a, you say her majesty may be the premier symbol of whiteness on the planet. barbados, of course was just became a republic why. ready obviously, barbados, but independent were 50 years old, and the idea that he still kept this queen, this is the primary way supremacy in the world, right. the british empire, those links and what that means to a place like barbados, which was britain's 1st laid colony. i read this is just not really news it should have been a long time ago. the real question is why, why do we still have the cleaners out of state a place like jamaica in my family's from of the commonwealth? i mean, this is just a bad time that this, that this money, he was removed from countries like barbados, i would say, for me and of course, prince charles the edge of a throne did acknowledge the argument, some of the arguments in this book. so where we acknowledge is a nice way to put it, i guess, but even of the prince charles was there. i mean, i think sometimes we may need is good that barbados will got rid of the queen as an estate. does that mean in barbados? is it fully in the country that can on its own economy that isn't in the close of

the west? absolutely not. this is invalid change on, but it doesn't mean necessarily that much meaningful jake, unfortunately. okay, now to how you begin this book, which will up all the jacket bins watching this program i guide suggest, do you talk about emanuel? can't a i, as an architect of racist philosophy of the he was used as a justification for colonial genocides that preceded him. and went on after and go on to say, you can say similar things about voltaire. hey, go right up to darwin, right up to canes. and his attitude about the i m f being able to be used in case a monkey house was created in former colonies. what have you go against the enlightenment? or the 11th is just white supremacy with good p r. i mean, the very idea, the notion that you, that knowledge spread out of europe in the 18th century and enlightens the rest of

the world, tells you that he is completely p r. this is not true, is completely false. and actually the, the knowledge we get from the enlightenment is one which is the knowledge of white supremacy. so someone like emmanuel can, for example, there is the intellectual philosopher for our current framework of human rights. well, it just erased it was somebody you actually invited slave owners in america have best to be african because he actually generally fundamentally believe that i was not a human being because of my blood that i couldn't pro ration entity because of my blood. and that he was better, superior could understand the world in a bit more reasonable way because he's white in that's what people were talking about when we defending the unlike and, and you mentioned there are definition of human rights. we often talk about the human rights industry on this program. you can see echoes of the racism that you've identified in the so called enlightenment in the u. n. conventional rights of the

child. yeah, cause is what one does cancel one manual can so important because at the end of his life he comes to the conclusion that a slavery bad. colonial isn't bad and creates this universal rights for him. when will he still have? and he doesn't think we're human being regular thing. we're still fully deserving of the full right. we get the right to life in a very similar ways. i would say you shouldn't poach guerrillas. i don't think guerrillas human being just on you should go to him and kill them. and that's effectively what he says is human race framer, which is the right to life. doesn't give you the right to equality, doesn't you? the right to prosperity doesn't give you the right to have all your stuff that has been stolen from you, given back to you in reparations. and so when we have a world today, which is the poorest father world being so co ops are in africa where black blue rigid father will be where the white will, if the west and everyone else in between and, and you only have the right to life and not the right to prosperity. and then this is telling you that actually frozen in time and in history, the, the, the colonial, logical and the colonial route. and that,

that universal supposedly universal right framework is key to that. because it only gives you the right to live in the right to anything you say that the enlightenment, racism had to wait for the defeat of islam in spain before conquering the united states. but also that very many parts of this enlightenment come from. i know the are on service center to china. here with this is the problem with like, a minute. it takes a, a day to the 18th century to have this conceit that europe is the best because of 200 years of violence, right? 1492 unleashes this genocide in human history, where 60 to 70000000 people are raised in the face of the earth to conquer the americas, that the entry is slavery again, massively unparalleled abuses, a few of those human rights. although he was to be human at the time and the wealth is generated from that and then creates this, this illusion that europe is superior. and so the enlightenment are actually

