received elections will take place in libya, formerly africa's richest capitan nation to for destruction by nato nations like britain and france in 2011. but now one candidate is promising to what back in the hands of the libyan people, after a decade of imperialist for an intervention that candidate is safe. all this i'm gadhafi and the b as for information minister was abraham joins, we know from germany. i missed a thanks so much for coming back on. it's a big news from libya not mentioned here in the british media. obviously, britain that took part in the aerial bombardment of your country, your reaction to the overturning of a decision that there was to disqualify safe. i'll get, i think. well, this actually confirms what i have been saying with this buddy program for years that the willoughby and people will be victorious. so then what is happening now is that the libyan tribes and cities and towns are coming together slowly,

but a fast way to liberate their country from foreign intervention, especially that of western europe. and see if a slam is increasingly seen by mos libyans, as they way out of this. a crisis in islam represents the good history of libya. and he is a young man, and he's project for the country. is that all truth and reconciliation and peace? or on libyan so we are very excited and heavy and this is not a step forward towards authority or the throne of libya. it's a step forward towards liberating the country. we have sheen 10 foreign military bases and libya according to the united nations itself. and we have 20000 or in fighters on libya at this very moment. this is

a country accumulation, and our 1st task is to liberate it. obviously, that's a denied by the general authority backed by the un security council powers. what about the fact that the general after who's also been allowed to run planning to report on election issues in the next few hours? he comes 3rd in a pull by the d one institute. i don't know what you think of them. we all know about the think tanks and the and g o is in their views that arguably catalyze the destruction of your country. they've got a debatable you might have to explain who that is safe. i'll get after you. the world news is actually for half a year, 14 percent after 7 percent, 49 percent, the baby and $25.00 undecided. well, that's just for everyone knows that you cannot conduct any

truthful and opinion on. i live in libya because of a security situation. many to be in cities and towns are under the control of violent malicious. so these are supposedly a beast opinion polls are done by p. r companies and conducted by western capitals who sit the scene for the eventual victory they hope for the agents and libya. if you actually listen and watch libyan media outlets from all political side, you will hear a general agreement from all sides. that islam can, that he has a wide, popular support in the country in islam is the only political candidate who speaks about for an end for once, who's against for an intervention, and who wants to be at united, peaceful and democratic. i want to ask who,

who general have to are is, is a former c i a asset in nature. nation media is often talked about as being supported by egypt, the u. a in russia. and i understand that there are reports that he tried to stop the ruling on say, paul, get api is ability to run by sending fighters to blockade the court in cyber, not just half car. syphilis is a direct threat not to the libyan people, but to the ones who control the point. if you can see and the country and who are connected with foreign powers, you will notice actually, and that i always go back to mention in for an intervention, because this is the equation simply in libya. you cannot talk about the issue of democracy. all police can activity all piece of prosperity for libyan without actually mentioning the major cause of what is happening in our homeland, which is military and political intervention from powerful nation. have the

baby basha and many, many other name. they have clearly ally in themselves, not with their own people at their own cities and tried love with. with foreign powers, they pick and choose between britain, france by the faith or germany, or any other country. this will only lengthen the crisis, and libya safely slam is not against collaboration. and understanding with the international community wants to establish a rim and strong libya that can have been official relationships with everyone in africa, in europe as well, but no prospect of a deal with, with his father's old, the ally. and they say it was linked to the cia with united sides. no,

i'm will come out and speak for himself very soon. but my understanding from my discussions with him and other people around him is that he's hockey is open for any libyan ones to truly create or bring back actually a sofa and libya for olivia. if have either even the, even the nature back candidate, i will, i mean they were when it was part of the libyan government, even before 2011. not in a high ranking position. and he was a business man involved in some developmental projects in the country. and we know him very well. and if he decides to work for a united sovereign country and he goes back to his roots as a truly being citizen, back to patients in the libyan process of development in the ninety's and the 2000

