[000:00:00;00] ah ah, i mean, ah, i mention returned celia wasn't going underground amid global fears over a new coven variant on the current coming up in the show and advise it to the 1st government that reported all mich, one to the world health organization. and whether the next variant will not be reported for fear of nato nation sanction. and the end of day's coming,

we investigated why today 35000 people on average will have converted to a form of christianity that has turned the globe into a spiritual battlefield. and empowered the rise of world leaders from trump to both scenarios. all of them all coming up in today's going underground with fast as the u. k. government introduces a fresh wave of cove. it measures just had a christmas after a new, varying to concern on the chrome was detected in south africa. let's go straight to jana's work to speak to professor peri schuler, the chair of south africa's ministerial advisory committee on covey. 19 vaccines. thank you so much. a professorship for coming on we're hearing here. if scottish cases that preceded the announcement from south africa let alone cases without any have known travel in london. we don't want to be speculating on where the cobra is going to follow the usual virus path of that more transmission the less or less illness. but what is the situation there? is that basically it high transmission or less mo, mild disease, yagmi. i have to push everything reorganised. so is that a 30 days?

you know, you're busy studying this. first of all, this is a brand new virus. now said brand new, it's unrelated to any of the previous variances are completely different evolutionary tree. it's not a, an offshoot to one of the previous periods. that's one thing. the other thing is got a large number of mutants, regions active and something that we've never seen before. so even in the critical spike protein, that's a protein that the vars needs to establish and fiction over 30 mutations and some brand new. we know we never seen for some of these mutations do govern things like trust visibility, or was infectiousness, as well as vaccine landscape. in other words, that the individuals who vaccinated may still get the infection that's at the molecular level in terms of the clinical level in terms observational level. this still is early times. we're getting some kind of in clean, but i must stress this an inkling rather than data driven, that it is more transmissible because it's a spread very rapidly,

pretty high reproductive number about 2.32.5. and also reaching a large number of cases. gonna give you a quantitative thing because it is developing the old time of individuals that are the 40, the action items that are picked up in fiction. but for she, these have been mild cases in terms of our house is a mile mile case. and i want to get the vaccination in a 2nd. why we, we heard from catan province from the national institute of communicable diseases. the hospitalisation has gone up hundreds of percent, 330 percent in the days after i don't sure, you know, that's changing all the time. but we say mild and yet also lies ation as increase. and of course w h o is warned against the use of the word mild. yeah. now i really qualify mild of those that have had a breakthrough that have been vaccinated and it has been about a side bell you're, you're right about a doubling of hospital admissions in the counting province. not nationally been

there will be all in janet starting problems, but so pretty kind of low here. i think with demand about 700 admissions as you guys well when we and now weighs about 7000 or more. so it's really light and the great majority of those have been and ex, merited, or any partially vaccinated. so our relation, we do know that your relation about a, yeah, iraq, the vaccine predicts against severe disease more than the infection. but how the army crowns go new express itself? i think that we still need to wait to store too early. you know, we only have this of ours. what about a week or 10 days? so we only accumulating data now. well, let's just talk about incentives since we can't really took a day to get there just isn't we going to wait another week? maybe for the lab results. can all developing nations, do you think now expect to be hit by defacto travel? boycott economic warfare. if they identify a very and if they're in the global south, i mean,

i'm talking about incentives here. as regards, this is a problem. you know, we would like to think that science is transparent, that tries to think is everybody's interest science to be immediately transparent. but it now seems to carry with that a bit of baggage, you know if one immediately and makes an announcement lock so that we could do them as just to be a scientifically peer. if you get pin loss and there might be, will a distance into to announce earlier that very, very unfortunate because the earlier one gets a handle when understands what's going on, the better one can respond and science needs to be transparent. so this is very counterproductive. shouldn't have been done, there was no need for their travel bed. that's not scientific, not fashion evidence. it's actually punitive. and as i said, it's a distance into what can be a distance to, to come forward with scientific gesture. you would still advise your counterparts across the global south hit hugely economically by the pandemic with excess. it's

not need you to conclude, but due to the economic consequences of it, you'd still say to them, please do publish data. please do tell the w h o things variant. even though it may risk the health of your populations because of the economic damage, then goodness, i'm not a politician. you know, i'm a scientist and a scientist, a medical scientist. it's an everybody, globally interest in our tried to kind of encourage, even as a government immediate publication, but they might be a bit more reluctance. now i don't know. well, it's clear that the vaccination so far on the data seems to be better. the no, no vaccination you have you have the vaccination is 129 percent one dose. was it 25 percent? it's like the around 30 percent vaccination. we have 69 percent here in britain. keep it. what does that show?

