ah, dumb asher is, and so you're watching going underground. 5 years to the day since the un security council adopted resolution to 3 to 3, reaffirming a strong commitment to the sovereignty independence, territorial integrity and national unity of africa. riches began to country libya, coming up with a show 10 years after nature destruction and declarations of victory in libya after the murder of lead in one gadhafi. could his son safe be elected president? this christmas we talk to mark it out. he's information minister about securing judicial support in the oil rich country for his candidacy and his millions face humanitarian catastrophe, and displacement in the form of french west african colony of burkina, faso days of 2 countries. prime minister was fired. we investigate the country's assassinated leader, often called africa's che guevara, thomas son kara, fullest of all coming up in today's going underground. but 1st, this month on christmas eve elections will take place in libya,

formerly africa's richest per capita, a nation before destruction by nato nations. like britain and france in 2011. but now one candidate is promising to put back in the hands of the libyan people. after a decade of imperialist foreign intervention, that candidate is safe all as long gadhafi and the b as for information minister of abraham, joins we know from germany. melissa, thanks so much for coming back on. it's a big news from libya not mentioned here in the british media. obviously, britain that took part in the aerial bombardment of your country, your reaction to the overturning of a decision that there was to disqualify safe. i'll gadhafi. well, this actually confirms what i have been saying with this very program for years that the will offer their live be and people will be victorious. so then what is happening now is that the libyan tribes and cities and towns are coming together slowly but a,

a way to liberate their country from foreign intervention, especially that all western europe. and see if a slam is increasingly seen by mos libyans, as they way out of this a crisis. a slam represents the good history of libya and he is a young man and he's project for the country. is that all truth and reconciliation and peace for our libyan. so we are very excited and heavy and this is not a step forward towards authority or the throne of libya. it's a step forward towards liberating the country. we have seen 10 foreign military bases in libya, according to the united nations itself, and we have 20000 or in fighters on libyan land at this very moment. this is a country and i q patient,

and our 1st task is to liberate it. we see those and then i by the general authority back to by the un security council powers. and what about the fact that the general hafta who's also being allowed to run planning to report on election issues in the next few hours. he comes 3rd in a pull by the d one institute. i don't know what you think of them. we all know about the think tanks and the and g o z in their views that can be catalyze the destruction of your country. they've got abdomen debatable. you might have to explain who that is. save how good afternoon, the world. those who is actually for half a year. 14 percent after 7 percent, 49 percent a and $25.00 undecided. well, that's just for everyone knows that you cannot conduct any truthful and for our opinion, goes on live and leave because of

a security situation. many to be in cities and towns are under control of armed, violent militia. so these supposedly beast opinion polls are done by p r companies and conducted by western capital city the scene for the eventual victory. they hope for the agent, the libya. if you actually listen and watch libyan media outlet from all political side, you will hear a general agreement from all sides that say if it has the light is popular support in the country. if it is, is the only political candidates who speaks about for and for one goes against foreign interventions and who wants libya united, peaceful and democratic? i want to ask you who general half are is, is a former cia asset in the nation. media is often talked about as being supported by

egypt, the u. a in russia. and i understand that there are reports that he tried to stop the ruling on say, i'll get after he's ability to run by sending fighters to blockade the court in sober. not just half civil, this is a direct threat not to the libyan people, but to the ones who control the point. if you can see and the country and who are connected with foreign powers, you will notice actually that i always go back to mention in foreign intervention. because this is the equation simply in libya. you cannot talk about the issue of democracy. politic can activity piece of prosperity for libyan without actually mentioning the major cause of what is happening in our homeland, which is military and political inter, from powerful nations,

half the baby basha. and many, many other names. they have clearly ally in themselves, not with their own people at their own cities and tried, but with, with foreign powers, they pick and choose between britain. by the faith or germany or any of that country. this will only lengthen the crisis and libya as lamb is not against collaboration and understanding with the international community wants to stablish the rim and strong libya that can have and beneficial relationships with everyone in africa in europe as well. but no prospect of a deal with, with his father's old, the ally who then the as i say, will link to the ca with united side will come out and speak for himself very soon