drawing on line, i think, as we're drawing on african knowledge, arabic knowledge, chinese knowledge, what had actually been whitewashed, like literally whitewashed. so when they take or when is when the spanish defeat the moors, they start burning books with all the arabic knowledge in and they, they but before they burn and they translate them into latin and changing the name . so it's generally possible that the alarm, i think, actually through all knowledge came from europe because that was what they were reading, right? that was what they were told. so it is, this is whole myth of whiteness of supremacy that is only possible because of those centuries of colonial violence which allows that intellectual conceit to exist. yeah, i'll get to the other myth that you try and destroy in the book in a 2nd. but as i said about the jacobin watching, i mean you quote malcolm x quite a few times in this book. do not think that in some ways, this enlightenment thinking can be used against the powers that are continuing to oppress people around the world. you don't think malcolm x che guevara karl marx

graham. she use some of these things against the very powers that you criticize in the book. is you see that people have used me because obviously declaration of like the rights of men, the un charter, malcolm. my absolute favorite uses all the documents and when he family organization, there are american unity and said that we want the west to live up to it's to was value. the problem with, in those documents we are, we're not human, not seem to be human being, which is why you can have a constitutional the united states is, is all men are created equal, and is a bunch of slave owners, right? because they don't see as being human to the following use those documents is that they are, they are limited because they within them they say they keep us fixed in the state of nature. they really do like the u. s. can you mentioned the start, the 156 years is the about abilene. but in this, i think the amendment, that's the 13th amendment that gives us the mass incarceration the 156 years later . right, that you can still keep slavery in the incarcerated system. and what do they do? they, how it goes to a lot, a lot of level so that they can keep them in

a state of labor. so actually within those constitutional documents, you still have the router ratings. i would say, throw those away. if you want to document that gives you rights and humanity and equality is the cation revolution. yeah. to only real revolution, he had the to any of the 19th century or where they did, they have a document that was declared right for rights for not just white people or people. that's a document i would say is a much more secure. i to write for him. what do you think of the fact that when you use these figures killed factor by, by the enlightenment, you somehow diminish the holocaust, which is really constant. refrain by some voices in the international community, so called and her and the did you, you talk about the curious way that a hallmark a western development. the essential ingredient may be genocide, but intent to say the twisted logic of western scholarship intent to must be seen as the vital ingredient of genocide it to the holocaust is mentally important. like

this. the hugely important turning point in terms of understanding race actually really important specifically in europe. but the way to ruin the standard just bad like is really the wrong way to understand. and i borrow here from sigma bowman, i wrote a book maternity and holocaust. where is it? the way that we typically understand, of course, is that it was his evil people. it was anti western and that is a terrible, they're the bad guys. and they did this terrible thing and we should never forget it. a major never happens again. any argument that he makes is actually completely opposite. the article was, could only have existed within west and then it literally couldn't exist anyway. how would you kill that? many people with that, the science to do it in the 1st place? and if you think about what it is, the ends of it started genocide, it is the concept of race, right? become not of human, not people. when those ideas come from those ideas come from colonialism when they come from slavery. and we talk about the genocide in the article is what we don't connected to the genocide that job the germans carried out in the media,

which is the 4 runner to this is where they get all the ideas from the idea of the racial science. the ideas of mass, mass killing, etc. so if you could actually put the holocaust in historical perspective, is it should be seen as on the same continuum as genocide in american slavery multiple genocide in africa. the idea is that the west would kill lots and lots of people is not a new thing. the only new thing about the article was it was white and it was in europe. it was a boomerang effect coming home. so it's not an aberration. the, the articles are produced by the west, by racism. and if we understand in that way that we have a much better understanding of where we are and where we are, who are we invite or there's un a human rights industry. people on the program to explain why certain cases like no maybe are not considered historically genocide. you, you mentioned the holocaust, which of course is industrialized killing in the book. you say you were taught complete to propaganda about the industrial revolution here in britain, in school. talking about it immaculate conception in british history of

entrepreneurship and industrialization of delivered that it's, i went to a story where i actually got an email from my old teacher at school. we have told a story like of where i was in a level history doing and just revolution causes of the industrial revolution. and i think he's still the same. i've been to a number of schools recently, and it is low, immaculate conception why people are great, or his science price and work ethic, etc. and as a teacher in the class, what about slavery? in this point, i didn't really know that his new slavery was at the same time, so it felt like it's probably related. and his response was it is 9, the textbook level never talk about ever again. and i was just never, never spoken back. because with one of the central is we have, and i'm from birmingham in birmingham industrial revolution. james, what they're saying here, it's a place where we have these progressive mix that were great and wonderful. but actually even just revolution is completely and utterly impossible. that the genocide in the americas and with slavery because the key commodity gold, silver,

