through is completely false and actually the, the knowledge that we get from the enlightenment is one which is the knowledge of white supremacy. so someone like in manuel can, for example, is the intellectual philosopher for our career framework, a human right. whether just erases this with somebody, you actually invited slave owners in the americans don't have best to beat for him because he actually generally fundamentally believe that i was not a human being because of my blood that i couldn't approach rationality because of my blank. and he was better, superior, could understand the world in a bit more reasonable way because he's white and that's the people we're talking about when we're defending the life. and, and you mentioned there are definition of human rights. we often talk about the human rights industry on this program. you can see acres of the racism that you've identified in the circle of enlightenment in the un convention on rights of the child. yeah, cause is what, what does cancel on that manual can so important because at the end of life, he comes to the conclusion that

a slavery bad. colonial isn't bad and creates this universal rights for him and he still have and he doesn't think we're human being rated. i think we're still fully deserving of the full right. we get the right to life in a very similar ways. i would say you shouldn't poach guerrillas. i don't think guerrillas human being just on you should go to him and kill them. and that's effectively what he says is human rights framer, which is the right to life. doesn't you the right to equality? doesn't you the right to prosperity doesn't give you the right to have all your stuff that has been stolen from you, given back to you in reparations. and so when we have a well today, which is the poorest father, well being so called sub saharan africa, where black blue, the rigid father will be where the way to live, the west and everyone else in between. and, and you only have the right to life and not the right to prosperity. and then this is telling you that actually frozen in time and in history, the, the, the colonial logic in the colonial route. and that, that universe, or supposedly universal right framework is key to that. because it only gives you the right to live in the right to anything. you say that the enlightenment,

racism had to wait for the defeat of islam in spain before conquering the united states. but also that very many parts of this enlightenment come from. i know they are on service center to china. here was, this is the problem with a like a minute. it takes the day to the 18th century to have this this concede that europe is the best because of 200 years of violence, right? 1492 unleashes the genocide in human history. where 60 to 70000000 people are raised in the face of the, of the conquer to america's. that the entry of slavery again massively unparalleled abuses. a few of the sold both human rights, although he was he to be human at the time. and the wealth is generated from that and then creates this illusion that europe is superior. and so the enlightenment are actually drawing on 9, i think, as we're drawing on african knowledge, arabic knowledge, chinese knowledge, when it actually been whitewashed,

like literally whitewashed. so when they take, or when is when the spanish defeat the moors, they start burning books with all the arabic knowledge in and they, they but before they burn them, they translate them into latin and changing the name. so it's generally possible that the alarm, i think, actually through all knowledge came from europe because that was what they were really right. that was what they were told. so it is his home if the whiteness of supremacy that is only possible because of those centuries of colonial violence which allows that intellectual conceited. yeah, i'll get to some of the other myths that you try and destroy in the book in a 2nd. but as i said about the jacobin watching, i mean you quote malcolm x quite a few times in this book. do you not think that in some ways this enlightenment thinking can be used against the powers that are continuing to oppress people around the world? you don't think malcolm x che guevara karl marx graham. she use some of these things against the very powers that you criticize in the book. is you see that

people have used me because obviously declaration like the rights of man, the un charter malcolm. my absolute favorite uses all the documents and when he family organization, there are american unity and says that we want the west to live up to its to was value. the problem with, in those documents we are, we are not human or not seem to be human being, which is why you can have a constitutional the united states is, is all men are created equal. and it's a bunch of slave owners, right? because they don't see as being human or follow and use those documents. is that they are, they are limited because they within them they say they keep us fixed in the state of nature. they really do like the u. s. can you mentioned the start the 156 years in abilene, but in the 13th amendment, that's the 13th amendment that gives us the mass incarceration the 156 years later . right? you can still keep slavery in the incarcerated system. and what do they do? they how it goes away, a lot, a lot of level so that they can keep them in a state of labor. so actually within those constitutional documents, you still have the router ratings, and i would say,