. but my understanding from my discussions with him and other people around him that he's heart is open for any libyan wants to truly create or bring back actually a sovereign libya for libya's if. how do you even live in the nato back candidate? i mean, baby, when it was part of the libyan government, even before 2011, not in a high ranking position. he was a business man involved in development projects in the country. and we know him very well. and if he decides to work for a united stover and country as he goes back to his roots as a truly be and citizen participated in the process of development in the ninety's

and the 2000, then he is one of them. you see, we're not against individuals. we are against agenda. if you work for a liberated peaceful mccarthy, libya, then we work with you. but the problem is, isn't it? they given the interior minister and said that security threats in cyber put the christmas. the elections in doubt, i'd have to are, has a kind of veto. all used to do is send fighters and then the interior minister in the jan able just go i know elections of christmas eve. well, think about this actually is this, the only candidate was insisting that the elections should take place in 2 weeks time. every other candidate is hoping for the elections to be post phone. now everyone else, every, every kind of has security very good security. they have malicious with them. they have a is the only one who does not have malicious, supporting him. i'm 2 groups and he ends with the security situation. being very

hard for him. he insist a support the elections on the 24th of december. this is because he is so confident that the libyan people as well will be victorious while the others are scared of the peaceful. but if you can see, and they want to postpone the elections so they can make agreements with each other . they can consult their foreign masters. they can come back with new ideas to lengthen their to stay in power with the groups in the east and the west of the country. quite above from the military and catastrophe in libya, the 1000 untold thousands drowning in the mediterranean since britain bomb your country. along the channel in front as it beat any contact between the good every campaign and total. any or shell? i mean it's refugees, but it's was about oil on the mediterranean. that's why you presumably unsafe

believe britain bomb. and the stabilized libby or in the 1st place, not about humanitarian intervention at all, is no secret that libya was formed because of its a free can liberation project. and because of what he did inside libya, in terms of liberating the libyan economy, liberating libyan oil from 4 in control. in the future, we seek to bring back libya that, that is for libyans. this of course, does not mean that we seek style or ations with the west or the east. we seek to work with our our problem is the new contact rather than is we no contact here, as i understand. and we spoke to the boss of a black petroleum b and i denied that he denied it was about a is in lithia,

they have their guys and that hoping for other candidates to win over. but i assure everyone that's in the newly yeah. when islam reach is the position of the president, this new libya will be a piece for land and a member of the international community which would include economical gratian political corporation. but all based on a sovereign country, not on a satellite country belonging to the western powers of is the nato nations deny that they never wanted to control the oil. it was all about humanity. i'm going to ask you, given that your information minutes to, to mama get effie. and he was of course, brutally murdered on camera where we're going to actually be talking to someone about thomas and car or the quino fossil leader who was a voice for the global south was assassinated. for some people said linked to the

cia. this biography says that it was a good efie who said, you have to eliminate sign kara, according to libby an interpreter. things aren't going well. it's anchor, and the u. s. embassy reported it was just affected with sunk. are included on the plan killing because some car i would want to see to live in 2 months for someone who was behind the green movement and the liberation of africa. you believe that your old boss had anything to do with the killing of africa, che guevara reputedly? absolutely not. i actually even consulted with the leaders worked with my son got on file we and other african leaders from the late seventy's throughout the eighty's. we supported the revolutionary movement and working our fast so for years and years and the revolutionary leaders off working on a train in libya and typically,

and the supervision of daffy himself. from the very beginning, we realized that there were in 10 and then the conflict between the leaders of the book in a fast solution. and we tried our best to the extent that we condition our support and held on the intent on conflicts being eliminated. and the unity of that illusion, but as time passed, it clearly as well as to the tribe and stuck child 14, if i so, and different conflicting interests of the revolutionary leader that the assassination of mass i'm kind of took place, that he was very upset and that he said, well, what happened? but of course decided to continue supporting the lucian and book you know, fossil because with our sadness for the loss of santa we had to continue the