tobacco show, got an order of what they call the atlantic city, which is america in the caribbean. order them and produce it. and if that's what is the spot, the industry, the spot for? well, spot for the growth is not just per store. liverpool, london, also manchester man just only become the major city after they connected to a canal to live who, when you pull the major slave for him. well, so when we think about discrimination, we don't think about slavery. we simply don't understand the industrial engine properly. so why is all of this cancelled as it were? i mean, your book is so culture has in this seems to be cancelled from people's education. this is about politicians. it's about universities. i mean, i work in, we think about the place where these ideas come from. it is the places which i got really working with universities is about the textbook. it is about the politicians . it is about the media, it is about the miss and the there. and these are necessary because if you actually

understand the wealth that we have today today, not in the past in bill, on the, not just the scar, a killing of people. but the current day you can, the logic has not changed, right? the conditions in africa, we couldn't even understand most of the condition, the most believe in africa. most of the world actually live in condition that we have no experience of right. one of the style effects that i came across in the book was born in somalia today as more chance of dying before their 5th birthday and the soldier ahead of dying in the vietnam war. i mean that the conditions we're talking about. so if we were to accept that we have all the 1st 30 because children died by 2nd and she would have to in the whole thing, right? so the system depends on that same colonial logic. and so we have to pretend we have to get to cancel. we have to miss out on the keep us comfortable because otherwise you'd have to change the price again. that was,

i'll stop you that more on the new age of empire after the break with one. and i make no sense, you know, born is and is blind to tease and you as a merge, we don't have authority. we don't to look back, see a whole world leads to take action and to be ready people are judge, you know. 2 come with, we can do better, we should be doing better. everyone is contributing each in their own way. but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is going to response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel

very proud that we are in it together with ah, that breaking toil forced labor stress. industrial injury. corporal punishment. owner words with which we're all

familiar with. are you certain that the world you live in abolish slavery long ago? hello, driven by trainer shaped bankers. and those with there's things we dare to ask ah, welcome back. i'm still here with professor kinda andrews,

author of the new age event by her racism, colonialism still rule the world. so again, the international monetary fund and world bank you single out as present seen as a reform doctor. joseph siegler, sir, used to run the world bank and other figures exist, even pinker others as being more of the same or, well, de facto apologise for racist enlightenment policy. how to presumably that that's what you're talking about when you're talking about developing countries because of loans in light. hm. and 2 point oh right. so yes, we are cool in the brooklyn there is, there is this idea that the west can be the solution, right. and we have this whole industry in the development industry is, is the perfect one where there is some of these changes are in nowadays. they don't necessarily talk about evolutionary letters. they used to talk about very clearly. like there's a process. countries go through and they can become like the west if you just follow these are the realities that the west can be the solution to this problem

because the west is the cause of the problem. like why is that? why does the child mortality rate so high and somali, can explain that with history and the present when crunch when organizations lead. i am a particular gay volved in conscience. all the evidence is this bed. the for country is not good for the good is there over the country, or what's happening in this is there's an intervention in the economy, but it's actually making things worse in those countries. and want to think we complain about a lot here is austerity privatization, neoliberalism. that's what we do them africa, asia, south america, the last 50 years to keep them in debt to keep them locked down to keep the keep them poor. so i can go with, i am, if well bang you, in all of these usa view cade, that they are the new mechanisms of western imperial keep black and brown people poor. so that way people can be rich, you would have supported bars. johnson's initial decision to cut got the 8 clearly, i know why is he no good, but this is which is the bind you get into, right?