throw those away. if you want to document that gives you rights and humanity and equality is the keisha revolution. yeah. to only real revolution the, to any of the 19th century are where they have a document was declared right full rates for it, not just white people or people. that's a document i'd say is a much more secure to write for him. what do you think of the fact that when you use these figures killed by a factor by, by the enlightenment, you somehow diminish the holocaust, which is really constant. refrain by some voices in the international community. so called and her and the did you, you talk about the curious way that a hallmark, a western development, the essential ingredient, maybe genocide, but intent to say the twisted logic of western scholarship intent to must be seen as the vital ingredient of genocide. it's a holocaust matter, the employee like this, the healing point, turning point in terms of understanding race,

actually really important specifically in europe. and the way the understanding just bad like is really the wrong way to understand. and i borrow here from sigma bowman, i wrote a book maternity and holocaust. where is it? the way that we typically understand the article is that it was his evil people. it was anti western and that is a terrible, they're the bad guys. and they did this terrible thing and we should never forget it. a major never happens again. any argument that he makes is actually completely opposite. the whole, of course, could only have existed within western within, it literally couldn't exist anyway. how would you kill that? many people that decides to do it in the 1st place. and if you think about what it is, the ends of it started. genocide is the concept of race right? to come not sub human, not people when those ideas come from those ideas, come from colonialism when they come from slavery. and we talk about the genocide in the article was but we don't connected to the genocide that job. the germans carried out in the media, which is the 4 runner to this is where they get all the ideas from the ideas of racial science, the ideas of mask, of masculine,

etc. so if you could actually put the holocaust in historical perspective, is it should be seen as on the same continuum as genocide in american slavery multiple genocide in africa. they have the idea that the west would kill lots and lots of people is not a new thing. the only new thing about the article was it was white, and it was in europe. it was a boomerang effect coming home. so it's not an aberration. the, the articles are produced by her, by the west, by right. and if we understand in that way that we have a much better understanding of where we are and where we are, who are we invite all those un, a human rights industry, people on the program to explain why certain cases like namibia are not considered historically genocide, you, you mentioned the holocaust, which of course is industrialized killing in the book. you say you were taught complete to propaganda about the industrial revolution here in britain, in school, talking about it immaculate conception in british history of entrepreneurship and industrialization of delivered that it's, i went to a story,

we actually got him over my old teacher at school. we have told a story like of where i was in a little history, do it in just a revolution causes of the industrial revolution. and i think it's still the same. i've been to a number of schools recently and it is low, immaculate conception. white people are great, or his science price and work ethic, etc. and as a teacher in the class, what about slavery? in this point, i didn't really know that his new slavery was at the same time. so it felt like it's probably related. and his response was, it is 9, the textbook level never talk about ever again. and i was just never, never spoken back because with one of the central this we have, and i'm from birmingham in birmingham industrial revolution. james, what they're saying here. it's a place where we have these progressive mix that were great and wonderful, but actually even just revolution is completely and utterly and that in a genocide in the americans and with slavery because the key commodity gold, silver, tobacco, she's got an order of what they call the atlantic 15,

which is americans in the caribbean, all of them are produced. and if that's what is the spot, the industry, the spot for? well, spot for the growth is not just per store. liverpool, london, also manchester man just only becomes a major city. they connected to a canal to live who, when you are for the major slave point, well. so when we think about industry solution, we don't think about slavery. we simply don't understand the industrial engine properly. so why is all of this cancelled as it were? i mean, your book is canceled. culture has in this seems to been cancelled from people's education. this is about politicians is about universities. i mean, i work in think about the place where these ideas come from. these places, which i already working with universities, is about the textbook. it is about it is about the media, it is about me. and these they are, these are necessary because if you actually understand that the wealth that we have

