ah, hello, and welcome to wells fargo like her trademark jackets, and mark of political style came in one shape and size, but all callers in the rainbow measured. and at times he went down. he nonetheless managed here. germany and europe, for many upheavals, can be shocking my polish. and now waste your place for you to see without him brought me into the rad at every corner. to discuss that i am now joined by a professor emeritus of comparative government at justin technical university. professor, it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. it's a pleasure to talk with you now. this last elections in germany of produce that rather paradoxical results. and i think historically lowest showing what angle americans, christian democrats and some of the best results for her rivals. both the social democrats and big beans as far as you are concerned, is that more about the mark or fatigue or the excitement for her opponents or her

successors in this case. well, actually what we have seen is that the vote for the city you have not been vote for this party. they have been vote for angela america. and the policy angle america has conducted throughout many years was up policies. well, come for the social democrats and for the green voters, sir, for what we have seen is that many of people who formerly a voted for glenda wins. im also top candidate of christian demo. credit union now did not vote for the christian democratic copied. but for the social democratic and green original, this is what we have seen. and uh. busy sure, it has promised to continue the policy line of america and say a for he has won by a narrow margin, but he is one. and he said, you will merkel his last not you argued dad. they and

a farmer close time and power is good for a german democracy because she's been such a stable force for so long that she essentially became her party. and i was wondering if you are any concerned that the spirit of adjustment of a new government coming at such a turbulent moment in global history when even established experienced leaders struggling to deal to some many issues simultaneously. and you can sign that this particular time, it may be stabilized germany. well, i think the children is quite strong and stable. therefore, even in these times right now, the changing government will not do very much harm for gem stability. the basic issue is that the program of this new government is full with political vision, switches for transformation, hopes and so on. and it will crush down on to reality. and how's this crash will

feel for the government. and in particular, was a green partisan social democratic party. this is an open question. so my best guess would be either this new government of us 2 years or 2 legislative terms of se fascinating issue right now, because we are at the beginning of something you. but nobody knows with, as the a good intentions of the new government will work out in reality, just as reality really is as well as we can discuss those issues in detail. but before we move there, let's talk about, you know, this question of how long is too long because, i mean, for russia it, it is a very pressing issue. and i think to some extent, we are dealing with a similar dynamic as inappropriate as this comparison may seem to the jobs here in russia. we also have ass staple, fairly popular, very experienced leader who are cannot or does not want to leave power

out of the fear that if he does it, miss system might run a mock. now i understand that the german system is indeed a fall last concentrated that the russian one. but on this issue of how long is too long a. when is that the right time for strong leader to leave a voice regression? what are your thoughts? my basic argument is that it is among the responsibilities of a political leader to find successes for him, for her, and to open up political space for new lead us to emergent to process our really lead us and seen from this angle 16 years without making clear who might be my successor, is too long. the inter party discussions in the christian democratic union have been stopped for many years because the only question the party was able and willing to discuss was, are in favor of myrtle or are you against the merkel spell?

it is politics. and therefore, there was no substantial discussion for many years. this is why i would play 16 years is a bit too long. maybe we should to introduce in germany, term limits for a federal chancellor. say something like 2 legislative terms. then the next generation can grow up and then innovation can take place in the political system. johnston, you correctly done as much as you believe in democracy. you still believe that the section of the succession should be in a way managed and chaperone by a strong leader will at least in the ranks of the own party. a strong leader has a responsibility to open up ways for the next generation. because otherwise, you are in the midst of problems of who might be the next possible leader. look at the german christian democratic union. this part, the right now does not know where to go with whom to go. although during the last

year, there were 3 times elections for a new pot to leader. and this is one of the legacies off too long a chancellor ship, like a lot of fun dilemma. not maybe i'm reading this figure too much, but one of the words that most often comes up for me in describing the detailing of the political discourse in germany is outraged. and it's usually be the green war with reaction is described in this overly emotional trends. is that just a journalistic exaggeration or has be, instead of the emotional temperature of german political discourse indeed increased? yes, his temperature has increased. there's increased censor, mid twenties, for women. the picket movement came up when the a f t a feel the political space left or open by. if you see you, when those who are not rightist, joined in a unitary front against a right wing. when struggling against the writing became the central mission of