that co axis failed if you're so low and as regards hesitancy, what is, what is it about the white community? since it's white's that particularly disproportionately hesitant, they don't want to take the vaccine. 75 percent of blacks, only 52 percent of white. one is about white people in south africa. don't want to take the vaccine. let me correct 2 things. visual. i've actually courage a lot higher than 25 percent. it's about 4445 percent having a single dose, maybe a complete, complete vaccination, maybe in the late 30 percent. but i agree with you are certainly is low in terms of the racial breakdown of his and c. o 2 query those figures. i'm not sure i haven't heard those figures. the ones you quoted now. i queried, i think vaccine ever since she is a universal problem in south africa as is world wide. but certainly we are. we do have a lot of it because we got ample vaccine stores at the moment, but unfortunately not being taken up in the story of the university of johanna's

work figures. yeah, yeah. i wonder we do. okay. well as to got, as we got supply, i mean, you must have heard about that. there was a, in nature, they cited new york times piece about our vaccines that were supposed to be partnered with durban company, johnson and john to who ended up percent to europe. and joe biden is talking about our vaccines are being sent away from south africa. what? because you don't have refrigerators? no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not true. no, no. these alters all cher temperature storage. this ordinary temperature stores, there's adequate desire this adequate temperature service storage facility. that's not a problem. it was a contractual problem. by the way, it was, it's actually called her back and now it used to be cool. for elizabeth, not durban, there's a factory which is doing the film and finish not the production just to finish the ambulance. and they were under contractual obligation to supply the parent company . i think that was the problem. and i agree with you certainly was

a certain he was a what's the word for ish, unusual to start to make it move and milder for to be full, didn't finish setting and then be shipped out when we were in order to just made about that contract of the gosh, but why, why, and that was a german case. i think the case your when you're referring to is different. i know these companies are saying, no, this is, this is a, you know, we're gonna try not to do that kind of thing. the w h o chief scientists to me, i saw me. nathan obviously says that innovating pharma companies should put their intellectual property rights in the medicine paper, pulled back by the united nations. is there just too much money to be made by big pharma, from these vaccines? and the center from ox, firm biotech. a $1000.00. a profit made every 2nd from coven vaccine. yeah. well that's the problem. you know, dr. richard rich, rushing logical, earlier with. now the vaccine should not be treated as a commercial commodity because you get, we get into these kind of difficulties. i know there's

a problem cuz you do need your funds to do the research to produce the vaccines. and that usually does come from pharma, where i think that needs to be some kind of like university funding as well. i should just said the other public. well, maybe to some extent, but i think for my and look at all 3 members cheering organizations as well, which was due for breaking the bottom line. i think the important thing is that i think vaccine should not really be a commercial commodity. i know it might be idealistic, it might be dreams, but i think there must be some mechanism by which one can regulate vaccine supplier search equitably. because at the moment the problem is the universe. it's not just, it's not l 2 or 6, not 2 and a tear. it's a real problem because if africa is very much and of x and i, which is at the moment, that's where you're going to get your variance variance you're going to come from. there's really important bars going to come from variance mean more profits by the way, obviously because you can then manufacture a new way. but anyway,

these are the seo pfizer album who manufacture the one i've got maybe the one inside you said this intellectual property debate. the problem is scarcity of highly specialized materials needed to produce the vaccine, which is why i p waivers cannot be granted to see. poor countries may disrupt the flow of raw materials, 280 ingredients from 1000 countries in each phase, the vaccine. now the problem is, you, people in south africa, you disrupt the supply chain if, if you could manufacture it willy nilly in south africa. and by that, no, unfortunately, look, i'm not in that facility. i'm not, i'm not a commercial freezer, not a production person. i but you know, there are it, i'm in the, all these at the moment, developing local manufacturing capability, a caller joint ventures certainly can be done and should be done. it will be done. and i think, but i think the actual distribution,

