honestly, wouldn't be a greater partner than russia, whether it comes to counter terrorism or european security, or even for a pretty, you know, cynic, selfish reason says, containing china. i don't see the policy of pushing russia towards china by all distinctions and isolation and all kinds of stuff is really in us interest. but i'm very skeptical that things will get any better anytime soon. i mean, you're always the voice of realism on this program and we really, really appreciate it because i couldn't agree with you more. so what, what is getting in the way it's an ideological, is it an ideological position? they can, we can't get over or the washington and it's, i can't get over because it seems to me, it doesn't seem to me. ukraine is not part of nato rush has made it very, very clear that it's a red line. after being promised, as a cold war was going to end the nature,

whitney expanded all to expand in 700 miles to russia's doorstep. so it ideology is the, is the bone of contention. am i wrong? or i think there is a mature of, of a bunch of factors here on one hand, it is always your, it was all that you really because i think you can see a bunch of examples where the same people or routing for ideological things are pretty fine with dealing and medic cents with other states that are not put in my live democratic. so i think ology is a come up for a greater geo politics and stuff. but he didn't, like i said, i don't really see pretty realistic geopolitical calculations kick in. even if only for one thing that you know, somebody wants to keep brush abusing at its western front and not getting gauge with china. you know, fueling the supreme crisis maybe in the interest. but honestly, i don't think it's in long term interest of the united states. what's been going on their demo in you,

and i've talked about what it would take to reorient on russia's relationship with the west and vice versa here. but the problem, and the reason why i'm following up with my question with maxine about ideology is the, is at this point in time, we look at the obama ministration, the trump administration, now the binding ministration in box themselves into a corner. because if you make a deal now it's called the peas management unit, it's, you know, they, that they've done this, they've done this rhetorically and ideologically, it's really been. and then the a p, if it was an intentional league, because i was always an anonymous source. and then by noon basically quietly said to ukraine, because it was a call after the virtual summer saying, saying that, you know, you know, cool your heels, you're not going to get in for 10 years. i mean, it seems to me that they're the ones that are in the quandary here. russia made it very clear. it's position ok and, and they in washington doesn't know how to respond, particularly nato. go ahead. i just don't see any magic realism behind

the mr. why don't section the actual, the west in general. i mean, these are on for you, more christians, which they conveniently renamed. no, i'm in support of the more precious or something it everyone sees that the pragmatic results wouldn't be worse. i'm in the united states in a big china, i'm only china, also its allies, basically turkey. i'm hungry what a lot and why these are important to us. so i think that the reasoning behind this all is good idea what you call it, because i don't see how the united states or they were being, you know, going to gain anything by, for example, freezing. and if you are all stream to, you know, we financially energy crisis in the solution is so near. if they just register the supply now the prices will go down in a mentor. oh us, you know,

maybe days. and then we'll go in and doing the openness. you know that the major theme in the german press during the last week was we can only pressure by saying that we are going to make notes to him to and that roger, this is nothing to do with. it has nothing to do with brett pregnant. if you give your d christina key and what's going on is that, you know, these people are trying to forget, he's pretty, i was, i was just puzzled by this article by carter lawyer in the washington post. it's an opinion piece. you know, she is a german english historian and she basically attacked. i'll give america for 4 leg is this most into being finished and been top and, and i'm going to call it because this is on the music guy. just sense of can you deal all with germany? is he still military isn't?

i'm going america has a date to pass that through the best to stand for it and she didn't step to africa. well, i mean, this is, this is, i'm president. and the guy here that, i mean you should have no, ma'am, are you always military isn't? this is something you and you know, what is very alarming is that military is actually answering the drum and what it takes from the back door. if the not to sat with you period because well the, the people who are taking on rules now it's much more sophisticated. we are more democratic that we agree to that. where more would you please mind that makes us you period and that allows us, for example, the green somehow and we can send you an honest pre. and then the whole history around ross is going to bring tomorrow. we should make it clear to watch and he's

