common ground ah ah ah, ah, ah, ah, ah hello and welcome to crossed out were all things are considered. i'm funeral about the west relations with russia or record lows, and there is no reason to believe this will change any time soon, however, is a grand bar impossible as some have suggested also as a fate of julian, a sorry, been sealed? ah. to

discuss these issues and more, i'm joined my, my guest here in moscow. maxine switch golf, he is the director of the center for advanced american studies and moscow state institute of international relations. and we also have dmitri bob and she is a political analyst editor and interest me internet media project. gentleman cross ambrose and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. that's going to maxime 1st. we have the afterglow of the virtual summit, the biden, and putin had it seems to me to been rather a dud. i mean, when you look at the read out from moscow in the, in the read out from washington, not a whole lot was said, but not a whole lot was agreed to. what do you, what are your, what's your takeaway major? take away from the virtual summit, maxime, go ahead with the, to had a very top conversation. ukraine remains to be a major stumbling block between us and russia. and perhaps we'll, we'll,

we'll continue to be the stumbling block for some time. i think the major problem between moscow and washington at this point is that the nature of the relationship has changed fundamentally since the cold war. and they, the, it used to the balls around this, you know, arms control issue. and now, even though the arms control issue is still important, there, things like, you know, the world order where russia is not appreciated as a pure competitor to the united states and all the focuses on china. but russia is fierce as a major spoiler. even though i think if united states, you know, had to seriously considered its interest and security worldwide, they honestly wouldn't be a greater partner than russia, whether it comes to gutter, terrorism, or european security, or even for a pretty, you know, cynic, selfish reason says containing china i don't see the policy of pushing russia

towards china by all distinctions and isolation and all kinds of stuff is really in us interests. but i'm very skeptical that things will get any better anytime soon. i mean, you're always the voice of realism on this program and we really, really appreciate it because i couldn't agree with you more. so what, what is getting in the way is an idea logical, is it an ideological position? they can, we can't get over or washington and it's all, i can't get over because it seems to me, it doesn't seem to me. ukraine is not part of nato. russia has made it very, very clear that it's a red line. after being promised, as a cold war was going to end, the nature wouldn't expand at all. it's expanded 700 miles to russia's doorstep. so id, ology is the, is the bone of contention. am i wrong? well, i think it's, there is a mature of, of a bunch of factors here. on one hand, it is always your was i id all the really because i think we can see

a bunch of examples where seen people who are looking for ideological things are pretty fine with dealing in a pragmatic sense with other states that are not put in my live democratic, so i think ology is a cover up for a greater geo politics and stuff. but again, like i said, i don't really see that pretty realistic geopolitical calculations kick in, even if only for one thing that you know, somebody wants to keep pressure busy at its western front and not getting dish with china dust. you know, fueling this, your brain crisis, maybe in the interest, but honestly, i don't think it's in long term interest of the united states. what's been going on there if you and i've talked about what it would take to reorient and rushes relationship with the west and vice versa here. but the, the problem and the reason why i follow up with my question with maxine about ideology is the, is at this point in time,

we look at the obama ministration for the trump administration. now the binding ministration box themselves into a corner. because if you make a deal now it's called the peas man did munich it, they did, they have done this, they've done this rhetorically and ideologically, it's really them. and then the a p, if it was an intentional league, because i was always an anonymous source. you know, that by news basically quietly said to ukraine, because it was a call after the virtual summer saying, saying that, you know, you know, cool your heels, you're not going to get in for 10 years. i mean, it seems to me that they're the ones that are in the quandary here. russia made it very clear. it's position ok and, and they in washington doesn't know how to respond, particularly nato. go ahead. i just don't see any magic really isn't behind the mr. why don't sections and the actual, the west in general. i mean, these are going for you, more christians, which they conveniently renamed. no salmon in support of the more precious or

something it really every month is that the mighty result wouldn't be worse. i mean, the united states in a big china, i'm only china, also its allies, basically turkey. i'm hungry and why the, these are important. so i think the reasoning behind this is wonderful because i don't see how do and i did stage or they were being union, i want to gain anything by, for example, preaching any activity around. no, it's been 2 weeks and i had energy crisis. sonia, if they registered that i know the prices will go down in mental oh us, you know, maybe days and then doing it. doing the open it. you know that the major theme in the govern press during the last week was we can only pressure him by saying that

