balance only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk with a 1000 rally in central london against a raft of new anti coated measures as daily infections in the u. k. reportedly reach an all time high the british supreme court rules it was unlawful to drop an inquiry into the alleged torture of 14 suspected i already, members by british soldiers. one of them told us what he had to endure with this constant weight noise. that commandment took a, we are free and we were denied chile,

we all show were denied. you should toilets that hunting for the shopping. dad's and arizona law enforcement struggles to deal with hundreds of migrants arriving every day. officials are rounding on the by the administration. a sheriff describes the situation as chaos. so we end up with the desk in the desert robberies that are happening along the border, the pursuits, them, the ancillary criminal activity, like the large amounts of drugs that are being smuggled into our country. by that as a for me, my colleague collin gray, will be here in just under an hour's time with a look at your weekly they with us. this is our to international a with

ah, nation resent senior watching, going underground 70 years since the u. s. civil rights congress presented the we charge genocide, paper accusing the united states government of mass killing to the united nations. coming up in the show. a chronicle foretold 24 hours ahead of an urgent organisation of islamic cooperation meeting in pakistan on afghanistan. we ask legendary author an activist char golly, if despite ne donation media hysteria, major defeat in the circled graveyard of empires could actually foretell a brighter future. and 45 years to the day, legendary native american actress leonard peltier, woke up in the us after being extracted from canada. we speak to his lawyer who is fought for justice with kim kardashian about the legacy of co until pro and if anything can sway president biden, to release the man known as the u. essays, longest serving political prisoner. all the same, all coming up in today's going underground. but 1st the british press is focused on

an afghanistan whistleblower who is reveal details of the case arguably disastrous withdrawal from the country. but would establishment journalists have been caught less off god in the 1st place if they had spent more time focusing on the revelations, publicized by the world's most famous journalist julian assange, currently facing a trial in london with the future of free speech itself hanging in the balance one man who has been a champion of the week, he likes founder and vital and pressing voice on afghanistan is the author an activist target. his new book, the 40 year war in afghanistan, a chronicle foretold is out now and he joins me from london. thank you so much chart for coming back on. i mean, a lot of people say that the julius on trial is about free speech. if you read your book and i know you, you named check him in here, you might think it's not really about free speech. it's about the slow motion assassination, given that most journalists ignored the kinds of things you are writing. over the past decade or more about why british troops would die if for nothing in

afghanistan. a lot of my critique of fear from the storm war, including a debate with blair, right? government minister cornel fits which is in the book. these are all published to la guardia and as we were cutting the book together, number of people said it is amazing that god can use to publish old stuff and i will see myself surprised, but that was on ellen, ross bridger. and you can make register him of course, but i do feel allowed thinking about long term that he was probably the most objective. and it guardian has had certainly since 2nd one was if you compare that to the guardian today, kind of a huge, huge difference. and it's ironic that the left ember guardian was left with the boat to as fine i and isn't it? well, people go watch our interview with alan rus for gera. i actually fired me many years

ago. we do, i just say it's rarely. but do you think, i mean, the reason why most journalists have not been more obsessed by the assange case, which clearly across the global south and, and increasingly, many people in nato countries are more and more concerned about his, the allegations of his torture and his continuing incarceration more journalists on board because they wouldn't use the freedom of the press that they were given. in any case, when it comes to was like f canister, it's absolutely true of friendly storm was designated as the good by the western governments and where journalists stick appendages. and so that's how they covered it. you know the stories which made it one, not the stories revealed by julian assange and we keep peaks in 2010. the

afghan papers published by weekly show the war was just completely unwinnable. and it was useful for other things. for me, using afghanistan as a base to clean fill the money for increasing the drug trade. but it has nothing to do with freedom or democracy or women's liberation, or anything like that, as we now discover after the 20 year occupation collab students and they, i mean, that showed it didn't even have mass support, which they always used to compare a. well, if they were so happy, why did the army of 300000 guns collapse within a week refused to fight? so it's, it's been a disaster story and i've been writing about it for, for you know,

