and ah, ah, are headline stories this hour, the russian president on indian prime minister rough ball, top level talks in new delhi just the day before vladimir hooton's plan video conference with joe biden. the kremlin spokesman, who's in india with president putin slums, nato's aggressive stance on moscow to make group hescol speaks exclusively to r t. with now we see that native demonstrates it's extremely aggressive position we she, mr. stoughton bugs. rhetoric. we see that different, you se, there's rhetoric, we don't like that. we do everything to insure our own interests with the message from president biden. the western media goes into overdrive with

allegations of an imminent russian invasion of ukraine. ah, one minute past mid day in phoenix, 7 pm and rec, vacant tenant night right here in moscow this monday, december, this 6. welcome to then use our an rti. latimer put on the indian prime minister to render mowdy half wrapped up by lateral talks in new delhi. it's only the 2nd time the russian president has traveled abroad since the pandemic began. ortiz ilia, tranquil reports now from india's capital, understand moscow's priorities. it's position on the global chess board that this time around. it's definitely worth read. what the russian president vladimir putin was up to less than 24 hours before

a crucial video conference with joe biden, which is a mega important at this point. well, um has meeting with the render modi's wrapped up, but they definitely took their time while i eyebrows are being raised in the west over our close partnership between moscow and new delhi, moscow ones. michelle. and it's got friends in asia while the western countries, most the, the members of nato, are accusing russia of a military build up in ukraine and various kinds of attempts, ads, aggression. now, when it comes to the ways india and russia are cooperating, we can simply look at the statement, the joint statement by the leaders, which has been published on the kremlin website. it's got $99.00 paragraphs about the ways of the 2 countries cooperate. and also some of the future plans are

outlined. india has a contract to get hold of the russian anti missile defense system. some of the most advanced, the as 400 russia has been upgrading a nuclear power plant here in india. and also, during this summit in particular, it's been agreed that the production of a classic of machine guns will begin in this country. now, while the 2 leaders were talking, i was able to speak to the crumbling spokesperson dmitri, past. gov. about this special relationship and cooperation are military technical cooperation is a very important component of our bilateral relations with india. and as the president said today at the beginning of his compensation with mr. moody, these relations are quite unique in their essence because we jointly not only develop but also establish joint production of high tech military products. these

are well known missiles that we're making together, and now the production of kalashnikov as being established here. and other equipment. this is extremely important and this is an advanced format of corporation. now the russian foreign minister was here as well. the russian minister defend sir. they met their counterparts again at this speaks volumes at the level of this valued and privileged partnership as the 2 sides. my calling it at this point that we do understand though, also that under prime minister mowdy, india has been expanding ties with us. but it seems that and he doesn't want to go too far and maintain that balance because it's aligns with russia, asia and in the indo pacific is very important. geo politics expert. dr. sharon chola believes that talks between putin and moody her

a clear sign of the strength of their partnership. i think for russia it helps to show is that it is not only china. it also has india on its side. and that helps to count better. you know, any western atoms to isolate russia, india has never gone along with any american initiatives to isolate or la impose sanctions odd rule. why court russia did that in 2014, also, or after the crimea, or was it integrated to russia? but i called my administration arg, reminded that the we should know join sanctions and a wide corporation. we know what did that, and i stood by years so we would hope that medicines prevails. we are also talking to the west on the issue of our sanctions. threatened sanctions on india, because we are buying the s 400 from russia, and we have category bought them with russia. it's a special partnership beacon never abandoned them. and in an exclusive interview with her correspondent the kremlin spokesperson dmitri pess cough also spoke about

tomorrow's call. be tween the russian leader and his american counterpart he sees that talks come amid some fairly aggressive rhetoric against moscow. susan is a joke and we are preparing for the video conference to morrow. president, putin and president biden will be having a talk. this is a very complicated movement for the talks. the rhetoric coming from the u. s. and e u lee. this sounds pretty aggressive wishy plenty of fake news about russia allegedly planning an aggressive invasion. at the same time, no one talks to key if no one wants key of against even thinking of a military intervention in the da nets can lugens conflict. and given the complicated background of us russian relations, it will be a difficult talk for the leaders. now we see that nato demonstrates its extremely aggressive position. we see mr. stoughton bugs, rhetoric. we see the different, you se, there's rhetoric. first, they will say that they don't accept any red lines. second,

