you so much a profess issue for coming on we're hearing here of scottish cases that preceded the announcement from south africa let alone cases without any known travel in london. we don't want to be speculating on where the cobra is going to follow the usual virus. part of that more transmission, less less illness. but what is the situation there? is that basically it high transmission less more mild disease? yeah, i think i have to appreciate everything you're going to say is that, is there any days, you know, you're busy studying this. first of all, this is a brand new bars. and i said, brand new, it's unrelated to any of the previous variances are completely different evolutionary tree. it's not a, an offshoot to one of the previous periods. that's the one thing. the other thing is got a large number of mutants reasons that we've and something that we've never seen before. so even in the critical spike protein, that's a protein that the virus needs to establish in fiction, there over 30 mutations and some brand new. we never,

never seen for some of these mutations do govern things like choice visibility, or was infectiousness, as well as the vaccine landscape. in other words, that the individuals who are vaccinations may still get the infection that's at the molecular level in terms of the clinical level in terms observational level, the school is early dives. we're getting some kind of in clean, but i must suppress this an inkling rather than data driven, that it is more transmissible because it's displayed very rapidly. 3 high reproductive number about 2.32.5. and also reaching a large number of cases can't give you a quantitative thing because it is developing the old time of individuals that are the 40, the action that are picked up the infection. but for she, these have been mild cases. and in terms of our house is a little guy, he's a mile mile cases, and i want to get a vaccination in a 2nd. why? when we heard from good tang province from the national institute of communicable

diseases, hospitalisation had gone up hundreds of percent, 330 percent in the in days after. i'm not sure you know that's changing all the time. but we say mild and yet hospitalisation as increase and of course w h o is warned against these of the word mild. yeah, now i'm living qualify mild of those that have had a breakthrough that have been vaccinated and they get infected. and it has been about a year right about a doubling of hospital admissions in the counting province. not nationally, but we'll be all in janice in accounting province, but still pretty kind of low. we're our thing credit to mind about $700.00 admissions as a guys. well, when we and that weighs about 7000 or more, so really, and the great majority of those have been unvaccinated or any partially vaccinated . so our relation, we do know that correlation of iran, iraq to vaccine predicts against severe disease more than a fiction. but how the army crohn's gun express itself. i think that we still need

to wait to store too early. you know, you only had this of ours. what about a week or 10 days? so we only accumulating data. now let's just talk about incentives. since we can't really hook it, because there just isn't, we're going to wait another week, maybe for the lab results. can all developing nations do you think now expect to be hit by de facto travel? boycott economic warfare. if they identify a very and if they're in the global south, i mean, i'm talking about incentives here. as regards, this is a problem. you know, we would like to think that science is transparent that tries open. i think it's in everybody's interest science to be immediately transparent, but it now seems to carry with it a bit of baggage, you know, if want immediately and makes an announcement lock so that we could do them as just to be a scientifically peer. if you get penalized and there might be, will a distance into to announce this very, very unfortunate because it anyone gets

a handle when understands what's going on. the better one can respond and science needs to be transparent. so this is very counterproductive. shouldn't have been done, there is no need for their travel bed. that's not scientific notation, evidence. it's actually punitive. and as i said, it's a disincentive which can be a distance to, to come forward with scientific data. but you would still advise your counterparts across the global south hit hugely economically by the pandemic with excess deaths not only due to cooper, but due to the economic consequences of it. you'd still say to them, please do publish data. please do tell the w h o things are variant even though it may risk the health of your populations because of the economic damage. thank goodness, i'm not a politician. you know, i'm a scientist and a scientist, a medical scientist. it's an everybody global interest in our tried to kind of encourage, even in as a government major publication, but they might be

a bit more reluctance. now i don't know. well, it's clear that the vaccination so far on the data seems to be better. the no, no vaccination you have you have the vaccination is 129 percent one dose. was it 25 percent? it's like around 30 percent vaccination. we have 69 percent here in britain, keeping a show that cove axis failed if you're so low. and as regards hesitancy, what is, what is it about the white community? since it's white that particularly disproportionately hesitant, they don't want to take the vaccine. 75 percent of black, only 52 percent of whites. what is about white people in south africa? the don't want to take the vaccine. yeah, let me correct 2 things. visual, i've actually courage a lot higher than 25 percent. it's about 4445 percent having a single dose, maybe a complete, complete vaccination,