i think that needs to be it has to be controlled because it's important for everybody. so i mean quite a bar from controversy over i'm f loan repayment, i know 4300000000 has been given. i didn't know whether that's contingent on privatization of your health care industry. what did you make of the fact, the g 7, the richest countries in the world? they said they gave strong support to set up an international pathogen surveillance system within a w h o framework support for it. what do you think about the urgency being given to these systems now that we've had covered for some years now? and as i said, the incentives seem to be, don't report to the w h o l because you're going to suffer economically. and the more variance, the more money for the big pharma companies. i think we want to reverse those 2 things. what you just did now i think we do need good surveillance. i do, but i think there must be punitive consequences for moody notification. i think the

needs to be manufacturing and distribution and full and finish facilities in the developing world. i think that's really that, that that's, that's not just a dream. this, that's a practicality. i think when is, i think covered is going to teach us the lesson that we need to be more critical and stop hoarding vaccine to which the developing world developed ro, sorry, the developed world is 3 and just very, very quickly. why is it in the countries with highest vaccination rates, they seem to have the highest number of cases and that's for capital. is that just surveillance? no, i got a district character, certainly, cases per capita. because i think that the point is that the developed developed countries, i think lifted their restriction to soon i think there was too much economic pressure to lift those restrictions. and you look the restrictions, the actions can do a lot, but they can't do everything. we still need to the way we understand as far as and the transmission of this was we do need to supplement what vaccines are doing with

those public health measures that infection prevention mission. we can't can't get away there at the moment. maybe in a year's time, maybe in tucson, we can, but certainly not at the moment of as a voucher. thank you. thanks after the break heaven on earth or spiritual battlefield, we examined the political impact of speaking in tongues from bolton, r o in brazil, yet to trump in washington dc. all of them all coming up and bought 2 of going undergrad with join me every thursday on the alex salmon. sure. but i'll be speaking to guess what the world politics sport business, i'm show business. i'll see you then. ah,

welcome back. 52 years ago to day civil rights activists, fred hampton was murdered by the f. b. i under its co intel pro program as a marxist lemon. his hampton was surely where mugs, calling religion the opium of the people that marks also called religion the soviet pressed. that couldn't be true in a new book beyond belief. how pentecostal christianity is taking over the world? it was a l. hardy joins me now. l thank so much for coming on and what, what a book, i mean obviously by sunset to day was on average 35000 people will have converted do it. so they'll think it's a stupid question, but what is pentecostalism shall say it's, it's a branch of evangelical christianity. i call it bullock born again plus. so 1st you, you accept jesus as your lord and savior and then you feel with the holy spirit say so that gives you it. it brings the new things like healing miracles and most notably speaking in tongues. originally that was the ability to go to foreign lands and convert people. now it seen as much more of a as spiritual language, a unique thing that you can have it god or

a unique expression of your faith. and i'll get his degree political. oh, repercussions of all of that, i should just quickly saves, and everyone has the pandemic on their mind. because of all mc ron, you do say in the book and i know you research it during the been debbie that the pandemic is aided her the conversion of more and more people to pentecostalism. yeah, but we're certainly seeing it happening in, in a few different ways. so it's a festival people who, particularly in the global south have a very spiritual conception of the wealth. this wasn't a disease, it is dark forces. and you need to double down your faith to, to get rid of them. so we've seen that has a name president ais, very influenced by pentecostalism die from this. he denied that it was happening, that it was just spiritual things going on in the world. and he eventually succumb to it. we've also seen some, some more interesting things happening that within us or in the pandemic, that it sort of accelerated certain trends that we're going. and so just like

a lot of mom and pop stores have shots in all parts of the world, because the only thing that could really say open and compete in during the pandemic web, you know, your big box safe markets and things like that. where saying that with, with a lot of churches as well. so a lot of small churches were, were forced to close in the world and they just didn't have the infrastructure. they're like a hill song on and like a lot of the other big churches who could already broadcast on line so. so they're getting huge amounts of new followers who still wanted that sunday morning experience, but weren't able to get it from their local church, but was encouraged so increasing. now you say in the book with mary's always been able to sell itself. i mean, the read the line up here was presley johnny. cash we became little richard sister, rosetta thought we were going watch that video on you to reverse register music very aligned to the public relations side of it even more so the method is but yeah, much more se pentico says of always been really goods. and this is a big part of their success in the modern world, is saying that you can have