many german politicians. he is a political discussions, became quite heated. many topics became a somehow toxic. you could not raise certain questions, not promot certain arguments. and there's a says high temperature that we have in germany, and actually it is very much due to the green political style that his temperature has gone up because they have always taken very emotional, political positions. the next catastrophe of 54 years ahead. in former times it was a new nuclear war. then it was a dying out of german forest and now it is climate change and to the human race will disappear due to increased temperatures. so apparently the green party cannot live without the catastrophic, in which the green party is called to save human kind from these problems. in the book i've seen you said just before that,

perhaps because of this tendency to catastrophe. it is much easier in germany to be a popular green or a social democrat politician than a conservative or a christian democrat one. in fact, i think you know that the word conservative is now associated with something rational rate. but it's one thing to buy for power and another thing to be in power which is inherently conservative undertaking. do you think this new government will be able to keep this progressive shine? this progressiveness edge once they get down to the gradient, mundane and boring and tedious business of governance. well, this is the open question of this would be a source of much wonderful political analyzing of what is going on. there is a gap between positions and the hopes of this new government. a difference between what is written down in the coalition agreement and how reality looks like. and

usually, less part is try to move on in a visionary of a move on when they are convinced setters and needs to be a big concern formation of a society. and then the problems are within the governing left. this part is already now the social democratic change located at future terms. less problems with the youth organization of the social democratic party of the youth organization of the green party was claiming their to this coalition contract. i would not have enough of agreeing policies. this will be the attention to we will see, i'm convinced of the government seriously will try to initiate all this information say promised in the coalition contract between 2 because a german politics do not think that government should simply administer what say or should not simply conserve a piece of what is there little so should change the country for the best professor

that you know, effective governance or even preserving what your half is challenging enough when times are good. but when the government, the new government and a complicated lea, i'm to together, government has to deal with so many issues in a global pandemic at risk. alpha additional log down disruptions in line and absentees, repetitive migration prices. the possibility of the military confrontation in the middle of europe, the changing world. what on earth, what have you, you know, with looking at all this, all the, all that they have on that plate from the get go. what do you think will be that operational priorities? not the ideological and rhetorical ones, but what are some of the issues that they absolutely cannot afford to nor? well, i can't afford to ignore the precarious situation of i energy of our energy supply

to conduct, nor the collateral damages of repeated migration vase and so on. see, the biggest challenge for the new government is that those who are in the government and supported needs to have a very steep curve of learning because really looks different from how to proceed to look at our future. for a minute. on the lena bear book in her mindset exists differently. a quite different world from the verbiage really exists. i would like to be present when she, for the 1st time, has a talk with the russian for a minister over him for, for the 1st time. just to go to the, to the ministers council asi of nato. because there she will be confronted with a vote. which she does not believe to exist, and therefore a steep learning curve is required and may be the members of the government will have steeper coast than the followers in the parliament. quite to be silent on the

photos in the political parties differ or not of disappointment will come up, you are and so next week's was a government tries to learn how politics and world politics really work. now i. * think it would probably agree with me that i am calling marco. i know that you have been critical of some of your policies, but institutionally is she had a tighter reap on power. i'm not saying that she was a non profit for ability to enforce her decisions, to sell them to the public, much are greater. she was also very experienced politician looking at this new coalition to personality, political agendas that they represent on how easy or how challenging do you think it's gonna be a for them internally to agree on the issues that are on selling them to the people . this will be quite difficult because there are a lot of political projects in the collision contract for which no finances are available. this is like a setting up

a list of desires. then go into the shop and finding out that you don't have the necessary money on your bank account. so this will be the problem. as the liberals have made clear that there should be no raises in texas. c, a for they have to do with a money which comes in we are. 1 as a beginning, as many people feel of an economic crisis deal to the pandemic due to the inflation and the euro zone and so on. so they will run out of money. therefore, they will make hot will have to make hard decisions, which are the projects which are really necessary, which are projects out of alex here, a situation which now is no longer given. so this will be a kind of problems. and this will require all of capacities of political leadership or le sholtes seems to have well professors, that angle america was very strategic for access time and mission video. we need to