we are going to make notes to him to a project. this is nothing to do with. it has nothing to do with brett pregnant. if you give me your d, christina key and what's going on is that, you know, these people are trying to forget, she's pretty, i was, i was just puzzled by this article by cartridge lawyer in the washington boston. so that being peace, you know, she is a german english historian and she basically attacked. i'll give america for 4 leg is this most into being finished and i've been talking and i'm going to call it because this is on the music guy just sense of can you deal all with germany? is military isn't arguing, america has a date to pass that through the standards just to get and she did a job upfront. well, i mean, this is, this is,

i'm class. is that the idea that i'm, you should have no memory or it's military isn't. this is something new and you know, what is very alarming is that new tree is actually answering the drum and what it takes from the back door. if not to sat with your period, because well, blue and the people who are taking on burns. now it's much more sophisticated, we are more democratic, that red green are those that were more echo. would you mind if that makes us you period? and that allows us, for example, the green somehow and we can send you an honest pre. and then the whole history around rush is going to bring tomorrow. we should make it clear and he's going to pay a price. you know, there was this, it was like an option. what can we do? you want to know if that's your brain, you know, very close to

a switch or rush from the suite connection. it was a craziness that junior for the whole week. yes, i mean maxime, be the oddity of, you know, bringing north stream to back into this. the only reason they have the one stream $1.00 and $2.00 is because ukraine ended up being an unreliable energy partner as a transit country. that's the reason why i came in had nothing to do with ideology or anything else. it was brass tax and it was north trim to we have to remind our audience. it was the germans that asked for, and it wasn't the russians to propose that it was the germans here. maxine nato is in a quandary right here because i have always argued on this program that if nature doesn't continue to expand, it will have no reason to exist. and this is the quandary they have created for themselves. and what is happen? i thought international relations was about compromise, quid pro quo, all these kinds of things here. but there's no, there's no way in to have a pragmatic conversation. it's, it's always, i mean, remember the foreign minister,

the soviet minister romito, he was mr. me, yes. well, nato and the went to alliance become mr. net into a 2021. well, 1st of all, i think we have to tell our listeners that the major perception of need to it in russia, that it's not kind of a collective military of political aligns per se, as more of the euphemism for american military presence in europe. so that has to be clear that when moscow does not really, especially in the last few years, does not really feel like talking to any european power but wants to reach out directly to washington d. c. that is a clear reflection of the russian understanding of who is really a pulling the strings you know, behind this whole organization. secondly, for a major political military alliance to exist after its initial kind of stage, it's important for it to have a new agenda and the new members. so the new agenda that the americans apparently

had try to promote with europe and was containing china, which is hard to do with an ally and such as need to, you know, and therefore this idea of, you know, research and or assertive russia is back in the game, so the more chaos and conflict is around russia, the more ideological or st political reason there is for needed to exist. and finally, you need to have these new members. and at some point you end up with, you know, what, you know, with these members actually work in the tail, your talent, major nato allies, such as the united states in western european. so what their priorities should be, how dangerous russia is, by merely you know, pushing their own agenda and they're all store of traumas into the, which is i think on acceptable. and then, and, you know, kind of, yeah, i see, you're absolutely right. and the,

the greatest nightmare of these countries is that there would be a, an overture to washington over their heads. this is something that i'm eastern european. i'll go back to the treaty of versailles. i mean, you know, you know, you, you recognize this nation states. but you don't do anything to protect our security, the same thing as repeating itself all over again. and at the end of the day, gentlemen, it is washing in the calls, the shots. it's there, it's their military alliance. and when the germans and the french drag their feet there listen to, but other countries not even finish up on this point before we go to the break. well, she's going to do very well. maybe i'm just a matter for me. but anyway, i, he's a scholar, you know, go ahead, you know, i'm thinking in simple terms, me just let me go on the handle. i'm out of the headlines. so then, you know, last week we should treat russia, ariah's state, and then

a number of credit lines in the 40 for which i also read the original same right? me make a secret deal with permanent crowns or within the state. ok? so this is insane because the east european got this in the situation and any chance for dialogue, you mean, i mean i'm going america, am i going to want to kind of meet with you and who bought it. it was the east european countries. so we have this terrible situation around because it wants to rush from the side of the states and from western europe is strength, not long down, but by the if you're from the east european got to go in here, we're going to go to a hard break and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on some real new stay with our team. ah, ah, ah, ah,