today today, not in the past in bill, on the, not just a scar, a call to people. but the current day you can, the logic has not changed, right. and the conditions in africa, we couldn't even understand most of the condition that most people live in live in africa. most of the world actually live in condition that we have no experience of right. one of the style effects that i came across in the book was a child born in somalia, today has more chance of dying before their 5th birthday than the soldiers dying in the vietnam war. i mean, that's the conditions we're talking about. so if we were to accept that we have all the 1st 30 because children died by 2nd issue would have to in the whole thing, right? so the system depends on that same colonial logic. and so we have to pretend we have to cancel, we have to miss out on the keep us comfortable cuz otherwise you'd have to change the price again address. i'll stop you there. more on the new age of empire after the break

when i was showing wrong, when i just don't know, i mean you have to figure out this thing becomes the advocate and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look so common ground, awe back breaking, toil, forced labor,

stress, industrial injury. corporal punishment. oh no. words with which we are all familiar are you certain that the world you live in abolish slavery long ago? so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be in arms. race is on very dramatic development. only personally and

getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time time to sit down and talk to shop it now you being on your own or not, but they did a mapping by a i didn't thought now. well, i'm a licensed with

a with welcome back. i'm still here with professor kinda andrew is author of the new age of empire, or racism, colonialism still rule the world. so again, the international monetary fund and world bank you single out her as present, seen as a reformed character. joseph seagraves are used to run the world bank and other figures, actually, steven pinker, others as being more of the same as well to factor apologise for racist enlightenment policy. how to presumably that that's what you're talking about when you're talking about developing countries. because the loans in light. hm. and 2 point oh right, let's say that's what i call in the book. like there is, there is this idea that the west can be the solution, right? and we have this whole industry in the development industry is the perfect one.

where there is some of these changes are in nowadays they don't necessarily talk about evolutionary letters because they used to talk about very clearly. like there's a process. countries go for and they can become like the west if you just follow these are the realities that the west can be the solution to this problem because the west is the cause of the problem. why? why is that? why does the child mortality rate so high and somali, explain that with that history and the present, right? when comes, when organizations like i make a particular gave all the countries all the evidence is this bed, the country is not good for the good? is there really good? what's happening in this is there's an intervention in the economy, but it's actually making things worse in those countries. and one of the things he's complain about a lot here is austerity privatization, neoliberalism. that's what they've been doing. and africa, asia, south america, the last 50 years to keep them in debt to keep them locked down to keep the keep them poor. so i think with i am, if well bang you, in all of these usa view cade, that they are the new mechanisms of western imperial keep black and brown people

poor. so that way people can be rich, you would have supported bars. johnson's initial decision to cut got the 8 clearly, i know i usually no good, but this is the meeting the binds you get into, right? because you need a because because it's so bad, you kind of need it. right. so kind aid isn't, isn't a solution, aid was going direct. yeah. but that aid was going on. 2 things that you've criticized in the book. let me give you the, or another jacobin enlightenment. go piece of where you are in the book. actually. it's not just the i m f, it is the new class and actual on of people of color that are created in these developing countries that carry out the colonial enterprise. totally new thing either. one of the things we missed sometimes is the light tend to bridge by, for example, the lighted empire the ever existed. i mean, they may hundreds of millions of people flavor equal only several things that could

not have existed without countless black and brown people managing and administering input couldn't, wouldn't have been possible. right? there's always people when you set up a system of racism or oppression as well, you know, the people who have the best option they can for themselves and help to administer . so india and a great example at the high end bridge by the british army in india, it was mostly indian people. so somebody lined the amorous massacre, which was actually just recently where the army, this went and killed life insurance. many of those soldiers in there was one of the empire races lately, whenever possible, those people who are black and brand collaborating. so today when we see the same thing happening and we see countries like china with china just to come baby, doesn't matter. the west valley same logics. when you see the corrupt leader in africa, lead that when you see the policies of like we have enough enough out of it right now. government right now is not an easy enough to be surprised about how we're