take a short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments station. ah . the postal service delivers a $155000000000.00 pieces of mail every year, presently 40 percent of the world. right now the us postal service is in a fight of its life. the survey that is really bad, financial shape. now facing default. the postal service is a cash cow. and there was a way to pull money out of the postal service to put in a federal budget. there was a mandate that you're bringing $100000.00, new revenue every month. the nature of privatization in the us postal service is very much hidden from public view. it's private as a, from a big

business in money. it's not about the public and given them a service that is not about quality train workers. it's about noon a we're hoping back to well, to partner pencils, professor emeritus of comparative government as justin technical university professor. but before the break, we touched on german jones, internal politics. let's talk about foreign policy on the and that america and on there for many predecessors was primary only be counselors to me. do you think it's likely to stay the case under the new government under the new chancellor and under the new foreign minister whom you already mentioned as somebody who has

a very peculiar a vision of reality and yes, very determined to see them in the real world well, during the last 2025 city. yes, the federal chancellor took more and more assumed lauren book responsibility for foreign affairs. this was usually growing during his time in office because san domestic politics important if they are become more boring if they have begin at the beginning. if they have been at the beginning of a chancellor ship and chancellors become acquainted with the top leaders around the world and therefore to feel a certain obligation to deal with them. so this certainly will happen in this new government as well. all of shows will have to do a lot of things to do in domestic politics, to make sure that his power base in this difficult situation. and an alina burbock, wants to show that she is really a competent foreign policy person. and therefore,

she needs some free space as i'm maneuvering space to show her qualities or to acquire qualities. but in the course of time, the usual pattern will come in because it due to germany delicate type of foreign policy situation. it is really a top position in government where the ultimate responsibility needs to be. now you mentioned the issue of competency and it could be interpreted in many different ways. it could be interpreted as a practical ability to get resolved even an unpleasant difficulties off, or it could be interpreted more in an american a way of standing shock ways through the, you know, media error rates. what is that? what do, what do you think is the german interpretation of what a competent foreign minister or a competent leader can achieve? well and said that i have to say that the stand, the criteria and germany for many years has been compatibility with public opinion

. those politicians pause as competent who act in line with what the people expect from them, but a public opinion is produced or shaped by it miss media. those are shaped by journalists, most german journalists are sympathizers of the social democrats on of the green. therefore, as long as it, cuz you green and social democrats policy projects, you pass as a competent leader. if you don't do so, you pass as somebody like a conservative for reactionary. somebody who is not able to do his job. and therefore, what we will certainly experience is that mess media will try to find everything. what is plausible and laudable in the political activities and statements by melina bear book. and that wouldn't be hesitant to discuss some collateral damages. and only if too much damage is done that will be criticism raised against our new foreign policy. foreign policy. busy for foreign minister,

and this is set because usually there are certain standards in particular for foreign policy. foreign policy is something so complicated security politics, global dynamics, hands on us as a brightest spirit of a country, should deal with these things. and those are do the practical politics should be able to communicate with them so far on the line up a book in her poverty, korea has not shown that this would be really a top interest. now we hope that she uses a chance her job is offering to her because she can get at rise of the best possible expert in germany. so let's see whether she has a steep or a flat learning curve. well, i think we have to, i have to admit that there is a sitting termination or with regards to angelina barbara here in boston on because people ask for change in position. but simply because many officials here in moscow believe that there is already a headache in the world, she did as a edition. now,

having said that, one of the, one of the things that i often hear from the russian officials an analyst is that german font is more than any other national politics. and he, it's constrained by a certain fixed imperative, which makes it more, alas, consistent and stable both internally and in its relations with the east and the west on the recent history seems to support that. for example, you know? yeah, for sure there. and i'm going america were very different, ideologically, when they came to power. the chancellor ship of us, your other results is in the construction of a stream one pipeline. * and the chancellor ship of america culminated in the construction of the north stream to pipeline. how much do personalities really matter when it comes to germans foreign policy and particularly german relationship with russian? i would say, i'm the lumina circumstances, the personalities do not matter so much. because as one might say,

nations have interests. and this interests are independent of the personalities who are in charge of running foreign policy. but there should be edit the, those responses blue should know about national interests. they should have a clear vision of what the national interest is and by this, if the interest are not another one. and here you can have doubts in times of crisis. in times of big changes. good, personal relationships are of utmost importance. sink back to the process of chem, reunification without a good relationships of chancellor. cool with because global jeff or with the american president or with the french president that would have been note reunification and see if or it doesn't matter with us. those people in charge are able to establish and maintain good personal relationships. and if historical system knowledge about national interests and the ability or for