maybe in the late 30 percent. but i agree with you certainly is low in terms of the racial breakdown of his and c. o 2 query those figures. i'm not sure i haven't heard those figures. the ones you quoted now. i queried, i think the action here was and see is a universal problem in south africa as is world wide. but certainly we are. we do have a lot of it because we've got ample vaccine stores at the moment, but unfortunately, it's not being taken up in the story. this is the universe, your hand is work figures. yeah. hi. i wonder where they go. okay, well as to go as we've got supply, i mean, you must have heard about that in nature. they cited new york times piece about our vaccines that were supposed to be partnered with the durban company, johnson and johnson who ended up percent to europe. and joe biden is talking about our vaccines are being sent away from south africa. what? because you don't have refrigerators? no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not true. no,

no. these alters all check temperature storage. this order temperature storage. there's adequate desire. there's adequate temperature service storage for city. that's not the problem. it was a contractual problem. by the way, it was, it's actually called her back and now it used to be called for those of a not durban. there's a factory which is doing the film and finish, not the production just to finish the ambulance. and there were under contractual obligation to supply the parent company. i think that was the problem. and i agree with you certainly was a, the certainly was a what's the word for is unusual to start to make it move and milder for to be full, didn't finish setting and then be shipped out when we were in order to just made about that contract rubbish. but why, why that was a durbin case. i think it's your, when you're referring to is different. i know these companies are saying no, this is, this is a, you know, we're going to try not to do that kind of thing. the w h o chief scientist, to me, i saw me. nathan obviously says that innovating pharma companies should put their

intellectual property rights in the medicine, pate, and pulled back by the united nations. is there just too much money to be made by big pharma, from these vaccines and the center from ox, firm biotech. a $1000.00. a profit made every 2nd from coven vaccine? yeah. well, that's the problem. you know, dr. richard rich, rushing article earlier. it should. now the vaccine should not be treated as a commercial commodity because you get, we get into these kind of difficulties. i know there's a problem cuz you do need your funds to do the research to produce the vaccines. and that usually does come from pharma, where i think that needs to be some kind of like university funding as well. i should say that the public will maybe to some extent. but i think for marianne ok also managing organizations as well, which was due for breaking the bottom line. i think the important thing is that i think vaccine should not really be a commercial commodity. i know it might be idealistic, it might be dreams,

but i think there must be some mechanism by which one can regulate vaccine supply search equitably. because at the moment the problem is the universe. it's not just, it's not actual stickers, not too many tyria. it's a real problem because if africa is very much and of x and i, which is at the moment, that's where you're going to get your variance variance you're going to come from. there's really important bars going to come from variance mean more profits, by the way, obviously because you can then manufacture a new one. but anyway, these, the seo pfizer, albert, who manufacture the one i've got maybe the one inside you said this intellectual property debate. the problem is scarcity of highly specialized materials needed to produce the vaccine, which is why i p waivers cannot be granted to see. poor countries may disrupt the flow of raw materials, 280 ingredients or 1000 countries in each phase of vaccine. now the problem is, you, people in south africa, you disrupt the supply chain if,

if you could manufacture it willy nilly in south africa. and by that, no, unfortunately, look, i'm not in that facility. i'm not, i'm not a commercial, not a production person. i but you know, there are it, i'm in the all the, these at the moment, developing local manufacturing capability. a color joint ventures certainly can be done and should be done. it will be done. and i think, but i think the actual distribution, i think that needs to be it has to be controlled because it's important for everybody. so coming quite apart from that java c over i'm f loan repayment and 4300000000 is being given. i don't know whether that's contingent on privatization of your health care industry. what did you make of the fact, the g 7, the richest countries in the world? they said they gave strong support to set up an international pathogen surveillance system within a w h o framework support for it. what do you think about the urgency being

given to these systems now that we've had covered for some years now? and as i said, the incentives seem to be, don't report to the w h o l because you're going to suffer economically. and the more variance, the more money for the big pharma companies. i think the one to reverse those 2 things. what you just did now, i think we do need good surveillance, but i think there must be punitive consequences promoting notification. i think there needs to be manufacturing and distribution and for land finish facilities in the developing world. i think that's really that, that that's, that's not just a dream. this, that's a practicality. i think when i think code is gonna teach us to listen, that we need to be more critical and stop hoarding vaccine to which the developing world draft will sorry, the developed world is doing and just very, very quickly. why is it in the countries with highest vaccination rates,