they say that nato will do whatever it wants furred it will do it on whatever territory it wants forth. all of this is aimed to deter russia. we don't like that . we do everything to ensure our own interests on the previous administrations when at least something constructive remained in our relations. our countries had reached an agreement to establish a secure video cool line for the highest level contact. it had been abandoned until now, although it's technical working order had been maintained. but now i think since everyone has been using the video cool format for the past 2 years, we decided to revive this line, especially since it allows us to discuss the most secret topics. see from the spokesperson mention their claims have been spreading, that russia is poised to invade ukraine moscow's rubbish. those accusation saying there are no relation to reality. rash out it. it's the americans who are acting

belligerently in the region that says media politicians ratchet all speculation about a possible war. according to some reports, european intel agencies gave that version of events, little credibility until washington step, that many allies were not convinced that serious things were happening. we were surprised about this intelligence gap. how and why the u. s. was seeing things that we were not seeing if i have to compare soundbites from before this info. and then at the nato meeting in riga, there was a big shift towards the u. s. version of things. yeah. as mentioned, the new wave of tensions come as the u. s. in russian presidents prepared to hold a video called tomorrow tuesday. but joe biden looks in no mood to negotiate. yes, oh. of course, the diplomacy is out and red lines are there to be crossed when the big bad wolf is

planning a land grab ring a bell. a similar warning came in the spring when russian troops gathered for snap training exercises. and again, when military drills were conducted in crimea, and only recently moscow was supposedly the mastermind of a qu, in key of remember the currency of no mean either because it didn't happen. in fact, none of the predictions came true, but this time apparently it's different. this time, it's the real deal, and to feed the fair, they're even drawing up the criminal battle plans the new year offensive. and for the umpteenth time this year, russia is forced to defend the presence of its own troops on its own land. russia is not a threat to any country. the deployment of russian troops on the national territory is our sovereign roy and no one's business. it is nato on its members states a recklessly moving their military forces and infrastructure to the russian borders

. so what is washes red line, us spy pained jetting towards russia's borders. passenger jets with hundreds of civilians on board, diverted because a nato re complain was to close and wouldn't respond to ground control. the actions by the u. s. air force created the threat to civilization and the fact that the catastrophe was averted over the backseat doesn't mean that the u. s. and nato can go on the risk in people's lives with impunity. the latest american war ship sailing into waters bordering russia. what issues was nature? you know, a u. s. warship has now entered the block. see, we can see it through binoculars or the crosshairs of a defense system. shoot you a better one or multiple missile systems just across the face. it was a bit more to look at where nato's military infrastructure is located, just a short distance from our borders. in romania, poland, lansing, we saw defense systems have already been deployed and they can easily be converted

into offensive missile systems that targets us. it only takes a matter of minutes to change the software. now, instinct tells me that if a russian destroy was spotted steaming and to new york harbor, it would be a flaming red line for washington. but believe it or not for us all, this is a pink line at best. the real issue is nato, or rather, nato's expansion, and expand it. it has from this humble state in 1990 to this empire in 2020. now, back in the day, russia was promised, nato would grow, not one inch eastward of berlin. wel, that's berlin. so no, it's not an inch. it's over a 1000 kilometers. and now it's knocking at rushes door. ukraine joining nato and we've been talking about it for a long time is a red line for us. the continual drawing of keys into the military orbit of the alliance, the de facto start of natives, assimilation of the military infrastructure of this country. and the desire to turn

it into a foothold for confrontation with russia could all cause severe negative consequences and destabilize the military and political situation in europe. but lucky for nato, it's got a gas out of jail free card. because in politics, well promises are made to be broken. there is that where is that written down? where is that from was written down. donald rumeliotis friends among the rich girl that you think will let you want us to acknowledge it. in the meantime, the us on phased by its terrible track record of predicting russian behavior is covering its bases and drawing up some economic functions. you know, just in case i'll throw nothing screams diplomacy more than getting your threats in a row before high stakes meeting. always talk of invasion. those go to wondering what's really going on. why not check out the use of scott ritter on our website the former us and tell officer doesn't by what various outlets are silly. read all