socializing with others of easy going relationships come together, then we're in the best of all possible goods. but it out that now we are in the best of all possible votes i in didn't know us, it's you project, and i know that you aren't before that miracle treatment of this project as a purely economic one damn at germany's relations. and it's a european partners, do you think the new government is likely to revisit or even change the policy on this issue? well, you know, our new government is hearing a threat. we try to get rid of nuclear energy. we try to get rid of fossil energy that is off of colin's on and therefore we have a gap in our energy supply is the same time we want more digitalization which needs more energy move on. hybrid economy. busy which needs more energy,

we need the mobility which needs more electricity and see if or as the government says, frankly, we simply are dependent on guess from russia. transported the chimney of our no stream to see a for. although i think that this has been around strategic move, gymnast dependent on that germany, so to speak, trapped, and one of the interesting many is trap, but reality imposes certain limits on your imagination doesn't. well, let's agree to disagree of his point. but what, what is fascinating is to see how the german government will deal in to situation on the one hand, at least on a lena bear book, just many concerns about the strategic, where rationality of motion to other on the other hand, there is still the need of germany, office energy and say for they have some problems and as an observer,

i'm very happy to see a government acting in such are situations until the greens and bank our way of viewing or warming of german who's with that on the moon. no energy, they will have to rely on certain channel energy stores. and in addition to be their dislike of the russian gas, the new government is also unwelcoming. as you set up an nuclear energy, which puts it at the logo has with france and major force to reckon with in this belt, which wants to see nuclear energy recognized as a sustainable and green energy source, which at least at the moment the greens are not really eager to do the german greens. i mean, do you see any possibility for a compromise here? well, if you feel to be entrapped, you're looking for next it. then maybe this is the exit offered by the french president. the greens have a problem with the followers and support us. imagine the green leadership could say,

well, we still think that the atomic energy should not be used, nevertheless, due to our special relationships with roms you to the desires of our neighbors. in the interest of a stable emma to supply all throughout europe for a certain period of time, we have to accept to move on with the use of nuclear energy. so my feeling is that this might be an exit strategy out of this and that you get in which our new government will find itself due to policies which were strictly according to their own desires. now, angela miracle seemed to have prioritized european confusion about everything else . both mich markley and i have to say practically, and i had a sense that sometimes she put it even above the rain issues as painful as it may be to the german electorate. do you think in her absence that will still be german is wrong? and if not, if my internal issues will be deemed or prioritized about the union issues,

or what do you think it with me for the ears a whole? well, one of the things, one of the issues on which really consensus in germany is the important asi european union as a framework in which germany can do her a foreign policy. so this pro, you course, will certainly go on with the new government and her here until america did not do her policies for technical reasons. she really was convinced this is part of our general consensus. however, we need to see that we are in the field of declining marginal use of certain politics. because one, if you want to have a strong europe, apparently says can be something like the united states of europe. it needs to be a european union where the european nation states can preserve their own identity,

can define own interest in particular domestic politics. and he angle america, as i share the opinion with many other observers, has, has gone too far as go to for c with too much attempts. and so as having a joint migration policy in the european union model on the german ben example, as i would like to stress this has drift, has driven the united kingdom out of the you. and our insistence said only a german or german dominated vision of what a rule of law might mean, is now living, driving out poland and hungary, from the european union, or it is trading a feeling of alienation between central european states and germany. so there can be too much of europe, you can try to attempt too much and you lose your fellowship. and this is the danger in which angle america has guided our our,

of european policy. does he have behavior during the euro on prices with greece 1st insisting then giving in. and so my feeling is that the germans will have to learn until the lead us will have to learn that even so we are pro you, we do not share the idea that there should be something like a central government in brussels and a weakening of national identities. well mister pascal, do i have many more questions for you? but unfortunately our time is up. thank you very much to be with was a pleasure talking with you and thank you for what she is here again next week and well to part with . mm

hm. join me every posted on the alex simon show. i'll be speaking to guess in the world of politics, sport business, i'm show business. i'll see you then ah

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