. then he is welcome. you see, we are not against individuals. we are against agenda. if you work for a liberated peaceful mechanic, libya, then we work with you. but the problem is, isn't it given the interior minister and said that security threats in cyber put the christmas, the elections in doubt i have to are, has a kind of veto. only used to do is send fighters and then the interior minister in the jan a we'll just go i know elections of christmas eve. well, think about this, actually. it's the only candidate who is insisting that the elections should take place in 2 weeks time. every other candidate is hoping for the elections to be postponed. now everyone else, every, every kind of has security very good security. they have malicious with them. they have armed groups. different islam is the only one who does not have malicious.

supporting him, i'm 2 groups. i'm yes, with the security situation. being very hard for him. he insist a support the elections on the 24th of december. this is because he is so confident that the libyan people as well will be victorious while the others are scared of the peaceful. but if you can seen and they want to respond the elections so they can make agreements with each other. they can consult their foreign masters . they can come back with new ideas to lengthen their to stay in power with the groups in the east and the west of the country. quite apart from the military and catastrophe in libya, the thousands and thousands drowning in the mediterranean since britain bombed your country along the channel. it named in front as it beat any contact between the godaddy campaign and the total. any or shell?

i mean, it's refugees, but it's also about oil on the mediterranean. that's why you presumably unsafe, believe britain bond. the stabilized libby or in the 1st place, not about humanitarian intervention at all, is no secret that libya was formed because of its a free can liberation project. and because of what he did inside libya, in terms of liberating to live in economy liberating the from for in control in the future, we seek to bring back libya that is for libyans. this of course, does not mean that we seek her style relations with the west or the east. we seek to work with our problem is we need to contact rather than is we no contact here, as i understand and we spoke to the boss. now the black petroleum be blue, i denied that he denied it was about a is in lithia,

they have their guys and i'm hoping for either candidates to win over. but i assure everyone that they're in the newly when islam reaches the position of the president, for this new libya will be a peaceful land. and a member of the international community which would include economical gratian, political corporation. but all based on a sovereign country, not on a satellite country belonging to the western powers. obviously, nato nations deny that they have ever wanted to control the oil. it was all about humanity. i'm going to ask you, given that you are information minutes to, to mama get effie and he was of course, brutally murdered on camera. we're, we're, we're going to actually be talking to someone about thomas and car, or the key to fossil leader who was

a voice for the global south was assassinated. for some people said linked to the cia. this biography says that it was a good efie who said, you have to eliminate sign kara, according to libby an interpreter. things are going well with her, and the u. s. embassy reported it was just affected with sunk. are included on the plan killing because some car would want to see to live in demands for someone who was behind the green movement on the liberation of africa. you believe that your old boss had anything to do with the killing of africa, che guevara reputedly? absolutely not, i actually even consulted with the leaders worked with my son got on file we and other african leaders from the late seventy's out of the eighty's. we supported the revolutionary movement and working fast so 4 years and years. and the revolutionary leaders of working as

a trained in libya and typically under the supervision of daffy himself. from the very beginning, we realized that there were in 10 and a conflict between the leaders of the board. i solution and we tried our best to the extent that we condition our support and held on a complex being eliminated and the unity of illusion. but as time passed, it clearly as well as to the tribe and stuck shall, 14, if i so, and different conflicting interests of the revolutionary leader that the assassination of mass i'm kind of took place that he was very upset and that he said, well, what happened but of course, decided to continue supporting the revolution in booking fossil because with our sadness for the loss of santa we had to continue the project of the

african liberation. and we did that for many years to come. so this is just that, that he wasn't low and the assassination of such a great african me is that it was abraham. thank you. thank you very much. actually, after the break with 3 and a half 1000000, be a need of humanitarian assistance in the west. african nations became a faster this christmas eve, africa che guevara, thomas and cora had not been assassinated and who killed him? we investigate all the more can we have a part to have going underground ah mac address, financial survival guide. when customers go buy, you reduce the price. now well, reduce the lower with that. what's good for food market back to the global