40 years was the, the american occupation and the nato occupation, so called operation enduring freedom, enjoyed for 20 years. prior to that, there was a soviet how to pay sion from $9.00 to december, $979.00. and in between the 2, there was a fierce faction. fighting between these ma main factions which destroyed gobble, gobble was not destroyed by the russians. gamble was bombed and destroyed, or large chunks of, bit by different fractions would fought with the us against the russians fighting each other. and at that point, they focused on me into services, intelligence and the pakistani military, a taliban and propelled them into power. with the complete back of the united states, the agencies state, department, pentagon, et cetera,

the white usa usa, moscow occupation of afghanistan. but also draw us to the idea that actually what we think about us funding that would lead to $911.00 happened before the russian invasion of afghanistan. jimmy carter sat in dream events. it would lead up to $911.00. absolutely. right. basically, what happened in crime this time is in 1978 the show of iran, or the pressure on the government. the republican government in afghanistan, led by mamma and said, there are too many commies in your army and air force. the see, i provided the shop with lists. these were at dinner with the neighbors don't act on it. when this news was leaked in signed, lee army and air force officers belonging to the true fractions of the people's

democratic party. i missed on met and they organized for me. good, i suppose. describe as a preemptive co and that a preemptive go. in april 1978 was portrayed as a revolution. they tried to make it into a revolution, but they miscalculated on a number of things. and they had promised that now of honest on the democratic, in every sense of the word way. if that was the case and you were really going to do that, which would've been a huge step forward. the 1st thing you need to do was to come go, constituent assembly and decide on a new constitution. because the last constitution, serious constitution, a crown is found in 19 bad in 1918, 1919 biking. a minor was

a pretty decent constitution to be honest. and his wife clean sarabia had put into it the right of women to vote. so had that constitution been carried screw up on this, one would have been the 1st country to give women the right to vote. all women before britain before the united states, before any european country. so that regime was toppled by the british. so the 1st government to come and send some on with progressive aims and pretensions was the p . d. b, a government after the bay length is preemptive, going $78.00, had a right that on institution, improved it. some under constituent assembly campaign for elections or knows they might have one, i don't know with order, but not doing back. i'm effectively operating in very young

democratic way industrialized ordinary people, including in global the countryside certain b. and that is when carter and his national security advisor, he said we're preparing a back track. and they started our main groups and that's gone. it's gone to the states. and that is when they hired, been locked. that in the british, journalists in american journalists can be forgiven for not understanding the slightest idea about african history and how britain destroyed women's rights. were there obviously people in the biding cabinet and around by those people, maybe people here going women's rights, women's rights. and you say in the book, just bringing up a bit forward it rape, widespread rape in discriminative in killing that child killing. this accompanied the ice f obligate occupation of afghanistan. yeah, he did. and you know,

they have not provided any figures on when i made this allegation in public on television radio, in writing, they denied they asked me for my pro, where's your role? i sort of proof as reports coming out on this from women's organization, some of which one in particular is not keen on the occupation. and they've told me that actually rape went down during that time period. and it is now up again because the northern alliance with whom the west was in cahoots, or no better marginally, even worse on this question than ever. so their allies carried on the other question i raised is, could you give us statistics on the number of brothels that are being set up in a crown is on to accommodate the nato armies and help operation enduring freedom

mean harmony, sex workers have to endure working in brussels in the planet storm, because the reports from bosnia during the u. gustavo and other places is quite horrendous. never did we get a single reply. and this is a story which really needs to be investigated now that it's possible to, to find out what happened and where are those even in the past few days, the 10s of indians are killed by a drone strike. in the end of the occupation, the bending and says, no one will be prosecuted, you say in the book that and i suppose one could say that what you were talking about there was facilitated by the international monetary fund in a way indirectly. what do you mean by the i m f being partly responsible for the creation of what would become the 11th was political islam. when you create a system in which you take away the safety net,

large numbers of people in clinical. so many of them in muslim concrete but not exclusive, want to leave them where you leave them with nothing. you create an emptiness in these societies. and in situations like this, really just pretty just going to be very effective saying no one does anything for us on the god. and the only way you will do it is by doing a, b, c, p, or whatever their motive sign or whatever their enemies all the time. and so this entire economic policy framed by the global economic institutions, mtv, these concrete, you know, i mean, emptied and gave them no control they didn't know want to do. and the fact is, is, is virtually the same. of course, in some countries like pakistan, these groups are deliberately created from above in order to fight against the

soviet union or in order to do what the united states want to be done in relation to setting up a taliban government, etc, etc. but in most cases the traction do small and minorities asked to be said on how these is linked to the economic crisis and things got increased when nothing is done with them. they live in miserable conditions, no health system functioning system, no functioning education system. and at the same time, they see an elite in their concrete is belonging to the same religion getting richer and reach, reach, having living in a bubble world. but within this bubble world, private jets fly them from one part of the country to the other. children go to top schools which exist in that cree but are not available to and i were well,

main majority of the population. i sometimes wonder how come, but maybe it isn't large with baseball tag. i'll stop you there more from jerry after this break plus his time running out for the native american known as the usa, longer serving political prisoner leonard peltier. we ask his lawyer about his chances for freedom and the dog legacy of the f. b. i's counted democracy activities for this or more coming up in part 2 of going underground. ah, join me every thursday on the alex simon, sure. and i'll be speaking the guess in the world politics, sport, business, i'm sure business. i'll see you then. ah