about it. a marquee dot com, the law. ukraine is also flushing the moscow threat normative. the defense ministers calling in the u. s. u. k. and canada to provide military support to counter this suppose at risk of a russian invasion and see is warning of a potential migrant crisis. if war does break out, we spoke to chris bambridge journalist and political analyst on why he thinks key has, is raising this. suppose the threats ukraine is becoming more, more almost hysterical demands that it be allowed to join nato. and it should be supplied with high tech weapons by america in the west. so kiev is becoming more and more cervical because it's going to the situation. it's not getting what it was, the way it's anthony. so membership, but there are growing voices in the way. you are say, why is you create not be allowed to join nato despite the fact was not, this is very clear. this is

a read why english russian will not allow it to be cross. good, simply, if ukraine was to join nato, it would be a little over a 100 miles in some ways to 300 miles from boston. something russia is going to view with accidents. i trepidations breaks the promise given to mikhail gorbachev. that nature would not, not allow any salons, any members, any of the former satellite states over the soviet union and eastern europe. and indeed, the former soviet republics are promised broken and it was made, everyone knows it was made. russia has reported its 1st cases of the new coven variant, omicron. it was detected in 2 out of 10 people who had just returned from south africa. the new mutation, which was 1st detected in southern africa, has been steadily spreading. more than 40 countries have recorded cases, the new strain is said to be more contagious than previous ones. although at present it's not linked to any debts at all. scientists are working to adapt

existing vaccines to find it. a microbiologist explain to us how the new variant works against immune systems. so i'm looking very carefully on, i know people are other people are also looking very carefully the data coming out of south africa to get a glimpse of what will happen in russia. and right now the growth of the, the spread of this wires against the background of immunity to delta does not look good. there is a very little date on that, unfortunately, so far. one piece of data when we have is that the people who got infected previously with delta are more likely to get re inspected with across compared to the people who help people who got alpha green fact. so on the crown looks somewhat different from the viewpoint of our news system up now the delta and often for this there is and so that might mean that we may need some additional

explaining to the community of what the bar sees of that is actually the same parts and maybe the vaccines we'll ultimately have to be tweaked or that from the healthcare or viewpoint vaccine based probably be a good thing. because, you know, the 40 percent of the people that we have here in russia are definitely unacceptable. we have a functional, obscene with proven efficiency bra, both within and outside russia. sputnik and the people that really should take it hey, senior finish lawmaker has spoken i to against cove it vaccine mandates. the european commission. president ursula vander lion earlier. urge you states to consider the idea and come up with a common approach. but the chair of the finish parliament's help committee believes it simply won't work. i'm generally very skeptical about coercion. i think we

can reach an adequate vaccination rate by other means. nor would we reach 100 percent by force. brussels is the latest european city to say must have protests against coven restrictions. thousands marched through the belgian capital through sunday. that's after the government ordered. mandatory co but shells for health workers starting january 1st. at one point police try to break up the rally. some protested her rocks and were met with tear gas and water kenna. ah, well i'm delighted to welcome on to the program now a panel of guests including robert goose chase,

sociologist and former journalist of the washington post on new york times lawrence young professor of molecular oncology at warwick medical school on naomi bennett, an independent nurse in the youth k, you are all very welcome robert, can we kick off with you? we just heard there that new news line a finish lawmaker seeing nationwide vaccine mandates among to coerce in and his words and stating that you can vaccinate everyone by force. what, what's your take on that? well, 1st, the word force, i think, is a little bit more concerning than coersion and have to wonder, kind of how that word got into the lexicon for this conversation. first of all, but 2nd, i think one of the problems here to try and get people to adopt this sort of mandate is to, to get over the last year and a half of governments that haven't been following their own rules and corporations that have been following the rules and making a profit off the backs of people who have to pay a lot of money sometimes to get access to the scenes. now there's an inequality,