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with shell. mm. welcome back. in the past few days, a prime minister affiliated to an ex president of the west african mineral rich nation between a fast so suddenly resigned krista, off the beer worked with blaze compar who overthrew a man known as africa che guevara, thomas and kara, joining me now from new york is his biographer, brian peterson, who's booked on the san cholera. a revolutionary and cold war africa is out now. thank you so much, brian. for coming on just before we get to the man man himself, we were talking to the information minister of mammography. now advising, save gadhafi ahead of christmas eve elections in libya. m. e. category me denies. any libyan involvement in the assassination of thomas and kara, before we get to who he is. why in your book do you claim lots of links to her? so the statements,

one saying the elimination of st. kara was on the market of his raider. where do you get all that from given? we've had this denial. yeah, i mean, i've, i've, you know, read through a lot of u. s embassy cables and talked to revolutionary leadership. a lot of the colleagues from a st. kara from us. the car's uncle was the listen car was actually broken. ave ambassador to olivia during the revolution and was, was very close to lot of the action was going on there. and we know is it, you know, some cars relationship changed over time with kathy. i mean, initially cannot be tried to, you know, helps and car resolve. certain economic problems cannot be helped us and car take power by providing weapons via ghana. and you know, so the relationship was pretty solid initially, but it did period rather rapidly. and, and, and mainly because some hard didn't want to allow libya using bricks or keen as a training base for a plan to warn liberia. and also some car refused to accept the green book to sort of a guiding source. so, you know, cut out, he was taylor and also you mention that one here. you know, i, i better say this,

the nature nation media. we don't even hear about africa except as regards charity and, and cios and basically they're poor. we see the loads of minerals, 4th largest, a gold exported in in africa, and i'm sure they will be campaigns, given the 2700000 have been forced to free their home study and 4400000 in need of humanitarian assistance today. and of ahead of christmas, you're gonna have to tell us a, you know, the pandemic m as a catalyzed concerned about i m f, restructuring plans of a health services who, who was thomas and kara. and why i suppose most relevant today to the global south as we suffer corona virus. why did he detest the idea of age from rich countries? i think that it was, you know, part of his policy to, you know, bring about a fair society. right. and so he had a vision that was very global and orientation. he saw the poverty, you know,

in his country being rude and corruption of facilitated by french neo colonialism by extension. what, what he called imperialism which to say, the capitalist economy. and so he was fighting in the ways in which, you know, france, you economic, military power in africa to maintain control over resource and political systems. and so obviously he blames, you know, the internal leadership, you know, what he saw corruption being in strictly linked imperialism. and so, you know, he was obviously taking on the world capitalist system, a system that, you know, had ensnared african countries in indebtedness. and so he took a stand against the repayment of the desk, went back to the colonial period. and so they're paying, you know, high interest rates like 20 percent interest rates on loans and debt. and so, you know, car wasn't against honoring debt, but who's against illegal or immoral debts that have been accrued by for our leaders? so actually, you know, i mean, he argue, to france, africa, money, you know, so he was calling for african countries to come together in the united front to

oppose debt repayment, while the i, m f, f, a r, a because of cove it relaxing, some of the debt repayment, you mentioned france, i don't know whether there was front trends involvement in this so called african che guevara. when you are writing this book, will you surprise the trance? you haven't got us cables that france still wants to keeps on kara. and kara dossier secret. now, i mean, i'm not surprised at all. what are they coming out? i it's a good question. i mean in terms of francis roll, i mean in the crew of october 15, 1970. we have to see the evidence obviously. and what i've seen in the u. s. embassy cables, and often talking to over 100 people, is that, you know, france was continually speaking to undermine the revolution. and what i see in the u. s. documents is this, this pattern of french interventions along the line to undermine the revolution, tv stabilized revolution, and eventually hoping to remove the car from power. i mean, we know that, you know,