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to the rail science rolling using cy itself. back either financial saliva. no, they came out with a central flag support dot com. mm. call them right now if they stopped. ah. well connect across that were all things are considered on peter la bell. this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah, let us go back to maxine here in moscow. let's change gears over the past, alina sanchez. and that the fact that the, the julius,

i should be expedited to the united states as someone is much closer to reality. now, with the court's decision in the u. k. the, the interesting thing about what's his expedition fight against being sent to the united states. if this happened, this trial happened. court proceeding happened during the quote unquote democracy summit. joe biden was leading an international human rights day. i mean, the irony of ironies here i am covering the story. i have covered it from the very, very beginning because most western media don't want to cover it in the irony of that is that they love julian. aside for years they love weekly leaks for years. and now journalists to turn their back on him on the day of an international human rights. he's a prominent person that has been denied his the hypocrisy is breathtaking. go ahead . well, i think it's very important that you mentioned that the, the summit of democracy here,

because it not only is just an attempt on part of the united states to research local institutions. and in a way to replace the national security council, the united nations with mach or c leak in the long term. but it's also a way to reset its domestic image, especially following a issue with the attacker, with the transporters, entering congress in january that created a lot of, you know, on the democrats and saying, well, you know, american democracy in crisis. so that in a way is, is very important to show that internal domestic terrorist as they can label our are those who are little blowers really are talking about ranks of the internal system generally in the west has to pay price for not supporting the general image of, you know, a solid inter democracy with integrity or western side with integrity. so i think

our sounds really isn't cation point here, and he feel free to these, to master battle, as also as international battle. it didn't let me, i'm really glad that this was brought up that maxine brought this up because what's very curious to me is that this summer was about promoting democracy. but in my opinion, it wasn't ok. i think 1st of all, it was a sham number one, but number 2, what it is is that it's a defensive reaction on part of the neo liberal elite. this is what this is about. it's not about democracy. i mean, the ukraine was invited to this on the united states and its allies over through a democratically elected government in ukraine, in february of 2014, in this calendar year, according to the democratic, well, the people have been is wayland, nicaragua. so this is all about neo liberalism and maintaining the status quo. and

maxine is absolutely right. it is. this is a front to the united nations. it's a front of the united nations security council where they want to do and what and what doing aside reported on the crimes neoliberalism. go ahead, the more our i think you're quite right, a just want to share. i mean, when representatives of your grade i see on the panel discussion corruption. i mean like, as far as i remember there were 2 sent by this conference. and after the authoritarian regimes will not focus yes. and i can corruption, you know, wow, do it on a start. if you look at them on the materials that you provided on corruption inside the former soviet union, not only in the western countries, but you know, we get it what, how the breast use the mess it and you are absolutely right. it's the same when

these people who use even from a technical point of view, they use the research done by week. and now creating, do i found, mean one step closer to be extradited to the states? it's awful, and i quite agree with my see him that basically the aim, all that sounds fair is to scare people. i mean, don't you even think about becoming a bond whistle bought a little bit. there was no them. he barely escaped. he's leaving in rush. he's even in rush, you say, where i want to make us suffer. unfortunately, i think they, there will be, was ever notice if there was to $1015.00 seems to not a single person all the same stager as songs or snow the simply because it is so dangerous it is so on the been in now 3 young people, you know, yeah,

you're probably going to be a separate but i don't want to be you know, having the same destiny as the bradley chelsea remaining or the same death saw me twice before. and i was using this whole thing going cited with this one for and so she's just awful or next thing. but again, you know, the rule of law here, i mean, the condition that the, the, the british corp believed the, the american position that, that he would get a fair trial that his confinement would be not extraordinary, like superman or something like that. i mean, i don't know why a british court would believe any thing about the d o j. when it comes to doing a search, because this is not even, it is not even really political in the sense that, you know, if it's not trump versus buying,

you're biting versus obama. this is the national security state, and the rule of law means nothing to them. they will, they will get what they want, and that's the message that they're sending out. the british court is prompted and i think it's really shameful on part of the british authorities. because once he's out of their custody, they have no control over what is going to happen to him whatsoever. they can say, well, send him back. i mean, once the plane is on the tarmac, it's over and i seriously doubt will ever know what will, what will eventually happen to julianna's knowledge. because national security reasons. ok. and then again, rule of law and the in the human rights of one individual on display for the whole world to see go ahead, maxine will. sure. i also think the problem is that the julian assange for some time ago became a hospital issue for any government the wanted to deal with him. so that at some point the government ecuador was pressured to the point because they don't really