because you need a because because it's so bad, you kind of need a raise, okay. and aid isn't isn't a solution to the labor is going with direct. yeah. but that aid was going on. 2 things that you criticize in the book. let me give you the or another jacobin enlightenment, a piece of where you are in the book. actually, it's not just the i m f, it is the new class, an actual on of people of color that are created in these developing countries that carry out the colonial enterprise. totally. and it's not a new thing either. one of the things we missed sometimes is to bring by, for example, the large empire that ever existed. hundreds of millions of people, slavery could help them all the terrible things that could not have existed with countless black and brand people managing and administering input. couldn't, wouldn't it be possible? always people, when you set up a system of racism or a person as well, you know, the people who have the best option,

they can for themselves and help to administer. so india and a great example at the high in the bridge by the british army in india, it was mostly indian people. so somebody lined the amorous massacre, which was just recently where the army, this women killed. like so many children, many of those soldiers, what they would see wouldn't the empire race slavery whenever possible, with those people who are black and brand collaborative. so today when we see the same thing happening and we see countries like china, china just the baby doesn't matter. the west valley se logics. when you see the corrupt leaders in africa, lead that when you see the policies of like we have enough to follow. but right now, government right now, it's not an easy enough to be surprised about how we're going to get to them. because classical things mean on this show we should be overly impressed. black and brown, people in the worst johnson cabinet will come on harris in the way this is going to be denied. i just feel to do the queen

a baby and it can be in a black dory. probably not. because if i need to has policies which are against those are i so what you tend to have, what's happening now to speak to me and in the states, you know, different is there's actually the, the real identity politics in getting black and brown, people to say and do things with people and that, but again, that's not new that's been going on for a long time. was things can go straight from all the way from our center, right through the enlightenment, to a tweet by the treasury. here you say, what's wrong with the treasury tweeting? did you know that in 8033 britain use 20000000 of its national budget to buy freedom for all or all slaves of the empire. and that in a sense, we have citizens now who are paying a recompense for the slave trade was wrong with the u. k. treasury, bank of england doing that. i mean, talk about

a guy next book of an air. the psychosis of weight is woocommerce delusions. i mean that tweet was a celebrated retweet from the attorneys. are you thinking about this gray on the taxpayer? how do a bonus slavery in it made me feel bad to not me, my nan, a lot of my family to send it on. the slaves have been paying back, slave owner compensation in our tax is that even if you were quite mad and many people felt quite quite offended by that, which brings us to the things we think of progress aren't really progress. so hillary beckles that henry beckles who are university of the west indies talked about the abolition act in 18. $33.00 as being one of the most racist species of policy this ever put forward for british parliament even though abolished labor. and that's for 2 reasons. one is that massive payment to slave slave owners, so they actually bailed out slave on. and it is often the figures that $20000000.00 pound, which is often often quoted a $17000000000.00 equivalent was actually 5 percent of g d p at the time, which would today be a $100000000000.00 man is

a huge payment. it was 40 percent of the british government's income, which is why the loan take so long to pay back regulate it was so such a huge favor. but on top of that, he wasn't just that ridiculous, maybe to the slave on. there was also a period of apprenticeship for 4 years, so slavery doesn't actually end up to $8038.00, even though it's abolish in 8th grade 3 and comes learning they for 4 years. formerly, as slaves had to work essentially a slave, the 75 percent of their time, so they could learn to be free. but he's like that and he bought a net that the amount of free labor is actually to be more than the $100000000000.00. that was given to us, let me talk talk about not progress to this apartment example we have what we think is progress actually to submit the racism colonial logic into the world and not just in the past you can, you can see the legacy is happening in terms of poverty and who has a wealth the day as well. yeah, but you make a point there that, i mean in the context of our bay doors, we've heard one single, mainstream media, the terms reparation used very,

very rarely you hear them. you're talking about terms of money that would bankrupt the united states and britain completely if they had to pay reparations to their former colonies. surely. and former countries where they took slaves through the river is no good argument against preparation to think about the country bank only . the only one, right? that's the only are the only actual good that we just don't have. the money is actually impossible to calculate in america. the, the calculations anywhere between 80000000 trillion, sorry. i mean the car be in some way, 9 trillion all and just that's just the slavery in the record 93 and india. like if you actually added up all this money is far too much back, which is why we should use reparations to understand that we actually need a new system. the economic system just, i mean even even if you could listen magine, you could pay it back for a 2nd. if the asia, africa, as an rich, as a width definitely isn't with any new truly in tomorrow,