they seem to have the highest number of cases and that's for capital. is that just surveillance? no, i got a district character, certainly, cases per capita. because i think that the point is that the developed developed countries, i think lifted their restriction to soon i think there was too much economic pressure to lift those restrictions. and you look the restrictions, the actions can do a lot, but they can't do everything. we still need to the way we understand as far as and the transmission of this was we do need to supplement what vaccines are doing with those public health measures. there's infection prevention mission. we can't, can't get away with that at the moment. maybe in a year's time, maybe in tears down we can, but certainly not at the moment as a voucher. thank you. thanks after the break heaven on earth or spiritual battlefield, we examined the political impact of speaking in tongues from bolton, our own brazilian, to trump in washington, dc. all of them all coming up about 2 of going underground

with ah, ah, well, oh, a a ah, with this in their interest for some financial pundents to see the value of the currency

lose value because they can gain traction on social media saying it's somehow a good thing, but not everybody is undertaken. not everyone is a grave robber. you know, some people are actually out there trying to be productive and productive lives. and of course, that philosophy of, oh, the currency is gone to 0 less than 0. and that's a good thing is a is the, is the math lewis. ah, welcome back. 52 years ago to day civil rights activists. fred hampton was murdered by the f. b. i under its co until pro program. as a marxist lennon, his hampton was julia where mugs, calling religion the opium of the people that marks also called religion the soviet pressed. that couldn't be true in a new book beyond belief. how pentecostal christianity is taking over the world? it's rather l hardy joins me now. l thank so much for coming on and what, what a book. i mean obviously by sunset to day what on average 35000 people of good words do it. so they'll think it's a stupid question, but what is pentecostalism?

shall i say it's, it's a branch of evangelical christianity. i call it bullock born again plus. so 1st year you accept jesus as your lord and savior. and then you feel with the holy spirit say that gives you it. it brings you things like healing miracles and most notably, speaking in tongues. originally that was the ability to go to foreign lands and convert people. now it seen as much more of a as spiritual language, a unique thing that you can have with god or a unique expression of your faith. and i'll get as defact political oh, repercussions all of that. i should just quickly say, since everyone has the pandemic on their mind muscles. yeah. but we're certainly thing happening in, in a few different ways. so. so 1st of all, people who particularly in the global south have a very spiritual conception of the wealth. this wasn't a disease, it is dark forces and you need to double down your faith to, to get rid of them. so we've seen the tanzanian president eyes very influenced by

pentecostalism die from this. he denied that it was happening, that it was just spiritual things going on in the world, and he eventually succumb to it. we've also seen some, some more interesting things happening that within us or in the pandemic, that it sort of accelerated certain trends that were going on. so just like a lot of mom and pop stores have shots in all parts of the world, because the only thing that could really say open and compete in, in the pandemic where you know, your big box safe markets and things like that. we're seeing that with, with a lot of churches as well. so a lot of small churches were before the close in the world and they just didn't have the infrastructure. they're like a hill song on and like a lot of the other big churches who could already broadcast the line. so it, so they're getting huge amounts of new followers who still wanted that sunday morning experience that went over to get it from their local church. but was it incur if so, increasing now you say in the book with me, it's always been able to sell itself. i mean, the read the line up here was presley johnny. cash we became little richard says to rosetta, thought we were going,

watch that video on you to reverse register music very aligned to the public relations side of it even more. so the method isn't per yeah, much more say pentagon as have always been really goods and this is a big part of their success in, in the modern world. is saying that you can have a good life now as well as in the ever after. it doesn't have to be on fire and brimstone, you can feel good as well as feel god. so it's when you, when he was tend to think of an old school evangelical in america, they're thinking of a hell fire preacher playing with rattlesnakes. and, and yelling about abortion from the pulpit in the deep south of america. but, but the modern pentecostal and is, is a, is a young, upwardly mobile woman in, in latin america, africa. and she's concerned about her community, her family, she's interested in social justice. she's probably fairly socially conservative and but for her, the church is, is about seeing values in the here. now it's about improving your life and