that the french government was considering military interventions from san car, from power just a couple months after he took our himself and so their concerns were very broad. i mean, they were concerned about what was going on in shan libby involvement in the, in the region in chad, addis an area of cooperation with the americans. they weren't really not concerned about soviet expansion in the region, but they were concerned about libby and canadian in chad, especially in west africa. and so we also have to acknowledge, you know, the neighboring countries. i called the foreign molly were very concerned about the threat of the revolution. this, of the contagion of the revolution lead thinking. they come out of your book as us proxies. i have to say and you, you know, it's, i might say you're suspiciously nice to the cia in the sense that they see he's capricious with good afternoon libya. gorbachev doesn't like him very much and ok, washington politicians don't like sign kara, but he doesn't pose a threat to cia activities in africa. is an

extension of us foreign policy. and we know that during the reagan administration, i mean there's this effort to roll back the so called threat of communism. and so they saw on car, you know, hanging out. fidel castro, mark adoptee, and they were alarm. and so many americans and for the french, you know, the red line was really the expansion of libyan influence. and so they took, they took their, their hostile towards on car. there's no question about us. didn't have major economic interest and became fossil. and the cotton, most the funding, the peace corps was gone. they've been expelled by, by phone car. so, you know, i think that, you know, there's the hostility was there. i don't see evidence of the cia had a sort of a guiding hand in assess the nation of san car. i haven't seen evidence of that. and let me just add that. that phone car was very diplomatically isolated during the final period. i mean, compar, i took advantage of that and you had a large number of the soldiers were part of this growing and he's on, carfax was in the military that saw him a state power, the past self enrichment. he was really trying to oppose that. so he was fighting

against corruption and soldiers saw a chance to make the most of being in power. yeah, i mean, clearly a humble man given what you say about his own life and the importance of fighting corruption. you do say michel, camden, who of the i m f. back then actually i met him once and the us in the or who is there pressured him to accept new liberal policies. he refused, but at the same time he and even jerry low rollings, his thought was quite a good african leader. he died about a year ago in ghana. they were all they were getting aid. i mean the same car getting aid from paris as opposed to the washington d. c. f. o. well bank. right? i mean it's, it's true and it's, it's, and i appreciate you complicating the story because it is, it is very complex. so many different points in history, france actually tried to work with some current, even tolerated quite a bit of revolutionary rhetoric targeting france. but you know,

some car expected to be treated as an equal, as a peer head of state, you know, a fully sovereign country. so, you know, he refused to accept his country, being a vassal in this neo colonial relationship. and so some car, i mean, he knew that he couldn't break with, with france completely. i mean is seen are the revolutionary state, was still depending on foreign aid, as you suggest there, especially from france, about 3040 percent of the state budget came from france. right. so a transition to a greater sovereignty to greater, you know, i'll talk you and i was going to take time, you know, in, for sure years i just wasn't possible. and so, you know, my research shows that it was in cars reluctance to accept. and i remember 31970 eventually led to many of the economic problems and a lot of political support within it, the c r. and so he was hemorrhaging internal allies eventually that made easy for compar to take our weather very watching. this became of, as we're thinking of starting a revolution, legs and cars. i suppose they should be informed that african joe biden soldiers are probably there right now. what do you think um, what he thinks a cora would think of the fact that africa, us soldiers

a tramping down down the country, especially in relation to the fact that he knew. and he took inspiration from cobra, the crewman. lemme something in common with all these people, che guevara, that the, the marsh is, as it were, of anti imperialist ideas in the global south. i mean, i mean, he was an anti imperialist. there's no question about it. i mean, he, he saw imperialism, and in a very more sort of complex way. i mean, you know, one of his, one in one of his major seems on appeal in imperialism is more of a cultural thing. i mean, obviously there were true landings. there were military interventions, those things were all a concern. i mean, didn't, he didn't see, you know, bertina faso is potentially dealing with a military invasion by united states along the lines of granada or other place in the world, nicaragua, at the time. but i think that if you saw it was going on in between a foster today as you're suggesting, i think he'd be deeply trouble. and i think you'd be wanting the country to come together to deal with insurgency in the northern parts of virginia fossa. without the help of say, france,

