video call, we'll see how that goes for you. of course, we'll be covering that here. we're not international on air and on line from the me time your program returns at the top of the time. a with them action retention you're watching, going underground amid global fee is over. a new coven variant on the current coming up with the jo ann advisor to the 1st government that reported on the corner of the world health organization. and whether the next variant will not to be reported for fear of nato nation sanction. and at the end of day's coming, we investigate why today 35000 people on average will have converted to a form of christianity that has turned the globe into

a spiritual battlefield and empowered the rise of world leaders from trump to boston. ara, all the same or coming up in today's going underground with fast as the u. k. government introduces a fresh wave of cove. it measures just had a christmas after a new very to concern on the chrome was detected in south africa. let's go straight to jana's, work to speak to professor barry schubert, chair of south africa's ministerial advisory committee on covey. 19 vaccines. thank you so much. a professorship for coming on. we're hearing here of scottish cases that preceded the announcement from south africa let alone cases without any have known travel in london. we don't want to be speculating on where the cobra is going to follow the usual virus path of that more transmission the less and less illness . but what is the situation there? is that basically it high transmission or less more mild disease? yeah, i think i have to push it everything. rio rancho is that is 30 days. you know, you're busy studying this. first of all, this is a brand new bars. and i said,

brand new, if you like to, to any of the previous variances are completely different evolutionary tree. it's not a an offshoot or one of the previous periods. that's the one thing. the other thing is got a large number of mutants reasons that we've and something that we've never seen before. so even in the critical spike protein, that's a protein that the bars needs to establish in fiction, there over 30 mutations and some brand new. we know we never seen for some of these mutations do govern things like choice visibility, or was infectiousness, as well as vaccine landscape. in other words, that the individuals who are vaccinated may still get the infection that's at the molecular level in terms of the clinical level, inches, observational level. this tool is early dimes. we're getting some kind of inkling, but i must suppress this an inkling rather than data driven, that it is more transmissible because it's displayed very rapidly. 3 high reproductive number about 2.32.5. and also reaching

a large number of cases can't give you a quantitative thing because it is developing the old time of individual's out of the 40 vaccinated that are picked up the infection. but for she, these have been mild cases. and in terms of our house is a mile mile cases, and i want to get the vaccination in a 2nd. why we were we heard from good tang province from the national institute of communicable diseases. the hospitalisation has gone up hundreds of percent, 330 percent in the in days after i'm not sure, you know, that's changing all the time. but we say mild and yet hospitalisation as increase and of course w h o is warned against these of the word mild. yeah, now i'm living, qualify mild of those that have had a breakthrough that have been vaccinated and it has been about a year right. about a doubling of hospital admissions in the counting province. not nationally been out will be on janice in accounting province,

but still pretty kind of low. we're our thing. credit about 700 admissions as a guys. well when we in there weighs about 7000 or more. so really and the great majority of those have been unvaccinated or any partially vaccinated. so our relation, we do know that your relation to whether yeah, iraq to vaccine predicts against severe disease more than a fiction. but how the army crohn's gun to express itself. i think that you still need to wait to store too early, you know, you only had this of ours. what about a week or 10 days? so accumulating data. now let's just talk about incentives. since we can't really took a day to get, there just isn't. we going to wait another week, maybe for the lab results. can all developing nations, do you think now expect to be hit by de facto travel boycott economic warfare, if they identify very and if they're in the global south. i mean, i'm talking about incentives here. as regards, this is a problem, you know,

we would like to think that science is transparent, that tries to things and everybody's interest. besides, to be immediately transparent. but it now seems to carry with it a bit of baggage, you know, if want immediately and makes an announcement lock so that we could do them as just to be a scientifically peer. if you get pin loss and that might be, will a distance into to announce earlier that very, very unfortunate because anyone gets a handle when understands what's going on, the better one can respond and science needs to be transparent. so this is very counterproductive or shouldn't have been done. there is no need for their travel bed. that's not scientific notation, evidence, it's actually punitive. and as i say, there's a disincentive which can be a distance thing to, to come forward with scientific gesture. but you would still advise your counterparts across the global south hit hugely economically by the pandemic with excess deaths not only due to cooper, but due to the economic consequences of it. you'd still say,

please do publish data. please do tell the w chose things i'm a variant even though it may risk the health of your populations because of the economic damage. thank goodness, i'm not a politician. you know, i'm a scientist and a scientist, a medical scientist. it's an everybody, globally interest in our tried to kind of encourage even an answer to get even government major publication, but they might be a bit more reluctance. now i don't know. well, it's clear that the vaccination so far on the data seems to be better. the no, no vaccination you have you have the vaccination? is 129 percent one dose. was it 25 percent? it's like in the around 30 percent vaccination. we have 69 percent here in britain, keeping a show that kovacs is failed if you're so low. and as regards hesitancy, what is, what is it about the white community?