ah, well, go back on silly, retire golly, legendary activists in author of the 40 year war in afghanistan, a chronicle foretold. right now, there are definitely clinton night forces or care storm or, of course leader than everybody here are pointing people as a border wars after 911 like afghanistan. you draw contradictions in this book between the fact that tony blair believed in nation building and had the same time was destroying britain at home, in the sense of privatizing over the nation itself. just tell me about their destroying social democrat, democracy norms from 1945 onwards here at home, while trying to create them abroad. well, it's the mere liberal consensus created by fracture and regal. i mean, there was a real continue to new hampshire and major blair

brown cameron, all of them affectively hanging on to that consensus. and blair and mendelson, actually boasting, willing to privatize more than sheet. well, that's your philosophy. how can you build an e conquering anywhere in the world except by handing over money to unscrupulous grot, local politicians and landlords, an opening into some grain? and of course, they make the money themselves. they've built mansions for themselves, or, you know, option. it would have taken $5000.00 to build a small house with 2 or 3 bedrooms of mount breaks to house, an afghan fan. why didn't they do it? they didn't do it because of the idea of doing it. had been outlawed and banished, more or less in the west, it serves on what the cost of the wars is estimated at trail and trillion trillions,

ingredients, it wouldn't build anything for the all great people. well of, finally, just on, i mean, julian assange famously said that the afghan war was a recycling mechanism of a taxpayer dollars into the arms companies in merced. reason all those companies lobbied for in on k street and their profit. you, you wish to say that it is optimism in the sense that them you seem to suggest it for a young population average age 18 in a 40000000 population country. you believe that around back is that china and russia will replace the nature powers. i mean, why are you so confident that nato nations won't again, go back into afghanistan? as you say, it didn't remind you so much of vietnam, the defeat this here, it was the, the, my, the in khartoum. it reminded me of you in the 19th century. i will be provoked, but the thing is this, that the world is changed. china who buys

a very big place now in any serious to political thinking in that region. the 1st country didn't buy the new taliban leaders was china. but we still haven't had a detail designed talks, but it's fairly clear that 2 things were discussed in the brownies. dan shouldn't be used as a base by jogging groups against any concrete. and secondly, discussions on coming into china, belton roads initiative, and having some infrastructure developed. and that when the war against it's gone is done, started iran back nature because of its own rivalries with bomb. and harry was a hot spot of opposition to the taliban government. compare it with this study. as the taliban entered hell, there was no opposition. so the indications are and more than integrations. we know

that since 20 in 2016, the iranians have been in discussions with bob. without any doubt. they are suggesting that the guns go for a constitution, they would suggest the iranian model is better. well, that is better than nothing. i will grant you back. and they are suggesting facts between the 2 countries and no more battles and rivalries, etc. so it's the changed world and iran's big change row. they have no illusions 9 the united states at long last china's change pro. russia is not backing into the last phase, didn't back the what was happening in it. so this big shift i think offers some, i'm not too full actually. you know, there's a gloomy sight to me,

but the i am more than i have been for some time tag. i thank you. ah, well, another street fighting man known around the world is the u. s. s. longest serving political prisoner de facto leonard peltier champion by everyone from nelson mandela to some common unto mark was to rage against the machine 45 years ago. today, the legendary native american activists woke up in the u. s. after being extradited from canada on now withdrawn testimony linking him to the murder of 2 f. b i. agents is arguably discredited. trial is now viewed in the context of the api. i is white, a co intel pro initiative the name to stifle dissent and protests within the united states. now $77.00 and in ill health peltier is looking to you as president and mass incarceration architect joe biden for clemency than had penalty his lawyer. kevin chop joins me now from nashville, tennessee, as you'd say, judge a judge sharp, thank you so much for going on before i get into this. and i would advise people to

look up his case on the internet. if people don't know, leonard peltier is, how is the health of leonard peltier? well, you know, leonard aisd is 77 years old. he has multiple health issues. on top of that, you've got raging co it throughout the bureau, prison system. it's in his really touching, go with leonard's health, and he's got some serious issues that, that really cannot be dealt with within the bureau prison system. we need to get in the, you are appointed a federal judge by a bomber embargo obama. he couldn't, free peltier is m f p i direct was james co, me quite a famous f b i, director of bill clinton couldn't under louis free was the f b i, director than except now it's all jane got biden's own interior secretary, deb holland, who said before appointed her appointment that your client should be freed. surely he can be free now. right, well, i want to go back, you know,

