find out how he did it was a squarespace to go deeper into the unprecedented case against assange. i'll talk to journalists, mohammed l monsey mohammed l ma z is the founder and editor of the new site. the interregnum has bylines in the canary jacobin the grey zone. and the real news then we'll go to correspondent anders lee with some mind blowing old news about how sweet an almost me to turn towards real socialist economic policy in the 1980, but was stopped by a very popular musical group. first, here's my interview with mohammed l. mossey. hello and welcome mohammed. it's so great to have you on to talk about this. so before we get into the charges, let's go through a short history of assumptions captivity. can you help us go through it? first, he was at the ecuador in embassy, then he was at bell marsh prison, and now he faces the extradition to united states. and what are the conditions that he experienced in the u. k?

yes, so from 2012 to 20. 19 april. if i recall correctly, he was in the embassy. and since then, he's been taken out and he's in bel marsh prison, which is if you like a maximum security prison is one of britain's more notorious prisons. some during the what the guantanamo bay of the best to the guantanamo bay britain guantanamo bay. that's correct. as some people know as, and that's where also people convicted or suspected of murder or terrorism, serious terrorism charges. i've also been held there and continued to be held there . and during this period, the one working group on arbitrary detention passed its opinion that julian sands was being arbitrarily detained on the basis that there were multiple forces

that essentially compelled him to go there and prevented him from leaving. can you talk to us a little bit about how the u. k. authorities were cooperating with american officials to prosecute assange and were they doing it enthusiastically? were they under pressure it seems that they were from what we know quite enthusiastically, assisting the u. s. government, for example, when, according to various freedom of information releases, we've seen the e mails from the u. k. from british prosecutors to swedish prosecutors telling them as early as what 20122011 not to come to the u. k. to interview julian us on. so they were actively discouraging them, which is something that they have done previous cases. and julian had said that he was willing to be interviewed in the u. k. that his only concern of going back to sweden was that he was led to believe that there was

a secret indictment against him. that he would ultimately be rendered from suite into the u. s. that, that the swedish investigation had nothing to do with anything. they alleged to be investigating that, that was focused on getting him secretly to the u. s. where he'd end up in, in the sort of federal, a isolation or, or for many years. we've also seen that britain played a key role in pressuring the ecuadorian government of lenin moreno to allow the metropolitan police to withdraw julian from the embassy. so they had invited a, there's a, an excellent article from a declassified u. k. which discusses not only a what was in sir alan duncan's diaries, he's a former, is a british politician, former government minister with the foreign office, a conservative party member. and he, he says in his autobiography that, that he pushed the prime minister to sweeten the ecuadorian presidents. they. the

article also discusses a high ranking members of the ecuadorian governments being invited to britain, their, their travel expenses being paid by the british states. and this was all in the lead up to julian ultimately being pulled out from there, pulled up from the embassy. so it's seems that they've been quite happy to go along . and to assist us throughout this process, including up to now. yeah, the u. k. they want to show how good of a vassal they, they are to the us and show what a good little brother they are. but let's get into those 17 charges which songs faces and faces 175 years in prison. can you give us like an overview of those charges? okay, so 17 out of 18 of those charges all relate to julian and wiki leaks is obtaining and publishing of documents which are primarily known as

the afghan, the stan war diaries, the iraq war logs, the diplomatic cables and the guantanamo bay detainee files. and we've seen documents which discuss the killings of civilians which were sort of covered up also the practice of of the use of child prostitutes pre p besson children as well. so we're talking about pet ophelia, which was sanctioned, or, or turned a blind eye to, by occupation forces nato forces us forces, which was engaged in by u. s. allies. in gamma. stan, ironically, heat. the taliban had had put an end at least formerly, legally, to certain practices which sort of researched after the occupation that's known as so called dancing boy tradition. where young children are, boys would then dance in front of various ban and then they get purchased