since it's white that particularly disproportionately hesitant, they don't want to take the vaccine. 75 percent of blacks. only 52 percent of whites. one is about white people in south africa. don't want to take the vaccine. let me correct 2 things. visual. i've actually covers a lot higher than 25 percent. it's about 4445 percent. having a single dose, maybe a complete, complete vaccination, maybe in the late 30 percent. but i agree with you certainly is low in terms of the racial breakdown of his in c. o, which query those figures? i'm not sure. i haven't heard those figures. the ones you quoted now, i was queried, i think vaccine ever since she is a universal problem in south africa as is world wide. but certainly we are, we do have a lot of it because we got ample vaccine stores at the moment. but unfortunately not being taken up in the story. this is the university. johanna's work figures. yeah, i wonder where they go. okay. well as to got as we got supply,

i mean you must have heard about that in nature. they cited new york times piece about our vaccines that were supposed to be partnered with the durbin company, johnson and johnson who ended up present to europe. and joe biden is talking about our vaccines are being sent away from south africa. one because you don't have refrigerators? no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not true. no, no. these alters all check temperature storage. this ordinary temperature stores, there's adequate desire. there's adequate temperature, service storage facility. that's not a problem. it was a contractual problem. by the way, it was, it's actually called her back and now it used to be called for those of a not durbin, there's a factory which is doing the film and finish not the production just to finish the ambulance. and they were under contractual obligation to supply the parent company . i think that was a problem. and i agree with you certainly was a certain he was a what's the word for us,

unusual to start to make it move and milder for to be fully finished. and staffing, and then be shipped out when we were in order to just made about that contractual gosh. but why, why that was a durbin case. i think if you're, when you're referring to is different. i know these companies are saying, no, this is, this is a, you know, we're going to try not to do that kind of thing. the w h o chief scientists to me, i saw me. nathan obviously says that innovating pharma companies should put their intellectual property rights in the medicine paper and pulled back by the united nations. is there just too much money to be made by big pharma, from these vaccines and the center from ox firm biotech. modernity is a $1000.00. a profit made every 2nd from coven vaccine? yeah. well that's the problem. you know, dr. richard rich, rushing article earlier. it should. now the vaccine should not be treated as a commercial commodity because you get, we get into these kind of difficulties. i know there's a problem cuz you do need your funds to do the research to produce the vaccines.

and that usually does come from former routing needs to be some kind of make university funding as well. i should just have a public well maybe to, to some extent. but i think for marianne, look, also managing organizations as well, which was due for broadening the bottom line. i think the important thing is that i think vaccine should not really be a commercial commodity. i know it might be idealistic, it might be dreams, but i think there must be some mechanism by which one can regulate vaccine supplier search equitably. because at the moment the problem is the universe. it's not just, it's not actual stickers, not too many tyria. it's a real problem because if africa is very much and of x and i, which is at the moment, that's where you're going to get your variance variance you're going to come from. there's really important var is going to come from variance mean more profits by the way, obviously because you can then manufacture a new one. but anyway, these, the seo pfizer, albert, who manufacture the one i've got maybe the one inside you said this intellectual

property debate. the problem is scarcity of highly specialized materials needed to produce the vaccine, which is why i p waivers cannot be granted to see poor countries. me disrupt the flow of raw materials, $280.00 ingredients from $1000.00 countries in each phase of vaccine. now the problem is, you, people in south africa, you disrupt the supply chain if, if you could manufacture it willy nilly in south africa. how to imply that no, unfortunately look, i'm not in that facility. i'm not, i'm not a commercial, not a production person. i but you know, the already, i'm in the all the, these at the moment, developing local manufacturing capability, a color joint ventures certainly can be done and should be done. it will be done. and i think, but i think the actual distribution, i think that needs to be it has to be controlled because it's important for everybody. so coming quite above from controversy over,