united states with which in many ways that just made the problem a lot worse. i mean, on the other side of the country, eritrea now allied with the v o, b, a fighting a valuable nation back t p l f. in to gray, there's food security in eritrea pursuing an independent path. with all the caveats that he thank ira did take 8, he took usaid relief, gimme the 8 things that are not associated with great revolutionary. and ever, after all, do you believe that it is legacy really lives on the fact that he wanted more participation from women in african societies all across the continent. and his obsession with environmental politics, which arguably would fit in with good effie. and the importance of green politics. yeah, i mean, i think those are really, really good points. i mean, i think that, you know, some car had a certain kind of vision of society,

almost of utopian vision. you know, $11.00 which, you know, women to be equal to men in which, you know, the citizens would be good custodians of their natural environment as you're suggesting. he went a little in the kitchen. yeah, i mean, i think there was a lot of pushback against that. i mean, you had this head of state who is preaching from this discourse and lobbying and pushing for women's liberation. but you had a kind of, a patriarchy from below. that was, was responding to that, so it, it actually was a huge liability for him. and he didn't have a very strong male constituency behind. and that was backing as feminist policies. but certainly that was one of the main pillars of the revolution was, was liberating. women and he went away, i don't know him with this. and, you know, i think that, you know, it's one of the reasons why he's so pocket today and, and why he has a certain kind of legacy and a rather pressure one that you're mentioning, their respect to environmentalism, feminism taking on the challenging debt repayment. those sorts of things, i mean there's a certain saliency there that you see absent and other political figures from that era. i mean, obviously the situation that this christmas looks at to be terrifying. i suppose,

a thought experiment. he was always supporting the anti apartheid struggle in south africa and supporting nelson mandela when he was in jail. if mandela had been released before his assassination during south african troops could have supported him. and the story might have been different and millions of people wouldn't be starving this christmas in beginning versa. it's difficult to say, i mean, you know, when, when, when police compared to power, he didn't depend on any foreign troops. right? i mean, at the time, you know, because of the franco burke and i'll be defense agreements, he only had like 25 french troops. who are there, there are, there is trainers or the national on the remaining butch law. so, you didn't have troops intervening, anything offered, you didn't have a library interest, it was mainly to pull them, but the military muscle of a computer that enabled him to take power. i do think, however, if you did have troops, you know, being enter on the other side of things that could have kept the balance on car.

sir. arguably, if you decided to play by the neo liberal rule of the game that the united states and france were trying to foist on san car. he probably still be in power to the day or and if he was corrupt and issues, crump good point. yes. web pages and thank you. thank you so much. that's over the show will be back on wednesday when we investigate political violence. and colonial rule was one of the greatest living public intellectuals, mahmoud, ma'am dani until then. even touch my social media and tell us who you think murdered thomas and kyra ah, now it shows seemed wrong when i was just a shape out disdain because of the african and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart,

we choose to look so common ground. ah. a

said i pressure man saw britton's prime minister the quit over his party christmas gatherings last year when strict covey rules bad and such events for everybody else . up to a 100 to fit dead after tornadoes rip across american states. but the disaster also underlines the countries deep political divide with some politicians already trying to score points from the tragedy. and trying to think about the dystopian literary classic. 1984 is getting a sequel of sorts. this time from a feminist perspective, we discussed whether it's a timely update or a glimpse of the rewriting and revising which george orwell. but we want to pass. i don't see any reason why anybody shouldn't be subject to revisiting well in the smart world at the moment.