thereafter. and of course treatment of prisoners in guantanamo bay. so that's the kind of thing that we're looking at. yeah, i'd imagine these things were published. go ahead. yeah, i just wanted to mention, i think it's interesting that the indictment focuses on a lot of things that have not withstood the test of time. and you know, the, it's hard to be sympathetic to the u. s. when they're talking about the detainee videos and interrogation videos, when all of those methods have been discredited. after wiki leaks, release the afghan documents, you know, all major news sites and newspapers were running stories about how bad the warn afghanistan is. and so it's interesting that the indictment mentions all this, but it's hard to be sympathetic with that case will the way their

angle is that a some of these documents contains the identities of sources of u. s. government sources. and this put them in harm's way. and they say also that some of them they couldn't get into contact with them and they don't know, although they can't establish if they harm came to them as a result of the documents being published. that's what they allege. of course they had and was a year and advanced knowledge that these documents would be published because wikileaks informed them and they were going through redactions. i think it's also important for people to know that crypt tom, which is a us based site, had published originally published the full on redacted diplomatic cables of which extensively contained the names of certain sources. but they have never been prosecuted. which is interesting because they're based on the united states. so it doesn't seem to really be about that, even though that's what they allege. and if they wanted to, they could have excluded all the documents. that list the kinds of things that i described, but they haven't, right, the,

it's about the whole trove of all these documents, the obtaining them, and the publishing them as you say, new york times, the guardian watching to post also reported on these documents. yeah. and one prizes for them, of course. ah, yeah, i wanted to talk specifically about the, the charge to commit intrusion into a computer and the conspiracy to commit computer intrusions. what, what is, what exactly does that mean when they say that in the indictment? so one of the charges, one of the 18 charges a 17 or under the 1917 espionage act law that was passed a 1917 which is targeted. a people who opposed entry to the 1st world war as well as potential spies. although it seems to be primarily have used against people who, who spoke out against u. s. involvement in the 1st world war. i'm at one of the charges under the

computer fraud and abuse act. if i recall correctly, if that's the correct act, that's the come conspiracy to commit computer intrusion. basically, they alleged that julian engaged a that chelsea manning who leaked the documents in question to juliana to wiki lakes. i had asked julian for help, assisting her to crack a password hash and they discussed this. and then eventually julian or whoever it is that chelsea manning was speaking to that the u. s. government alleges was julian, but somebody at wikileaks had said, sorry, we can help you with us. basically, we've looked at it, we can help you. and the government said, okay, well this discussion is a conspiracy to commit computer intrusion. the fact that they couldn't do it, or they came back and said, no, it's not possible that's irrelevant or, or that something that has to be decided by jury in the us. and that's the key part of this, the so called hacking charge. after key evidence expert testimony,

a was presented that said, look, this was just about helping chelsea manning gain access to a video gaming and entertainment site that was blocked to you as soldiers. and that chelsea manning was known for her by her colleagues for getting at gaining access to such things. and they actually had a u. s. military expert. 15 years near the armed forces, a investigator who, who knew the computer system, produced a, a report saying that that the defense is argument or position was consistent with the facts and the u. s. government wasn't, they then expanded the computer intrusion charge to include julian going to certain hacking conventions and saying to people, hey, if you've got something, you know, pass it on, we're interested in and serious documents that have ethical concern. basically, we have to go to a quick break, but stay right there and we'll be back with some more show. ah,