project of the african liberation. and we did that for many years to come. so this is just that, that he wasn't low and the assassination of such a great african liter is that it was abraham. thank you. thank you very much. actually, after the breaks with 3 and a half 1000000, be a need of humanitarian assistance in the west african nation of became a faster this christmas eve africa che guevara, thomas and kara had not been assassinated and who killed him. we investigate all of them all coming up and part to have going underground. ah, how can to match hazard financial survival guide looking forward to your bench madell this is what happens dimensions in britain del, at this app. if you watch kaiser report,

i have often said transparency for the powerful privacy from the bow, less bitter case about privacy, what people care about is power. petunia massage has become a symbol of the battle. the privacy information is power. that's what's going on, or a huge struggle with the governments and corporation to want to keep information secret and others who the democratic rights should be pushed forward. and people have a right to know what you are doing. watch how assange helped shift the conversation around transparency and see what that battle has done to him. i feel like children's life might be coming to an end. we are in a conflict situation with the largest, most powerful employer in such a situation. it's remarkable to survive.

ah, welcome back. in the past few days, a prime minister affiliated to an ex president of the west african mineral rich nation of became a fast so suddenly resigned. christoph debir, i worked with blaze compar, who overthrew a man known as africa's che guevara, thomas and kara. joining me now from new york is his biographer, brian peterson, who's booked on the sand. cholera, a revolutionary and cold war africa, is out. now. thank you so much, brian. for coming on just before we get to the man man himself, we were talking to the information minister of mammography. now advising safe gadhafi ahead of christmas eve selections in libya. um, he categorically denies any libyan involvement in the assassination of thomas and kara, before we get to who he is. why in your book, do you claim up lots of links to and so the statements one saying the elimination of st kara was on the market off his radar. where do you get all that from given? we've had this denial. yeah, i mean, i've, i've, you know,

read through a lot of us embassy cables and talk to revolutionary leadership. a lot of the colleagues, us, and car. so my son, cars, uncle was the listen car was actually the birkenau bay ambassador to libya during the revolution. and was, was very close to, lot of the action was going on there. and we know is it, you know, some cars relationship changed over time with you. i mean, initially cannot be tried to, you know, helps, and car resolve. certain economic problems cannot be helped us on car take power by providing weapons via gonna and you know, so the relationship was pretty solid initially, but it deteriorated rather rapidly. and, and mainly because some car didn't want to allow libya using berks bertina as a training base for a plan to warn liberia. and also some car refuse to accept the green books, a sort of a guiding source. so you know, cut out, he was taylor, and also you mentioned that i'd want to hear it. i better say this, the nation media. we don't even hear about africa except as regards charity and and

g o z. and basically they're poor. obviously they know dominion 4th, largest a gold exporter in, in africa, and i'm sure they will be campaigns, given the 2700000 have been forced to free their home study and 4400000 in need of humanitarian assistance. today, ad of ad of christmas, you're gonna have to tell us a, you know, the pandemic. mm. hm. capitalized, concerned about the i m f, restructuring plans of health services, who, who was thomas and kara. and why i suppose most relevant today to the global south as we suffolk, sharon of iris. why did he detest the idea of age from rich countries? i think that it was, you know, part of his policy to, you know, bring about a fair society, right. and so he had a vision that was very global in orientation. he saw the poverty, you know, in his country being rude and corruption that facilitated by french, neo colonialism by extension with what he called imperialism. which is to say,

the capitalist world economy. and so, you know, he was fighting in the ways in which, you know, france used economic, military power in africa to maintain control over resource and political systems. and so obviously he blames, you know, the internal leadership, you know, what he saw as being in strictly linked imperialism. and so, you know, he was obviously taking on the world capital a system, a system that you know, had ensnared african countries in indebtedness. and so he took a stand against the repayment of the went back to the colonial here. so they're paying, you know, high interest rates like 20 percent interest rates and loans and debt. and so, you know, car wasn't against honoring debt, but that was against illegal or immoral debts that have been accrued by for our leaders. so actually, you know, i mean, he argued that france owed africa money, you know, so he was calling for african countries to come together in the united front to oppose debt repayment, while the i m f, a r a because of co it relaxing some of the debt repayment,