improving the lives of those around you and ultimately transforming society. and by social justice, you mean what charity him for? love really because in the book you say, and i've got the, i've got the matthew 1924 camel needle verse written where, but you say in the book was different about the prosperity gospel is the, is the exclusive idea that it's perfectly acceptable even desirable to give the church give to the church in order to get rid it broken to costless wells is a sign of the strength of your faith. absolutely. so again, it comes to that, that idea that about living a good life and, and here now and, and pentecostals do say the world very spiritually. so it is, things are often a test survey. so whether it's covered, whether it's, it's getting enough food on the table, those sorts of things or are all saying with it within a, within a world view that, that is very spiritual, is higher that we're name a few. 1920, voids out of her richmond. and to have them go through the over needle pentagon, very famously, a very good at telling 2 stories at once. so it say you can be be concerned with,

with making the world a better place. and you can also be concerned with, with, with making money for yourself, and that's quite fine. and again that, that is that the, the, sorry of the here now and ever after. i mean, there are other elements of strains of christianity and probably as low as well as the do this with capitalism. you say in the book neurosciences reveal the same neural systems associated with drug digging or activated. when individuals are feeling the spirit, i mean that, that, that is all 3 back to marks. did you notice on your travels? yes, very much so and, and i'm not a person of faith myself, i'd say an agnostic. but i've, i've been to hundreds of church services around the world over the last few years. and pentecostals do a good church service. it is, it is uplifting their production values are really high. that the music is, is wonderful. and, and one of the things that really has power pentico says, and since the beginning is, is,

is music is that ecstatic worship it is. it is experience. it is what you personally feel not necessarily just what you're being told or what you're writing in the bible. it is the very sensual and very important to people and very understandable in the modern world where, you know, people might necessarily like what experts telling them what to read in the book. but they just know that they go to this particular church, or this particular passa, and they feel good about it. and it's so very class based as well. and some biblical, the spiritual colonialism you use, that determine the book of how it spreads all around the world. adapting to different cultures, whether it be latin american road, southeast asia, rural africa, very much sarah. and i really interesting phenomenon were actually saying at the moment is what's called reverse evangelism. so we thing, a lot of preachers come from africa and latin america and come to europe and america because they, they feel that they've lost their way. secular liberalism is the strong society. they usually point to gay marriages as the thing are, that they don't like. and

a lot of these preachers are coming to, to re evangelize the west. ah, but, but obviously that there's other things going on and of faith that sought it in america. 19 o 6 and spread out to the wells has a lot of connotations. but unlike a lot of other christian strains of, of the faith it's, it's very localized, it looks and it sounds like a local culture. so for example, it's really taken off in the fellas in brazil traditionally that the catholic faith in brazil. you've had a, a white preacher, educated in spain of portugal and be dropped into your small village on the fringes of the amazon or, or, you know, in a feller and rio de janeiro. ah, and bring faith to you in that very though my scholarly manner. whereas at pentecost breech preacher has bubbled up from below with you. he's probably the most charming guy in the village. oh, the fellow. he is mixed. race like you. he looks and sounds like you. he grew up playing football with you. he knows that your mother 2nd goes round and visits her

. he starts church at 5 in the morning because he knows everyone's got to be at work at the factory by 7 am. he will go around to the pub and you know, tell, tell your idiot husband said to get out of the public eye hammond, look after his family. and that again, is that the real here now pentecostalism does really well and, and why it's a meaningful opinion. says gone from 3 percent 30 percent of brazil allied to her gangs or works in prisons help. also don ira when you mentioned l g b g q plus rights. you are talking about social conservatism with but it goes in that america. we knew about catholic liberation, theology allied with the, with the left. her. you talk about guatemala. i mean, this is where pentecostalism was. it's allied to deaths, quartz allied to washington. hello to pat robertson, the reagan era. death squads and controls. yeah. got quite a mile as a really interesting case study. it might even be the most pentecostal nation on her englanders in the grow as well in terms of percentages. but, but it,

it really came through those 30 was in latin america in the seventy's and eighty's . and in guatemala, that there might have been the world's 1st pentecostal leader in a friend rios mont, and he oversaw the bloodiest a 17 months of the civil war. that he heavily pentecost lies the nation as well as an earthquake natural disasters at tend to breed pentecostalism. it gets, gets people thinking about the end of days and also about the material conditions. so again, that they're here now as, as well as the ever after a yet it's been very closely associated with, with american rule in that part of the world. and, and we're seeing a pentecostal drug deal has in brazil or who are effectively militia leaders who happened to be religiously inclined. do they de facto burbridge genocide of native americans and indigenous peoples in london? word yes. say in my book, i do go to latin america to add to guatemala, to investigate a murder of