going to pay a price. you know that there was this, it was like an option. what can we do? you want to know if you brain, you know, very most him to a ration from this. we've connection, it was a craziness that in general for the for week. yes, i mean maxime, be the oddity of, you know, bringing north stream to back into this. the only reason they have the 131 and 2 is because ukraine ended up being an unreliable energy partner as a transit country. that's the reason why i came and had nothing to do with ideology or anything else. and it was brass tax and it was north for him to we have to remind our audience. it was the germans that asked for. and it wasn't the russians to propose that it was the germans here. maxine nato was in a quandary right here because i have always argued on this program that if nato doesn't continue to expand, it will have no reason to exist. and this is the quandary they have created for

themselves. and what is happen? i thought international relations was about compromise, quid pro quo, all of these kinds of things here. but there's no, there's no way in to have a pragmatic conversation. it's, it's always, i mean, remember the foreign minister, the soviet for minister romito. he was mr. me. yes. well, nato and the western alliance become mr. net into a 2021. well, 1st of all, i think we have to tell our listeners that the major perception of need to it in russia, that it's not kind of a collective military of political aligns per se, as more of the euphemism for american military presence in europe. so that it has to be clear that when moscow does not really, especially in the last few years, does not really feel like talking to any european power but wants to reach out directly to washington d. c. that is a clear reflection of the russian understanding of who is really

a pulling the strings you know, behind this whole organization. secondly, for a major political military alliance to exist after its initial kind of stage, it's important for it to have a new agenda and the new members. so the new agenda that the americans are apparently and try to promote with europe p as was contained in china, which is hard to do with an ally and such as needed to you know, and therefore this idea of, you know, research and or assertive russia is back in the game, so the more chaos and conflict is around russia, the more ideological or st. political reason there is for me to exist. and finally, you need to have this new members. and at some point you end up with, you know, you know, with these members actually work in detail. the talent, major nato allies, such as united states in western european. so what their priorities should be,

how dangerous russia is, by merely pushing their own agenda and they're all history of traumas into the, which is i think on acceptable and then, and, you know, kind of, yeah, i see, you're absolutely right. and the, the greatest nightmare of these countries is that they would be a, an overture to washington over their head. this is something that i'm eastern european. i'll go back to the treaty of versailles. i mean, you know, you know, you, you recognize this nation states. but you don't do anything to protect our security and the same thing was repeating itself all over again. and at the end of the day, gentlemen, it is washing in the calls, the shots. it's there, it's their military alliance. and when the germans and the french drag their feet there listen to, but other countries not even finish up on this point before we go to the break. well my team has been very major. i'm just a mad at me. but anyway i, he's a scholar. you know, go ahead, you know, i'm thinking in simple terms,

me just that make all the handle. i'm out of the headlines event. you know, last week we should treat russia a state and then a number of credit lines in the 41st, which i also read in the original same russian, me make a secret deal permanent with france over the states. all. so this is insane because the european got this issue and any chance for dialogue, you mean, i mean i'm going america, am i going to want to kind of meet with and who bought this? it was the east european countries. so we have this terrible situation around because it wants to russia from the side of the states and from western europe is strength, not long down, but by the if you're from the east european i been here, we're going to go to a heartbreaking after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on some real new, stay with our team. ah,

well, let me know a piece of advice as a merge, we don't have with the we don't to look back. see the whole world leaves to take action to be ready. people are judgment, common crisis with we can do better, we should be better. everyone is contributing each in their own way. but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is great to response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we're in it together with

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a fantastic country that fantastic culture. oh, is your media reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safe, isolation, whole community? are you going the right way or are you being led to somewhere? direct? what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows.