you mention france, i don't know whether there was front french involvement in this so called african che guevara. when you're writing this book, we, you surprise the trans. yeah, i mean, you got us cables that france still wants to keep sun, kara, and kara darcy, a secret. now, i mean, i'm not surprised at all. what are they coming out? i, it's a good question. i mean, in terms of francis roll, i mean in the crew of october 15, 1970. we have to see the evidence obviously. and, and what i've seen in the u. s. embassy cables, not talking to over a 100 people, is that france is continually speaking to undermine the revolution. and what i've seen in the u. s. documents is this, the pattern of french interventions along the line to undermine the revolution, to stabilize the revolution. and eventually hoping to remove the car from power. i mean, we know that, you know, that the french government was considering military interventions from san car,

from power. just a couple months after he took our himself. and so their concerns were very broad. i mean they were concerned about what was going on. and shad libby involvement in the, in the region and chad oddison area of cooperation with americans are they weren't really not concerned about soviet expansion in the region, but they were concerned about libyan canal fi in shad. especially in west africa. and so we also have to acknowledge, you know, the neighboring countries i quoted for and molly were very concerned about the threat of the revolution. this, of the contagion of the revolution lead lake and they come out of your book as the u. s, proxies i have to fay and you, you know, it's, i might say you're suspiciously nice to the cia in the sense that they see he's capricious with good afternoon libya. gorbachev doesn't like him very much and ok, washington politicians don't, likes ankara, but he doesn't pose a threat to cia activities in africa. i mean, you know, this is an extension of your foreign policy and we know that during the reagan

administration, i mean, they just effort to roll back the so called threat of communism. and so they saw san car, you know, hanging out. fidel castro remark adolphe and they were alarm, and so of the americans and for the french, you know, the red line was really the expansion of libyan influence. and so they took, they took their, their, their hostile towards a car. there's no question about it. you didn't have major economic interest in burkina faso and they cut most the funding. the piece cor was gone, they've been expelled by some car. so, you know, i think that, you know, there's a hostility was there. i don't see evidence that the cia had a sort of a guiding hand in assassination of some car. i haven't seen evidence of that. and let me just add that that some car was very diplomatically isolated during the final period. i mean, compar, i took advantage of that and you had a large number cannot be soldiers for part of us growing into some carfax, within the military that saw a state power of the past self enrichment. he was really trying to oppose that. so he was fighting against corruption, and soldier saw a chance to make the most of being in power. yeah, i mean, clearly

a humble man given what you say about his own life and the importance of fighting corruption. hum, you do say me shall come to see of the i m f back then i met him once and the u. s . embassy, in the year of who is there, pressured him to accept new liberal policies. he refused, but at the same time he and even jerry lot rawlings just thought of as quite a good african lee. they died about a year ago in ghana. they were all, they were getting aid. i mean, the st car are getting aid from paris as opposed to the washington d. c. i m f o. well bank. right? i mean it's, it's true and it's, it's, i'm, and i appreciate you complicating the story because it is, it is very complex. i mean, a different points in history. france actually tried to work with some carney and tolerated quite a bit of revolutionary rhetoric targeting france. but you know, some car expected to be treated as an equal, as a peer head of state, you know, fully sovereign country. so, you know, he refused to accept his country, being

a vassal in this neo colonial relationship. and so some car, i mean, he knew that he couldn't break with, with france completely. i mean is seen are the revolutionary state, was still depending on foreign aid, as you suggest there, especially from france, about 3040 percent of the state budget came from france. right. so a transition to greater sovereignty to greater, you know, i'll talk to you and i was going to take time, you know, in 4 short years i just wasn't possible. and so, you know, my research shows that it was in car's reluctance to accept. and i remember green 1970 eventually led to many the economic problems, and a lot of political support within it. the scene are and so he was hemorrhaging internal allies eventually not made easy for, for compar to take our weather any watching this in became of us are thinking of starting a revolution like thing, cars, i suppose they should be informed that african joe biden soldiers are probably there right now, what do you think? um, what he thinks a kara would think of the fact that africa, us soldiers a tramping down down the country, especially in relation to the fact that he knew. and he took inspiration from cobra,