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a robot must protect its own existence with welcome back. i'm named care vonny and this is for dr. tonight v i p. now let's go to the rest of my interview with mohammed o mossey. how is this you saw this application of the espionage act unique using it against assange? we've seen whistleblower is being charged under the espionage act, of course like chelsea manning and recently daniel how was charged with violating this 1917 law. so can you talk a little bit about that? so the charges filed in the eastern district of virginia. same with those against edward snowden and jeffrey sterling, former c, i, intelligence officer and,

and john kerry, aku former c i officer, and i think bill benny and, and thomas drake as well. and that's because it has, i think, a 100 percent, conviction rate and 99.999 percent conviction rate on the jury comes from the local community, which is the national security apparatus. the department of defense, the cia, the f, b i a various weapons contractors. so the jury will be either active serving members, retard members or their family members of the national security state, which makes it quite unusual because they could, they could fall indictment in any, in any jurisdiction. they choose to fall under the espionage act in that jurisdiction for that precise reason. or if he is indeed prosecuted if this prosecution continues and he's expedited to the united states, he will be the 1st ever publisher prosecuted under the espionage act. so bear in mind, this is not somebody who is a us citizen,

he was not present in the us. when he, he obtained or published the documents. he never took an oath of office or a pledge of allegiance to n a u. s. agency, nor did he ever sign any confidentiality agreements. he indeed has no obligation to the u. s. government, and yet they are seeking to apply the u. s. a spinach act against a journalist and publisher who is located outside of the united states for actions he took outside of the united states, which would normally be covered under the 1st amendment. so it's yeah, very disconcerting for, but i think, yeah, there's a number of unprecedented things going on here. you have that. it's a, a foreign journalist and you have the fact that they're targeting his, his publishing. so let's, let's talk about how independent reporters and news organizations should be really concerned about this. what should they be alarmed by most the extra territorial application of u. s. law. normally something people associated with imperialism,

right? so for example, if a u. s. citizen, or anybody else killed somebody outside of your jurisdiction. normally you can't be tried rights for actions that have occurred externally thus in a separate legal jurisdiction. but yet, for some reason, with the espionage act, we're saying that he can be, i'm, and well imagine if the situation was reversed. if it was china, let's say i had a or you had published documents, exposing waste, fraud, abuse, criminality and other internal machinations of the chinese mackwood security. you know? and renee ha and you were published, you did so in the united states. and then when you were visiting, i don't know you're in the philippines say. and then the chinese issue an arrest warrant for you between you and the at, towards the filipino government to get you expedited to china. and now you're facing what a 100 years or a 170 years, which is what he faces new s on since only 5 of for having obtained and published

chinese national defense documents or other top secret in his case wasn't even top secret as like secrets yes, like low level classification. yeah, that's the argument was one thing that struck me was the rules of engagement, which is not a very secret document. right? well, apparently it is to them also because one of the things with the rules of engagement is what it shows is what the us soldiers were allowed to get away with. right? because this is their rules of engagement. so when you're saying, ah, did these people of violate the policy that they're being told? first of all, what policy they're being told that helps for you to understand as a journalist or observer, whether or not a the rules of engagement comport with the laws of war. now it's known as inter, since you monetary and law for the same thing and, and whether or not the soldiers or even adhering to those rules of engagement. and that's also among the documents like your rights that they're,

they're charging him for revealing, or for publishing. he didn't reveal anything, it was chelsea manning that at least the documents as wikileaks which published them. so they're a bowler. sure. let's kind of move over to a little bit of speculation. what do you think this trial is going to look like? you mentioned earlier that ah, the charges really surround this accusation that he, he ah, endanger the lives of afghani civilians who were giving information to the u. s. military. would that be the strongest evidence that the government would have against him? so what 1st let me say that there's all kinds of appeals or so be lodged both against the u. s. government victory at the high court recently, but also in terms of other aspects that they lost at, at the magistrates court, such as a politically motivated trial, that he wouldn't get a fair trial on the states, et cetera, et cetera. so the, so we're looking at a couple more years potentially, of appeals in treating up to the european court of human rights. but were he to be extra dia to the united states?