have this major strategic summer to, to stand up to the pressure of the kind of anglo saxon giants. and then the british also didn't want to deal with him because they thought, you know, that they did the sooner we get rid of him and it's not no longer our problem. obviously his fate is i think, very, you know, to be, to be worried about. and that i think he's, he's case should be a reminder of the danger of the unit world. and the unit poll dominance snowdon, who is also mentioned, there was perhaps more lucky to find shelter in russia, even though it wasn't his voice. righty ended up here and was lucky enough that he can he can this find security here. others that's, that's a big issue because there is no really a place to hide for these was wars inside western systems. ok. can see now as a some stage shows that they could be traced and found on and that's exactly speaks

to the sales care. ah, care of them all right. principle for philosophy edema that there was a time when we leaks were celebrated and julianna's orange was celebrated by journalist by the major broad feeds. they made a lot of money off of him, off of wiki leagues hard work, which i like to point out to everyone week you weeks as a sterling record for forgetting it right. probably no other news organization in the world can compare themselves to the accuracy of it. and that's the big problem, isn't edema because joining us and we can lead to the job, the journalists are supposed to do. ok, but they don't do it anymore. they carry water power and they don't. and, and julie massage is an inconvenient for individual inconvenient organisation weeki weeks because it shows just how pitiful their their profession is and they are, as journalists go ahead. well, you're right, it's a guilty conscience, you know,

the quantum. so on the west, the need yet, i mean, let's remember our sounds, diesel. why? it's single time. they didn't change a single letter, a single work in what they report that you know, the weeks and what did with the waste immediate in 20022003000 so needed all of the west. we're saying the same trend. so my struction, they never would just so these people live and they get surprises for the things like russia gave for the reports from the middle east. that said, you know, no one wants to send them to jail and they live in junior, for years. and our sons, who didn't live single time, is no patient such as table weight. so that's why i think the mainstream media was together because it's so we can, you know, into minds them or their own since the same story without what's know the,

i mean they publish stuff and it turned out to be co spend out to be right. all these millions old recording so full of invitations in spain, in prompts. there's an ongoing medical school. they will. all right, but he's a criminal, some calls and these journalists are, were you surprised? yes. mfc. rapidly running out of time, you brought up the unipolar world. it's interesting this democracy summit, the fate of, of julianna's, i, i think this all of that as a defensive position because the uniform moment is gone. it's over. but the american foreign policy leads and their acolytes around the world, they refused to accept that. and this democracy for some, it was a self reassuring that you were still in charge and we still control the global narrative. but it's not true, it's facade, and i think it's a weakness on their part last minute. go see you,

my friend go. i think that's exactly the point here. the very idea is not new and the, the idea to host the summit right now is a blunt attempt to return to the comfort zone of early 99 is following the break up of the soviet union. but there is no longer the comfort zone in today's world, and that's a problem for everyone. and i would say on, on top of that is that we look at the biden ministration. they're looking for some kind of foreign policy success. and if they're going to hang their hat on this summit or the complexity of complexities of ukraine, i think they're sorely going to be sorry, unless they want to force some issue here. i gentlemen, that's all the time we want to thank my guest here in moscow. and i think our viewers are watching us here are, do you see you next? i'm remember rock rolls. ah, ah,

ah, when i was showing wrong? well, just a to see how the advocate and engagement with when so many find themselves worlds apart. we choose to look for common ground. oh, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? high selection, whole community. are you going the right way or are you being that somewhere?

which direction? what is true? what is great in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. oh right now, there are 2000000000 people who are overweight or obese. it's profitable to sell food that is pricey and sugary and salty and addicted. it's not at the individual level, it's not individual willpower. and if we go on believing that will never change is obesity epidemic. that industry has been influencing very deeply. the medical and scientific establishment. so what's driving the obesity epidemic? it's corporate. ah.

tonight that him a po to no just media talks to stall for the nato expansion towards russia's borders in a telephone conversation with british prime minister boris johnson. and they don't going speculation over the situation and ukraine and accusations towards russia up to a 100. now a fear dead off. the tornadoes ripped through, central and southern parts of the united states. but the disaster also on the line, the country's deep political divide too, with some politicians already from the school points from the tragedy. had a special report, the sudanese who say they've been betrayed and had their dreams destroyed. coming up, we look at the 1000 strong protest gripping the capital there since october's ah .