a good life now as well as in the ever after. it doesn't have to be on fire and brimstone, you can feel good as well as feel god. so it's when you, when he was tend to think of an old school evangelical in america, they're thinking of a hell fire preacher playing with rattlesnakes. and, and yelling about abortion from the pulpit in the deep south of america. but the modern pentecostal and is, is a, is a young, upwardly mobile woman in, in latin america, africa. and she's concerned about her community, her family, she's interested in social justice. she's probably fairly socially conservative and but for her, the church is, is about seeing values in the here. now it's about improving your life and improving the lives of those around you and ultimately transforming society. and by social justice, you mean what charity him for? love really because in the book you say, and i've got the, i've got matthew 1924 camel needle verse written where, but you say in the book is different about the prosperity gospel is the,

is the exclusive idea that it is perfectly acceptable even desirable to give the church give to the church in order to get rich. the pro pentecost lives wealth is a sign of the strength of your faith. absolutely. so again, it comes to that, that idea that about living a good life and, and the here and now and, and pentecostals do say the world very spiritually. so it is, things are often attest, survey. so whether it's covert, whether it's, it's getting enough food on the table. those sorts of things are, are all saying with it within a, within a world view that, that is very spiritual, is higher, that we're name a few. 1920, voids oliver richmond. and to have them go through the over needle pentecostal very famously, a very good at telling to sorry that once so it say he can be be concerned with with making the world a better place. and you can also be concerned with weight with making money for yourself, and that's quite fine. and again that, that is that the, the, sorry of the here now and ever after. i mean,

there are other elements of strains of christianity and probably as low as well as the do this with capitalism. you say in the book neurosciences reveal the same neural systems associated with drug digging or activated. when individuals are feeling the spirit or we that, that, that is all complete backed marks, or did you notice on your travels? yes, very much so and, and i'm not a person of faith myself, i'd say an agnostic and, but i've, i've been to hundreds of church services around the world over the last years. and pentecostals do a good church service. it is, it is uplifting their production values are really high that the music is, is wonderful. and, and one of the things that really has power pentico says, and since the beginning is, is, is music is that ecstatic worship it is. it is experience. it is what you personally feel, not necessarily just what you're being told or what you're writing in the bible. it is the very central and very important to people and very understandable in the modern well web. it people might necessarily like what experts are telling them or to read in the book,

but they just know that they go to this particular church or this particular parsa and they feel good about it. and it's so very class based as well. and some biblical, the spiritual colonialism you use that determine the book of how it spreads all around the world, adapting to different cultures, whether it be latin american road, southeast asia, rural africa, very much sir. and i really interesting phenomenon. we're actually saying at the moment is what's called reverse evangelism. so we thing, a lot of preachers come from africa and latin america and come to europe and america because they, they feel that they've lost their way. secular liberalism is destroying society. they usually point to gay marriages as the thing are that they don't like. and a lot of these preachers are coming to, to re evangelize the wes ah, but, but obviously that there's other things going on and of faith that sought it in america. 19 o 6 and spread out to the world has a lot of connotations, but unlike

a lot of other christian strains of, of the faith it's, it's very localized, it looks and it sounds like a local culture. so for example, it's really taken off in the fellas in brazil traditionally that the catholic faith in brazil. you've had a, a white preacher, educated in spain of portugal and be dropped into your small village on the fringes of the amazon or, or, you know, in a feller and rio de janeiro, ah, and bring faith to you in that very almost scholarly manner. whereas at pentecost breach, preacher has bubbled up from below with you. he's probably in the most charming guy in the village or the fellow he is mixed race like you. he looks and sounds like you. he grew up playing football with you. he knows that your mother say can goes round and visits her. he starts church a 5 in the morning because he knows everyone's gotta be at work at the factory by 7 am. he will go around to the pub and you know, tell, tell your idiot, husband, to, to get out of the pub and go home and look after his family. and that again is the, the real here. now the pentecostalism does really well and, and why it's so meaningful to pena says,

gone from 3 percent to 30 percent of brazil. the allied to her gangs are works in prisons help bolstered ira when you mentioned l g b, g q, blood rates. you're talking about social conservatism with but it goes in that america. we knew about catholic liberation, theology allied with the, with the left. her. you talk about guatemala. i mean, this is where pentecostalism was. i mean, it's allied to deaths, quartz hello to washington. hello to pat robertson, the reagan era, death squads and controls. yeah. got caught guatemala as a really interesting case that he might even be the most pentecostal nation on adding holders in the grow as well. yeah. in terms of percentages, but but it, it really came through those 30 was in latin america in the seventy's and eighty's . and in guatemala that there might have been the world's 1st pentecostal leader in a friend, rios montt, and he oversaw the bloodiest a 17 months of the civil war. that he heavily pentecostal as a nation,