i'm f loan repayment center, 4300000000 has been given. i don't know whether that's contingent on privatization of your health care industry. what did you make of the fact that g 7, the richest countries in the world? they said they gave strong support to set up an international pathogen surveillance system within a w h o framework support for it. what do you think about the urgency being given to these systems now that we've had covered for some years now? and as i said, the incentives seem to be, don't report to the w h o l because you're going to suffer economically. and the more variance, the more money for the big pharma companies. i think we want to reverse those 2 things. what you just did now, i think we do need good surveillance, but i think there must be punitive consequences. primarily notification. i think the needs to be manufacturing and distribution and for land finish facilities in

the developing world. i think that's really that, that that's, that's not just a dream. this, that's a practicality. i think when is being covered is going to teach us admission that we need to be more critical and stop hoarding vaccine to which the developing world draft will sorry, the developed world is doing and just very, very quickly. why is it in the countries with highest vaccination rates, they seem to have the highest number of cases and that's for capital. is that just surveillance? no, no, i got a district character, certainly, cases per capita. because i think that the point is that the developed relative to countries, i think lifted their restriction to soon i think there was too much economic pressure to lift those restrictions. and you look at the restrictions, the actions can do a lot, but they can't do everything. we still need to the way we understand as far as the transmission of this was, we do need to supplement what vaccines are doing with those public health measures . there's infection prevention is we can't,

can't get away that at the moment. maybe in a year's time, maybe in 2 years time we can, but certainly not at the moment of as a voucher. thank you. thanks after the break heaven on earth or spiritual battlefield, we examine the political impact of speaking in tongues from bullets in our own brazilian to trump in washington dc. all the people coming up about 2 of going undergrad with this in their interest for some financial pundents to see the value of the currency lose value because they can gain traction on social media saying it's somehow a good thing, but not everybody is an undertaker, not everyone is a grave, robert, you know, some people are actually out there trying to be productive and lead productive lives. and of course, that philosophy of, oh, the currency has gone to 0 and less than 0. and that's a good thing is the is the,

is the, is the mat lewis. oh said linda, have to say this, then the criterion germany for many years has been come to debility with public opinion. those politicians pass as competent. we act in line with what people expect from them, but public opinion is produced or shaped by mass media. those are shaped by journalists. most german journalists are sympathizers of the social democrats of the green. therefore, as long as it, cuz you renan social democratic policy projects you pass is a competent leader. welcome back. 52 years ago today, civil rights activists, fred hampton,

was murdered by the f. b. i under its co intel pro program. as a marxist lennon, his hampton was surely aware mugs calling religion the opium of the people that marks also called religion the side of the oppressed. that couldn't be true in a new book beyond belief. how pentecostal christianity is taking over the world? it or the l. hardy joins me now. l thank so much for coming on and what, what a book. i mean, obviously by sunset today, what on average 35000 people will have converted do it. so they'll think it's a stupid question, but what is pentecostalism? so i say it's, it's a branch of evangelical christianity. i call it bullock bon again. plus so fast you, you accept jesus as your lord and savior. and then you feel with the holy spirit say so that gives the it brings the new things like healing miracles and most notably speaking in tongues. originally that was the ability to go to foreign lands and convert people. now it seen as much more of a spiritual language, a unique thing that you can have it, god, a unique expression of your faith. and i'll get his defect,

political repercussions of all of that. i should just quickly saves. and everyone has the pandemic on their mind. because well, micron, you do say in the book and i know you research it during the better make the, the pandemic is aided her, the conversion of more and more people to go to coastal. yeah, but we're certainly thing happening in, in a few different ways. so, so 1st of all, people who particularly in the global south have a very spiritual conception of the wealth. this wasn't a disease, it is dark forces, and you need to double down your faith to, to get rid of them. so we've, we've seen the tanzanian president, i is very influenced by pentecostalism die from this. he denied that it was happening, that it was just spiritual things going on in the world and he eventually succumb to it. we've also seen them some more interesting things happening that within us or in the pandemic, that it sort of accelerated certain trends that were going on. so just like a lot of mom and pop stores have shots in all parts of the world,

because the only thing that could really say open and compete in during the pandemic were, you know, your big boxes, markets and things like that. we're seeing that with, with a lot of churches as well. so a lot of small churches were, were forced to close in the world and they just didn't have the infrastructure. they're like a hill song on and like a lot of the other big churches who could already broadcast the line. so it, so they're getting huge amounts of new followers who still wanted that sunday morning experience that went over to get it from their local church. but why does it include so increasing now you say in the book with where it's always been able to sell itself. i mean, the, the, the line up here was presley johnny cash we became little richard says to rosetta, thought we were going, watch that video on you to reverse register music very aligned to the public relations side of it even more. so the method is, but yeah, much more say pentico says have always been really goods and this is a big part of their success in, in the modern world is saying that you can have a good life now as well as in the ever after. it doesn't have to be on fire and