the crewman. lemme something in common with all these people, che guevara, that the, the marches as it were, of anti imperialist ideas in the global south. i mean, i mean, he was an anti imperialist. there's no question about it. i mean, he, he saw imperialism in a very more sort of complex way. i mean, you know, one of his, when in one of his major seems on appeal in imperialism is more of a cultural thing. i mean, obviously, there were troup landings. there were military interventions, those things were all a concern. i mean, didn't, he didn't see, you know, bertina faso is potentially dealing with the military invasion by the united states along the lines of granada or other places in the world, nicaragua, at the time. but i think that if you saw it was going on in burkina faso today is you're suggesting, i think he'd be deeply trouble. and i think you'd be wanting the, the country to come together to deal with insurgency in the northern parts of virginia fossa, without the help of say, france, united states would, which in many ways just me the problem a lot worse. i mean on the other side of the country, eritrea now allied with

a v o b a fighting a you will nation back t p l f in to grey. there's food security in eritrea pursuing an independent path with all the caveats that he sent, kara did take 8, he took usaid relief, gimme the 8 things that are not associated with great revolutionary and deva off to rule. um, do you believe that it is legacy really lives on in the fact that he wanted more participation from women in african societies all across the continent and his obsession with environmental politics, which arguably would fit in with good effie and the importance of green politics? yeah, i mean, i think those are really, really good points. i mean, i think that, you know, some car had a certain kind of vision of society, almost of utopian vision. you know, $11.00 in which you know, women to be equal to man. and which, you know, the citizens would be good custodians of their natural environment as you're

suggesting. he was in the kitchen. yeah, i mean, i think there was a lot of pushback against that. i mean, you had this had a state who was preaching feminist discourse and lobbying and pushing for women's liberation. but you had a kind of a patriarchy from below that was, was responding to that. so it, it actually was a huge liability for him. and he didn't have a very strong male constituency behind, and that was backing as feminist policies. but certainly that was one of the main pillars of the revolution was, was liberating women. and he went away, i don't align with this. and, you know, i think that, you know, it's one of the reasons why he's so pocket today and, and why he has a certain kind of legacy in a rather pressure one that you're mentioning there, respect to environmentalism, feminism taking on the challenging debt repayment. those sorts of things, i mean there's a certain saliency there that you see absent and other political figures from that era. i mean, obviously the situation that this christmas looks to be terrifying. i suppose, a thought experiment. he was always supporting the anti apartheid struggle in south

africa, supporting nelson mandela when he was in jail. if mandela had been released before his assassination during south african troops could have supported him and the story might have been different and millions of people wouldn't be starving. this chris was in beginning it's difficult to say, i mean, you know, when, when, when police compared to power, he didn't depend on any foreign troops. right? i mean, at the time, you know, because of the franco burke and i'll be defense agreements, he only had like 25 french troops who are there, there are, there is trainers or the national on the remaining butch law. so you didn't have troops intervening. and he offered, as he didn't have a library interest, it was mainly to pull them, but the military muscle of a computer that enabled him to take power. i do think, however, if you did have troops, you know, being enter on the other side of things that could have kept the balance on car sierra. arguably, if he decided to play by the neo liberal rule of the game that the united states and france were trying to foist on san car. he probably still be in power to the

day or and if he was corrupt and issues crump good point. yes, dr. beasen, thank you. thank you so much. that's over the show will be back on wednesday when we investigate political violence. and colonial rule was one of the greatest living public intellectuals, mahmoud, ma'am dani, until then human touch, my social media, and tell us who you think murdered thomas and cora. what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy, even foundation, let it be an arms race is on offense. very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time time to sit down and talk with

up to a 100, a fear dead off. the tornadoes read through several american states and above the disaster on the lines. the countries deep rift with some politicians already trying to score points from the tragedy. ah, flashes of an anti cope restriction protested germany leave over a dozen offices injured. as more measures rolled out, we look at how the homeless in berlin are effected. this is not about a legitimate prosecution, but it is about a political persecution. the un special rapids her on torture lashes out to the british court ruling to allow julian sanchez extradition to the united states and races. further concerns over the wiki leaks found his health. his fiance reveals he

suffered a stroke in prison in october.