going to get to them because causing quite things meet on this show. we shouldn't be overly impressed. black and brown, people in the worst johnson cabinet will come on harris in the way this is going to be today. i just said please feel free to the queen and they may be permitted and it will be in a black dory. probably not because it has policies which are against what you tend to have. what's happening nowadays and in the states is no different . it is. there's actually the real identity politics in getting black and brown people to say and do things which and people and that's right. and that's that. but again, that's not new that's been going on for a long time as well. things go straight from you all the way from every center, right through the like with a tweet by the treasury. here you say, what's wrong with the treasury treating? did you know that in 1833 britain use 20000000 of its national budget to buy

freedom for all, all slaves of the empire. and that in a sense, we have citizens now who are paying recommends for the slave trade. what's wrong with the u. k. treasury by giving them doing that. i mean, talk about it, but i got mixed up with the cycles of whitening talk about delusions. i mean that tweet with a celebrate retreat from the treasury bank of england about this great textbook, how to bunny slavery. it made me feel better known to me, my man, and lots of my family to send it on the slave. i've been paying back slave owner compensation in our tax. exactly, but we feel quite mad and many people feel quite quite offended by that. we bring the to the, the things we think of progress aren't really progress. so hillary becca was the henri beckles who us university, the west indies, talked about the abolition at 953 as being one of the most racy species of policy that ever put forward for a brief bottom. even though i abolish labor. and that's for 2 reasons. one is that

massive payment to slave slave on it. so they actually failed at slave own. and it is often the thing is $20000000.00 pound, which is often often quoted is $17000000000.00 equivalent was actually 5 percent of g d p at the time, which would today be a $100000000000.00 pen is a huge payment. it was 40 percent of the british government income, which is why the loan take so long to pay back. right? so such a huge favor. but on top of that, it wasn't just that ridiculous, maybe to the slave on. there was also a period of apprenticeship before you slavery to the end of $2858.00, even though it's a bonus. and a 3 incomes learning for a 4 year for one is laid to work since the slave, the 75 percent of the time. so they could learn to be free. but it's like that. and that, that amount of free labor late to be more than a $100000000000.00. it was given to the, i mean, it talk to me, look about not progress at all. that's a perfect example of how, what we think is progress. actually just the cement the racism include neurologic into the world and not just in the past, you can,

you can see those legacies happening in terms of poverty. and you as the wealth the day as well. yeah, but do you make a point there that i mean, in the context of barbados we've heard one circle, mainstream media, the terms reparation used very, very rarely you hear them. you're talking about sums of money that would bankrupt the united states and britain completely, if they had to pay reparations to their former colonies, surely. and, and former countries where they took slaves throw in a ripple. i repre, there's no good argument against reparations. if you think about a country banker, the owner is the only one right? this the earlier, the only actual good are you with is that we just don't have the what it is actually impossible to calculate in america, the calculation anywhere between 180000000000 trillion, sorry, and in the caribbean, somewhere like 9 trillion all and then take just a that's just a slavery, india record 9 tree. and from india i get you actually added up all this money is far too much to a back, which is why you should, we should use reparations to understand that we actually need

a new system. let me economic system, i just dummy and even even if you could let or maybe you could pay it back for a 2nd. and if the asia, africa were as, as rich as the west, capitalism would end literally in tomorrow is only because you can still resort from the african continent. the nothing is only because you can say you can get swish of labor in china and india for nothing that this economy function. so even if it could possibly were and you did make the will equal with the whole economics, it would collapse. this should be reminded that we need a new political and economic system and iran, reparations, that can be paid to fix that problem. what is a, do? i suppose it would be upper class africans, maybe that even if they tried to carry out the the kind of policies that come from the ideas in this book. what happened to come in a coma in ghana? what happened to cabral and guinea? what happened to remember in congo, they all know what happened to the leaders that carry out policies that try to make