for instance, of friends of mine in the states have to drive 2 or 3 hours even frontier in the u . k. i've had to drive 2 hours just to get the fax seen. and those are hidden costs that are coming from people that i know with disposable income. and i think we need to think a little bit more about some of these inequalities. but again, that word force i think, is a little bit scary, naomi, or live under. busy lion, who is a former doctor, argues that monetary vaccines would save lives. are you convinced it's a good enough reason to could not route? no, i definitely thought, and i think people should have the choice of what medical treatment they have. and it just seems like there's so much chaos going on at the moment. we've actually the usefulness of the various vaccination suffering and to that. so it should be we shouldn't be mandate in forcing people to have have have injection of faxing that just just not right. we were stepping on very tricky ground lawrence. we're

seeing protests, but there's a lot of people on the street who are not i don't the street who, who, who agree with the general sense that what is happening is it is a step to far europe, seen the surgeon infections despite relatively high vaccination rates. we've spoken about that before. that isn't what manufacturers and governments were promising earlier on in the pan demik, was it? no, nothing a little what we're seeing, potentially, but it is essential in eastern europe is a lack of trust that the government, i think a lot a lot of this is about bad or poor messaging throughout the pandemic. and the fundamental breakdown in the trust that the population individuals have with their governments. we know that vaccines do a fantastic job or a very safe medicine and that protecting the health care systems in these different countries. and i think we just need to be a lot better messaging about this. i worry about compelling people to be vaccinated and how that might further alienate the public. that's the thing,

robert isn't as you are stating before coerce in and and force. there is a degree of separation between those 2. talking about austria, the roberts, the 1st e u country to announce mandatory corbett shots. that happens in february. people could be fine. $600.00 euro multiple times. if that scheme fails, would deter any other country from trying it out. well, i think we have to watch this really closely to see what is effective or what's not effective, but i think it even goes down to a really basic level. i me, when i'm out and about, i'm seeing people wearing masks more and more here in my part of the u. k, but they're not socially distancing. so it does what i mean, that kind of defeats some of the purpose of wearing them out the mouth then doesn't it? i think this trust and respect issue of people have about the politics and the governance that's going on here is really center to what we're thinking about how we're, how we're responding. and certainly, you know, their rationale is maybe to wait till february. but i think sometimes it just seems

silly when people say that here in the u. k, it's always been this way during, during covered. we'll let you know next tuesday what the new rules are going to be . and quite frankly, well, that's a long time from now. why not just make the rules if you're going to do them? so i think there's some questions about how justice has been communicated, but certainly how is being implemented, naomi, whether or not we're all agree on population wide mandates. should people in your industry frontline health care workers at least be required to take vaccines? people would say you need to find some way of keeping patients safe and not as the most straightforward direct way. yeah, i do understand that, but i think that the governments in, again, not so they've already came backlash, so in 80 to and you know, way with the benefits outweigh the backlash because a lot of nurses, a health care professionals already leave it in the profession. g to and you know, the problem is in the mental health issues and now you will and make this injection

mandatory. i don't think he is saying, i don't think it's right. and i think is a lot to do with educating people and giving them the choice. can i add another aspect to the conversation lawrence vaccine producers, including the turner there warning the drugs their drugs might be less effective against, than you all may crohn very. and if that proves truth does up to simply pushes back to square one, i don't think so. i think it's likely that the current vaccines will have some impact. we're seeing some early signs. okay. so more at a total that fully vaccinated individuals in south africa can get infected with on the chrome, but they're the developing mo disease. now, we need to wait to see more data. i think many of us believe that that will be a degree of protection against severe disease. but you know, even if that protection drops a few percentage, that's a big difference in the large population of infected individuals. and therefore, we need to think, although about other mitigations alongside oxidation. robert a similar point to you and people like to see you of modernity, who, by the way,

as seen as net worth sort during the pandemic to over $9000000000.00. say that we might need to re vaccinate everyone against me. kron our people. right? to see a financial and motive, whether it's there are a lot. well, i think there's absolutely a financial motive behind a lot of this. i think some of the financial motive is that governments aren't willing to take some of the drastic and things such as locked down to restrictions . i think here in the u. k, you'll see something in january, but we won't do it if it's fine to interrupt the capitalistic christmas season that people want. so a lot of this is based upon, if you look at universities, for instance, continuing to bring in students into areas and mandating. not that staff are vaccinated for instance, but that staff teaching areas that are crowded with students who are coughing, sometimes wearing masks. sometimes not a lot of this is because we're all living on economic bubbles that are just ready to burst. and that's,

