes. busy on you can ended up the prime minister, not payments discretions, or you ask your question, you sit down and he's done. so as long as he wants this time, you're both sitting. if you want to interrupt you ended up wanted to let them hang himself, you know, let him himself describe as

a square go and glasgow palms. politically, of course it's pretty much the squid as go. you're going to get with a prime minister and the to beat nina and the entire for them of westminster. yes. last few weeks, the prime ministers come under a lot of pressure on the genetic issue. asleep on the social cale. and. and then with how much trouble is bought us johnson know, in your estimation, bush johnson's back benches have crossed a sort of rubicon become the sort of duty, the prime minister as a semi deity before. no, they're very much the defeat. and indeed, the legs of claim that the prime minister has good, and they've not only felt to do themselves, can criticize, but they've heard others and colleagues criticize. and that moment as sort of, it's been of any book for them if they felt stronger as a result, and the not as cold as they were. that's what they were going to see more of that. because once that genie is literally in the bottle, that's very hard to put that sort of a reverence or,

and fear back in to the hearts of those m. p 's that previously had that if it went, that ministration runs into trouble, as the johnson administration has done, the people like yourself and the back benches. let's call it of the common. so be a committee chair of course, and people in the house a lot like a lot of 2nd council says pensions initiative is that when you come into your own is that when you, you sent blood, you think to yourself, hey, i've got a chance to make an impression here, well, it's sell the time when other people, so to pay attention. even the, the spell that bought us johnson could cast over the media sort of goes as well. and the media center cast round and look at what else is going on. the no longer focused themselves in a sort of a semi deity quarter deity. perhaps view of the prime minister that's spelled broken and they're looking as do what's going on. and whereas the next piece of trouble coming from the prime minister. and there's probably quite a lot of trouble coming from the premise of, you know, the sort of things he's doing and on kid in england is something that's definitely

going to bite him because you can't tell people that black is white and, and white is black, unexpected to suspend disbelief in the way the bodies johnson is hoping they will. but when you go, when you get back to bada the we can talk of the steamy and bottom that the prime minister might be selling autism and the saw thing didn't topple lloyd, george didn't topple stanley bolden. it doesn't topple tony blair. is it going to knock over bonus johnson? it could knock over borders, johnson, but i think that would depend on, on our police force kidding about the law. who knows with borders, johnson has done and said about the to the period. for instance, back a decade. yeah. got your receptionist working on that now? i think it did. yes. it's something. it's something worth seeing because i'm pretty sure bought as johnson would have at the time. surely would have called it as he saw it. but honestly, being sold a question as did he say anything about it? did he say with an imprint perhaps some of the viewers of your program are,

might be the ones who will find those very words somewhat or other. i was interested to go back to that clip we should at the starter, the student of you. finally a i was interested in the primers expression for you starting questing. that was a sort of mixture of he'll, we go again. oops. what's coming now? what do you, what did you take out of the prime minister, sir? glance at you when you, when you started on your line of questioning. oh, i think the prime minister was hoping to sort of go away at the same time. he sort of trying to make a friend of you. at the same time he's a he's, he starts to good and rabbit holes and i told him you, you're heckling yourself. prime minister. he makes up things himself and he was in the chair, played interrupt me of the liaison committee said he's waffling, so i have to i have to interrupt the prime minister and he plays for time is probably the biggest thing he just thing and i want this over with this is an unusual angle, this guy comes from it's not one i understand particularly well. i don't even

understood the word slander. for instance, when i, when we were talking over and i'm sort of warm slant vital word. in fact, typically the most important word in the gallic language are healthy for the national views. what a slides me like with health and really good health when you've got a drama of scotland, finest in your hand. i go spread of it. bill. thank you so much for joining me once again. on the i'll examine, show. great pleasure. thank you. and definitely georgia, 80 in the high for common doesn't make it immune from political pressure. the own austin tobacco. what the prime minister eliza, on the limits of political power, he couldn't see of his friend. but the same time the government successfully fended off a house of lords boards to protect the incomes of millions of pensioners. it may seem remarkable that the mainstream media invested so much effort into the issue of empty financial dealings and so little into the income of heart braced pensioners. what the issues threatened long term damage to the government's position,

no dates in there. we small hours of the morning, the prime minister news is underworld without turbulent parliamentarians, such as lord secor or anger smith. he is, however, unlikely to get one, but no from alex myself and oh, at virtue is good bye. stay stiff, and we hope to see you all again next week. ah ah. ah, one of the many paradoxes of big coin is that it wants everyone to attack it. that's what makes it strong. that's it. makes security go

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ah, yes. wearing him off, and even that is on my 10 south africa seems reluctant to tighten its covey restrictions at the moment, despite being the 1st country to detect the concerning new straight arm across the spectra war has returned to europe, that startling mourning coming from russia's top diplomat had his meeting with this you as counterpart, a circular rock tries to ease tensions around nato's expansion in the region. in the u. k. thousands of him without electricity, no for almost a week following an intense storm there. spoke he complaints now that the government lagging in its response back. i'm hope it's what it feels like. like i have no roots. everything feels up to that you really have a base so that hard. ah.