africa a farrah and better place. this is where you knew the universe where they all died . this is their kill diag for you, but this is where we need to proper universalist framework. and the 3rd world movement is that universalist language writer says, you can't, one country can't do it. does that have been probably fine. even haiti originated before ideas revolution gets you to slavery, but he's surrounded by all these latent colonies or colonies in america, and is for that reason, one of the core is, comes in the world today in creamer one country and gone. you can do, you can only do it when you have unity across at least africa and across the, the for the 3rd world. again, our free with that kind of idea. that's a pretty dangerous fact. yeah. so these are daily, but we'll need dangerous ideas or the dangerous times. one thing i always remind people is we forget how the condition bad. the conditions are. a child dies every 10 seconds is emily access to food or water? most people in the world do not live in bare conditions today,

then they would have lived on it years ago. it's already too late. i mean, that doesn't, that were safer to malcolm x book. it is already too late. we need dangerous ideas, hard to cadbury in all these different companies or do charity. what are you talking about? they only do general deck, but they can only do gerry because this deal, what for the countries over is every week? every error from birmingham. so i go to go up into capital a number of times. it is their perfect example of colonialism. i mean, they lease you to steal that resource out of the grant in garner phenomena. got it, take it to birmingham, making to establish products and make millions of the fad and, and give some of that money back in for lunch of me. well, can you go cabinet to say they do everything they can for the welfare of error was and they have improved their environmental impact? be very, very seriously. you talk about the book in the book that the is, is the fear of revolution or maybe an enlightenment. that is the chief motivator

of elite, whether be the national health service, whether we anything, what do you mean by it is that fear of revolution that has been the motivator of every bit of progress we've ever had. if you think about it, why do we get the idea of social democracy and the, you know, the, the welfare state is all you is only as low as 3 really after the 2nd world war and on. but if you're coming to a genuine of communism, the love that you got, you got rushing, right? people are rising and they have to give things over a day. if you read the comments manifesto, hallmark list of things, the ones about off of them, right? because there's a confession to power, we are terrified of companies resolution. therefore we will give you education will give you some benefits or give you housing. if interested you keep you calm. same way and you get independent in african countries. when you have people take arms, they got revolutionary and say, and then so the queen come and say ok, what will leave you alone will give will give you this appearance of freedom. so

this is why i was so stuck in that. let me think about what happened there and why i always argue, or in a word position that we were 50 years ago. we will kind of go into this idea. there's no credit. there are no revolutionary movements anymore, which is why and the liberalism is creeped increased, increasing, creeped across the world. the only way to push that back is to have the fear revolution, the fear revolution weighs the least confessions. and that's no confusion. that because we don't have no revolutionary politics. so anything we need to do the number one thing we need to do, if you want me to change it, bring back that, that revolution to make it something that may fairly skid. and i guarantee you that when you're starting to see the changes progress again, address. thank you. a key that's over the show will be back home wednesday 34. yes for the day of the beginning of the 1st palestinian intifada. when these, when the off 1000 palestinians were killed by nature, nation armed israel until then keep in touch, my social media. let us know if you think revolution is the only way to stop continuing imperialism.

ah. back breaking toil. forced labor stress. industrial injury. corporal punishment. oh no words with which we're all familiar. are you certain that the

world you live in abolish slavery long ago? oh, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? isolation or community? are you going the right way? where are you being led so well, direct. what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted. you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the

shallows. ah ah, is it on young thing? uh no, no, no, no, but they did. in a valuable mapping by high middle, now i own i eat up my lap and i had a knuckle. but my love bob didn't thought now. well, i'm up at a bit a well, i mean a relationship with sonya near atlanta in that and i

ah, this alice help headlines here. one r t vladimir putin is about to touch down in india on only his 2nd trip abroad in person. since the start of the pandemic, and it comes just a day ahead of the president's plan video chat with joe biden. with about the message from joe biden to western media, goes into overdrive with allegations of an imminent invasion of ukraine on moscow shows. it's nato does causing friction in the region with europe in the grip of a winter of discontent over soaring energy prices. a group monitoring fuel poverty warns at household heating bills in the u. k. could soon double vaccination.