no, the united states does. the u. s. government won't have to say anything about anybody being injured or disappeared. they don't have proof that anybody's been injured. yeah, and number was number 2 is that if they did have that we heard about we're going with yeah. yeah, the is all just a new window and allegation that just gets republished by certain outlets. they don't have, not, there it is actually not a criminal offense to, to publish the identity of a source. i mean, also like what am i, as a non us citizen obligated to protect the source of the cia like, that'd be weird or what could the russian government than say, the same thing if i real real the source of the f s b or, or you know, or the iranian until intelligence service, et cetera, et cetera. so that's, but there is no that law a, such a law was debated in congress and it failed to pass. so in fact, the prosecutor could stand up and say in court before the jury, if julian's expedited, we accept that nobody was injured by anything published by week leeks,

we 100 percent accept that. and it would not matter because these are strict liability offenses motive. and intentions don't matter. and fact of julian says, yes i did publish x, but the reason i published it is because it reveals the prosecutor could stand up and say, objection. his motive is irrelevant and what the documents revealed or relevant. all that matters is did he publish ex wines a document? they don't even need to go into the details where to send documents. and that's it . and from past practice, including the case of a daniel ellsberg, when he was being prosecuted under the espionage act, the judge will say, objection, sustained. your motives don't matter what was inside the documents, doesn't matter, doesn't matter if, even it revealed criminality. and that's how the espionage act is word it. of course and, and daniel ellsberg case, he was a whistleblower who had signed confidentiality agreement. was nonetheless a whistleblower to this on just isn't a whistleblower. he doesn't work with us government, his journalist. but he would be subject to the same procedures. so that is another

very disturbing aspect of this case is that your intentions don't matter. there's no public interest defense. you can't, there is no public interest exception in the law and you'll get a national security jury with a 100 percent conviction rate in the eastern district of virginia. so that's what you would face and that's what he faces. well, thank you so much. mohammed for coming on today and, and getting into this trial it's, it's really an interesting case and a very unprecedented case. and thank you so much for coming on and explaining it to us. thank you for inviting me. next step. it's time for some mind blowing all news . our resident scandinavian correspondent anders li, brings us a story about how the nation of sweden almost turn socialists on the 19 eighties and what it had to do with the pop band abba to find out. here's anders way. the this is a story about

a monumental clash between socialism and one of its greatest enemies disco in 1982 . after a 6 year respite from governing sweden, the social democratic party was swept back into power, fled by prime minister olaf palmer scene here with his smoking body. fidel castro. i can't help that question. palmer's taste, being around hundreds of cuban cigars and still going with cigarettes. now after world war 2, sweden had seen a steep increase in their standard of living thanks to their role in rebuilding europe and a militant labor movement, which by the eighty's, had gotten to nearly 80 percent unionization swedes were content. they had their funnel cakes, their meat balls, and their pickled fish too. but despite the relative prosperity, sweden's private wealth was concentrated, the vast majority of it in the hands of just 15 families. to address this, the socialist economist, rudolph minor, introduced the minor play. a very bold move when you consider how skin navient are

so humble that many of our homeland it's illegal to name things after yourself. the restaurants there are all named after the food. you can't name kids after yourself, so they just make names up where you think helga came from. the original plan was a strident attempt to socialize sweden's economy. it would have mandated that large companies put 20 percent of their annual profits into 13 wage earner funds run by in for workers from 13 different industrial shockers. those funds would then be divided between reinvesting and companies. further increasing the share owned by workers in financing, research, expertise, education and training for workers to assist them in the running of their companies . over time, this would have let unions and workers take over corporate boards and eventually own and operate the companies themselves. my dear understood that it's not enough to regulate and tinker with capitalism or ad patting to the worker, crushing machine. if you want a truly democratic society, you need

a truly democratic economy. as one mainstream economist warmed at the time. within 5 years, the funds would control most of swedish industry. the market economy would cease to exist as anyone who's been watching succession knows rich, people hate themselves, but they do love their wealth, which is why in sweden they weren't exactly thrilled about giving it up. the minor point became part of the social democratic parties platform just as they were voted out of office in 1976. by the time they were ready to return to power in 1082, sweden's ruling class was prepared. they launched a counter offensive to protect sweden's most profitable companies, several of which were owned by the infamously, cruel and powerful capitalist cabal. abba, yes, the band abba, whose song dancing queen. you've definitely heard if you watched a movie about the 70s or bench, the curio key bar around anyone who's drunk in over 50. and i'm sorry, my mentioning that song gets stuck in your head for the next year or so. abba had