oh oh, the wrong oh, just don't hold any world. yes, to shape out. disdain becomes the attitude and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah ah. well the magic crossed up were all things considered on peter la bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah,

let us go back to maxine here in moscow. let's change gears. over the past week we angelina sanchez and that the fact that the julius i will be extradited to the united states and so much is much closer to reality. now, with the court's decision in the u. k. the, the interesting thing about what's his extradition fight against being sent to the united states that this happened? this trial happened. court proceeding happened during the quote unquote democracy summit. joe biden was leading an international human rights day. i mean, the irony of ironies here i am covering the story. i have covered it from the very, very beginning because most western media don't want to cover it in the irony of that is that they love julian assange for years. they loved leaky leaks for years. and now journalists have turned their back on him. on the day of an international

human rights, he's a prominent person that has been denied his the hypocrisy is breathtaking. go ahead . well, i think it's very important that you mentioned that the, the summit of democracy here because it not only is just an attempt on part of the united states to reset local institutions. and in a way to replace the national security council, the united nations with democracy in the long term. but it's also a way to reset it's domestic image, especially following a issue with the attacker with the trans supporters entering congress in january that created a lot of, you know, on the democrats and saying, well, you american democracy in crisis. so that in a way is, is very important to show that internal domestic terrorist as they can label our of those who are whistleblowers really,

who are talking about ranks of the internal system. generally in the west has to pay the price for not supporting the general image of, you know, a solid inter democracy with integrity or the western side with integrity. so i think our sounds really is a k some point here and he feel free to the master battle as also as international that it didn't let me, i'm really glad that this was brought up. that maxine brought this up because was very curious and to me is that this the summit was about promoting democracy, but in my opinion it wasn't ok. i think 1st of all it was a sham number one. but number 2, what it is is that it's a defensive reaction on part of the neo liberal elite. this is what this is about. it's not about democracy. i mean, the ukraine was invited to this on, but the united states and its allies over through a democratically elected government in ukraine, in february of 2014,

in this calendar year, affording the democratic well, the people have been is wally in nicaragua. so this is all about neo liberalism and maintaining the status quo. and maxine is absolutely right. it is. this is a front to the united nations. it's brought to the united nations security council where they want to do and what and what doing essential reported on the crimes neoliberalism. go ahead demo. well, i think quite right. nice assignment focus is one of the sham. i mean, when representatives of ukraine, i see, you know, the panel discussion corruption. i mean like, as far as i remember there were 2 goals set by the conference after the story, terry and review our focus. yes. and i didn't corruption, you know, well do it on a start. if you look at wiki lives, there amount of materials that you provided on corruption. emphasize the former

soviet union, not only in the west and just by, you know, we can support what international breast use the massively and you are absolutely right. it's a saying when these people who use even from a technical point of view, they use the research done by weeks. and now that will pre asking, do i found mean one step closer to be extradited from united states. it's awful, and i quite agree with my see him that basically the aim, all that sounds fair is to scare people. i mean, don't you even think about becoming a bond more whistle bought a little bit too much. know that he barely escaped. he's leaving in rush. okay. he's even a rush safe by the way. i want to make us suffer. and unfortunately, i think there will ever notice if i was to 1015 since i am

not a single person. all the same stager as a song or snow, the simply because it is so dangerous it is so on the beach now. 3 young people, you know. yeah, you're probably going to be a separate yet, but i don't want to be as soon as you know, having the same destiny as bradley chelsea manning or the same thing twice before. and i agree with you the co coin sided with this one for him. so it's just, it's just awful maxime of it again, you know, in the rule of law here, i mean the condition, the quote of the british cor, believe of the, the american position that, that he would get a fair trial that his, i can find me, it would be an extraordinary, like super max or something like that. i mean, i don't know why

a british court would relieve any thing about the d o j. when it comes to julian, a, sorry, because this is, this is not even, it is not even really political in the sense that you know, it, it's not trump versus buying or biting versus obama. this is the national security state, and the rule of law means nothing to them. they wait, they will get what they want. and that's the message that they're sending out. the british court just punted and i think it's really shameful on part of the british authorities. because once he's out of their custody, they have no control over what is going to happen to him whatsoever. they can say, well, send him back. mean, once the plane is off the tarmac, it's over and i seriously doubt that will ever know what will, what will eventually happen to julianna's knowledge because national security reasons. ok. and then again, rule of law and the in the human rights of one individual on display for the whole world to see go ahead. maxine will sure. also thing the problem is that the julian