could they have fried him? they could, they didn't have the political will to do. we know what you said at the top of the show, this is all a hold over from the hoover f b i and the co intel pro f b i. that doesn't exist except to the extent that you've still got leonard peltier in prison. you need to get lenard out for all of the reasons that had to do with his now completely discredited trial and expedition from canada. but you really also the government needs to do this so that they can break from that old cover f, b i, you know, what you're saying would be completely denied. i know you're a full, the federal judgement denied by the f b i a by the, i don't know the supreme court. what do you talking about a political trial justice in your country is not political as the whole point. well, well, look, even even the u. s. attorney that prosecuted the case now says they

don't know who shot these agents. they do know it wasn't leonard peltier. they know that much. and so you know, jane st. reynolds, who was the us attorney, on the case, reported by appointed by jimmy carter, came out with a letter in july to president by that says it is time to release leonard peltier. that's the current or the, or the former us attorney. on the case. i mean penalty is a convicted of killing jack cola ronald williams to life for sentences. i know the witnesses have withdrawn their claims at that time, ballistics forensic, the role, and you, you maintain the vindicating him. we will actually, um, since people may know some of the case of killing the murder of these 2 f, b i, agents is some of the affidavits were withdrawn because they were kind of tortured by the f. b. i. the witnesses tied to chairs the u. s. government does not claim anymore that he shot these ages. they don't know who killed the agent,

and his co defendants were acquitted based on self defense, what the government ended up doing. once it was discovered that they had sculpt, tory ballistics evidence that they did not turn over. he was originally convicted of shooting to agent, then it was determined or revealed that they had exculpatory ballistics evidence. once that came out, you could no longer say that leonard peltier shot, anybody because they knew that he had. and so they changed their theory to one of the aiding and abetting. so then the question becomes, who did the aided a bet because his co defendants were acquitted based on self defense. so when assistant us attorney who tried the case was asked by steve cross at 60 minutes, who did the aid and abet? he said, i don't know, maybe himself. well, that's legally impossible. there was no crime that fits co. defendants were acquitted based on self defense. and you cannot aid and abet yourself. and i know,

well, i suspect he was thought he was being cute and funny and flippant with that answer . but this is somebody's life. this is a criminal justice system in this country that has to mean we have a constitution that has to mean something. and we sat in the f 44 years for aiding and abetting himself. though he didn't shoot the gun that kill you correctly. i mean it's legally impossible to aid and abet yourself. you either did it or you didn't do it at. they know he didn't do it, which is why i never know which is why this goes back to co intel pro, as you're saying, because it's, it's a case that means something, it's symbolic, that's your contention. how would you explain to christopher ray, who actually said to the senate judiciary committee in march the f b, i is not systematically racist. i raised some eyebrows given the f. b. i involvement or accusations about involvement in assassinations of black leaders. obviously, how would you explain to christopher ray, the head of the f

b i who presumably will be telling biden about whether to release your client. what co until pro even was. well it's, it's back to where we were before, which is the government needs this as much as leonard peltier needs to go home and spend the remaining days of his life, which are probably not many back at the, at the up at his chippewa reservation in north dakota, but the government needs this because there is no question that co intel pro exists that there is no question that co intel pro, systematically violated the rights of us citizen. nobody questions anymore. of course had happen. what we question now, and what the f b i to look at the federal government needs to look at is does that still exists? and if it doesn't, well then let's break from that. you've still got a prisoner there. there are multiple prisoners though, who were victims of that, you still have one in prison. we now the violations that happen. we now know

the threats and the intimidation against witnesses to testify against him. we now know that ballistics test proving he didn't shoot anyone were with hell. we now know that there was a racist jure, admitted prejudiced jerk booth stayed on the jury. we know all those thing, all constitutional violations, less in this and let him go. ha, and dr. real with finally find the very, very briefly what will it mean as regards a accepting the history of genocide, of native american people's in the americas. if he does die in prison and if he could, he could get a plea deal, but he refuses to do a plea deal. he wants clemency rather than a plea deal. what would it mean if you took a believe he'll come to think of it? well, he didn't commit it, he's never going to admit that he cra, committed a crime. he did not commit it. he was going to do that. he wouldn't spent the last 45 years in prison. what it means up to release leonard peltier is that we can kind,

we can finally start to deal with the issues of our tortured relationship with the native american community. what they need to do is say, let's release leonard, let's admit the mistakes of the past. let's start to try and heal. ready that relationship just have a chance. thank you. thank you. that's ever the show will be back on monday when we speak to a man detained for 14 years of the usa is de facto infamous torture camp in occupied cuba. one, panama seal open today, despite powers from washington, shut it down until then keep in touch my social media and get in touch to let us know if you think biden should drug clemency to leonard peltier. ah ah ah

ah.