brimstone, you can feel good as well as feel god. so it's when you, when he was tend to think of an old school evangelical in america, they think ever, ever healthy preacher playing with rattlesnakes and, and yelling about abortion from the pulpit in the deep south of america. but, but the modern pentecostal and is, is a, is a young, upwardly mobile woman in, in latin america, africa. and she's concerned about her community, her family, she's interested in social justice. she's probably fairly socially conservative. but for her, the church is, is about seeing values in the here. now it's about improving your life and improving the lives of those around you and ultimately transforming society. and by social justice, you mean what charity him for love really? because in the book you say, and i've got the, i've got the matthew 1924 camel needle verse written where, but you say in the book was different about the prosperity gospel is the, is the exclusive idea that it's perfectly acceptable even desirable to give the

church give to the church in order to get rich, the program to cost moves. wealth is a sign of the strength of your faith. absolutely. so again, it comes to that, that idea that about living a good life and, and here now and, and pentecostals do say the world very spiritually. so it is, things are often a test survey. so whether it's covered, whether it's, it's getting enough food on the table, those sorts of things are, are all saying with it within a, within a world view that, that is very spiritual, is higher, we're name a few, 1920, voids out of her richmond. and to have them go through the over needle pentagon, very famously, a very good at telling 2 stories at once. so it say you can be be concerned with, with making the world a better place. and you can also be concerned with, with, with making money for yourself, and that's quite fine. and again that, that is that, that the, sorry of the here now and ever after. i mean, there are other elements of strains of christianity and probably as low as well as

the do this with capitalism. you say in the book neurosciences reveal the same neural systems associated with drug digging or activated. when individuals of calling the spirit. i mean that, that that is, 03 back to marks, or did you notice on your travels? yes. very much sir and, and i'm not a person of faith myself, i'd say an agnostic. but i've, i've been to hundreds of church services around the world over the last years. and pentecostals do a good church service. it is, it is uplifting their production values are really high. that the music is, is wonderful. and, and one of the things that really has power pentico says, and since the beginning is, is, is music is that ecstatic worship it is. it is experience. it is what you personally feel not necessarily does what you being told or what you're writing in the bible. it is the very central and very important to people and very understandable in the modern world where people might necessarily like what experts are telling them or to reading the book. but they just know that they go to this particular church or this particular passa. and they feel good about it,

and it's so very class based as well. and some people call the spiritual colonialism. you use that term in the book of how it spreads all around the world adapting to different cultures, whether it be latin american road, southeast asia, rural africa. very much sir. and i really interesting phenomenon. we're actually saying at the moment is what's called reverse evangelism. so we thing, a lot of preachers come from africa and latin america and come to europe and america because they, they feel that they've lost their way. secular liberalism is destroying society. they usually point to gay marriages as a thing are that they don't like. and a lot of these preachers are coming to, to re evangelize the wes ah, but, but obviously that there's other things going on and of faith that started in america 19 o. 6 and spread out to the world has a lot of connotations. but unlike a lot of other christian strains of, of the faith it's, it's very localized, it looks and it sounds like the local culture. so for example,

it's really taken off in the for villas in brazil, traditionally that the catholic faith in brazil, you had a white creature educated in spain and portugal and be dropped into a small village on the fringes of the amazon or, or in a feller and rio de janeiro ah, and bring faith to you in that very almost scholarly manner. whereas at pentecost brakes preacher has bubbled up from below with you. he's probably the most charming guy in the village or the fidela. he is mixed race like you. he looks and sounds like you. he grew up playing football with you. he knows that your mother 2nd goes round and visits her. he starts church at 5 in the morning because he knows everyones gotta be at work at the factory by 7 am. he will go around to the pardon, you know, tell, tell your idiot husband said to get out of the pub and go home and look after his family. and that again is the real here. now the pentecostalism does really well and, and why it's so meaningful to pay. no, he says, gone from 3 percent, 30 percent of brazil aloe to her gangs. works in

prisons help also dora, when you mentioned l g b, g, p plus roads. you are talking about social conservatism. but of course in latin america, we knew about catholic liberation, theology allied with the, with the left. her, you talk about guatemala. i mean, this is where pentecostalism was, its allied to deaths, quartz hello to washing to hello to pat robertson, the reagan era. death squads and conjures, yeah, got quite am aaliyah's. a really interesting case that he, it might even be the most pentecostal nation on hurting holders in the grow as well . yeah. in terms of percentages. but, but it, it really came through those 30 was in latin america in the seventy's and eighty's . and in guatemala that there might have been the world's 1st pentecostal leader in a friend rios monce, and he oversaw the bloodiest and 17 months of the civil war. that he heavily pentecostals the nation as well as an earthquake. natural disasters at tend to