a traditional medicine healer. and he was murdered by the people in his village for practicing and preaching. this is natural, a medicine that's very rooted in mind, traditional beliefs, ands and certainly what we're saying, i'm very interestingly in guatemala and some other places in the world is, is often indigenous lead people turning on their own former beliefs once they pentico slice and, and part of that is painted esl, pentecostalism. it is very understanding of how the modern world works. so they really understand its marketplace of ideas and a marketplace of beliefs. and there's a direct competitor in terms of traditional healing, of traditional artifacts and things like that. unfortunately gets violent with ideas such as spiritual warfare and seeing everything in terms of, of good and evil, to redo my my, my jury people going to mosques. one for the morning am the pentecostal church leave will traditionally that that was the way it's becoming less so now and so

much say that there is one a is lamb except in nigeria, that is is sort of called born again, islam or charismatic islam site said that pentecostal eyes, because they were losing a lot of their flock. the yorba people around lagos traditionally would into marry among faith. so you might have a, a christian father animals. the mother said they might go to her to both churches. gotta make better grandmas happier or however it is go going to both church and mosque and, and over time they noticed that they were losing, you know, these kids on fridays and they, they were just going to church or sunday because it's giving them health and wealth and, and putting on a really good show and, and, and giving them a lot more than, than traditional islam. so, so one particular sect is, is, is pentagon lising in its own way, although they certainly don't like, are they like me saying that? i says like the i, we're from will bank over low to answer for in terms of the,

the conversion. i mean, they also preach the and times and they completely support israel. but do they support israel and are anti brothers to new in the sense that on the day of judgment, all the jews will then be killed and only they will go to heaven and the jews will go to hell. is that their bazaar believe in israel? it's very interesting and it's if it got so it's a square and it's a, you know, a lot of historically a lot of evangelical christians where we're fairly anti semitic until 3040 years ago. and now they are distinctly filer symmetric with their file is really up to the end times when jesus come. yeah, no one really likes getting into that. that part. but certainly the times is a consideration for, for pentagon said most evangelicals, but pentecostals in particular, israel is, is hugely important to them. it's also symbolizes a part of the strong political alliance that we're saying. and in many ways, i think that is the more immediate concern for supporting israel. then the longer

term end of days this going up from and move pros on this parties are yes. so it's a tramp all bon boss and are in brazil deterred a in philippines. they were all had very early pentecostal backing and certainly understood that there was this wing of supporters who would be quite rusted on if they looked after them. and i know when trump said that he was moving the embassy to jerusalem, which was a big thing for pentecostals, he said, oh yeah, it's not really for me, this is, this is for is this for the christian l. adi. thank you. that's over the show. will be back on monday. 23 is to the day a good chavez was elected president of venezuela. sanction now by the usa. and you pay off to chavez, arguably eradicated literacy and increase life expectancy until then he would touch via social media and let us know whether you think that state failure is responsible for the rise of radical religious thinking. ah,

the war on drugs started as a way to combat a gray problem. what's the war on drugs? it's part of the attitude of the nation, not just of north dakota, and it got to be something that you could get elected. this time in the fight against drugs took a to try and shake. he told us that andrew was a confidential informant. this is way too dangerous for him to be doing. clearly they put him in harm's way. a rural college student doesn't just get shot in the head and found in a river like that. something else had to be happening. ah .

the world is driven by dreams shaped banks, concur some of those with ah, who dares thinks we dare to ask ah, headlines here were naughty international twitter faces of biology of accusations

that are doing the u. s. government bidding. it's off to the social media giant work with a washington think tank can suspending more than 3000 accountants from 6 countries for alleged state back to propaganda. the u. k. is a royal college of midwives, apologizes for new inclusive guidelines describing mothers as quote, post natal people, one former and a chest nurse tells us a vocal minority has hijacked this conversation. yet to now the example of stem role going in with diversity offices and telling people how to reset the thing, can base them at landmark ruling. a woman born with a spinal.