balked swedish cultural norms by becoming a flashy em oddest international pop sensation, which was probably for the best. it shouldn't be controversial say that i scanned it. adrian's could stand to lighten up a bit, but then they had to go and violate the good parts of scanner, navy and culture by becoming hard core entrepreneurial libertarians. classic disco story. as the band manager stig anderson said at the time, the funds are just a device so that the unions can get power. they will be disastrous for the country . it is ridiculous to think that they could take care of the money better than os professionals. if that action isn't perfect, it's because i'm actually norwegian abil threatened to leave sweden if the minor plan was passed and held a series of anti socialist concerts, leading up to the 982 election. i guess an anti socialist music festival is just like a regular music festival, except instead of everyone sharing their drugs in food,

their porting and ripping each other off for it. now, in spite of the free market, jim fast, the social democrats once, but the political will, wasn't there to see miners plan through. while the government did introduce wage earner funds and $984.00, they were extremely watered down. rudolph minor himself described the final product as a pathetic, correct, with most of the key principles of economic democracy. wholesale redistribution of capital ownership and solidarity wage policy having been abandoned or substantially undermine the funds were privatized after 992. by a right when government, when i think of a pathetic rat, now will think of abba. oddly enough, the term pathetic read could be easily song to the tune advancing. the minor plan may have ultimately been a failure, but it stands up as an important model for socialist transition and has even influenced worker ownership proposals in the united states. it also provides a valuable political lesson for socialists that capitalist and stop at nothing to

prevent us from winning a truly democratic society. even if those capitalists are pop star from sweden. i manders leave with redacted tonight. that's the show. but don't forget to check out that free exclusive content online are portable dot tv. just scroll down to the redacted night playlist. also check out more content on youtube dot com slash redact tonight until next time. keep fighting. ah, i am with the city delegated, and as you want to talk to stand together, we'll continue to stand together against russia. media in germany did complete some of the errors that we don. this may say notice if he needs us chunky dawson,

it's about 3000000 influence, other nations, french u. k. and even latin america and other countries in future than maybe knew where to high wrong cycle pollute with members of your household. so please, please, please, please. we have to continue to fight. don't just need to to do the russia must not be allowed in germany. i want to call and leave it to show ought to be an out t the innovation, the 5 and the yes. and then after the knowledge, mrs. guns and 2 sons. technology is a very big industrial and there's lot of opportunities for hackers live. it is not here, right, but he didn't bring the law in the country you're dealing with why arrest him that? the major cybersecurity challenge is the sovereignty of laws that cyberspace has no

borders. new sovereignty we ended up with, for example, the national health service in the u. k. the and a chest was completely wiped out from a ransomware attack. if you were coming in to a clinic, because you had a test or you had an operation, they can't find your records. they had to go back to pen and paper a. he came on the test bed for medical and then later recreational marijuana. and it started with something so innocent, i was wanting to socialize. everybody does it? so i cannot. and then it just keeps going and going and going. i'm just going to do it once. yeah. and minutes. oh, i'm just going to try this website. never do it again because the one wife, 11 and i read on inside. okay. and you surround yourself with people who are encouraging you to do it and not to stop. it felt like my life was over. jammed office is all balcony and died.

she knew he just couldn't stop i with the annual cultural and commercial phenomenon to celebrate the birth of the center figure of christianity is upon us. even though a christians still try and maintain the religious elements of christmas with reminders of the nativity. over time, many of the traditions and practices have become so secular, the most notorious elements have little to no reference to the reason for the holiday. and while christians have allowed the holiday to become more non religious throughout history.