this could have been an opportunity for us to have those conversations. but are you worried where this is going to to lead it's a tire and stream, isn't it? you know, leaders making their citizens to what they're telling them. yeah, i mean, i have to be honest i, i kind of sometimes feel now 2 years into this that were being kind of led astray. not, not necessarily that the vaccines are right or wrong, but the idea that i just don't know that i have a lot of trust in the, in the government simply because we've gone through 2 years of, at least in this country. people thing, one thing doing, doing the other than that actually changing the rules and when they opened up the parks in this country, for instance, that was the end of it. we're never going to be able to get back to the point where people need to make the tough decisions and allow employees to, to work from home without penalty or social authorization. so there's, there are a lot of social inequalities and challenges that are coming through in this. and i think it's a lot of capitalism and i think it is a lot of dog politicians politicking around. sometimes. lawrence,

are you fearful where this leads? if mondrey vaccinations do become widespread, i can see that being a massive backlash to this, i think it is counter intuitive or you know, except that there's a degree of vaccine agency and i can understand it up to a point. and that's where i think the message is important, that always be all call group of individuals who won't get vaccinated. but looking at this is what happens if government demand that we want to 100 percent then i did the i think it's, i just think it's not, it's not doable it's, it's a tool rather than an actual thing that's going to happen. i just wonder what sanctions are really going to put in place. so i wonder if vaccine possible. there are other ways of doing this to try and persuade people about the about getting burnt for they did. i just wonder where the mandating vaccination is just a step to fall. naomi, i know you want to come in and that, but just a general point on well, on vaccines, past immunization campaigns. they've been successful as you know, and largely wiping out diseases. smallpox t

b. why do you see coven vaccines is fundamentally different or do? well, you know, 1st, all people were told was told to have our 1st job, which we did and now a 2nd job. and now we have been encouraged to have a booster like, where is it going to and do we have to have this coded vaccination every 3 months? so how was it going to win? and it just seems quite confusing because government se one into another thing. they tell us do this and then they change their mind for us to do that. it naturally fills out where paul some large kind of experiment and that is not what is going on. but obviously they're supposed to be putting trust in us. but we don't know where it's going to end. we just got a minute or so left. so maybe i'll wrap up with getting your thoughts on a final point, starting with lawrence, where we're just almost 2 years into this pandemic. and now there's global public about ami kron. does there come a point when people start experiencing, or is it happening?

pandemic exhaustion the simply stop listening to the warnings that keep hearing them day after day, and stop taking any of this seriously. yeah, i think you're right there is already a degree of cobra. could see we thought it was going to be behind us. but we took our off the board and we didn't realize perhaps well enough that you know where we're not going to be safe with our individual countries until the world. busy decides this is a global pandemic. and what this teaches is, i think is how important is that we support the management and vaccination in other countries across the globe in countries like south africa and the like. otherwise, we're going to be in this endless cycle of new variance popping up and spreading across the world. robert? yeah, i've been offered my 4th dose and i, i think because i'm, i'm vulnerable. i think at some point i have to ask the question of what, why, why me, why, why am i so special that i can get for a dose is really quickly. and i just have to walk down to the town center to the hospital. and there are other parts of the world that haven't even gotten the 1st

or 2nd at this point for promises from government descended across the globe. but i still think we have a lot of people being left behind and the only the final word to. yeah, i think we also need to take into account the controversial police crime sentences and cools bill and given and we're living in a place they already, this is quite wiring and now they're talking about for vaccines is very wiring. and i just ask myself, where is it gonna end? okay, a spirited conversation. thank you all for coming on and discussing about robert chase, sociology expert former journalist out they were seen post new york times as well. lawrence young, professor of molecular on college g at warrick medical school and neil me, bennett's independent nurse. thank you all very much. well, that is how the news stories are shipping up and this the 1st monday of december 2021. i mean i know neil this is our teachers. mm hm.

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