is only because you can still results from the african continent. the nothing is only because you can say you can get switched of labor in china in india for nothing that this economy function. so even if you could possibly were and you did make you would collect this should be reminded that we need a new political and economic system and iran, reparations, that can be paid to fix that problem. what do you say, do i suppose it would be upper class africans, maybe that even if they tried to carry out the am the kind of policies that come from the ideas in this book. what happened to come in a crewman in gun or what happened to cabral and guinea? what happened to remember in congo, they all know what happened to the leaders that carry out policies that try to make africa a farrah and better place. this is where, you know, the universe where they all die, this is their kill diag for you. but this is where we need to proper universalist

framework. and the said, well, movement is that universalist ring, right? says con one country can't do that. does that have been probably fine, even haiti? i mentioned 80 before. ideas revolution get you to slavery, but he's surrounded by all these laden colonies or colonies in america, and is for that reason, one of the poorest country in the world today. in creamer one country and gone, you can do, you can only do it when you have unity across at least africa and across the the 3rd world. yes. all right, get our free with that kind of idea. that's a pretty dangerous fact. the, these are deals and what we'll need. dangerous ideas are the dangerous times. one thing i always remind people is we forget, has a condition that the conditions are a child dies every 10 seconds is emily access to food or water? most people in the world do not live in bare conditions today, and they would have lived on it years ago. it's already too late and that doesn't always say for the malcolm x book, it is already too late. we need dangerous ideas on koreans, cadbury and all these different companies or do charity. what are you talking about?

they only do general deck, but given they can only do gerry because this deal, what for the countries over is every week? every error. mm hm. so i go to go up into capital a number of times. it is the perfect example of colonialism. i mean, they listen to steel that resource out of the grant, in garner phenomena god aged to birmingham, making to establish products and make millions of, of the fad. and it gives some of that money back in philanthropy. okay. yeah, there you go. cabinets saying they do everything they can for the welfare, vera was and they have improved their environmental impact. i be very, very seriously. you talk about the book in the book that the, it is the fear of revolution or maybe an enlightenment. that is the chief motivator of elite, whether be the national health service, whether we anything, what do you mean by it is that fear a revolution that has been the motivator of every bit of progress we've ever had

anything. but why do we get the idea of social democracy and the, you know, the, the welfare state is, you is only a small part is 3 really after the 2nd or 2 and any on. but if you're coming to a genuine of communism, you got he's you got rushing but right people are rising and they have to give things over. if you read the comments manifesto, call mark a list of things he was about off of the method, right? because there's a confession to power, we can find a combination of illusion, therefore we will give you education will give you some benefits or give you housing. if interested you keep you calm. same way and you get independent from the court. when you have people take arms, they go revolutionary and say, and then so the queen come and say ok, what will leave you alone will be, will give you this appearance of freedom. so this is why i was so stuck in that. let me think about what happened there, where i always argue, or in a word position. now, we were 50 years ago. we will kind of go into these. i didn't know that there are

no revolutionary movements anymore, which is why and the liberalism is creeped increased, increasing, creeped across the world. the only way to push that back is to have the fear revolution, the fear illusion always leave the confessions. and that's why you know, condition that because we don't have no revolutionary quality. so anything we need to do. number one thing we need to do was funded mental change is to bring back that, that revolution to make it something that makes really scared. and i guarantee you that when you're starting to see the changes progress again, address. thank you. a key that's over the show will be back home wednesday 34. yes of the day of the beginning of the 1st palestinian intifada. when are these, when the of 1000 palestinians were killed by nature, a nation armed israel until then keep in touch, why social media let us know if you think revolution is the only way to stop continuing imperialism. join me every thursday on the alex simon, sure. and i'll be speaking to guess of the world politics sport business. i'm show

business. i'll see you then this update on you being on your own or not, but they did deny about being my middle. now i own my head up, my laptop that has a new natural blend. my love bob again thought, no, well, i'm going up there to be a well, i'm happy to lation birby. yeah, man. he thought, yeah. not in the that and a

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africa. the government rejects their coven test results.