as well as an earthquake natural disasters at tend to breed pentecostalism. it gets, gets people thinking about the end of days and also about the material conditions. so again, that they're here now as, as well as the ever after. ah, the yet it's been very closely associated with, with american rule in that part of the world. and, and we're seeing a pentecostal drug deal has in brazil are who are effectively militia leaders who happen to be religiously inclined. do they de facto burbridge genocide of native americans and indigenous peoples in london? word yes. say in my book i do go to latin america to add to guatemala, to investigate a murder of a traditional medicine healer. and he was murdered by the people in his village for practicing and preaching. this is natural, a medicine that's very rooted in mind, traditional beliefs, ands. and certainly what we're saying, i'm very interestingly in guatemala and some other places in the world is,

is often indigenous lead people turning on their own former beliefs once they pentico slice. and, and part of that is painted russell pentecostalism. it is very understanding of how the modern world works. so they really understand it's marketplace of ideas and a marketplace of beliefs. and there's a direct competitor in terms of traditional healing and traditional artifacts and things like that. unfortunately gets violent with ideas such as spiritual warfare. and seeing everything in terms of, of good and evil, to do my, my, my jury people going to mosques one for the morning. and the pentecostal church mean? well traditionally that that was the way it's becoming less so now and so much say that there is one a is lamb except in nigeria, that is sort of called born again, islam or charismatic islam site say that pentecostal eyes, because they were losing a lot of their flock and the yorba people around lagos and traditionally would into

marry among faith. so you might have a, a christian father, animals. the mother said they might go to, to both churches, gotta make better grandmas happier or however it is. go going to both church and mosque and, and over time they noticed that they were losing, you know, these kids on fridays and they, they were just going to church or sunday because it's giving them health and wealth and, and putting on a really good show. and, and, and giving them a lot more than, than traditional islam. so, so one particular sect is, is, is pentecost lising in its own way, although they certainly don't like, i don't like me saying that i says like the, i from will bank ever low to answer for, in terms of the, the conversion. i mean, they also preach the and times and they completely support israel. but do they civil israel and are anti brothers to new in the sense that on the day of judgment, all the jews will then be killed and only they will go to heaven and the jews will

go to hell. is that their bazaar belief in israel and it's very interesting and it's civic out, so it's a square. and so you know, a lot of historically a lot of evangelical christians where we're fairly anti semitic until 3040 years ago. and now they are distinctly filer symmetric, but their file is really up to the end times when jesus comes. yeah, no one really likes getting into that. that part of that, but certainly in times is a consideration for, for pentagon, said macy evangelicals. but pentecostals, in particular, israel is, is hugely important to them. it's also symbolizes a part of the strong political alliance that we're saying. and in many ways, i think that is the more immediate concern for supporting israel. then the longer term end of days, just going up for the prose on his parties or yes. so it's a trump all bon boss and ira brazil deterred a in philippines. they were all had very early pentecostal backing and certainly

understood that there was this wing of supporters who would be quite rusted on if they looked after them. and i know when trump said that he was moving the embassy to jerusalem, which was a big thing for bent apostles, he said, oh yeah, it's not really for me, this is, this is for, this is for the christian l. adi. thank you. that's over the show will be back on monday. 23 is to the day a good chavez was elected president of venezuela. sanction them by the usa. and you k, after chavez, arguably eradicated literacy and increase life expectancy until then even touch via social media and let us know whether you think that state failure is responsible for the rise of radical really just thinking ah ah, by mistake. then i have to say this in the criteria in germany for many years. his main company ability with public opinion. those politicians pause,

has competent react in line with what people expect from them. but public opinion is produced or shaped by mass media. those are shaped by journalists, most german journalists are sympathizes of the social democrats, of the green sand for as long as it cuz you green social democratic policy projects . you pants is a competent leader with

with ah, switzer faces a barrage of accusations that it's doing the u. s. government bidding. it's after the social media giant worked with a washington think tank in suspending. more than 3000 cons from 6 countries for a lead state back propaganda view case. royal college of midwives apologizes for new supposedly inclusive guidelines describing mothers as postnatal people. a former and h s. nourish believes an influential lobby group. as during that conversation is he yet can now for example at stan will going in with diversity offices and telling people how to reset the thing,