assange for some time ago became a hospital issue for any government the wanted to deal with him. so that at some point the government ecuador was pressured to the point because they don't really have this major strategic sovereignty to stand up to the pressure of the kind of anglo saxon giants. and, and the british also didn't want to deal with him because they thought, you know, that they did the sooner we get rid of him and it's not, it's no longer our problem state is, i think, very, you know, to be, to be worried about. and that, i think he's, he's case should be a reminder of the danger of the unit world and the unit pro dominance. snowden who is also mentioned there was perhaps more lucky to find shelter in russia, even though it wasn't his choice, right. he ended up here and was lucky enough that he can, he can find security here. others that's, that's

a big issue because there is no really a place to hide for these wars inside western systems. just because, you know, as a sun k shows that they could be traced and found, and that's exactly speaks to this, you know, scare us care of them all. principal, or for philosophy. if there was a time when we leaks were celebrated and julianna's orange was celebrated by journalist by the major broad feeds they made a lot of money off of him. off of leaks hard work, which i like to point out to everyone we leaks as a sterling record for for getting it right. probably no other news organization in the world can compare themselves to the accuracy of it. and that's the big problem, isn't edema because doing a thought and we can, we did the job, the journalists are supposed to do. ok, but they don't do it anymore. they carry water for power and they don't. and, and julie massage is an inconvenient for individual inconvenient organization,

weekly leaks because it shows just how pitiful their profession is and they are, as journalists go ahead. well, you are right, it's guilty cautions, you know, the quantum. so on the west, the need yet, i mean, let's remember our sounds, diesel. why is single time they didn't change a single letter, a single work in what they report that you know, the weeks and what did with the waste, you need it in 20022003000. so we need to all the west. we're saying the same trend, so struction, they never would just so these people lie and they get were surprises for the things like russia gave for the reports from the lease that said, you know, no one wants to send them to jail and they live in junior the 4 years and our phones who didn't live single time is no patient such as table weight. so that's

why i think the mainstream media wants to forget that because it's so we can, you know, into minds them or their own since the same story without, you know, the, i mean they published stuff and it turned out to be co spend out to be right, all these millions old recording, so full of stations in spain, in bronx, there is an ongoing medical school major was all right, but he's a criminal some calls and these journalists are, were you surprised? yes, maxine, rapidly running out of time, you brought up the unipolar world. it's interesting this democracy summit, the fate of, of julianna's i. i think this all of that as a defensive position because the uniform moment is gone. it's over. but the american foreign policy leads and their acolytes around the world, they refused to accept that. and this democracy for some, it was

a self reassuring that you were still in charge and we still control the global narrative. but it's not true, it's aside. and i think it's a weakness on their part last minute. go see my friend go. i think that's exactly the point here in the very idea, not new. and the, the idea to host this summit right now is a blunt attempt to return to the comfort zone. early 99 is following the break up of the soviet union, but there is no longer this comfort zone in today's world. and that's a problem for everyone. and i would say on top of that is that we look at the biden ministration. they're looking for some kind of foreign policy success . and if they're going to hang their hat on this summit or the complexity complexities of ukraine, i think they're sorely going to be sorry, unless they want to force some issue here. gentlemen, that's all the time we. i want to thank my guest here in moscow,

and i think our viewers are watching us here are. do you see you next? i'm remember with with oh right now, there are 2000000000 people who are overweight or obese. it's profitable to sell food that he's fancy and sugary and faulty, and a dictum. it's not at the individual level, it's not individual willpower. and if we go on believing that never change is obesity epidemic. that industry has been influencing very deeply. the medical and

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a the pentagon says it won't hold anyone liable for a botched drone strike in august that killed 10 civilians including 7 children just a day before the u. s. finished. it's pull out from afghanistan. vladimir putin calls for immediate talks to stop further nato expansion towards russia's borders and a telephone conversation with british prime minister boers. johnson that's made ongoing speculation over the situation in ukraine and accusations towards russia and the sudanese who say they've been betrayed and had their dreams destroyed. we've got a special report about a 1000 strong protests gripping the capital since their october scoop. ah.