breed pentecostalism. it gets, gets people thinking about the end of days and also about the material conditions. so again, that they're here now as, as well as the ever after. ah, the, yet, it's been very closely associated with, with american rule in that part of the world. and, and we're seeing a pentecostal drug deal has in brazil or who are effectively militia leaders who happen to be religiously inclined. do they de facto burbridge genocide of native americans and indigenous peoples in london? word yes. say in my book, i did go to her latin america to add to guatemala, to investigate a murder of a ever traditional medicine healer. and he was murdered by the people in his village for practicing and preaching. this is natural medicine that's very rooted in mind. traditional beliefs, ands, and certainly what we're seeing a very interestingly in guatemala and some other places in the world is, is often indigenous lead people turning on their own former beliefs once they

pentico slice and, and part of that is painted hustle, pentecostalism. it is very understanding of how the modern world works. so they really understand it's marketplace of ideas and a marketplace of beliefs. and there's a direct competitor in terms of traditional healing and traditional artifacts and things like that. unfortunately gets violent with ideas such as spiritual warfare and seeing everything in terms of, of good and evil, to redo my my, my jury people going to mosques. one for the morning. and the pentecostal church mean? well traditionally that that was the way it's becoming less so now and so much say that there is one a is lamb except in nigeria, that is is sort of called born again, islam or charismatic islam site said that pentecostal eyes, because they were losing a lot of their flock. the yorba people around lagos traditionally would into marry among faith. so you might have a,

a christian father animals. the mother said they might go to her to both churches. gotta make better grandmas happier or however it is. go going to both church and mosque and, and over time they noticed that they were losing, you know, these kids on fridays and they were, they were just going to church or sunday because it's giving them health and wealth and, and putting on a really good show and, and, and giving them a lot more than, than traditional islam. so, so one particular sect is, is, is pentecost lising in its own way though they certainly don't like, i don't like me saying that i sent the i'm of them. will bank ever lead to once and for in terms of the, the conversion. i mean, they also preach the and times and they completely support israel. but do they support israel and are anti bro soon? you in the sense that on the day of judgment, all the jews will then be killed and only they will go to heaven and drizzle. go to hell. is that their bizarre belief in israel? and it's very interesting and it's difficult. so it's a square. and so you know,

a lot of historically a lot of evangelical christians were, were fairly anti semitic until 3040 years ago. and now they are distinctly filer symmetric with their file is really up to the n times when jesus come. yeah, no one really likes getting into that, that part, but certainly the times is a consideration for the pentagon said most evangelicals, but pentecostals in particular, israel is, is hugely important to them. it's also symbolizes a part of the strong political alliance that we're saying. and in many ways, i think that is the more immediate concern for supporting israel than that longer term end of days, just going out for the pro zionist parties are yes. so it's a tramp or bon boss in our in brazil deter tehan, philippines. they were all had very early pentecostal backing and certainly understood that there was this wing of supporters who would be quite rusted on if

they looked after them. and i know when trump said that he was moving the embassy to jerusalem, which was a big thing for pentecostals, he said, oh yeah, it's not really for me, this is, this is for is for the christian l. adi. thank you. that's over the show will be back on monday. 23 is to the day ago chavez was elected president of venezuela. sanction there by the u usa and u. k. after chavez, arguably eradicated literacy and increased life expectancy until then, he would touch via social media and let us know whether you think that state failure is responsible for the rise of radical religious thinking. ah, welcome to max kaiser's financial survival guide. looking flower 2 years ago with this is what happens dimensions in britain del, at this app. if you watch kaiser report

with with this, i was told that lines here one r t twitter faces up by roger accusations that is doing the u. s. government bidding. it's off of the social media giant, worked with a washington think tank and suspending, more than 3000 accountants from 6 countries for alleged states back to propaganda. but you k is a royal college of midwives. apologizes for new inclusive guideline is describing mothers as quote, post natal people, a former and address nurse tells us a vocal minority has hijacked this conversation. is yet to nova example of stone wall. going in with diversity offices and telling people how to reset the thinking that members and in a landmark ruling, a woman born with

a spinal d.